Aboard Amtrak(spnzr.com)
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Aboard Amtrak
http://spnzr.com/aboard-amtrak
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I take the train between NYC, Boston and Providence very frequently (dozens to hundreds of times a year), and to DC occasionally (MBTA between Providence and Boston, usually). When I worked in NYC, I could leave Providence on an early train and know I'd make it to Midtown in time for work. Boston and NYC (and DC) both have good public transit, so I can hop on a bus or a train on either end to get around the city. The northeast corridor has decent trains, at least compared to the rest of the country from what I can gather.
tl;dr I live in the Northeast without owning a car and it's OK
Our shitty rail infrastructure might have to do with the interests of the automotive industry [1]
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspi...
tl;dr I live in the Northeast without owning a car and it's OK
Our shitty rail infrastructure might have to do with the interests of the automotive industry [1]
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspi...
For the past 2 years I've rode Acela weekly between NY Penn and Washington Union Station and it's a breeze...show up 10 minutes before the train leaves no problem. Definitely beats flying or driving if you're going to/coming from within either city...at least until they add airport-style TSA.
Amtrak is slowly clawing back on their advantages (such as the new policy of forfeiting fares for no-shows), but are heads and shoulders above airlines in terms of comfort, free-wifi, etc.
Finally, it's almost always on-time or early, which compared to flying between DC and NYC would be insane to think of (Northeast Regional Trains are less so).
Last rant about flying -- it's funny to think that you probably spend less time in the air flying 250mi from DC to NYC than you do going 15mi in your cab after you land.
Amtrak is slowly clawing back on their advantages (such as the new policy of forfeiting fares for no-shows), but are heads and shoulders above airlines in terms of comfort, free-wifi, etc.
Finally, it's almost always on-time or early, which compared to flying between DC and NYC would be insane to think of (Northeast Regional Trains are less so).
Last rant about flying -- it's funny to think that you probably spend less time in the air flying 250mi from DC to NYC than you do going 15mi in your cab after you land.
Yes and no.
Years ago I commuted between Washington and Baltimore. It was mostly OK, but one hot summer all trains were run at lower speeds because of track expansion. The MARC commuter trains were lowest priority and I got home late quite a few evenings.
And there is not a lot of flex if things go wrong. A fellow I know got to Washington something like five hours late once after somebody stepped in front of the Acela in Delaware.
Years ago I commuted between Washington and Baltimore. It was mostly OK, but one hot summer all trains were run at lower speeds because of track expansion. The MARC commuter trains were lowest priority and I got home late quite a few evenings.
And there is not a lot of flex if things go wrong. A fellow I know got to Washington something like five hours late once after somebody stepped in front of the Acela in Delaware.
DC to NYC has horrible reliability outside of weekday commuting hours. Trains are very often seriously late. And this is despite the routes being quite expensive. Weekday Acela service is on time and nice, but the price is still ridiculous.
The train is more comfortable than driving I-95, but it's definitely not cheaper and only faster if your end points are right near the stations. I don't own a car and if I want to get up and down the east coast I check Enterprise car rental for specials. For a three day trip rental + tolls + gas + insurance is still often well over $100 cheaper than the train and doesn't take more time. This isn't even considering added costs like cab rides to and from the train station.
The train is more comfortable than driving I-95, but it's definitely not cheaper and only faster if your end points are right near the stations. I don't own a car and if I want to get up and down the east coast I check Enterprise car rental for specials. For a three day trip rental + tolls + gas + insurance is still often well over $100 cheaper than the train and doesn't take more time. This isn't even considering added costs like cab rides to and from the train station.
One thing for business travel is that you can almost always work on the train. For me, that means when I have to deal with some disaster or meeting, I don't lose a weekend with my kids.
That's a northeast centric viewpoint though... Outside of there, many/most businesses are no longer in urban centers, and getting to the office park in the burbs is a pain.
That's a northeast centric viewpoint though... Outside of there, many/most businesses are no longer in urban centers, and getting to the office park in the burbs is a pain.
"For a three day trip rental + tolls + gas + insurance is still often well over $100 cheaper than the train and doesn't take more time."
Sure it does. It takes all the time that you're spending paying attention to traffic.
On a train (especially one of the new ones with power outlets, wifi, etc.) you can make productive use of that time, read for pleasure, or even just catch up on your sleep.
The time spent on driving is simply burned up. Gone.
Sure it does. It takes all the time that you're spending paying attention to traffic.
On a train (especially one of the new ones with power outlets, wifi, etc.) you can make productive use of that time, read for pleasure, or even just catch up on your sleep.
The time spent on driving is simply burned up. Gone.
Sure the activities that you can do while driving are more limited than the train (can't sleep, no matter how much I want to :-)), but that doesn't mean they are nonexistent. You can read via audiobooks, or you can listen to music, or podcasts (I came to love my 50 minute commute a couple years ago when I realized each direction was almost the exact length of an episode of This American Life).
I also find talking on the phone is a great way to pass the time during a commute—I have many friends and family members where I find quite often that we're talking on the phone because one of us is driving.
I also find talking on the phone is a great way to pass the time during a commute—I have many friends and family members where I find quite often that we're talking on the phone because one of us is driving.
"I also find talking on the phone is a great way to pass the time during a commute"
That's as dangerous as driving while (slightly) drunk, and "hands-free" devices don't make much difference, if any.
http://www.distraction.gov/download/research-pdf/comparison-...
I don't know of any studies with respect to listening to audiobooks while driving, but I would be surprised if they weren't also distracting (probably directly proportional to the level of interest the driver has in the book).
Conversing with a person who is actually present in the car with you is also distracting, but in that situation you also gain some safety by virtue of having another pair of eyes watching for danger, so it's more of a wash.
That's as dangerous as driving while (slightly) drunk, and "hands-free" devices don't make much difference, if any.
http://www.distraction.gov/download/research-pdf/comparison-...
I don't know of any studies with respect to listening to audiobooks while driving, but I would be surprised if they weren't also distracting (probably directly proportional to the level of interest the driver has in the book).
Conversing with a person who is actually present in the car with you is also distracting, but in that situation you also gain some safety by virtue of having another pair of eyes watching for danger, so it's more of a wash.
> That's as dangerous as driving while (slightly) drunk, and "hands-free" devices don't make much difference, if any.
I don't care—I'm willing to take that risk. For me it's better because I'm a super aggressive driver when I'm focusing solely on the road. Talking to somebody (or listening to someone talk) distracts me just enough so that I'm not super competitive—I'm happy to slide over to the right and go the speed limit in the slow lane.
> Conversing with a person who is actually present in the car with you is also distracting, but in that situation you also gain some safety by virtue of having another pair of eyes watching for danger, so it's more of a wash.
I highly doubt that. The other person may add more eyes but they have no control. I can't think of a single situation where back seat driving has actually helped me avoid an accident.
I don't care—I'm willing to take that risk. For me it's better because I'm a super aggressive driver when I'm focusing solely on the road. Talking to somebody (or listening to someone talk) distracts me just enough so that I'm not super competitive—I'm happy to slide over to the right and go the speed limit in the slow lane.
> Conversing with a person who is actually present in the car with you is also distracting, but in that situation you also gain some safety by virtue of having another pair of eyes watching for danger, so it's more of a wash.
I highly doubt that. The other person may add more eyes but they have no control. I can't think of a single situation where back seat driving has actually helped me avoid an accident.
"I'm willing to take that risk"
You're not the only party involved here.
You're not the only party involved here.
"The time spent on driving is simply burned up. Gone."
Only if you choose not to enjoy the journey - just because you're not able to read or do other activity doesn't mean it's not to be appreciated.
That might be true if you're driving through a national park.
It's less true of the New Jersey Turnpike.
You can also, of course, enjoy the journey just as well on a train. Arguably more, since you can actually pay attention to the scenery rather than the guy riding your bumper or the one who changes lanes at random, for no apparent reason.
It's less true of the New Jersey Turnpike.
You can also, of course, enjoy the journey just as well on a train. Arguably more, since you can actually pay attention to the scenery rather than the guy riding your bumper or the one who changes lanes at random, for no apparent reason.
The train system in Europe is a dream. It's reliable enough that I've done insane train-plane-bus transfers through several countries that wouldn't be possible in the US(even if you did s/country/state.
I grew up in the Northeast too so I didn't get my license until after I graduated college.
There was this mini-fender bender in Florida that the other driver caused where the cop asked if it was revoked because of too many points because he couldn't quite understand a middle class person using primarily public transit.
I grew up in the Northeast too so I didn't get my license until after I graduated college.
There was this mini-fender bender in Florida that the other driver caused where the cop asked if it was revoked because of too many points because he couldn't quite understand a middle class person using primarily public transit.
I've reached the conclusion that the East Coast... "commuter" corridors are simply a different matter, although from what I read they have problems, too.
I live at a cross country termination point, and I have had friends and family travel here by Amtrak. They are always, invariably, many hours late.
For their return trips, the departing trains generally leave from this originating station on time. They simply have no chance to make it down the tracks in a fashion that comes anywhere close to maintaining their schedule.
As offensive as anything, is the simple unreality of the schedules and their continued persistence of said schedules, year after year.
If they were more truthful, at least the unsuspecting one-time or occasional traveller could plan accordingly.
I live at a cross country termination point, and I have had friends and family travel here by Amtrak. They are always, invariably, many hours late.
For their return trips, the departing trains generally leave from this originating station on time. They simply have no chance to make it down the tracks in a fashion that comes anywhere close to maintaining their schedule.
As offensive as anything, is the simple unreality of the schedules and their continued persistence of said schedules, year after year.
If they were more truthful, at least the unsuspecting one-time or occasional traveller could plan accordingly.
> I've reached the conclusion that the East Coast... "commuter" corridors are simply a different matter
I reached the same conclusion and have had similar experiences to your friends and family. 5 years ago I took the Charlotte-Raleigh train a handful of times over the period of a year or two. Only once was it on time when arriving at my destination, and only once did it depart from my departing station late (by an hour). The worst I experienced was about a 5 hour delay in-transit, putting the time at 2AM instead of 9PM.
I quickly dropped the train as a reliable mode of transportation.
I reached the same conclusion and have had similar experiences to your friends and family. 5 years ago I took the Charlotte-Raleigh train a handful of times over the period of a year or two. Only once was it on time when arriving at my destination, and only once did it depart from my departing station late (by an hour). The worst I experienced was about a 5 hour delay in-transit, putting the time at 2AM instead of 9PM.
I quickly dropped the train as a reliable mode of transportation.
You're spot on. The East Coast corridors are managed by a separate business unit than the Midwest routes. Differences in managent vision and population circumstances have led to the large gap in quality between the two services. Essentially one management unit sees train service as a 'public duty' and the other management unit sees train service as 'value creation', leading to a service in disrepair with little/no profits and a service with decent quality and sustainable profits, respectively.
I doubt a lot of people commute daily between NYC and BOS, but you're right, its worlds apart from "cross country" travel. The Northeast also has a high concentration of large cities
> Meanwhile, I have friends who work for companies who write the software that control train scheduling throughout the country. After what they've seen, they refuse to ride on trains, and from the stories they've told I don't blame them.
Can you tell us more about this?
Can you tell us more about this?
The stories are mostly the mundane sort of terrible, rather than of the outlandish and entertaining variety. You know, impossibly buggy software plagued by decades of half-rewrites and no documentation or tests, the sort of stuff that's typical for most big companies except that this particular big company is responsible for shepherding untold quantities of earth-scorching chemicals via an infrastructure so archaic that they often have no idea where the trains actually are unless the conductors call in personally and read out the signs of the towns they're passing through. Hair-raising close calls. Problems that we have the technology to affordably solve, but are merely too apathetic to. I'm enough of a non-expert that if I attempted to relay anything more specific then I'm afraid that I'd just be talking out of my ass.
I should note that my friends do not work for Amtrak specifically, or even necessarily have anything to do with Amtrak. However, I can tell you that there are definitely major companies involved, if you're looking for a particularly Fight-Clubby response.
I should note that my friends do not work for Amtrak specifically, or even necessarily have anything to do with Amtrak. However, I can tell you that there are definitely major companies involved, if you're looking for a particularly Fight-Clubby response.
Interesting (terrifying) synopsis. I might have to borrow that last bit, too: "he was a bit too fight-clubby for me".
Just ask the Amtrak people and they will give to a realistic expectation.
The issue for east-west trains is that the track usually owned by CSX or another freight railway, and the thousands of tanker cars heading for Albany, NY for transfer to barges to New Jersey oil refineries have priority over everything except the trains that bring in produce from the West Coast.
I frequently ride Northeast corridor trains Amtrak owns 95% of those tracks. The trains to NYC usually run +/- 10 minutes of schedule, depending on the number of people embarking at midpoint stations.
Of all of the transportation providers that I deal with, Amtrak is the lowest hassle and best experience. Consistent pricing, no security theatre, comfortable cars and friendly staff most of the time.
The issue for east-west trains is that the track usually owned by CSX or another freight railway, and the thousands of tanker cars heading for Albany, NY for transfer to barges to New Jersey oil refineries have priority over everything except the trains that bring in produce from the West Coast.
I frequently ride Northeast corridor trains Amtrak owns 95% of those tracks. The trains to NYC usually run +/- 10 minutes of schedule, depending on the number of people embarking at midpoint stations.
Of all of the transportation providers that I deal with, Amtrak is the lowest hassle and best experience. Consistent pricing, no security theatre, comfortable cars and friendly staff most of the time.
CSX freight also causes delays between Chicago and New Orleans. When I was delayed, the conductor claimed that CSX was in violation of either state law (IL) or the rail-sharing contract they have. I forget which.
I've heard a conductor on the Lakeshore line out of Chicago vent similarly. It was something like, the contracts with CSX specify a dollar amount based on the on-time percentage Amtrak achieves, which Amtrak thought would guarantee priority, but it turns out that CSX would rather leave money on the table than give Amtrak the least bit of priority.
I honestly suspect CSX actively hates Amtrak at some level of management. You've got these passenger trains running fixed schedules 3-5 times a week and you can't run them on time? I can't believe that is an accident.
I honestly suspect CSX actively hates Amtrak at some level of management. You've got these passenger trains running fixed schedules 3-5 times a week and you can't run them on time? I can't believe that is an accident.
If Amtrak was not government-funded it would have gone out of business decades ago, and appropriately so. Intercity passenger rail no longer works in the USA. The automobile and air transport infrastructure works so much better for most people. It's time to give it up.
Edit: I'm not saying that commuter and regional rail can't work, it clearly does in the right circumstances.
Edit: I'm not saying that commuter and regional rail can't work, it clearly does in the right circumstances.
When Amtrak owns the tracks, it's a far better experience. I had similar (horrible) experiences riding the coast starlight between San Luis Obispo and Sacramento, but when I stuck to the commuter lines between Sacramento and the bay area, or LA and San Diego, it was always pleasant.
[deleted]
NY to Atlanta on a visit from the UK - about 1995:
* Train hits a tree on the line and grinds to a halt near Philadelphia. After about 30 minutes, the conductor announces that they have tried plugging some of the holes in an air tank (brakes, presumably) with wood, but it hasn't worked (!!!) so we'll have to wait for the following train and change on to it - we have broken down on a section of double track so the next train pulls alongside.
* Made it to Washington on a really packed train. We are due to have the dining car hitched up to us here, but it has an electrical fault so nope - no cooked food for the journey! Delays while faulty car unhitched.
* Drunk woman staggers through train shouting 'Goddamn it, has anyone got a Budweiser and a Cigarette!'
* (Still in Washington) Drunk woman and a man she met are hauled off the train by police for getting a bit too..er..'romantic' in a corridor!
* Outskirts of Atlanta - running slow for some reason - we hit a man walking to work down the track. Train stops and we can see police, fire and ambulance out the window. Man is hauled off to hospital by police and paramedics with nothing more than badly cut arm. Conductor announces that the man didn't hear us coming and has apologized for the delay he has caused.
* Made it to Atlanta station - receive phone call from the people picking us up...they have never used the train and don't know where the station is. We give directions.
* Train hits a tree on the line and grinds to a halt near Philadelphia. After about 30 minutes, the conductor announces that they have tried plugging some of the holes in an air tank (brakes, presumably) with wood, but it hasn't worked (!!!) so we'll have to wait for the following train and change on to it - we have broken down on a section of double track so the next train pulls alongside.
* Made it to Washington on a really packed train. We are due to have the dining car hitched up to us here, but it has an electrical fault so nope - no cooked food for the journey! Delays while faulty car unhitched.
* Drunk woman staggers through train shouting 'Goddamn it, has anyone got a Budweiser and a Cigarette!'
* (Still in Washington) Drunk woman and a man she met are hauled off the train by police for getting a bit too..er..'romantic' in a corridor!
* Outskirts of Atlanta - running slow for some reason - we hit a man walking to work down the track. Train stops and we can see police, fire and ambulance out the window. Man is hauled off to hospital by police and paramedics with nothing more than badly cut arm. Conductor announces that the man didn't hear us coming and has apologized for the delay he has caused.
* Made it to Atlanta station - receive phone call from the people picking us up...they have never used the train and don't know where the station is. We give directions.
I did a D.C. to Miami (and back) voyage many years ago that sounds vaguely similar. It was scheduled as a "mere" 24 hour trip and ended up taking over 30 (flying takes less than 3 and costs about the same and driving takes about 15 hours).
At one point our section of the train was disconnected and transferred to another train, except that train was 2 hours late. All told we waited 4 hours with no electricity or lights and nowhere to get off in the meanwhile.
We weren't in cabins and it was virtually impossible to sleep because of all the kids and drunk people opening and closing the doors to the cars all night.
We had a working dining car for approximately 1 meal going down and 2 meals coming up.
It was an excruciating enough that I've sworn off ever riding trains in the U.S. again. I did briefly consider taking the Accela recently on a D.C. to NYC trip (in theory it takes just about the same amount of time), but decided it's just easier to fly.
I've taken trains in Italy, France, England and South Korea and they're glorious experiences by comparison.
It's a shame too, because the U.S. is a beautiful country to see travelling by land...except at least on the routes I've been on which run mostly through hard neighborhoods or industrial wastelands.
At one point our section of the train was disconnected and transferred to another train, except that train was 2 hours late. All told we waited 4 hours with no electricity or lights and nowhere to get off in the meanwhile.
We weren't in cabins and it was virtually impossible to sleep because of all the kids and drunk people opening and closing the doors to the cars all night.
We had a working dining car for approximately 1 meal going down and 2 meals coming up.
It was an excruciating enough that I've sworn off ever riding trains in the U.S. again. I did briefly consider taking the Accela recently on a D.C. to NYC trip (in theory it takes just about the same amount of time), but decided it's just easier to fly.
I've taken trains in Italy, France, England and South Korea and they're glorious experiences by comparison.
It's a shame too, because the U.S. is a beautiful country to see travelling by land...except at least on the routes I've been on which run mostly through hard neighborhoods or industrial wastelands.
If you get a chance to visit the US again on the west coast, take the Coast Starlight, especially if you can take it northbound out of Los Angeles. It's one of Amtrak's long-haul routes, so, especially going southbound, plan in a few hours of delay in getting to your destination, but it's one of the most beautiful trips you can make. You'll see the ocean, wind through the mountains, see farmland, see deltas, see a lot of the country for what it really is.
One of the things to keep in mind about rail in the US is that, unfortunately, freight rules, and passenger rail is kept a distant second. So any scheduling problems, and the passenger trains get bumped back farther and farther, leading to the problems you described. If you're on one of the corridors that are handled mostly by passenger consortiums -- the Northeast Corridor, or Southern California -- you tend to get much better quality of service, but when you're out of those areas, it does get pretty craptastic, unfortunately. It's better than the dark days of the late seventies to early nineties, but it's still not nearly as good as it should be.
One of the things to keep in mind about rail in the US is that, unfortunately, freight rules, and passenger rail is kept a distant second. So any scheduling problems, and the passenger trains get bumped back farther and farther, leading to the problems you described. If you're on one of the corridors that are handled mostly by passenger consortiums -- the Northeast Corridor, or Southern California -- you tend to get much better quality of service, but when you're out of those areas, it does get pretty craptastic, unfortunately. It's better than the dark days of the late seventies to early nineties, but it's still not nearly as good as it should be.
If you're going from NW DC to Manhattan the Accela is usually faster door to door from DC, because you're going from Union Station to Penn, as opposed to going to National, going through security, and then arriving at the outskirts of NYC and taking a cab into the city.
It's also much more comfortable, and both the Accela and the regionals have a pretty good on-time percentage in on that route.
It's the only decent Amtrak route, but well recommended.
It's also much more comfortable, and both the Accela and the regionals have a pretty good on-time percentage in on that route.
It's the only decent Amtrak route, but well recommended.
I live in Philadelphia and use Amtrak to go up to New York on the weekends, where I used to live. The train ride is actually faster than the most-distant points on the NYC subway, so in a way I feel like I'm actually in a distant part of the same city.
Anyway...the Northeast Corridor is great. Especially in the middle of the night when its cheap, and theres no traffic on the rails.
Anyway...the Northeast Corridor is great. Especially in the middle of the night when its cheap, and theres no traffic on the rails.
Yeah, and from Penn you can jump on the Subway and get most places in the city without too much fuss (though it might be hard to get luggage through the turnstiles with you).
Let's just say that it's appealing enough to be on my options list for travel whenever I go the NYC.
Let's just say that it's appealing enough to be on my options list for travel whenever I go the NYC.
I love this bag for multi-mode travel.
http://www.ospreypacks.com/en/product/gear_hauling/porter_46...
It meets airline carry-on requirements, but can be easily be slipped on and off in urban environments as needed. It probably won't work so well if you need to wear a suit jacket, but is otherwise great.
http://www.ospreypacks.com/en/product/gear_hauling/porter_46...
It meets airline carry-on requirements, but can be easily be slipped on and off in urban environments as needed. It probably won't work so well if you need to wear a suit jacket, but is otherwise great.
I switched from a normal roller-bag to a weekender for that exact reason, it's a bit easier to carry around the city.
DC<->NYC/Boston is actually not bad (Acela or not). A lot more businessfolk so it's kept up more nicely. If you get there early enough you can get on the "Quiet" car. People are serious as shit about the "Quiet" car. Business class is pretty nice too (and surprisingly affordable).
Second it for the NEC (North East Corridor) from DC as far up as Boston. The train saved me on several occasions during this and past winters when snow storms snarled up the airways and airports. Although trains will also stop running at some point, it takes way more to do so.
In the case of travel between DC-NYC, it's even better since Union and Penn Stations are right in the hearts of the cities.
For example, flights were snarled for days and cancelled all day this last winter and I ended up getting a ride on empty, snow covered streets only plows were running on to the train that was still running with only slight delays.
In the case of travel between DC-NYC, it's even better since Union and Penn Stations are right in the hearts of the cities.
For example, flights were snarled for days and cancelled all day this last winter and I ended up getting a ride on empty, snow covered streets only plows were running on to the train that was still running with only slight delays.
Not just DC and NYC; in both Boston and Providence the Amtrak station is right in the middle of downtown.
Part-way through a trip from D.C. to Boston I ordered a sandwich and a can of ginger ale on the train. I did not specify a brand of ginger ale, but the clerk told me that they were out of Schweppes, and that he didn't want to bother charging me for Canada Dry, so he gave it to me for free.
I do this leg pretty frequently. Always on time, always efficient.
I know that they have better systems for trains in general, but all of those countries also have a much smaller area to cover by train than America. It's no surprise that the quality of trip with a train there would be much higher.
US actually has (arguably) the worlds best freight rail system in large part because the size makes long distance trucking less appealing. The real issue is cars and air traffic is heavily subsidized and freight has priority on most lines.
PS: For comparison the entire EU moved less than 1/10th a much freight miles (Mass * distance) as the US dispite having a similar sized economy.
PS: For comparison the entire EU moved less than 1/10th a much freight miles (Mass * distance) as the US dispite having a similar sized economy.
To be fair, the EU has more ports and a shorter distance from ports to the final destination, and ships are more fuel efficient than rail, so there's less need for long distance rail transport in the EU.
In researching that, I came across http://www.trforum.org/journal/downloads/2013v52n2_04_Freigh... , which argues that (in 2000) 83% of the differences in ton-miles can be explained by increased use of sea/non-surface mode transport, reduced distances, and a commodity mix, specifically coal transport. (Something like 40% of US rail tonnage-miles from coal, while it's about 15% of the EU's.)
In researching that, I came across http://www.trforum.org/journal/downloads/2013v52n2_04_Freigh... , which argues that (in 2000) 83% of the differences in ton-miles can be explained by increased use of sea/non-surface mode transport, reduced distances, and a commodity mix, specifically coal transport. (Something like 40% of US rail tonnage-miles from coal, while it's about 15% of the EU's.)
I'd be curious as to what the growth of rail freight is like in the US — I know it's been increasing year-after-year in the EU, ever since the rail freight market was opened up to competition.
Did a Chicago to Vegas trip on Amtrak. We were a day and a half late. Similar story. Never again.
> Made it to Atlanta station - receive phone call from the people picking us up...they have never used the train and don't know where the station is. We give directions.
I lived in Atlanta for 7 years and didn't even know it had a train station.
I lived in Atlanta for 7 years and didn't even know it had a train station.
The reason Atlanta exists is because it was a major rail hub back in the day.[1] Pretty amusing that people can forget it even has a station.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Atlanta#From_railroa...
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Atlanta#From_railroa...
I took my dad on a trip from Atlanta to Charlotte to see a college football bowl game. The train ride wasn't bad, but it definitely required a lot of flexibility to get to and from the stations in both cities. Taxis in the middle of the night in Charlotte, buses and walking in Atlanta. Neither city is really designed for rail to be integrated into their regional transport system, but I think both are trying to change that.
The station is "Terminus". Watch out for the lady grilling ribs.
I've done Amtrak twice. Central NY to Chicago was actually no problem as far as Amtrak goes, just a couple hours of delays each way.
Central NY to Columbus in November, nightmare. Maybe an hour in, notice a) the car is getting pretty cold b) the car is not very full. Turns out the door to the car is broken, either recently or was the whole time. There are no seats I can find on other cars. Amtrak guy says nothing he can do about it. Make the rest of the trip in the freezing cold, good thing I had warm clothes.
On the way back, get to the train station (in Cleveland, I think - no service to Columbus so they bus you - bus was 100% timely) to find out that the train isn't there and the train is not going to be there. That train is completely cancelled. Get to spend the night on a bench in the shut down, freezing Cleveland station until another train arrives going the same way ~12 hours later. Amtrak refuses to compensate me in any way for either issue. Should have just bussed it the whole way, if I was going to experiment with not flying.
End up a week after with the worst cold in my life, probably difficult to blame on Amtrak but I still do.
Central NY to Columbus in November, nightmare. Maybe an hour in, notice a) the car is getting pretty cold b) the car is not very full. Turns out the door to the car is broken, either recently or was the whole time. There are no seats I can find on other cars. Amtrak guy says nothing he can do about it. Make the rest of the trip in the freezing cold, good thing I had warm clothes.
On the way back, get to the train station (in Cleveland, I think - no service to Columbus so they bus you - bus was 100% timely) to find out that the train isn't there and the train is not going to be there. That train is completely cancelled. Get to spend the night on a bench in the shut down, freezing Cleveland station until another train arrives going the same way ~12 hours later. Amtrak refuses to compensate me in any way for either issue. Should have just bussed it the whole way, if I was going to experiment with not flying.
End up a week after with the worst cold in my life, probably difficult to blame on Amtrak but I still do.
A few years ago, I took Amtrak round trip from Tacoma, WA to Beaumont, TX and back. This trip involves taking the Coast Starlight to Los Angeles, and then the Sunset Limited from Los Angeles to Texas.
The train was supposed to leave Tacoma before lunch, and I had not ate breakfast that day. I was going to have lunch on the train. The train didn't get to Tacoma until well after lunch time, so by the time I got on, lunch was no longer being served.
Somewhere between Tacoma and California, and well before dinner time, we pulled onto a siding to let a freight train pass. As we started to move again to get back on the track, the engine derailed, because the rails on the siding ahead had pulled apart.
We sat there for a few hours while they sent out two engines, one to come up behind us to pull us back onto the main track, and one to hook up in front so we could resume the journey.
After we got going again, they said that because we were without power for much of the time we waited they had lost refrigeration in the kitchen and so out of food safety concerns dinner would be not served.
The snack car was still open, so we could at least get snacks. I was pretty pissed off that I had to pay for my snack. My ticket (which was something like $2000 each way...) included three meals a day. I would have expected that if they could not provide a meal that a passenger has already paid for, they could at least provide a complimentary snack from the snack car.
With the lateness leaving Tacoma, the delay form the engine derailment, and other delays to let freight trains pass, I was actually starting to worry that I might miss the connection for the Sunset Limited. That only ran three days a week, and so if I missed it, it would really throw my schedule into disarray. We were supposed to get to Los Angeles at something like 9PM, and we actually got in at around 5AM. I seriously considered just napping in the station instead of walking the two blocks to the hotel that had been reserved for me, since I wasn't going to have time for a good sleep anyway.
There were no more major incidents on the trip to Texas, just some annoyances. There was supposed to be a free newspaper everyday delivered to my room, but that only happened once. Some fittings and fixtures in my room were loose or missing.
The Beaumont train station was a bit of a surprise. It is just a big concrete slab in a field [1]. I found out that at one time there was a building there, but it was torn down after being damaged in Hurricane Rita. (They have since built a new station).
The return trip was largely uneventful. Still didn't get my newspapers. It was a bit scary waiting to leave Beaumont, since there was a lightning storm in the area. I really would have preferred waiting for the train inside a building instead of out in the open getting rained on and hoping the lighting didn't get too close. I should have had the cab wait with me until the train came, so I could have stayed in the cab where it was dry [2].
Everything was late on the return trip, which I gather is pretty much expected, but nothing that endangered the connection in Los Angeles.
I wonder how much more annoying this was back in the days before cell phones? With my cell phone, I was able to send text messages to the friend who was going to pick me up in Tacoma, updating him on our progress so he could do a good job of figuring out when he actually needed to be there.
[1] http://trainweb.org/usarail/beaumont03.jpg
[2] I was in Texas because I was a witness in a patent lawsuit. The lawyers were paying my expenses, and so it wouldn't have cost me anything to keep the cab there. It just didn't occur to me.
The train was supposed to leave Tacoma before lunch, and I had not ate breakfast that day. I was going to have lunch on the train. The train didn't get to Tacoma until well after lunch time, so by the time I got on, lunch was no longer being served.
Somewhere between Tacoma and California, and well before dinner time, we pulled onto a siding to let a freight train pass. As we started to move again to get back on the track, the engine derailed, because the rails on the siding ahead had pulled apart.
We sat there for a few hours while they sent out two engines, one to come up behind us to pull us back onto the main track, and one to hook up in front so we could resume the journey.
After we got going again, they said that because we were without power for much of the time we waited they had lost refrigeration in the kitchen and so out of food safety concerns dinner would be not served.
The snack car was still open, so we could at least get snacks. I was pretty pissed off that I had to pay for my snack. My ticket (which was something like $2000 each way...) included three meals a day. I would have expected that if they could not provide a meal that a passenger has already paid for, they could at least provide a complimentary snack from the snack car.
With the lateness leaving Tacoma, the delay form the engine derailment, and other delays to let freight trains pass, I was actually starting to worry that I might miss the connection for the Sunset Limited. That only ran three days a week, and so if I missed it, it would really throw my schedule into disarray. We were supposed to get to Los Angeles at something like 9PM, and we actually got in at around 5AM. I seriously considered just napping in the station instead of walking the two blocks to the hotel that had been reserved for me, since I wasn't going to have time for a good sleep anyway.
There were no more major incidents on the trip to Texas, just some annoyances. There was supposed to be a free newspaper everyday delivered to my room, but that only happened once. Some fittings and fixtures in my room were loose or missing.
The Beaumont train station was a bit of a surprise. It is just a big concrete slab in a field [1]. I found out that at one time there was a building there, but it was torn down after being damaged in Hurricane Rita. (They have since built a new station).
The return trip was largely uneventful. Still didn't get my newspapers. It was a bit scary waiting to leave Beaumont, since there was a lightning storm in the area. I really would have preferred waiting for the train inside a building instead of out in the open getting rained on and hoping the lighting didn't get too close. I should have had the cab wait with me until the train came, so I could have stayed in the cab where it was dry [2].
Everything was late on the return trip, which I gather is pretty much expected, but nothing that endangered the connection in Los Angeles.
I wonder how much more annoying this was back in the days before cell phones? With my cell phone, I was able to send text messages to the friend who was going to pick me up in Tacoma, updating him on our progress so he could do a good job of figuring out when he actually needed to be there.
[1] http://trainweb.org/usarail/beaumont03.jpg
[2] I was in Texas because I was a witness in a patent lawsuit. The lawyers were paying my expenses, and so it wouldn't have cost me anything to keep the cab there. It just didn't occur to me.
> I wonder how much more annoying this was back in the days before cell phones? With my cell phone, I was able to send text messages to the friend who was going to pick me up in Tacoma, updating him on our progress so he could do a good job of figuring out when he actually needed to be there.
In the days before cell phones, trains still stopped frequently enough, and for long enough, at stations with public phones that you could let people know, and, in addition, the frequence of late arrivals of trains (and the same is true of aircraft) was such that it was fairly common practice to call the destination station (airport) and inquire about the expected arrival time of an incoming train (flight) if you wanted to mitigate the risk of hanging around and waiting.
If anything, the age of near-ubiquitous instant communication in your pocket has made things like this more annoying, because its shifted people's expectation of control and knowledge.
In the days before cell phones, trains still stopped frequently enough, and for long enough, at stations with public phones that you could let people know, and, in addition, the frequence of late arrivals of trains (and the same is true of aircraft) was such that it was fairly common practice to call the destination station (airport) and inquire about the expected arrival time of an incoming train (flight) if you wanted to mitigate the risk of hanging around and waiting.
If anything, the age of near-ubiquitous instant communication in your pocket has made things like this more annoying, because its shifted people's expectation of control and knowledge.
Amazing writing, I couldn't put it down. Don't miss the Amtrak Tips page linked at the bottom.
For anyone fascinated by rail travel, I can recommend the train from Bulawayo to Victoria Falls (Zimbabwe). It's definitely like he writes, hard mode, but it's only for one day or night, and when I was there first class tickets cost $7 US.
Also worthwhile: South Korea (trains galore, hard mode only due to the writing system). Sri Lanka's Hill Country (the train goes about 10 kph and you will wish it would slow down--the views!). Oslo-Stockholm (easy but expensive mode).
And finally, http://www.seat61.com - OK, it's got ads now, just ignore them, this is a gem of Web 1.0.
For anyone fascinated by rail travel, I can recommend the train from Bulawayo to Victoria Falls (Zimbabwe). It's definitely like he writes, hard mode, but it's only for one day or night, and when I was there first class tickets cost $7 US.
Also worthwhile: South Korea (trains galore, hard mode only due to the writing system). Sri Lanka's Hill Country (the train goes about 10 kph and you will wish it would slow down--the views!). Oslo-Stockholm (easy but expensive mode).
And finally, http://www.seat61.com - OK, it's got ads now, just ignore them, this is a gem of Web 1.0.
If you're thinking of a European trip, do it right now - Deutsche Bahn are withdrawing many of the sleeper trains in December as they're unprofitable.
I went London-Tokyo by train and ferry. Chinese sleepers were probably the best - both luxurious and cheap, particularly in the northwest there is gorgeous desert and canyons out the window. But the train from Moscow to Uzbekistan was fascinating in its own way, red leather and steaming samovars, fresh-caught fish being sold on the platforms of these rural stations alongside enormous kebabs of mysterious meat. Carriage attendants knocking the snow off the steps with pokers at every stop. Looking out the window and seeing a solitary line of telegraph poles across the empty snowfield, the only human thing as far as the eye could see. A bunch of men lining up on one side of the corridor as we passed the steaming silos and metal towers at Baikonur, hoping to see a launch.
I went London-Tokyo by train and ferry. Chinese sleepers were probably the best - both luxurious and cheap, particularly in the northwest there is gorgeous desert and canyons out the window. But the train from Moscow to Uzbekistan was fascinating in its own way, red leather and steaming samovars, fresh-caught fish being sold on the platforms of these rural stations alongside enormous kebabs of mysterious meat. Carriage attendants knocking the snow off the steps with pokers at every stop. Looking out the window and seeing a solitary line of telegraph poles across the empty snowfield, the only human thing as far as the eye could see. A bunch of men lining up on one side of the corridor as we passed the steaming silos and metal towers at Baikonur, hoping to see a launch.
I'm curious, what is it that you like about the Oslo-Stockholm trip?
On a recent 'Guide to living in DC', an editorial noted how awkward it is to go to a beer garden. If you go to meet one other person, you can either try to sit right next to each other, or across from each other. Across is ideal, but then "you have to share elbow space with a stranger."
The dining and lounge cars in a train are about the only place left for city-slickers in American society where it's not a social faux pas to intentionally interact with a stranger. On elevators, in subways, on buses, even at many bars, you're supposed to mind your own business. But on the train, you have nowhere to go and nothing to do. Faced with the barren reality of the situation, people seem to finally lower their guard and just be humans, and do what humans are naturally apt to do: share an experience. It's so tragically sad that we've bred ourselves to have to be forced like cattle into a metal box hurtling across the countryside just to engage in scenarios and people foreign to us.
The dining and lounge cars in a train are about the only place left for city-slickers in American society where it's not a social faux pas to intentionally interact with a stranger. On elevators, in subways, on buses, even at many bars, you're supposed to mind your own business. But on the train, you have nowhere to go and nothing to do. Faced with the barren reality of the situation, people seem to finally lower their guard and just be humans, and do what humans are naturally apt to do: share an experience. It's so tragically sad that we've bred ourselves to have to be forced like cattle into a metal box hurtling across the countryside just to engage in scenarios and people foreign to us.
Train travel is by far the most pleasurable way to travel, in every aspect. The scenery is (usually) amazing and you meet SO many different types of people. I don't know what it is about trains that attract anarchists. I took a 2 week train trip around China a couple years back, long haul jawns, each leg ranging from 20-27 hours. We'd stop in a city for 1-2 nights and then keep moving on. It was amazing and one of the best things I have ever done in my life. And I met like 5 anarchists.
I love and hate Amtrak. It's great when it's working. I wish it was a little more affordable and that there were communal sleeping cars, so that the long haul routes would become more popular.
On a side note, sometimes I wonder if U.S. culture is compatible with an efficient and graceful long haul train system. This is from the top comment, "Drunk woman staggers through train shouting 'Goddamn it, has anyone got a Budweiser and a Cigarette!'" I don't know if, in general, we U.S. Americans are respectful enough to make train travel work.
I love and hate Amtrak. It's great when it's working. I wish it was a little more affordable and that there were communal sleeping cars, so that the long haul routes would become more popular.
On a side note, sometimes I wonder if U.S. culture is compatible with an efficient and graceful long haul train system. This is from the top comment, "Drunk woman staggers through train shouting 'Goddamn it, has anyone got a Budweiser and a Cigarette!'" I don't know if, in general, we U.S. Americans are respectful enough to make train travel work.
I think the challenges to American train travel are less cultural and more geographic. Train systems seem to work in small countries with dense populations, and in fact we see in the northeast that trains are effective and widely used. I live in Boston, and people use the subway in the city, commuter rail near the city, and Amtrak to get to places like New York. But flying just seems so much more practical around most parts of the US.
China's hardly small, but is pretty dense in the east.
Trans-continental travel is nowadays without question the purview of air travel (though I was surprised when I looked up the classes of air travel across the US — a flight from the EU to the north east of the US gets you so much more than a trans-continental flight, despite the lengths of the flights being near identical!). That said, a quite look at a population map it look like a fairly comprehensive network as far west as Chicago should be viable, extending down to Virginia on the coast. Otherwise, Houston–Austin–San Antonio seems doable (possibly with a spur off that from Austin to Dallas and Fort Worth), as well as most of California (and probably Phoenix from there).
That said, don't take this as carte blanche support for any proposals for HSR in those areas — I know at least the Californian proposal is pretty ridiculous.
There are other challenges, but ones that likely aren't insurmountable. Most notably, you almost certainly want for many travellers the destination to be the central business district, but in many cities this makes it hard to have large car rental places — necessary given most of these cities don't have good, comprehensive transport networks.
Trans-continental travel is nowadays without question the purview of air travel (though I was surprised when I looked up the classes of air travel across the US — a flight from the EU to the north east of the US gets you so much more than a trans-continental flight, despite the lengths of the flights being near identical!). That said, a quite look at a population map it look like a fairly comprehensive network as far west as Chicago should be viable, extending down to Virginia on the coast. Otherwise, Houston–Austin–San Antonio seems doable (possibly with a spur off that from Austin to Dallas and Fort Worth), as well as most of California (and probably Phoenix from there).
That said, don't take this as carte blanche support for any proposals for HSR in those areas — I know at least the Californian proposal is pretty ridiculous.
There are other challenges, but ones that likely aren't insurmountable. Most notably, you almost certainly want for many travellers the destination to be the central business district, but in many cities this makes it hard to have large car rental places — necessary given most of these cities don't have good, comprehensive transport networks.
> Two zero axles zero faults, said the computer.
There are infrared sensors along the tracks that look for overheated wheel bearings. They're called hot box detectors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defect_detector
These allowed the railroads to eliminate cabooses and their crews.
There are infrared sensors along the tracks that look for overheated wheel bearings. They're called hot box detectors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defect_detector
These allowed the railroads to eliminate cabooses and their crews.
That's interesting, why would you put it along the track and not on the train itself? In the 60's it made sense but today wouldn't it be cheap to put digital temperature sensors on the trains like cars have?
Probably cost. There are millions of rail cars, both here and in Canada (not sure if the railroads run trains in Mexico) that would need to be taken out of service and fitted with them. Plus, easier to test to see if the detectors are working - just run a work train past them with a resistance heater hanging off it to simulate a hot bearing.
And -- the sensors would have to communicate with the crew if there's an alarm, and they could be a half mile away (long trains are long) inside a tunnel. There aren't any data connections between cars (and wouldn't be reliable if there were), so the on-car detector would have to have a powerful radio. Added cost & complexity.
And -- the sensors would have to communicate with the crew if there's an alarm, and they could be a half mile away (long trains are long) inside a tunnel. There aren't any data connections between cars (and wouldn't be reliable if there were), so the on-car detector would have to have a powerful radio. Added cost & complexity.
Great writing, could almost be there on the train living it.
One day, if I find the motivation, I'll write up the experience of sleeping rough in the UK and hitching from town to town. 2 winters spent outside, 30 months in total.
A country is full of so many people, such incredible diversity, and yet some patterns as well... groups always seem to form of similar types. It's deeply fascinating stuff just to meet so many people and just talk.
One day, if I find the motivation, I'll write up the experience of sleeping rough in the UK and hitching from town to town. 2 winters spent outside, 30 months in total.
A country is full of so many people, such incredible diversity, and yet some patterns as well... groups always seem to form of similar types. It's deeply fascinating stuff just to meet so many people and just talk.
I would love to read that, you should definitely do it. Where in the UK did you travel?
Everywhere except Hull and Liverpool. Hundreds of towns and cities, I stayed one night, and then moved on. I found it safer to travel in the days than to wander the streets.
At nights I'd sleep in fields (outside small towns) or in building sites (site offices have a heater and kettle and were usually unlocked - perfect for winter).
During the deep of winter I did the most travelling... I'd try and hitch for most of the day as it would mean somewhere warm for those hours. Scotland to London and back was a regular whenever it snowed.
For money I did odd-jobs along the way, but mostly I would go to student unions (always potential to work for bands playing live - sell their merchandise when they were coming off-stage) and just meet people, have a drink, and that would lead to a sofa to crash on, a shower and cheese on toast in the morning.
It's a very long story, mostly blurred together with some parts more memorable than the others (the extreme lows and highs - hearing gun shots in Manchester, being mugged in Birmingham, falling in love in Glasgow, shivering through the first nights of snow, etc).
One also acquires an incredible awareness for a town, I could be dropped anywhere and know which way the town centre was (look for the lay of the land, the river and the basin), where the rail station was, where the bus stations are, the key routes in and out, and where McDonald's was likely to be (the only place to get a hot meal at 6am-7am). That is a wonderful skill which has proved useful almost everywhere around (the world except the USA - you guys just drop your cities anywhere, and damn the land).
At nights I'd sleep in fields (outside small towns) or in building sites (site offices have a heater and kettle and were usually unlocked - perfect for winter).
During the deep of winter I did the most travelling... I'd try and hitch for most of the day as it would mean somewhere warm for those hours. Scotland to London and back was a regular whenever it snowed.
For money I did odd-jobs along the way, but mostly I would go to student unions (always potential to work for bands playing live - sell their merchandise when they were coming off-stage) and just meet people, have a drink, and that would lead to a sofa to crash on, a shower and cheese on toast in the morning.
It's a very long story, mostly blurred together with some parts more memorable than the others (the extreme lows and highs - hearing gun shots in Manchester, being mugged in Birmingham, falling in love in Glasgow, shivering through the first nights of snow, etc).
One also acquires an incredible awareness for a town, I could be dropped anywhere and know which way the town centre was (look for the lay of the land, the river and the basin), where the rail station was, where the bus stations are, the key routes in and out, and where McDonald's was likely to be (the only place to get a hot meal at 6am-7am). That is a wonderful skill which has proved useful almost everywhere around (the world except the USA - you guys just drop your cities anywhere, and damn the land).
From what I can tell, our cities were shaped by pilgrims, fiefdoms, pioneers, immigrants, and waves of commerce (including rail). We didn't drop the cities anywhere - they sprang up, first in town-form, then counties and eventually cities. It's very hard to find a european-style city center in America. Perhaps if we were split into 30 countries and had a millenia or two of history there'd be more clearly defined and planned-out cities, but we're kind of an ad-hoc do-it-yourself baby nation. That said, if you're near the water there's bound to be a town nearby.
The difference is largely in that Americans had access to more advanced technologies at the time they founded their townships. You can see us moving away from "European-style" city centers as you shift from East to West.
Yeah, you need to write up this whole trip. And tell me if you ever do
If you're interested in getting a taste of Amtrak while coding, I've been working with Amtrak on a hackathon from NYC to SF. Join us!
http://Amhacks.com
http://Amhacks.com
Awesome idea. But it looks like the hackathon in behind schedule. When do you think it'll leave the station?
Right now we're shooting for spring / summer. It is turning out to be a really great event, we're all excited!
I will be posting updates about it too if you're curious: http://twitter.com/reustle
I will be posting updates about it too if you're curious: http://twitter.com/reustle
That sounds amazing. Any idea how much it would cost to attend, though?
Still working on sponsorships and schedules, but I should have a better idea in a few weeks. Likely under $400.
This sounds really cool, and I live at one of the endpoints so all the better.
Any thoughts on the basic logistics of it - sleeper cars, showers, food, preventing people from stinking up the whole joint, etc?
Any thoughts on the basic logistics of it - sleeper cars, showers, food, preventing people from stinking up the whole joint, etc?
All of the above, and more.
Awesome writing. Reminded me of Kerouac, with some good historical tidbits and photography dispersed throughout. Its a shame and predictable that the top rated comments basically say "Amtrak sux" obviously the commentators failed to actually read the piece.
As someone that did San Diego to San Francisco to Salt Lake to Chicago to New York City to Rochester to Washington DC and back again by train: it was a crazy, interesting, fun, and tiring experience well worth it.
If you ever have the opportunity, take the train on a cross country trip. If you don't upgrade to a sleeper car, make sure to stop every second day if your trip is longer than 5 days. You will want to shower, sleep, and enjoy some quiet before getting back on the train.
This article definitely captures the feeling.
If you ever have the opportunity, take the train on a cross country trip. If you don't upgrade to a sleeper car, make sure to stop every second day if your trip is longer than 5 days. You will want to shower, sleep, and enjoy some quiet before getting back on the train.
This article definitely captures the feeling.
Was this a product of Amtrak hiring writers? http://www.theguardian.com/books/booksblog/2014/feb/27/amtra...
> and the 45 day Amtrak pass was cheaper than rent.
I'd assume not.
I'd assume not.
It's competitive. The price is $879, for those who missed it deep in the article. There are many places where 45 days worth of rent at that price will get you worse environs than a train.
I really liked this article. I enjoyed the writing style and the subject is one that interests me a lot, as I've also managed to have a lot of fun traveling-and-working by Amtrak. But I guess I'm going to violate the entire moral of the story with the rest of my post. Because I kind of stopped and had to ask myself what the author was thinking with this line:
>> I didn't know how to reconcile his witless alcoholism with his tremendous sacrifice.
You must not know many soldiers. Or just people in general.
I know there are a lot of different people out there and a lot of different experiences, so I really don't need anyone replying with "my buddy did it for such-and-such and has never touched a drop of alcohol in his life". Not interested. But judging from literally every ex-soldier I've met, "witless alcoholism" is what defines and unifies military service. To some extent, that even includes my own parents, who I suspect didn't drink very much when I was a kid specifically because of their experiences in the military. And really, in a lot of respects that's just being young, sowing wild oats and whatnot. What is the difference between kids in the military and kids in college (and do not forget for a second that soldiering is mostly done by adults-in-name-only)? I suspect not much, other than a generally higher degree of physical fitness in the military.
Also judging from these ex-soldiers, joining the military is as much about "serving one's country" and "making a sacrifice" as going to college is about "learning", i.e. that's not really actually why most people do it and it only happens out of circumstance. I can't tell if any of the soldiers I've met had given any serious thought to the concept of injury or death before they volunteered. Because really, how much serious thought on such concepts is an 18-year-old even capable of? As a society, we literally force some of the most life-changing decisions on the people who are almost universally unprepared to evaluate their full set of options correctly. Most people seem to do it (both college and the military) because they're expected to, because they aren't aware of other options, and/or because they think it will be a good time. Or, at least in peacetime, I'd say that was the case.
Today, I don't know. Being 18 year olds, it's probably the same motivations. But we've been in active shooty-stabby-bomby action for thirteen years straight (I also really don't need any pedantic replies about official declarations of war). Living in DC, it's kind of hard to not notice the 11th of September pass by, thus my wife and I tend to avoid being in town on that day. And it's kind of hard to remember what day it is just about anywhere else. It's been a long time. Vietnam was slightly longer and I doubt anyone thinks we'll be done soon. Is this what Pearl Harbor felt like in 1953? Hell, we'd already been into and out of Korea by that time.
My point here is, if you're in the military now, you're volunteering for war. If you're an injured soldier, I'm sorry you got hurt. You didn't deserve it, because nobody deserves war and mayhem. But you volunteered for it. We need to stop saying "support the troops". We need to start saying "prevent kids from joining unjust war".
>> I didn't know how to reconcile his witless alcoholism with his tremendous sacrifice.
You must not know many soldiers. Or just people in general.
I know there are a lot of different people out there and a lot of different experiences, so I really don't need anyone replying with "my buddy did it for such-and-such and has never touched a drop of alcohol in his life". Not interested. But judging from literally every ex-soldier I've met, "witless alcoholism" is what defines and unifies military service. To some extent, that even includes my own parents, who I suspect didn't drink very much when I was a kid specifically because of their experiences in the military. And really, in a lot of respects that's just being young, sowing wild oats and whatnot. What is the difference between kids in the military and kids in college (and do not forget for a second that soldiering is mostly done by adults-in-name-only)? I suspect not much, other than a generally higher degree of physical fitness in the military.
Also judging from these ex-soldiers, joining the military is as much about "serving one's country" and "making a sacrifice" as going to college is about "learning", i.e. that's not really actually why most people do it and it only happens out of circumstance. I can't tell if any of the soldiers I've met had given any serious thought to the concept of injury or death before they volunteered. Because really, how much serious thought on such concepts is an 18-year-old even capable of? As a society, we literally force some of the most life-changing decisions on the people who are almost universally unprepared to evaluate their full set of options correctly. Most people seem to do it (both college and the military) because they're expected to, because they aren't aware of other options, and/or because they think it will be a good time. Or, at least in peacetime, I'd say that was the case.
Today, I don't know. Being 18 year olds, it's probably the same motivations. But we've been in active shooty-stabby-bomby action for thirteen years straight (I also really don't need any pedantic replies about official declarations of war). Living in DC, it's kind of hard to not notice the 11th of September pass by, thus my wife and I tend to avoid being in town on that day. And it's kind of hard to remember what day it is just about anywhere else. It's been a long time. Vietnam was slightly longer and I doubt anyone thinks we'll be done soon. Is this what Pearl Harbor felt like in 1953? Hell, we'd already been into and out of Korea by that time.
My point here is, if you're in the military now, you're volunteering for war. If you're an injured soldier, I'm sorry you got hurt. You didn't deserve it, because nobody deserves war and mayhem. But you volunteered for it. We need to stop saying "support the troops". We need to start saying "prevent kids from joining unjust war".
> My point here is, if you're in the military now, you're volunteering for war. If you're an injured soldier, I'm sorry you got hurt. You didn't deserve it, because nobody deserves war and mayhem. But you volunteered for it. We need to stop saying "support the troops". We need to start saying "prevent kids from joining unjust war".
A thousand times yes! About a year ago I was flying in the US for a conference and I noticed a soldier in uniform getting bumped to business class. Apparently this is standard AA policy.
This led me to ask some questions about the military to some coworkers which turned into some sort of a fight. My position is exactly the same as yours: American society forces its most vulnerable to join unjust wars and then rather than provide them with welfare, social and medical services relies on this kind of obscene corporate brandwashing and cheap respect and support from the public.
I refuse to support the troops, we have to stop kids from being duped into joining the military altogether. But apparently this is a rather unpopular position, especially with those who have family members in the military.
A thousand times yes! About a year ago I was flying in the US for a conference and I noticed a soldier in uniform getting bumped to business class. Apparently this is standard AA policy.
This led me to ask some questions about the military to some coworkers which turned into some sort of a fight. My position is exactly the same as yours: American society forces its most vulnerable to join unjust wars and then rather than provide them with welfare, social and medical services relies on this kind of obscene corporate brandwashing and cheap respect and support from the public.
I refuse to support the troops, we have to stop kids from being duped into joining the military altogether. But apparently this is a rather unpopular position, especially with those who have family members in the military.
> But apparently this is a rather unpopular position, especially with those who have family members in the military.
See: Sunk Cost Fallacy.
People who have emotional investments in the military are unlikely to roll that back just on your say-so.
See: Sunk Cost Fallacy.
People who have emotional investments in the military are unlikely to roll that back just on your say-so.
[deleted]
> My point here is, if you're in the military now, you're volunteering for war. If you're an injured soldier, I'm sorry you got hurt. You didn't deserve it, because nobody deserves war and mayhem. But you volunteered for it. We need to stop saying "support the troops". We need to start saying "prevent kids from joining unjust war".
I'm currently serving, and I agree. It gets tiring having complete strangers walk up to me, while I'm in uniform, and saying things like "thank you, for all that you do.", as if I should bask in the glory of their appreciation. Perhaps they really are thankful, but the whole encounter is always awkward. At first I wasn't sure how to respond, but I've settled on saying "you're welcome", even though it sounds arrogant to me. Then you have individuals and corporations who profit on this whole notion that we should donate to "support the troops" at every opportunity we get. Many of us don't deserve support. Some of us may make sacrifices at times, but that doesn't mean we deserve everyone's affection or undue favoritism. We have the same issues as any one else. I'd much rather people pressure their congressmen and women to provide the benefits our service members were guaranteed. For those that feel compelled to give, I'd urge them to do so locally by contacting their local VFW post.
Now, I don't want to seem ungrateful. There have been instances where I felt I experienced actual appreciation. Once I was out enjoying sushi with some family and friends and a stranger paid the bill. They left without us ever having known who they were. I'm grateful for what they did.
I'm currently serving, and I agree. It gets tiring having complete strangers walk up to me, while I'm in uniform, and saying things like "thank you, for all that you do.", as if I should bask in the glory of their appreciation. Perhaps they really are thankful, but the whole encounter is always awkward. At first I wasn't sure how to respond, but I've settled on saying "you're welcome", even though it sounds arrogant to me. Then you have individuals and corporations who profit on this whole notion that we should donate to "support the troops" at every opportunity we get. Many of us don't deserve support. Some of us may make sacrifices at times, but that doesn't mean we deserve everyone's affection or undue favoritism. We have the same issues as any one else. I'd much rather people pressure their congressmen and women to provide the benefits our service members were guaranteed. For those that feel compelled to give, I'd urge them to do so locally by contacting their local VFW post.
Now, I don't want to seem ungrateful. There have been instances where I felt I experienced actual appreciation. Once I was out enjoying sushi with some family and friends and a stranger paid the bill. They left without us ever having known who they were. I'm grateful for what they did.
My wife volunteered at a live-in home for emotionally disturbed boys in Pasadena (i.e., suburban context). They treated the kids decently, but there is only so much low paid help can do to remedy not having parents who care, or, having evil or disturbed parents.
Most of them were decent kids, but not educated and with impulse control problems. After years in the system, they were so far off the path that they were just being babysat until they turned 18, at which point they were set loose. When you've lived in an institution like that for so long, where do you go?
Right, the military. That was one of the main destinations for these kids. My wife began to see the whole juvenile system as a pipeline for future grunts. There was a reason why the place was underfunded, and no serious plan was in place to place these kids in society at 18. Society seemed ok with having an assured supply of young men for the war machine.
Most of them were decent kids, but not educated and with impulse control problems. After years in the system, they were so far off the path that they were just being babysat until they turned 18, at which point they were set loose. When you've lived in an institution like that for so long, where do you go?
Right, the military. That was one of the main destinations for these kids. My wife began to see the whole juvenile system as a pipeline for future grunts. There was a reason why the place was underfunded, and no serious plan was in place to place these kids in society at 18. Society seemed ok with having an assured supply of young men for the war machine.
"As a society, we literally force some of the most life-changing decisions on the people who are almost universally unprepared to evaluate their full set of options correctly."
Well said, but maybe part of the solution here is to stop treating teenagers the same way we treat infants and acknowledge they have an active and capable mind which we too often fail to encourage.
Well said, but maybe part of the solution here is to stop treating teenagers the same way we treat infants and acknowledge they have an active and capable mind which we too often fail to encourage.
I think you could make your point much more clearly by starting with "support our troops". And then start with some uncontroversial points about the disgraceful way the veterans are supported, then make some jabs about the military-industrial complex, dying for oil, et cetera as you feel them out and find out what their sore spots are as you move the conversation towards more controversial topics. I bet you could have a lot of people agreeing with you that the system should be dismantled using this approach. The point is that you actually do support the troops, the troops as individuals, but not as a system.
As for what you're advocating for, how about raising the minimum enlistment age to 21? I think that would have a huge impact, and I bet you would be able to get support from both sides for that one, with arguments like "today's military requires not cannon fodder but highly skilled individuals capable of making sound moral judgements quickly".
As for what you're advocating for, how about raising the minimum enlistment age to 21? I think that would have a huge impact, and I bet you would be able to get support from both sides for that one, with arguments like "today's military requires not cannon fodder but highly skilled individuals capable of making sound moral judgements quickly".
We need to start saying "Dude, not everyone has the all-encompassing power to know everything that you know and it's wrong to judge people, their opinions or their life experiences."
You haven't walked a mile in his moccasins.
You haven't walked a mile in his moccasins.
Amtrak is great when you aren't on a schedule. I love the railroad travel experience. Waiting patiently for that high speed rail between St. Louis and Chicago...
I will admit, I did check the prices for a 45-day pass after reading this. Sometimes I wish I could go effectively homeless and work on personal programming projects for months at a time.
I will admit, I did check the prices for a 45-day pass after reading this. Sometimes I wish I could go effectively homeless and work on personal programming projects for months at a time.
> Amtrak is great when you aren't on a schedule.
Not on a schedule - or - for shorter trips the overhead of flying is just too much. Airports are far away from a city center, and there's always lines for security.
I rode Amtrak Cascades[1] from Seattle to Portland a few weeks back and the train station is only a few blocks from the city center. Leg room resembles first class on a plane, and being able to walk around and sit in an observation/dining car is better than anything. Four hours, $50. I'd have spent more on gas just by itself if I drove.
[1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak_Cascades
> Sometimes I wish I could go effectively homeless and work on personal programming projects for months at a time.
or remote on full salary :D
Not on a schedule - or - for shorter trips the overhead of flying is just too much. Airports are far away from a city center, and there's always lines for security.
I rode Amtrak Cascades[1] from Seattle to Portland a few weeks back and the train station is only a few blocks from the city center. Leg room resembles first class on a plane, and being able to walk around and sit in an observation/dining car is better than anything. Four hours, $50. I'd have spent more on gas just by itself if I drove.
[1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak_Cascades
> Sometimes I wish I could go effectively homeless and work on personal programming projects for months at a time.
or remote on full salary :D
The trains on the Seattle/Portland route are really exceptionally nice too.
I rode Rochester/NYC a few times, and while still nice it wasn't quite as nice.
I rode Rochester/NYC a few times, and while still nice it wasn't quite as nice.
I once did a weekend trip from the Bay Area to Reno (on Saturday and back on Sunday), which was my first Amtrak experience. The schedule works out so you can take the California Zephyr both ways in the daylight. I figured I didn't want to ride for more than a day at a time, didn't want to deal with sleeping on the train, and I still got to see some of the most scenic train routes in the US. It was really cool, some of the highlights include: leaving the Bay Area right along the shore of the bay, including the lesser known "upper bay" (Carquinez straits), a huge (miles long) switching yard in Roseville, passing the Donner summit and the spectacular curves to come down from it, and the canyon of the Truckee river from along the river. On board, you get to meet and chat with a lot of interesting travelers, including lots of foreign rail buffs.
You get a seat assigned in the seating car, but you really want to make your way to the observation car and claim a seat with a better view. One disappointment was the lack of grandiose views of the Sierra Nevada. I'm used to driving and hiking there, and the train doesn't go through the most scenic parts (thankfully, I guess). There are some views of the American river valley, and the mountains a bit higher up, but not much of the high peaks around the Donner summit. Frankly, you get better views and get there faster on the highway (I-80), but I've done that so many times, it was neat to get different views for once. Except for one hour of 70mph on the way to Sacramento, he train felt lumbering and slow, and we did have delays here and there. The return train was 2 hours late, but I guess that is fairly good on a route all the way from Chicago (by American rail standards).
Reservations were easy online, I think it was about $60-70 each way. You can take AC transit from the transbay terminal across to Emeryville and a short walk to the Amtrak station (amtrak also runs their own busses from various locations, but you have to leave an hour earlier). In Reno, it was real easy to get a room within walking distance of the station downtown (at a casino or motel). I even had time to enjoy their river walk. All in all, it was a fun weekend, I'm glad I did it and I recommend it if you want to try the train in the US west.
You get a seat assigned in the seating car, but you really want to make your way to the observation car and claim a seat with a better view. One disappointment was the lack of grandiose views of the Sierra Nevada. I'm used to driving and hiking there, and the train doesn't go through the most scenic parts (thankfully, I guess). There are some views of the American river valley, and the mountains a bit higher up, but not much of the high peaks around the Donner summit. Frankly, you get better views and get there faster on the highway (I-80), but I've done that so many times, it was neat to get different views for once. Except for one hour of 70mph on the way to Sacramento, he train felt lumbering and slow, and we did have delays here and there. The return train was 2 hours late, but I guess that is fairly good on a route all the way from Chicago (by American rail standards).
Reservations were easy online, I think it was about $60-70 each way. You can take AC transit from the transbay terminal across to Emeryville and a short walk to the Amtrak station (amtrak also runs their own busses from various locations, but you have to leave an hour earlier). In Reno, it was real easy to get a room within walking distance of the station downtown (at a casino or motel). I even had time to enjoy their river walk. All in all, it was a fun weekend, I'm glad I did it and I recommend it if you want to try the train in the US west.
I assume this would be exclusively for people going to Chicago and returning home, as there's little reason to travel in the other direction.
I realize it's fashionable to dump on the rust belt, but, at risk of sounding defensive, there are 2.8 million people and a whole bunch of big companies [0] in the St. Louis metro area. There's basically no way to construct a narrative that supports your claim that there's little reason to travel there.
[0] http://www.gislounge.com/fortune-1000-companies-by-state/#mi...
[0] http://www.gislounge.com/fortune-1000-companies-by-state/#mi...
I feel the same way. Unfortunately, my employer wouldn't take kindly to me taking a multi-month vacation. Maybe someday...
It's the thing I miss most about school: long breaks. Even though I was working most summers, it was ten weeks to recharge, not worry about homework, studying, school drama... I was always very refreshed and eager to start school by the time September rolled around. I feel like my regular work would benefit if I could take a multi-month unpaid vacation.
I've taken Amtrak cross-country several times now, each trip combining the Lake Shore Limited and Empire builder. The trains have been on time and service had been fantastic (note: I was riding 1st class with a private cabin, which is quite expensive). I just now priced out a Washington state=>Springfield, MA trip, 2700-odd miles, and the coach price is $223. 1/3 the cost of a flight. For that money I can travel without standing in queues, without anyone grabbing my crotch, and with time and space to work and code. It's a pretty compelling proposition.
It is great riding it cross-country, I just finished up my second trip from Los Angeles to New York City in August (Southwest Chief + Lake Shore Limited). I enjoy being able to finish books and get some coding work in, and the amazing views like riding through the midwest at night and having a far off lightning storm in the background. All the people I've met on the trains are really nice, and interesting. When I tell my friends here that it is actually quite a nice trip they think it is ridiculous to take a train for 72 hours, but it really isn't about the destination for me -- just the trip. I also prefer it to airplane travel.
The cars going west from Chicago are different model (double decker) from train cars going east. The cars going west have dramatically superior facilities. Going east you have like a picnic table and a snack bar, but going west you have a bar and 360 observation windows in the rec car and card tables and a greasy spoon in the lower level.
Something to do with tunnel heights.
Something to do with tunnel heights.
Once all the nice trains going west have gone west, how do they get back?
LOL from Chicago. Or more accurately I'm told "mostly west of the mississippi" routes have the nice double decker cars and "mostly east of the mississippi" routes have the dumpy single height worn out cars.
I also heard they're starting to use new cars out east that are nice but I've never seen one outside fawning journalist articles (they may be nice, they may not, but coverage is overwhelmingly positive). Maybe next time I take an overnight to NYC I'll get to try a new model train car.
I also heard they're starting to use new cars out east that are nice but I've never seen one outside fawning journalist articles (they may be nice, they may not, but coverage is overwhelmingly positive). Maybe next time I take an overnight to NYC I'll get to try a new model train car.
What a beautiful article. What a shame so many people here didn't read it. If you're in this thread to bicker about train regulations and government spending, stop wasting your time and read the story that was shared with you. It's beautiful.
I really wanted to like Amtrak. I live in Palatka, FL. I've thought about getting a job in Jacksonville. That's an hour commute both ways by my car. There is an Amtrak station just a few blocks from me. I thought, "Hey, I could commute into work while working."
Unfortunately, it's a nonstarter. They cost $20 bucks to go one way. They have limited times that make no sense from a job perspective unless I worked second shift. And Jacksonville doesn't have DC/NYC style local light rail. Finally, the times the same. So if I were to go that way, I'm driving.
Unfortunately, it's a nonstarter. They cost $20 bucks to go one way. They have limited times that make no sense from a job perspective unless I worked second shift. And Jacksonville doesn't have DC/NYC style local light rail. Finally, the times the same. So if I were to go that way, I'm driving.
I used to ride Amtrak from Chicago to KC. But because the track deteriorated so badly they starting putting the passengers on buses. What was the point of buying a train ticket?
Took a train from Dallas to Detroit and back. Rode the sleeper there and coach back.
1. The sleeper train is in the front and almost under neath the whistle. The whistle blew all night made sleeping hard.
2.With The sleeper the food is free. The food looks O.K. but taste terrible.
3. No beautiful scenery from on the trip.
1. The sleeper train is in the front and almost under neath the whistle. The whistle blew all night made sleeping hard.
2.With The sleeper the food is free. The food looks O.K. but taste terrible.
3. No beautiful scenery from on the trip.
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It's $879 for 18 trips within 45 days. So that's going to lot of sleeping on trains.
It is worth noting that 18 trips != 18 segments.
If your trip is from Seattle to LA to Dallas, that's actually 2 segments for 1 trip.
If your trip is from Seattle to LA to Dallas, that's actually 2 segments for 1 trip.
Time for more some more railroad porn in this thread https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGES75OYIl0
"I’ve met so many, anarchists to Pentecostalists, Ivy League and Cherokee. I’ve found our diversity shocking. My fellow Americans can be incomprehensible. They say the indefensible. Do the indefensible. I think of that veteran, his struggle from party weekly to wounded gravely. And yet, he explicitly said he’d do it all again, the substance abuse, all the solo travel, the putting himself over a bomb for flag and country. I think that’s crazy. But I’m not him. I ain’t ever taken one step in his moccasins. We are a nation predicated on individual liberty and also a people wholly interconnected and interdependent. It’s crazy chaotic contradictory and increasingly I’ve found it beautiful.
Gallery requires javascript."
Gallery requires javascript."
In case anyone was wondering, that wasn't intended as a snide remark about Javascript. The way the "Gallery requires javascript" message appeared in the middle of the text like it was part of the essay just touched my funny bone in the right way.
This very morning I went to pick up a friend who was riding Chicago to Pittsburgh. The train was due to arrive at 5:00 AM, giving me plenty of time to get her home and get myself to work by 8:00. But knowing how these things tend to unfold, I was savvy: I told my boss that I might not be in until 9:30 or so, giving myself enough headroom to breathe even if the train was an unthinkable three hours late.
I was naive. The train was five hours late.
Meanwhile, I have friends who work for companies who write the software that control train scheduling throughout the country. After what they've seen, they refuse to ride on trains, and from the stories they've told I don't blame them.
It's easy to attempt to excuse this state of affairs. Our rail infrastructure is some of the oldest in the world. The country is huge and sparsely populated. The system was designed for hauling freight, not passengers. But none of that keeps me from reading pieces like the recent HN article on Japan's bullet train (http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/sep/30/-sp-shinkansen...) and longing for something so punctual and efficient.