San Francisco system font replacement for Yosemite(github.com)
github.com
San Francisco system font replacement for Yosemite
https://github.com/wellsriley/YosemiteSanFranciscoFont
58 comments
The trend of using ultrathin fonts everywhere will be short-lived and date interfaces quickly. It's a trend inspired totally by the mere fact that high dpi displays can render them without pixelated artifacts, and not because they make sense for design or readability on a fundamental level.
Thin weight type has uses in good design, but the way it's being applied ad nauseum today is a gimmick.
Thin weight type has uses in good design, but the way it's being applied ad nauseum today is a gimmick.
Modern fonts have been frequently thin before the invention of retina screens.
The overuse of thin fonts might look dated in the future, but I don't agree that this trend is totally inspired by retina screens. If anything, I think Serif fonts have seen the greatest resurgence on web due to Retina screens. High DPI screens will impact our perception of all fonts, just as sans serif grew in popularity on lower dpi screens causing their perception to be more modern and technological.
In general typography as a whole has become much more interesting on retina screens. So yes, fonts look better now than ever before so don't cheat by using superthin because its trendy.
The overuse of thin fonts might look dated in the future, but I don't agree that this trend is totally inspired by retina screens. If anything, I think Serif fonts have seen the greatest resurgence on web due to Retina screens. High DPI screens will impact our perception of all fonts, just as sans serif grew in popularity on lower dpi screens causing their perception to be more modern and technological.
In general typography as a whole has become much more interesting on retina screens. So yes, fonts look better now than ever before so don't cheat by using superthin because its trendy.
Sans-serif typefaces were historically perceived as more modern than their serif counterparts. The simplicity and lack of letterform "decorations" (which serifs are) suggests a character of precision and rejection of legacy and "old ways". This has been the case ever since Swiss designers started using Helvetica and related typefaces set in clear, grid-based designs with modern color choices. So the modern character of sans-serifs dates far before computers and computer displays.
The screenshots on github use the thin variant of San Francisco - the equivalent to the current Helvetica Neue would be regular San Francisco. I also suspect they use the "Display" instead of "Text" version, which makes the kerning look strange.
San Francisco seems to work best at (very) small sizes, where Helvetica breaks. It proves further that Apple thinks of each screen size as a distinct UI - clearly the biggest difference with Google's approach to UI. Off topic: the 2 screen sizes for Watch show they don't want accidental developers for this platform, only fully committed ones.
I do find Helvetica works better on my Mac screen than SF (I tested in Mail.app).
San Francisco seems to work best at (very) small sizes, where Helvetica breaks. It proves further that Apple thinks of each screen size as a distinct UI - clearly the biggest difference with Google's approach to UI. Off topic: the 2 screen sizes for Watch show they don't want accidental developers for this platform, only fully committed ones.
I do find Helvetica works better on my Mac screen than SF (I tested in Mail.app).
iOS hasn't used ultrathin Helvetica since its early betas, and I'm not aware of anywhere substantial in Yosemite that uses ultrathin. I believe mostly everything is regular Helvetica.
This reminds me of Computer Modern (the companion default font for TeX) and what is wrong with it. It's even a reasonable explanation of why it is that way - new technology.
Yosemite is clearly first version fully optimized for Retina, potentially at expense of non-retina users. Every time I unlock my MacBook Pro I think "wow, this is gorgeous" (I have another one at work not updated to Yosemite, so I see difference every day). Unlike controversial iOS 7 update, Yosemite clearly looks better than the predecessor.
But very time I open my Air, I think "oh god what have they done".
Why?
I open my MacBook and think "the menu font is badly aliased, yuck" whereas the Mac Pro at work on Mavericks is still a joy to read. And trying to work out where a file is within Xcode is still as simple as right-clicking on the titlebar of the window (like all windows within Mac OS) but on Yosemite, how the heck do I do that????? The titlebar has gone!
I open my MacBook and think "the menu font is badly aliased, yuck" whereas the Mac Pro at work on Mavericks is still a joy to read. And trying to work out where a file is within Xcode is still as simple as right-clicking on the titlebar of the window (like all windows within Mac OS) but on Yosemite, how the heck do I do that????? The titlebar has gone!
I'm on Yosemite with the latest XCode, and all I do is right click on the title bar, as you say, and it gives me the full path to the file ..
Where though? The jumpbar does the same thing (sometimes - it is buggy). But where on the titlebar do I click to get the "file proxy icon" shortcut?
On the window title/filename? Works for me ..
Do you have a screenshot? Because mine looks very similar to the URL below, where as you see there is no part of the titlebar that has the filename on it....
http://i.imgur.com/BrbI3Tt.png
http://i.imgur.com/BrbI3Tt.png
You've written why: the badly aliased fonts.
For Apple aficionados of a certain vintage, San Francisco will always be the 'ransom font' of the original Mac:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_%28typeface%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_%28typeface%29
I have to say I was kind of hoping someone had replaced the Helvetica Neue with the old bitmap San Francisco face.
IIRC they made a TrueType version of San Francisco, for all your retina display needs.
Perhaps the following would work. Otherwise it might be on some obscure printer disk. https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/58243/can-i-get-th...
Perhaps the following would work. Otherwise it might be on some obscure printer disk. https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/58243/can-i-get-th...
I expected this.
Typeface designer Tobias Frere-Jones' opinion about Helvetica in Yosemite: http://www.fastcodesign.com/3031432/why-apples-new-font-wont...
It echoes Erik Spiekermann's view as well: Helvetica wasn't designed for small sizes on screen.
http://spiekermann.com/en/helvetica-sucks/
It echoes Erik Spiekermann's view as well: Helvetica wasn't designed for small sizes on screen.
http://spiekermann.com/en/helvetica-sucks/
The FastCo blog article, the one what derides the uselessly thin font, is published in an unreadably thin set of fonts.
Isn't this against the license for the font? I thought that it was explicitly for the use of designing apple watch ui.
Uhhh yeah. This "project" is basically a binary blob of Apple's new San Francisco font and a script to hack it into OS X's font system. This is totally illegal in the United States.
I was actually saddened when I saw people starting with their patches forcing Lucida back in OS X 10.10.
Helvetica was one of the things that made the iPhone so great.
Helvetica is neutral, timeless and easy to read. It's the perfect user interface font, especially the UI-optimized version OS X 10.10 is using.
As always, people just hate change.
That said, San Fransisco is a cool font, it just looks horrible as a computer font: too much space, and it's almost like all the characters look the same. But for a small device like a watch it's perfect.
Helvetica was one of the things that made the iPhone so great.
Helvetica is neutral, timeless and easy to read. It's the perfect user interface font, especially the UI-optimized version OS X 10.10 is using.
As always, people just hate change.
That said, San Fransisco is a cool font, it just looks horrible as a computer font: too much space, and it's almost like all the characters look the same. But for a small device like a watch it's perfect.
"Helvetica is neutral, timeless and easy to read."
Not according to typographers. :)
http://gizmodo.com/designers-explain-why-apples-new-os-x-typ...
Not according to typographers. :)
http://gizmodo.com/designers-explain-why-apples-new-os-x-typ...
> it's almost like all the characters look the same.
Interesting you say that, but prefer Helvetica. Quote from Erik Spiekermann in the film Helvetica: "Because all the letters...it's the whole Swiss ideology; the guy who designed it tried to make all the letters look the same."
Interesting you say that, but prefer Helvetica. Quote from Erik Spiekermann in the film Helvetica: "Because all the letters...it's the whole Swiss ideology; the guy who designed it tried to make all the letters look the same."
Looks like a straight up knockoff of Google's Roboto font: https://twitter.com/jm_denis/status/534802341770186752
Only big difference I can see is the 'Q'.
Only big difference I can see is the 'Q'.
Only if Backbone is a knockoff of Ember.
A better comparison would be to say that they both fall into the same typographic category; they are both humanist sans families with a bit of geometric rigidity; both have been compared to the classic DIN type.
That overlay isn't particularly useful; it only shows that the two families have comparable metrics and tend to follow the letterform patterns common to the category. A better visualization would be a closeup overlay of some characteristic letters, or a pangram set in each.
A better comparison would be to say that they both fall into the same typographic category; they are both humanist sans families with a bit of geometric rigidity; both have been compared to the classic DIN type.
That overlay isn't particularly useful; it only shows that the two families have comparable metrics and tend to follow the letterform patterns common to the category. A better visualization would be a closeup overlay of some characteristic letters, or a pangram set in each.
At first glance, they look very similar. However, in use there's a big difference between the two.
San Francisco is squarer which makes its x-height seem higher. The minor variations in lettering make a massive difference when used in application.
100% not a knockoff of Roboto. They're really, really different.
San Francisco is squarer which makes its x-height seem higher. The minor variations in lettering make a massive difference when used in application.
100% not a knockoff of Roboto. They're really, really different.
Eventually, I think it's quite likely that Apple will adopt San Francisco across all its operating systems, but that will only happen after a lot more behind-the-scenes typographic tweaking. It may look good enough as a drop-in replacement right now, but everything from stroke widths and hinting for non-retina displays to kerning tables and metrics within the interface will get some attention before anything other than the watch ships with these fonts.
Does anyone know the licensing status of the TTFs?
Apple's TOS specifically states they should only be used for development of Watch apps.
Distributing it on Github & using it for non-development purposes (i.e. as a system font) is probably against the TOS, but not sure Apple will care enough to do anything about it.
Distributing it on Github & using it for non-development purposes (i.e. as a system font) is probably against the TOS, but not sure Apple will care enough to do anything about it.
I don't hate it, but I'd love to just have Lucida back.
I think you might be able to do that with this: https://github.com/schreiberstein/lucidagrandeyosemite
Thanks, mate! Made my day!
In chrome 38 it messes up tabs text (they are set too low)
Noticing a few issues like so:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cl4to142icjw2ay/Screenshot%202014-...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cl4to142icjw2ay/Screenshot%202014-...
Chrome, right? Not sure what to do about that. I think Chrome is doing some weird baseline alignment stuff that breaks with the custom font.
The issue is open on Github: https://github.com/wellsriley/YosemiteSanFranciscoFont/issue...
The issue is open on Github: https://github.com/wellsriley/YosemiteSanFranciscoFont/issue...
Does anyone here have a "low res" (like 1440x900) MacBook? I do - it's from 2012 and was the last to have a CD drive so that I could write CDs for bandmates, plus it has a dedicated Ethernet port instead of a mass of external adapters (useful for AVB testing).
Anyway, since Yosemite the font for the menu bar has been a bit "bitty" and not smooth which contrasts sharply with the rest of the shininess seen everywhere - does this resolve this? I thought I'd ask before taking the plunge.
Anyway, since Yosemite the font for the menu bar has been a bit "bitty" and not smooth which contrasts sharply with the rest of the shininess seen everywhere - does this resolve this? I thought I'd ask before taking the plunge.
2010 model (1280x800) here and the menu bar / general font looks fine for me.
Here's the bar for me: http://i.imgur.com/oKnD674.png
Here's the bar for me: http://i.imgur.com/oKnD674.png
I just installed it on my Air, and it seems a lot smoother than Helvetica ever was. YMMV though
The font looks really fresh but it only has Latin glyphs, hopefully they will add Cyrillic and Asian range this winter.
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Am I the only one that thinks Segoe fonts from MS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segoe) would look much better than this for the original use (Apple Watch)?
I don't know what some designers today have with these ultra thin fonts. One can use thin font variants but only together with big font-sizes.
Form follows function => Font Function = legibility => don't use too thin fonts in smaller sizes.
Form follows function => Font Function = legibility => don't use too thin fonts in smaller sizes.
> You must be a registered Apple Developer to use these fonts. Do not download if you don't have a paid Apple Developer Program account.
I presume that this is against github's TOS.
I presume that this is against github's TOS.
Good god, I've installed it and what a mistake! The weight of the font seems to be very variable and the spacing between letters i s m a s s i v e.
Uninstall sadly :-(
Uninstall sadly :-(
Almost nice, but the digit glyphs are destroyed: they're not equally wide any more. Sorry, but can't use a font like that.
This looks really good. Sleek and friendly at the same time.
I just wish there was a way to bring the old dock back, then I might upgrade.
I just wish there was a way to bring the old dock back, then I might upgrade.
Dark mode makes the dock non-ugly, at least. It's not the same as before, but it's inoffensive, especially with Reduce transparency / Increase contrast.
After looking over the Yosemite change logs, as a non-iPhone user, it looks like a new font was all I had to look forward to. Every other update seems to concern sharing content between the desktop and iOS devices.
And now I'm finding out this new font- my only real reason for a 5GB update- is so unpopular that a hack to replace it is front page on HN.
And now I'm finding out this new font- my only real reason for a 5GB update- is so unpopular that a hack to replace it is front page on HN.
There is a lot more to Yosemite than just a font change.
1. Calendar/Contacts are cleaned up further from what they used to be.
2. The little green button no longer leaves you wondering what it does, it simply full screens now on a single monitor
3. There seems to be better consistency across many different applications when it comes to look and feel, and all of the partial see-through/blurriness actually feels pretty nice and gives interfaces a little more depth.
4. Improved Safari with a new JIT JavaScript engine that makes the web definitely feel faster
5. iCloud Drive integration, which is nice if you have multiple Macs
6. Spotlight has been massively improved, and is close to replacing Quicksilver for me.
The Apple Watch SDK was released today, and people are falling in love with the new font that was released, this hack simply replaces Helvetica Neue with that new font, there is no requirement for you to do so, and I personally won't be replacing my existing font with the one linked here.
1. Calendar/Contacts are cleaned up further from what they used to be.
2. The little green button no longer leaves you wondering what it does, it simply full screens now on a single monitor
3. There seems to be better consistency across many different applications when it comes to look and feel, and all of the partial see-through/blurriness actually feels pretty nice and gives interfaces a little more depth.
4. Improved Safari with a new JIT JavaScript engine that makes the web definitely feel faster
5. iCloud Drive integration, which is nice if you have multiple Macs
6. Spotlight has been massively improved, and is close to replacing Quicksilver for me.
The Apple Watch SDK was released today, and people are falling in love with the new font that was released, this hack simply replaces Helvetica Neue with that new font, there is no requirement for you to do so, and I personally won't be replacing my existing font with the one linked here.
Issue 2 you mention is an issue for me. If I am in Safari or Xcode and click that green blob, I get a full screen window. Now, what if I want to use Calculator to calculate something related to the webpage or code I am viewing? I use cmd-space to open Spotlight and type "calculator" and press Enter. Now, I get a calculator but on an entirely different desktop because fullscreen apps and non-fullscreen apps cannot share the same desktop space. It's STUPID.
I know you can hold down alt or whatever to make it behave like it used to, but I wish they'd put an option in to make it behave like it used to as the DEFAULT.
I know you can hold down alt or whatever to make it behave like it used to, but I wish they'd put an option in to make it behave like it used to as the DEFAULT.
> Now, what if I want to use Calculator to calculate something related to the webpage or code I am viewing
Just type your equation straight into Spotlight and it'll give you the result on-the-fly. Also works for unit and currency conversions.
Just type your equation straight into Spotlight and it'll give you the result on-the-fly. Also works for unit and currency conversions.
Ah good plan. My main complaint is the breaking of "normal" window functionality though, not specifically access to calculator - that was an example.
But great idea nonetheless!
But great idea nonetheless!
So, Apple dedicate a cohort of designers to revitalize UI and what people do in return? They ruin all this by replacing system font with one from a goddamn 40mm watch.
Disgraceful.
As much as I don't like Yosemite (they really broke Spotlight), its UI is much better than that of previous versions.
Disgraceful.
As much as I don't like Yosemite (they really broke Spotlight), its UI is much better than that of previous versions.
Even though I like Helvetica Neue, I really dig the new San Francisco font, it is a pretty nice alternative that seems to work pretty well for those who are using a non-Retina Display. If you want to bring back Lucida Grande, this Github repository has a handy script that will do that for you (some work colleagues of mine, designers mainly did it to bring back the old font): https://github.com/schreiberstein/lucidagrandeyosemite