Ask HN: Finding a job for beginner programmer?
16 comments
I am hiring for frontend + node.js in the Bay Area. Drop me a note if you are interested.
assuming you are in the US look at small markets. They have a great deal of trouble competing with high cost high pay markets.
What is your opinion about internships ?
I'd look around for smallish companies where they are going to be less rigid, likely pay less, and be more open to letting you try stuff. You don't want something too small, or you won't learn anything, but somewhere where you know everyone by name.
That's the kind of place I got started, despite having no degree and no professional experience.
That's the kind of place I got started, despite having no degree and no professional experience.
Actually, those kind of companies are the ones hard to find.. I have no problem and mostly love to work with these companies, but as I said.. It's the lack to make an initial impression while applying since I don't carry relevant programming experience...
Open source is definitely an outlet to show that you know how to code something.
Yeah, that's one of the master keys.. I have already done a few too., but i am not sure how long I could without professional hands-on experience in contributing even to open source... A breakthrough will surely change the way how i approach and working with the high minded people will teach me a lot, than I do on my own, right...
Show, don't tell. Build something and then demo it when you are interviewing. That's how I got a job after teaching myself Python.
My first project: fundmap.vc
My story: https://medium.com/@calcsam/breaking-into-programming-custom...
My first project: fundmap.vc
My story: https://medium.com/@calcsam/breaking-into-programming-custom...
This is how I got my first programming job. I spent two days writing a simple project with the employer's technology of choice and they were impressed. Demonstrating that you can get something done puts you ahead of most other candidates.
You might look for consulting companies that hire right out of colleges. They love pay you nothing and expecting you to work extra hours to catch up and putting you on projects for big companies that don't ask about resumes. Good stepping stone.
Don't expect your past inapplicable experience and eagerness to mean anything to potential employers. Everyone who applies has eagerness, or at least claims to, and since your experience isn't really applicable, it's fairly meaningless.
I'd strongly recommend actually doing programming. If you can have some semblance of a portfolio to show people that you CAN program, that will help.
Look for non-profits in your area that need help and do some work for them. Do a personal project on the weekends, etc.
I'd strongly recommend actually doing programming. If you can have some semblance of a portfolio to show people that you CAN program, that will help.
Look for non-profits in your area that need help and do some work for them. Do a personal project on the weekends, etc.
I'd add that telling a potential employer you're willing to learn or you'll learn whatever they teach you is next to meaningless as well. All the time a more senior developer spends teaching you or answering questions is time lost. We had a guy volunteer to work for free, but he was green, didn't even know the tools. That's too much 'on the job trainng' anyone here was willing to take on.
Infrastructure experience is most definitely relevant.
The OP might actually know what a packet is. ;)
The OP might actually know what a packet is. ;)
I wrote a quora answer on this topic: http://www.quora.com/Job-Search/Im-about-to-graduate-from-De...
There are lots of companies looking for junior developers. This is the first job for a slight majority of developers at my current company. We just hired two devs fresh out of college.
If you're having difficulty getting through recruiters then sidestep the gatekeepers. Find companies you're interested in working for and send them an email. Go to local meet ups and talk to people. Some of them are bound to be hiring or know someone who is. Talk to your friends and see if their companies are looking for developers.
As a hiring manager I can tell you that I'm willing to give a quick phone screen to just about anyone with a pulse. Developers are really hard to find right now. I'm thrilled to hire someone without going through a recruiter, since that saves me a lot of money.
Some companies may not respond. Some may not like being contacted directly. Don't worry about them, as you won't end up working with those people anyway.
As for the recruiters, don't worry about them either. Most recruiters get paid based on the salary of the people they get hired. That means they're not terribly interested in junior devs. They want a big check, which means they want to place people who are going to make a lot of money. They'll probably ignore you for a few years, but they'll want to be your best friends in 5 years.
If you're having difficulty getting through recruiters then sidestep the gatekeepers. Find companies you're interested in working for and send them an email. Go to local meet ups and talk to people. Some of them are bound to be hiring or know someone who is. Talk to your friends and see if their companies are looking for developers.
As a hiring manager I can tell you that I'm willing to give a quick phone screen to just about anyone with a pulse. Developers are really hard to find right now. I'm thrilled to hire someone without going through a recruiter, since that saves me a lot of money.
Some companies may not respond. Some may not like being contacted directly. Don't worry about them, as you won't end up working with those people anyway.
As for the recruiters, don't worry about them either. Most recruiters get paid based on the salary of the people they get hired. That means they're not terribly interested in junior devs. They want a big check, which means they want to place people who are going to make a lot of money. They'll probably ignore you for a few years, but they'll want to be your best friends in 5 years.
Depending on where you live, it might make sense to attend some meetups related to the technologies you're learning. These are often good networking opportunities, and the first step to getting your foot in the door in my experience is getting past the "resume stage" and making an impression on someone who already works at a company. If you go to meetups you'll start to get to know your local community and might be able to land some interviews.
And if you absolutely love coding for its own sake, there're always programs like Hacker School for jumpstarting your career and learning a ton at the same time.
And if you absolutely love coding for its own sake, there're always programs like Hacker School for jumpstarting your career and learning a ton at the same time.
Go to meetups related to whatever stack you are into. It isn't uncommon for people who have small companies to pull employees directly from those communities. I've seen posts go out to the meetup lists that specifically state that they would take new and inexperienced devs. The flip side, I imagine, is that the money isn't going to be great, but you'd hopefully be getting a lot of mentoring.
Also, a lot of people will say "write code," and that is absolutely true. Get stuff up on Github that you can show off. That will show employers that you can actually code.
Also, a lot of people will say "write code," and that is absolutely true. Get stuff up on Github that you can show off. That will show employers that you can actually code.
Do you have some work you can show? The company I work for is hiring, and I'm looking for a Python + JS dev.
As of now, no.. I am working on a project to simplify FB birthday wishes and almost half way there..
Github prof - https://github.com/avinoth
Github prof - https://github.com/avinoth
Here's what worked for me (went from working in hotels as a banquet manager to a software engineer in a little over two years):
-Work on side projects (doesn't even matter what they are, pick stuff that interests you) and keep all the code [publicly] on github (or similar).
-You'll probably have better luck applying to places that require code samples and/or solving hiring puzzles
-Get a relevant degree (I know...this is the one you didn't want to hear...but it helps a lot getting past HR and having good recruiters work with you)
-Learn more languages. Make each one different than what you know. You've picked up Python so you're not going to get much out of learning something similar (e.g. Ruby) so maybe choose a lower level language or a functional language next.
-Ignore people who tell you to focus on large companies, or small companies, or any other type of company. As someone with an "unconventional" background getting your first job as a developer will be tough, so don't be too picky, cast a wide net and see what bites....when you do decide to move on from that first job then you'll be in position to be picky (at least that was my experience).
-Work on side projects (doesn't even matter what they are, pick stuff that interests you) and keep all the code [publicly] on github (or similar).
-You'll probably have better luck applying to places that require code samples and/or solving hiring puzzles
-Get a relevant degree (I know...this is the one you didn't want to hear...but it helps a lot getting past HR and having good recruiters work with you)
-Learn more languages. Make each one different than what you know. You've picked up Python so you're not going to get much out of learning something similar (e.g. Ruby) so maybe choose a lower level language or a functional language next.
-Ignore people who tell you to focus on large companies, or small companies, or any other type of company. As someone with an "unconventional" background getting your first job as a developer will be tough, so don't be too picky, cast a wide net and see what bites....when you do decide to move on from that first job then you'll be in position to be picky (at least that was my experience).
First start manufacturing experience with your current job. Write python scripts, to automate all your tasks. Interview your co-workers and write scripts to automate their work. Talk to your marketing team, and build a django website that goes and automates google analytics reports...etc.
after each task, update your resume saying that you have python exp. You need this to get past recruiters. I had to do this to get a dev job w/o any prior experience.
Remember that most of the jobs are the 99%. (http://www.hanselman.com/blog/DarkMatterDevelopersTheUnseen9...) Unseen, unsexy. Most jobs aren't using Angular, Ember, node, go, or anything resembling functional programming. Most jobs aren't in "funded" companies, but you eat what you kill: your job will support something that makes or saves money. The kind of job where the only time you hear "traction" is if they make cars.
I said all that not to bash the "sexy" jobs, but to say that if you want to know how to find a job, don't think that a keyword count on the HN homepage is how to determine what to learn :-) You must have skills someone is willing to pay you for. I'd say that means PHP, core HTML/CSS/JS/jQuery, .NET, some markets Ruby, and perhaps Python.
I said all that not to bash the "sexy" jobs, but to say that if you want to know how to find a job, don't think that a keyword count on the HN homepage is how to determine what to learn :-) You must have skills someone is willing to pay you for. I'd say that means PHP, core HTML/CSS/JS/jQuery, .NET, some markets Ruby, and perhaps Python.
given that i am already familiar with the front end stack, i picked up python for the backend and have been learning its frameworks and coding for 4 months now.. But, when it comes to finding the job it seems near impossible to at least make an impression.. How can I let the recruiter know that I am smart enough to pick up and learn things quickly and given the desire I have towards programming, I will be more resourceful?