A Google Adwords Bug That Cost Us(blog.lawnstarter.com)
blog.lawnstarter.com
A Google Adwords Bug That Cost Us
http://blog.lawnstarter.com/post/94504758458/the-google-adwords-bug-that-cost-us-1000s
16 comments
>It really bothers me, how bad the Google's support is, especially for the products that make them money
In what way was the support inadequate with regards to this article? It seems to me Google responded pretty quickly and resolved this persons issue.
In what way was the support inadequate with regards to this article? It seems to me Google responded pretty quickly and resolved this persons issue.
I guess "resolved" is in the eye of the beholder, considering Google's mistake still cost them thousands of dollars that as yet remains unrefunded.
Of course, Google should refund the money. But the support team didn't cause the mistake. My comment was to understand why the poster felt the support was inadequate.
Agreed. Also, explicitly asking for a refund might yield some results in this regard.
Google fucked up, and it took them days to resolve the issue. Decent customer service would offer a refund and possibly even a credit on top of that (without asking).
In my experience, Google support tends to have "the customer is always wrong" mindset.
In my experience, Google support tends to have "the customer is always wrong" mindset.
It probably depends on how much money you're spending whether you'll get a dedicated rep who can initiate refunds without you explicitly hunting them down. $300/day is not even a spec of dust floating in a drop in the bucket to them.
A couple years ago when I was working for an advertising company that was spending several tens of thousands of dollars per day, we were offered large (hundreds of thousands of dollars) refunds on several occasions, including some where the screw-up was our own fault.
A couple years ago when I was working for an advertising company that was spending several tens of thousands of dollars per day, we were offered large (hundreds of thousands of dollars) refunds on several occasions, including some where the screw-up was our own fault.
Google support is terrible, but they get away with it because they are a near monopoly in on online advertising.
What blows my mind is people that know how bad Google support can be, and they still build their business around Google services (Google Apps for Business, Cloud Computing, Google Wallet, etc). Amazon, Rackspace and many others aren't much more expensive and you get world-class customer service.
What blows my mind is people that know how bad Google support can be, and they still build their business around Google services (Google Apps for Business, Cloud Computing, Google Wallet, etc). Amazon, Rackspace and many others aren't much more expensive and you get world-class customer service.
I guess they don't want to open the floodgates to all the support queries they would get. But it is most frustrating as if one is dealing with the "computer says no" travel agent from Little Britain.
This has always bothered me. People always say that Twitter and Google can't offer real support because they would be able to handle the number of incoming requests.
But that's exactly what companies like Amazon and Wal-Mart do every day. For crying out loud, even Comcast (COMCAST!) has better support than Google or Twitter for their paid products.
But that's exactly what companies like Amazon and Wal-Mart do every day. For crying out loud, even Comcast (COMCAST!) has better support than Google or Twitter for their paid products.
Amazon is pretty top tier. Just being able to email [email protected] about an issue is huge (and I've seen people recount what happens when they get the forwarded "?" email).
Also they will correct any mix up almost immediately and will almost always credit you when you ask (or at least throw in another free month of prime).
Also they will correct any mix up almost immediately and will almost always credit you when you ask (or at least throw in another free month of prime).
I disagree.
try being a seller on amazon. Customers scam you all the time and you just have to take it. If you decide to fight it, your sales stats go down and an automated bot will ban your account.
when you appeal, there is nobody that will help you. The only support is email, which is a series of automated responses. Nothing more.
and emailing [email protected]? That hasn't worked in many years.
sellers make amazon a large percentage of their profits, yet they can't even given them any real support. If you look in the main seller forums, there are countless stories of people with long-term businesses getting banned for reasons like this with absolutely no recourse. They are abusing the monopoly they have on the online marketplace.
on top of all of this, amazon gets to keep your customers. They aren't really yours anyway, since you can't send them any company contact info or collect an email address.
They will also only admit this when it can. Ensued to their advantage. If a seller sends you a wrong or broken item, you will have to pay for return shipping. I asked amazon reps about this and they say because i am a customer of a 3rd party selling on amazon, they won't reimburse me.
It's funny how that works......
try being a seller on amazon. Customers scam you all the time and you just have to take it. If you decide to fight it, your sales stats go down and an automated bot will ban your account.
when you appeal, there is nobody that will help you. The only support is email, which is a series of automated responses. Nothing more.
and emailing [email protected]? That hasn't worked in many years.
sellers make amazon a large percentage of their profits, yet they can't even given them any real support. If you look in the main seller forums, there are countless stories of people with long-term businesses getting banned for reasons like this with absolutely no recourse. They are abusing the monopoly they have on the online marketplace.
on top of all of this, amazon gets to keep your customers. They aren't really yours anyway, since you can't send them any company contact info or collect an email address.
They will also only admit this when it can. Ensued to their advantage. If a seller sends you a wrong or broken item, you will have to pay for return shipping. I asked amazon reps about this and they say because i am a customer of a 3rd party selling on amazon, they won't reimburse me.
It's funny how that works......
Exactly, but the thing is, Amazon looks like they went in completely ready to compete with the big boys like Wal-Mart on this level. All of the major retailers have call centers and phone numbers posted in their stores for people to call in. Major manufactures like John Deere and Ball and even Phillip Morris have consumer call staff.
When Google and Twitter say they can't handle incoming calls or respond with anything other than automated email, what they are really saying is 'fuck you, we have no competition'...which works great until there is competition.
When Google and Twitter say they can't handle incoming calls or respond with anything other than automated email, what they are really saying is 'fuck you, we have no competition'...which works great until there is competition.
Google adwords is not for small advertisers. Period. It may work fine if you spend millions of dollars or if you have so much time and experience in your hands that losing money is not a problem, but it doesn't work for the general population.
We find Google adwords an invaluable way of backing up our TV ad campaigns and we are a fairly small start up. I've spoken to a number of Google reps and they were all really bothered about making sure that as a small business we were able to get up and running quickly because they "know we don't have a big ad department" - so from my experience, Google absolutely wants small businesses using them.
Thinking about it, with Google's push to make you add your business location to maps etc they are really starting to compete with the Yellow Pages which was/is basically 100% small to medium businesses - I guess it's a market where the combined long tail is much bigger than the big players.
Thinking about it, with Google's push to make you add your business location to maps etc they are really starting to compete with the Yellow Pages which was/is basically 100% small to medium businesses - I guess it's a market where the combined long tail is much bigger than the big players.
We find Google adwords an invaluable way of backing up our TV ad campaigns and we are a fairly small start up.
I think if you're running TV ads, it's a given that you aren't a small advertiser in the sense that 'coliveira probably meant.
I think if you're running TV ads, it's a given that you aren't a small advertiser in the sense that 'coliveira probably meant.
Size of business really isn't important, life time value of a customer is really the primary metric when evaluating whether or not a paid channel will work for your business.
If you can convert a lead profitably then it makes sense to advertise in that channel.
If you spend $400 per lead and you convert 1 out of every 10 leads to a paying customer, then it costs you $4,000 to acquire that customer. If the life time value of the customer is $10,000 with a 50% profit margin ($5,000), then you just profited $1K!
PPC is really a game of arbitrage. Where it gets hazy is calculating correct LTV (considering customer turnover, referrals, etc.) and properly tracking conversions. It's not an exact science but good advertisers can get accurate enough.
If you can convert a lead profitably then it makes sense to advertise in that channel.
If you spend $400 per lead and you convert 1 out of every 10 leads to a paying customer, then it costs you $4,000 to acquire that customer. If the life time value of the customer is $10,000 with a 50% profit margin ($5,000), then you just profited $1K!
PPC is really a game of arbitrage. Where it gets hazy is calculating correct LTV (considering customer turnover, referrals, etc.) and properly tracking conversions. It's not an exact science but good advertisers can get accurate enough.
The key difference for small businesses is that the fixed costs of learning and managing the system can skew these numbers.
For bigger advertisers these costs are insignificant in comparison to the media bill
For bigger advertisers these costs are insignificant in comparison to the media bill
I'd count us as a relatively small advertiser, but it works perfectly well for us. Since I've taken over our accounts, I've made quite an impact in terms of traffic and conversions, and we don't spend that much compared to big brands.
That, and I've gotten them on the phone for support a few times already, answering random questions I have, pretty satisfactory.
That, and I've gotten them on the phone for support a few times already, answering random questions I have, pretty satisfactory.
This is absolutely not true.
My experience is very much the opposite. Large companies tend to overspend on adwords due to agency interference, ignorance, apathy, and organizational dysfunction.
Small businesses, like doctors, for example, can make a mint with AdWords. If you sell the right kind of product, it works exceedingly well even at tiny scales.
Small businesses, like doctors, for example, can make a mint with AdWords. If you sell the right kind of product, it works exceedingly well even at tiny scales.
When I saw the title my initial thought was, "here we go, another person complaining about Adwords who probably just doesn't have the time to fully understand the intricacies of the platform."
But this was a legit bug! Google made a clear mistake. I didn't see it in the post, but did you ever explicitly ask for a refund? If it were me I would certainly be demanding my money back for any clicks associated with the bug.
Note: the nicer you're to customer service agents when you plead your case, the more likely they're to help you out. I'm not suggesting you were mean, just a general tip when trying to get an issue resolved, especially when dealing with big companies.
But this was a legit bug! Google made a clear mistake. I didn't see it in the post, but did you ever explicitly ask for a refund? If it were me I would certainly be demanding my money back for any clicks associated with the bug.
Note: the nicer you're to customer service agents when you plead your case, the more likely they're to help you out. I'm not suggesting you were mean, just a general tip when trying to get an issue resolved, especially when dealing with big companies.
The forwarding number was wrong but the Austin, Texas part was never proven though right? Was he using a Texas IP/VPN/fresh browser when searching results for it?
A good way to check is using the "Ad preview and diagnosis" tool in Adwords. You can set the location and see if your ad comes up. It's also a good way to look at raw search results (before google factors in your personal browsing history to serve up customized results).
Location targetting is a little trickier than just setting geotargetting in Adwords. The targetting issues could be Google or could be their account setup. Hard to say without review. Considering there was definitely a bug with the phone number, they should have Google review their account fully.
Location targetting is a little trickier than just setting geotargetting in Adwords. The targetting issues could be Google or could be their account setup. Hard to say without review. Considering there was definitely a bug with the phone number, they should have Google review their account fully.
Well this is unfortunate. I would have expected Google to credit your account accordingly, though.
A couple of years ago, we noticed massive automated click fraud that Google's fraud detection algorithms didn't seem to catch (which was kind of strange since all the clicks came from the same IP). However, after sending over some HTTP logs to Google, they removed all the invalid clicks from our account within a day or so.
I would definitely try to get my money back in your case.
A couple of years ago, we noticed massive automated click fraud that Google's fraud detection algorithms didn't seem to catch (which was kind of strange since all the clicks came from the same IP). However, after sending over some HTTP logs to Google, they removed all the invalid clicks from our account within a day or so.
I would definitely try to get my money back in your case.
But how much should they be refunded? How should the average Adwords advertiser know how long the error was up there for?
Google should really refund the money to you for that - they must be in breach of a terms of service?
I need to second this, you've done a great job of keeping a level head and focussing on getting the issue sorted. Now it is sorted and they've admitted fault it's time to follow up and ask for your money back.
I hate when people do this but totally thirding this. If you don't get the money back from them, something is seriously wrong here.
You have admission of fault. Right there.
You have admission of fault. Right there.
Just a guess, I'm betting their terms of service are written so it's almost impossible for them to be in breach of them.
Not to say they won't give a refund, but I'm guessing their lawyers have things setup so they aren't obligated to.
Not to say they won't give a refund, but I'm guessing their lawyers have things setup so they aren't obligated to.
I hope you got a refund?
We spend quite a bit of money on AdWords every day, and I started managing the account a few weeks ago (hand-off from an agency) and it's been a fantastic challenge to brush up on that part of my skill-set again. However, it's kind of weird that their numbers never really match up with ours, typically overreported, and I pray that we never run into an issue like the one you have had.
On the bright side, at least AdWords numbers are predictably off (about 15% overreported, on average.) Facebook Ads numbers overreport anywhere from 10% to 100%, so that's the one I worry about on a day to day basis.
We spend quite a bit of money on AdWords every day, and I started managing the account a few weeks ago (hand-off from an agency) and it's been a fantastic challenge to brush up on that part of my skill-set again. However, it's kind of weird that their numbers never really match up with ours, typically overreported, and I pray that we never run into an issue like the one you have had.
On the bright side, at least AdWords numbers are predictably off (about 15% overreported, on average.) Facebook Ads numbers overreport anywhere from 10% to 100%, so that's the one I worry about on a day to day basis.
> I hope you got a refund?
Seconded; the support people basically did state it was an error on their side, so a full refund sounds obvious. Maybe even a compensation for damages, since you probably lost a lot of potential customers.
Seconded; the support people basically did state it was an error on their side, so a full refund sounds obvious. Maybe even a compensation for damages, since you probably lost a lot of potential customers.
No credit to the account? Definitely pursue this! Absolutely, definitely pursue this. Find out why the number was wrong, find out why the technical team had to change it, find out how long it was wrong for, establish whose fault it was, tot up how much it cost you, and definitely ask for a refund!
Just think if this was your personal money, what would you do? If you just take the hit, the money doesn't mean enough to you.
Just think if this was your personal money, what would you do? If you just take the hit, the money doesn't mean enough to you.
This is interesting because it touches on a larger topic, what I call the Google bias. It is the bias that assumes that the search results from Google are the correct and most relevant results, when, in fact, they are simply the results that are the ones Google wishes / can output.
When I do a search for topics or resources that I come across on here on HN or Reddit or other sources that are extremely valuable and informative and useful, there is almost no chance that you can find those resources simply by doing a google search. That's only a small, anecdotal example, but it indicates a larger issue to me; like the top couple snowflakes that are sitting on top of the tip of the iceberg.
When I do a search for topics or resources that I come across on here on HN or Reddit or other sources that are extremely valuable and informative and useful, there is almost no chance that you can find those resources simply by doing a google search. That's only a small, anecdotal example, but it indicates a larger issue to me; like the top couple snowflakes that are sitting on top of the tip of the iceberg.
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They have always been pretty good about refunding me when directly requested and presented with evidence. I think you need to directly ask for a refund, but since this situation is public now it might not be as simple.
Hello from Google's automated help system. I see you mentioned the word "refund" in your long winded email which would have fully explained your situation to a human.
You can apply for a refund here: https://support.google.com/adwords/refund/procedures
Was this response helpful?
Yes: https://support.google.com/adwords/Yes
No: https://support.google.com/adwords/FuckOff
You can apply for a refund here: https://support.google.com/adwords/refund/procedures
Was this response helpful?
Yes: https://support.google.com/adwords/Yes
No: https://support.google.com/adwords/FuckOff
Trust, but verify.
Yeah yeah, that sounds great. The problem is, how do you verify some of Adwords' metrics and stats? There are so many ways that the service could screw up without you even being aware of it.
Even in the example given (where the OP could see a wrong telephone number), how could they know how often it had been shown wrongly, and how many people had called? Only Google knows (or could know). You have to trust them, but you cannot verify them.
Even if you come up with your own metrics to monitor Adwords, why would Google believe your numbers over theirs?
Even in the example given (where the OP could see a wrong telephone number), how could they know how often it had been shown wrongly, and how many people had called? Only Google knows (or could know). You have to trust them, but you cannot verify them.
Even if you come up with your own metrics to monitor Adwords, why would Google believe your numbers over theirs?
@ joosters you definitely right, sometimes it is hard to believe the figures when you only to look by your own metrics. it should have a proof before you trust while verifying them.
This guy doesn't have log files? This is basic stuff. There are even hundreds of companies out there who will verify many aspects of Google AdWords for you.
Is this really level of flailing emotion people bring to their customer service interactions?
"It's just super frustrating because we spend like $300/day!"
How about: "We have been spending $300/day, and an error on Google's part means we are not being provided the service we are paying for. We need to know that this is fixed and then will need to discuss our past spend with someone who can act on crediting our account. Here's how we can replicate the problem."
You aren't their buddy. You are not asking for a "solid." You are a business owner, not some tweener boy that smudged their new white kicks.
"you can also just search it now. it's still screwed up."
Own the facts and deliver them without emotional loading. "Screwed up" is inaccurate and unprofessional - whiney in context with the "super frustrated" quip above.
"You can also just..." leaves room for a different set of facts.
Give a detailed description of the path you took and the results. If the results aren't obviously incorrect, define that issue. Repeat the desired outcome.
And, if you have "a meeting" and can't get the issue resolved, then you should have someone else make the call who can grind it out or schedule abundant time for dealing with this - or maybe $300/day and the previous spend isn't all that much and you should just walk away from AdWords...
You'd be better off penning blog articles that break down perfect grass types and pros/cons of various herbicides for the locality of McLean than crapping investor cash on advertising in the unseen margins of the search results.
Lawn care is definitely a word of mouth and signs in green yard growth business. I'd ask neighbors before trusting anyone who pays for AdWords, because my bill for lawn care pays for those AdWords and a good lawn care company doesn't need ads.
Most every service I've courted that does big ad spends on Google charges more for the same or worse service than other providers.
"It's just super frustrating because we spend like $300/day!"
How about: "We have been spending $300/day, and an error on Google's part means we are not being provided the service we are paying for. We need to know that this is fixed and then will need to discuss our past spend with someone who can act on crediting our account. Here's how we can replicate the problem."
You aren't their buddy. You are not asking for a "solid." You are a business owner, not some tweener boy that smudged their new white kicks.
"you can also just search it now. it's still screwed up."
Own the facts and deliver them without emotional loading. "Screwed up" is inaccurate and unprofessional - whiney in context with the "super frustrated" quip above.
"You can also just..." leaves room for a different set of facts.
Give a detailed description of the path you took and the results. If the results aren't obviously incorrect, define that issue. Repeat the desired outcome.
And, if you have "a meeting" and can't get the issue resolved, then you should have someone else make the call who can grind it out or schedule abundant time for dealing with this - or maybe $300/day and the previous spend isn't all that much and you should just walk away from AdWords...
You'd be better off penning blog articles that break down perfect grass types and pros/cons of various herbicides for the locality of McLean than crapping investor cash on advertising in the unseen margins of the search results.
Lawn care is definitely a word of mouth and signs in green yard growth business. I'd ask neighbors before trusting anyone who pays for AdWords, because my bill for lawn care pays for those AdWords and a good lawn care company doesn't need ads.
Most every service I've courted that does big ad spends on Google charges more for the same or worse service than other providers.
But no one is doing anything, because what can you do — switch another context ad system designed for another search engine? Yeah, right. This is the classical monopoly example, that no one does anything about.