Ask HN: Are EMBA programs worth it?
Is an EMBA from a top program worth the time and money?
29 comments
i loved my part-time MBA program. with a primarily technical background, i had two key disadvantages that the program was meant to address:
1) weak business network 2) no prior business training
it accomplished these things well. could i have done it alone? possibly, but the program provides focus & structure, which are hard to come by otherwise. it also gave me closure on one chapter of my life so i could move on to the next. no single class is earth shattering, but taken together give me much more confidence when, for example, i walk into a negotiation with a VC, since i now know how to calculate the NPV of the deal terms.
my advice is to take classes around two poles: (1) managing people (teams, negotiations, incentives, etc.) and (2) quantitative measurement (stats, marketing analytics, entrepreneurial finance, etc.). strategy, branding and domain-specific (e.g., media management) classes in particular didn't seem to impart much actionable knowledge.
and network like crazy (but with purpose).
1) weak business network 2) no prior business training
it accomplished these things well. could i have done it alone? possibly, but the program provides focus & structure, which are hard to come by otherwise. it also gave me closure on one chapter of my life so i could move on to the next. no single class is earth shattering, but taken together give me much more confidence when, for example, i walk into a negotiation with a VC, since i now know how to calculate the NPV of the deal terms.
my advice is to take classes around two poles: (1) managing people (teams, negotiations, incentives, etc.) and (2) quantitative measurement (stats, marketing analytics, entrepreneurial finance, etc.). strategy, branding and domain-specific (e.g., media management) classes in particular didn't seem to impart much actionable knowledge.
and network like crazy (but with purpose).
EMBA programs differ with each school so it's a good idea to sign up to their open days so that you can sit in on the classrooms. With one of the schools that I researched, the cohort were very finance heavy so that school is a good choice if you work in finance.
This program at the University of Maryland[1] seems like it would be worth it.
[1]http://www.mte.umd.edu/
[1]http://www.mte.umd.edu/
They are not particularly prestigious.
Some EMBA programs aren't trivial to get into... Especially ones like the Wharton EMBA or the Harvard EMBA.
Prestige aside, I think the value of the MBA (or the EMBA) still lies in the potential to network with other individuals who work in similar spaces as you do. This is probably one of the best / only reasons to do it.
Prestige aside, I think the value of the MBA (or the EMBA) still lies in the potential to network with other individuals who work in similar spaces as you do. This is probably one of the best / only reasons to do it.
Harvard has an EMBA program? Must be a new program! A few years ago when I was researching, only top institution that didn't have EMBA program was Harvard and MIT just had launched their EMBA program.
Can you give some examples of people who have EMBAs and are widely considered successful? Were they successful before the EMBA?
I don't think it matters to be considered widely successful, only to better your career, life and your family's.
Just go to any program's website and you will see they are regular people. They will have a list of alumni and their titles. That could give you an idea. These are Directors, VPs and CEOs. Are they "widely" considering successful? Well, they are not as known as say the Pope or the President.
But, here is a list (notice it applies to MBA)
http://images.businessweek.com/slideshows/20101130/25-highes...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mattsymonds/2012/01/16/the-m-b-a...
"An impressive 40 of the 100 best paid CEOs in corporate America last year have an M.B.A., according to the Forbes list of America’s Highest Paid Chief Executives."
Just go to any program's website and you will see they are regular people. They will have a list of alumni and their titles. That could give you an idea. These are Directors, VPs and CEOs. Are they "widely" considering successful? Well, they are not as known as say the Pope or the President.
But, here is a list (notice it applies to MBA)
http://images.businessweek.com/slideshows/20101130/25-highes...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mattsymonds/2012/01/16/the-m-b-a...
"An impressive 40 of the 100 best paid CEOs in corporate America last year have an M.B.A., according to the Forbes list of America’s Highest Paid Chief Executives."
Satya Nadella comes to mind. He got an EMBA from Chicago Booth, class of 1997.
It really depends on what you're looking to get out of it. A job, networking opportunities, better understanding of business? Also, look at cost factors, are you paying for it, is your work? How much time can you invest?
I don't have one, but I can tell you that it completely depends on your unique situation. Can you provide more details to help people answer the question?
What industry/product are you looking at? What type position (dev, design, business) do you have or want to have? If you're currently employed, does the company prefer it for you to move up? Are you looking to learn or just add to your resume (or in between)?
One major reason (some of my friends with MBAs from top schools say the only reason) to get an MBA is for the network. With an EMBA, you don't spend as much time around other students as you do with an MBA, so you don't get a chance to build as strong as a network.
What industry/product are you looking at? What type position (dev, design, business) do you have or want to have? If you're currently employed, does the company prefer it for you to move up? Are you looking to learn or just add to your resume (or in between)?
One major reason (some of my friends with MBAs from top schools say the only reason) to get an MBA is for the network. With an EMBA, you don't spend as much time around other students as you do with an MBA, so you don't get a chance to build as strong as a network.
Depends, are you in startups/technology? If so then probably not. YMMV
I'll take a stab at this one. EMBA programs tend to be tailored to people who already have a relatively significant position within an organization. My understanding is that a large majority of people attending these programs have them payed for by their employers. The idea is to provide additional training to people who will have future, higher level roles within the organization.
I think that there are probably different flavors of this type of program depending on where you attend, but from my observations (regular MBA who had some minor interactions with EMBA's during school), they tend to fly/drive in for the weekends and return to work during the week. Depending on the program, you may or may not be exposed to "hard skills" such as finance, accounting, etc, as there is a presumption that students already have some of these skills. My understanding is the focus tends to be more on soft skills like leadership, management, etc, which will help competent employees become better managers in the future.
From the way you posed your question, it sound like you are thinking about paying for this yourself. If that is the case, and you don't already have an undergrad or grad business degree, then I would probably recommend either a full-time or part-time MBA, instead of executive MBA. You will probably get more for your money out of one of these programs.
I think that there are probably different flavors of this type of program depending on where you attend, but from my observations (regular MBA who had some minor interactions with EMBA's during school), they tend to fly/drive in for the weekends and return to work during the week. Depending on the program, you may or may not be exposed to "hard skills" such as finance, accounting, etc, as there is a presumption that students already have some of these skills. My understanding is the focus tends to be more on soft skills like leadership, management, etc, which will help competent employees become better managers in the future.
From the way you posed your question, it sound like you are thinking about paying for this yourself. If that is the case, and you don't already have an undergrad or grad business degree, then I would probably recommend either a full-time or part-time MBA, instead of executive MBA. You will probably get more for your money out of one of these programs.
a large majority of people attending these programs have them payed for by their employers
- Not true. This is number is < 35%
- Not true. This is number is < 35%
That was just my understanding, having spoken to people in the program where I went to school. It seemed like most of them were being sponsored by a company. It would be interesting to know whether this number changes based on the quality of the program. I think many companies will only sponsor a candidate who gets accepted into a top program. Across all EMBA programs, the 35% figure seems right, based on Google.
This summer I started the Wharton EMBA program. Here are the few things that struck me
1. The program is truly demanding. I do believe the program weeds out candidates who might not able to handle the demands of the program. But I see a lot of my fellow classmates struggling to balance work, life, and school. This is the #1 consideration if you'd like to pursue EMBA from a top school. Make sure you have the buy-in from work and family. They will not see you for a long time!
2. Cost - it can be extremely expensive. Our tuition is 180K+ for two years
3. Travel - if you are an out of towner, don't ignore the costs + time to travel. Jetlag can be brutal
Now the pros
1. Everyone in the class is extremely smart and motivated. So much so that coming back to work will means having to deal with not-so-intelligent colleagues. A classmate summed it up very well - she said her life is now measured by 'days to class'
2. Networking opportunities outside of your classmates too. Just last week we had a fireside chat with Steve Blank!
3. Amazing professors and staff. It goes without saying that the professors are truly phenomenal. The staff does whatever it can to make our life easier
At the end of the day though, what really matters is what you are looking for at the end of the EMBA. If you are looking for a change in career, you will have to work for it yourself. If you are looking for more knowledge or vertical movement within your current org, then go for it
Let me know if you have any other questions
1. The program is truly demanding. I do believe the program weeds out candidates who might not able to handle the demands of the program. But I see a lot of my fellow classmates struggling to balance work, life, and school. This is the #1 consideration if you'd like to pursue EMBA from a top school. Make sure you have the buy-in from work and family. They will not see you for a long time!
2. Cost - it can be extremely expensive. Our tuition is 180K+ for two years
3. Travel - if you are an out of towner, don't ignore the costs + time to travel. Jetlag can be brutal
Now the pros
1. Everyone in the class is extremely smart and motivated. So much so that coming back to work will means having to deal with not-so-intelligent colleagues. A classmate summed it up very well - she said her life is now measured by 'days to class'
2. Networking opportunities outside of your classmates too. Just last week we had a fireside chat with Steve Blank!
3. Amazing professors and staff. It goes without saying that the professors are truly phenomenal. The staff does whatever it can to make our life easier
At the end of the day though, what really matters is what you are looking for at the end of the EMBA. If you are looking for a change in career, you will have to work for it yourself. If you are looking for more knowledge or vertical movement within your current org, then go for it
Let me know if you have any other questions
Everyone in the class is extremely smart and motivated. So much so that coming back to work will means having to deal with not-so-intelligent colleagues
I couldn't help but think of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron:_The_Smartest_Guys_in_the... when I read this.
I couldn't help but think of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enron:_The_Smartest_Guys_in_the... when I read this.
Haha! I actually happen to know quite a few guys from Enron and they are actually quite smart. I guess evil + smartness is not a good combination
If you are running your own company that grew and stabilized a bit, and you have time to learn about how other established companies do their stuff and most important connect with other people in a similar situation, it's worth it. If you want to get just another title to show how good you are, it's not a good use of your time.
Based on my own experience in EMBA program and then finally dropping out 2/3rd of the way. I also know several people who have gone to top-rated EMBA program and have good idea of their results before and after EMBA program.
Goal ---- If you are interested in entrepreneurship/startup, EMBA is not worth a penny. You are better of taking the EMBA fee, spending some on buying a few book focused on starting a company and investing the rest in your startup. But if you are corporate type in large organization, the EMBA degree might help you get up the ladder.
To give an example, couple of my classmates decided that they wanted to build a business based on the idea and business plan they developed in the entrepreneurship class. After finishing MBA program, they invited me to join the dinner to discuss about getting started with their idea and next steps. They were interested in bringing me on the team. The outcome of the meeting was they wanted to rewrite the business plan document already written during the program. That's when I knew these guys will never start the business and declined to join them. And, they never did start! They wanted to plan first. They kept planning and strategizing and never executed.
Knowledge --------- If you are the type who can self-learn and don't need external stimulation/kick in the behind to get started, you can learn on your own what you need in business. EMBA program will actually be drag on your learning. These programs are much more appropriate for people who need to be fed information in small bite-size chunks.
Majority of the information I received during my time in EMBA program was something that I already knew and/or rarely have used. But couple of my fellow classmates have really benefited from the structured way of delivery of information, the basic business knowledge program provides and training on developing framework/process to evaluate and address issues.
Networking ----------- Over-rated. Majority of EMBA students are mid-career level and corporate type either trying to move into management or move up the management chain with limited future upside potential. The homogeneity of the type of students makes networking with them not as rewarding to both parties because everyone in the same boat. In addition, with family and job pressures, you/they are least likely to go out of the way to respond/help/meet after the program.
Goal ---- If you are interested in entrepreneurship/startup, EMBA is not worth a penny. You are better of taking the EMBA fee, spending some on buying a few book focused on starting a company and investing the rest in your startup. But if you are corporate type in large organization, the EMBA degree might help you get up the ladder.
To give an example, couple of my classmates decided that they wanted to build a business based on the idea and business plan they developed in the entrepreneurship class. After finishing MBA program, they invited me to join the dinner to discuss about getting started with their idea and next steps. They were interested in bringing me on the team. The outcome of the meeting was they wanted to rewrite the business plan document already written during the program. That's when I knew these guys will never start the business and declined to join them. And, they never did start! They wanted to plan first. They kept planning and strategizing and never executed.
Knowledge --------- If you are the type who can self-learn and don't need external stimulation/kick in the behind to get started, you can learn on your own what you need in business. EMBA program will actually be drag on your learning. These programs are much more appropriate for people who need to be fed information in small bite-size chunks.
Majority of the information I received during my time in EMBA program was something that I already knew and/or rarely have used. But couple of my fellow classmates have really benefited from the structured way of delivery of information, the basic business knowledge program provides and training on developing framework/process to evaluate and address issues.
Networking ----------- Over-rated. Majority of EMBA students are mid-career level and corporate type either trying to move into management or move up the management chain with limited future upside potential. The homogeneity of the type of students makes networking with them not as rewarding to both parties because everyone in the same boat. In addition, with family and job pressures, you/they are least likely to go out of the way to respond/help/meet after the program.
So why did you quit?
or better, why did you enroll?
or better, why did you enroll?
>Why did you enroll?
In hindsight, it was a mistake. I should have listened to one 'lone' dissent voice from a Wharton EMBA graduate who had said that I most probably be disappointed with the program if I am expecting to meet intellectually smart people, interested in learning, interested in startups/business growth and that program will impart any "significantly" new business knowledge or insights.
>Why did you quit?
Finally, I realized that by quitting, I can save enough money by not paying rest of the tuition and put it toward my business. Previously, I kept going because I kept getting convinced from classmates and other EMBA acquaintance that things will get better but by 2/3rd of the way I pretty much figured if things haven't improved by now they never will.
I believe I had mis-impression of what program will offer and how it may help my career and things I want to do. A better job by the programs of selling and poor judgement on my part to buy most things I heard.
In hindsight, it was a mistake. I should have listened to one 'lone' dissent voice from a Wharton EMBA graduate who had said that I most probably be disappointed with the program if I am expecting to meet intellectually smart people, interested in learning, interested in startups/business growth and that program will impart any "significantly" new business knowledge or insights.
>Why did you quit?
Finally, I realized that by quitting, I can save enough money by not paying rest of the tuition and put it toward my business. Previously, I kept going because I kept getting convinced from classmates and other EMBA acquaintance that things will get better but by 2/3rd of the way I pretty much figured if things haven't improved by now they never will.
I believe I had mis-impression of what program will offer and how it may help my career and things I want to do. A better job by the programs of selling and poor judgement on my part to buy most things I heard.
They don't just allow anybody to enroll. The majority of these programs have experience requirements. If you don't want to spend the time with "clueless" 20 somethings just out of college or with 2-3 yrs of experience, then that is valuable. The problem is that the workload is huge. You basically won't have a life for two years. Get up at 4, do homework, go to work, do homework at lunch or study, leave work at 6 or so, study, do homework, go to bed at midnight. Weekends? Forget them.
For most, you will need to take days off work, which hopefully your employer allows for (this is actually a requirement, so without this flexibility you won't be able to enroll).
Is it worth the time, money and sacrifice to you? - Traditional programs require you to quit your job, which is a cost of opportunity - The network is valuable - the learning is valuable - You could get a bigger salary. Could. Or could not.
So the math depends on you really.
For most, you will need to take days off work, which hopefully your employer allows for (this is actually a requirement, so without this flexibility you won't be able to enroll).
Is it worth the time, money and sacrifice to you? - Traditional programs require you to quit your job, which is a cost of opportunity - The network is valuable - the learning is valuable - You could get a bigger salary. Could. Or could not.
So the math depends on you really.
I worked in the admissions department for a top 20 MBA program for two years. I'd say that if you're going invest the money and time to get your MBA, you should get it from a high-ranking school. Name/brand recognition does matter. Plus, you want a degree you can be proud of.
EMBA programs are great but as talltofu said, the travel time and costs can be brutal. There are one or two MBA programs that are comparable to on- campus programs (in terms of quality and the degree you get when you graduate)- that would be my suggestion. Good luck!
EMBA programs are great but as talltofu said, the travel time and costs can be brutal. There are one or two MBA programs that are comparable to on- campus programs (in terms of quality and the degree you get when you graduate)- that would be my suggestion. Good luck!
I started the Berkeley EWMBA (halfway through) and am bitterly regretting it (though work is fully comp-ing tuition for me). I'm going to stick it for another year and complete it.
1. It is a lot more work that you can imagine
2. You will have to learn a great deal of stuff that you know you will never use again.
The benefits you get out of it are the networking and some basic business knowledge which you could get for a lot less if you are motivated.
I'd say don't consider it unless you are getting some tuition reimbursement. Not worth the $125k-$175k otherwise.
The coursework isn't valuable, the imprimatur is. What is your opinion of the opportunities the degree will create?
For a startup? If you are poor at networking and going to events and such I think you will get value out of it in growing your network.
Other opportunities: Depends. I think its a great idea for people who are mid level accountants, finance folk in big firms like Cisco or Google (classmates of mine) who need this to get anywhere.
For engineering, not too sure.
There are a lot of reasons to get an MBA - to the extent the intelligence of your fellow students matters, I thought I'd chime in with my observations. I've had the opportunity to interact with quite a few students from HBS, Wharton, Sloan, Stanford, and other reputable schools. My impression is that among the top 3 - HBS, Wharton, Stanford, 1/3rd of the students are would I would consider to be pretty intelligent. Another 1/3rd are okay in terms of intelligence, while another 1/3rd leave you wondering if they got in through massive donations from their parents. This ratio declines rapidly (away from intelligence) as you move down the rankings (as early as the #4 spot), at least from what I have observed.
Again, intelligence isn't everything, so I don't mean to say you should make your decision based on that. Just offering my observations in case they are at all helpful. Also, I should mention that this is all for the normal MBA programs - haven't had enough interaction with EMBA students to make a judgment.
Again, intelligence isn't everything, so I don't mean to say you should make your decision based on that. Just offering my observations in case they are at all helpful. Also, I should mention that this is all for the normal MBA programs - haven't had enough interaction with EMBA students to make a judgment.
I have a feeling that your sensitivity for "pretty intelligent" might tuned a bit tight. Sure there are a few "massive donation" students but otherwise HSW students in particular are pretty much exclusively 99th percentile types, both "objectively" (GMAT/GRE, Undergrad Institution + GPA) and from career progression standpoints. It's surprising that you would find so many of them to be merely OK or worse, so I'm kind of curious what you're looking for when you judge people's intelligence, if you wouldn't mind sharing.