On those "Entitled" Twenty-Somethings(squashed.tumblr.com)
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On those "Entitled" Twenty-Somethings
http://squashed.tumblr.com/post/164976505/on-those-entitled-twenty-somethings
104 comments
Me too, graduated with a degree in the hard sciences, 1974. (They're called that for a reason.)
Then I worked as a fry cook, then a dishwasher, then a radio station librarian, then a DJ, then a lumberjack, then a carpenter. THEN I got a real job.
Don't misunderstand: kids graduating right now landed in the shit. You're right: the greedy bastards have worked us over good. But guess what kid: we're all in it, and it's always been that way.
Heard of anyone who worked all their life to build up a 500K retirement and just lost 60% of it? Two decades ago I listened to a guy tell me that he paid into a pension for 30 years, and when his company went down, it was ALL GONE.
Rodney Dangerfield: "It's a jungle out there." Bank on it.
Then I worked as a fry cook, then a dishwasher, then a radio station librarian, then a DJ, then a lumberjack, then a carpenter. THEN I got a real job.
Don't misunderstand: kids graduating right now landed in the shit. You're right: the greedy bastards have worked us over good. But guess what kid: we're all in it, and it's always been that way.
Heard of anyone who worked all their life to build up a 500K retirement and just lost 60% of it? Two decades ago I listened to a guy tell me that he paid into a pension for 30 years, and when his company went down, it was ALL GONE.
Rodney Dangerfield: "It's a jungle out there." Bank on it.
Things are much better now, then. For every person complaining, there are a lot of people working quietly - I graduated a year ago, and I had no trouble finding a job (and then switching it a couple of months ago) - but that's just one example, maybe I got lucky. Still, I can't think of a single college friend whom I could honestly call smart who can't found a job. Yes, I'm sure the people that wasted their time in college drinking and cheating didn't get much out of it, and are having a tough time now, but I can hardly feel sorry for them.
That's what I see among my friends, but I wonder if that holds across all socioeconomic strata. It seems like this recession hit the upper reaches of society first - finance, consulting, lawyers, universities and venture capital - and then worked its way down to regular unemployment. The news now is that finance is recovering (thanks to government bailouts), but the consumer picture is getting worse. Retail and manufacturing are taking it in the chin now.
Edit: Actually, no, I can think of several friends in the class of 09 that graduated from a top college and still can't find jobs. They're in non-technical fields though; maybe tech is doing better, but non-tech is still in the dumps.
Edit: Actually, no, I can think of several friends in the class of 09 that graduated from a top college and still can't find jobs. They're in non-technical fields though; maybe tech is doing better, but non-tech is still in the dumps.
The examples I was thinking of were all either CS, Math, or hard sciences - a lot of them chose to go to grad school, though.
Except when we get our real job we will get the same starting pay you got. That's without adjusting for inflation. Seriously, My best offer out of college was for a programming job paying what my father was offered for an entry level sales job in 1979. However, we are paying 2000's prices on our college education. We'll be lucky if we get to have the inflation adjusted equivelent of 500K in retirement to lose.
If that happened to you now, you would be crushed by student loans that would be unpayable on Denny's wages, possibly going into default before you got your first real paycheck.
Or you could work while going to school, skip the partying, ride a bicycle, and keep your debt to a repayable level.
I am 22 and I have a real job. During school, I washed a lot of dishes, picked up a lot of construction site refuse, drove a lot of nails, cut a lot of boards, and cleaned up a lot of spyware. Now I write software, for more than the spyware and dishwashing, but less than the construction. I'll still be able to repay my loans when they come due.
I am 22 and I have a real job. During school, I washed a lot of dishes, picked up a lot of construction site refuse, drove a lot of nails, cut a lot of boards, and cleaned up a lot of spyware. Now I write software, for more than the spyware and dishwashing, but less than the construction. I'll still be able to repay my loans when they come due.
You don't have to live like a monk. Save 20% of your income always (don't make much? don't worry you won't be saving much. That 20% is your money don't give it away.) and start practicing at networking early. You probably wont do it washing dishes, but maybe hammering nails. Construction is for a client who you can meet, washing dishes you're in the kitchen.
Talk to the people who need your services, talk to people because they might know someone who needs your services. Work out a way you can bring your talents to help others for money. I've never been without work and it's not because I'm particularly bright. I'm good at what I do, I love what I do (most of the time), and I talk about my work because of that.
I hear my friends talk about not finding any work because of "the economy". I yell at them, I've never been busier. Most of it is routine work, but for the hard sells it comes down to a simple fact. My clients hire me so I can save them money long term. So I stay busy.
I don't see how that can translate over to retail. But I can for many other professions. The writers, the sectaries, the office managers, for big companies for small for, for non profits. Chances are you can do the job for less money and with an added technical twist. They can pay you 3/4th as much, and you can make some pretty excel reports that will blow them away.
It's never that simple, but that's the jist I've seen working. But what do I know? I'm a whiney 25 year old.
Talk to the people who need your services, talk to people because they might know someone who needs your services. Work out a way you can bring your talents to help others for money. I've never been without work and it's not because I'm particularly bright. I'm good at what I do, I love what I do (most of the time), and I talk about my work because of that.
I hear my friends talk about not finding any work because of "the economy". I yell at them, I've never been busier. Most of it is routine work, but for the hard sells it comes down to a simple fact. My clients hire me so I can save them money long term. So I stay busy.
I don't see how that can translate over to retail. But I can for many other professions. The writers, the sectaries, the office managers, for big companies for small for, for non profits. Chances are you can do the job for less money and with an added technical twist. They can pay you 3/4th as much, and you can make some pretty excel reports that will blow them away.
It's never that simple, but that's the jist I've seen working. But what do I know? I'm a whiney 25 year old.
"I hear my friends talk about not finding any work because of "the economy". I yell at them, I've never been busier."
Not to trivialize the value of, well, adding value, but there's a lot of luck involved too. It was an awakening recently when I tried to refer a bunch of HN people into Google - folks whose resumes and comments looked pretty good to me - and none of them even got past the prescreen. My own hiring process went remarkably smoothly, and my recruiter hustled me between the different phases with little delay. It was a surprise to me that so many people who I thought were otherwise good candidates didn't even make it to the initial phone screen.
I've never had trouble finding a job either, but maybe I'm just lucky. It's sorta hard to reconcile the ease of getting hired/doing the job vs. the difficulty of doing something like starting my own company (which I've also tried, and failed miserably at). Maybe for some people, those talents are just reversed...or worse, they're bad at both of them.
Not to trivialize the value of, well, adding value, but there's a lot of luck involved too. It was an awakening recently when I tried to refer a bunch of HN people into Google - folks whose resumes and comments looked pretty good to me - and none of them even got past the prescreen. My own hiring process went remarkably smoothly, and my recruiter hustled me between the different phases with little delay. It was a surprise to me that so many people who I thought were otherwise good candidates didn't even make it to the initial phone screen.
I've never had trouble finding a job either, but maybe I'm just lucky. It's sorta hard to reconcile the ease of getting hired/doing the job vs. the difficulty of doing something like starting my own company (which I've also tried, and failed miserably at). Maybe for some people, those talents are just reversed...or worse, they're bad at both of them.
"Maybe for some people, those talents are just reversed...or worse, they're bad at both of them."
Oh man, being bad at both is my worst nightmare!
Fortunately, there are such variances in types of work, that surely you can find SOMETHING you can excell at.
Oh man, being bad at both is my worst nightmare!
Fortunately, there are such variances in types of work, that surely you can find SOMETHING you can excell at.
It depends on what you're doing and where you're going. I suppose that might be reasonable at a big state school with relatively low tuition for a CS degree, which makes sense at this website. OTOH, if you're going to a private school or a professional school, your part time job doesn't amount to squat compared to tuition.
In almost any imaginable scenario, you have it worse today than some 50 year old had it in the seventies.
In almost any imaginable scenario, you have it worse today than some 50 year old had it in the seventies.
You hit it right on. Part-time jobs, full-time in the summer and over winter break, big state school for Math and CS. You're also absolutely right that the 50 year old had an easier time of it, but the rising cost of schooling is a whole 'nother beast.
Can't default on student loans. It'll get pulled out of any paychecks.
Though if you can't get any paychecks, which is sorta the point of the parent post, then it's as good as a default. ;-)
[deleted]
No, garnished paychecks, among other things, are a consequence of defaulting.
No one is ever going to give me anything, so I just have to suck it up and get it for myself.
Taking it one step further, the ruthless and ambitious (becoming a norm just to survive) will aim to take as much as possible and give back little or nothing at all, maybe a bit of lip service with some condescension.
Then there's bosses making staff feel they owe them something just for providing a work opportunity in a particular field, or even just providing an income. Bosses wanting their pound of flesh and then some: $1 more for you is $1 less for me.
Being paid regularly an honest wage for an honest days' work is a great thing, anything else and someone's being screwed over.
Taking it one step further, the ruthless and ambitious (becoming a norm just to survive) will aim to take as much as possible and give back little or nothing at all, maybe a bit of lip service with some condescension.
Then there's bosses making staff feel they owe them something just for providing a work opportunity in a particular field, or even just providing an income. Bosses wanting their pound of flesh and then some: $1 more for you is $1 less for me.
Being paid regularly an honest wage for an honest days' work is a great thing, anything else and someone's being screwed over.
People who are really serious at work, get into jobs in the last year of uni or before. There are loads of programs at uni, that you can get involved in, to help businesses. Some of these even pay, i did one that involved stochastic modelling for a large car company. That is when you should get involved, companies don't want someone with no experience of how to act in the work place.
I sort of agree, except schools are hosting job fairs and finding out no one is coming. Laying people off is hard emotionally. Except for corporate raiders, most companies don't like to do it. It depresses morale. Now imagine you've gone through 2-3,000 workers. But you're still shopping around for interns. The people that stay will see this, and you can guarantee there will be a great deal of sabotage.
I remember when there was the contraction (dotbomb) in 1999-2000. I was in Uni and when I went to the job fairs (Engineering, Science, and business colleges all had their own) the amount of alumnus was overwhelming. Guys that had graduated many years before me were taking a 2-3 hour drive to this land-grant university hoping to get a shot. Using their alumni connections to get any job. You can imagine what it would be like for an undergrad, no experience, no references, a meager resume, and a start date months or years away. I remember when Intel gave new hires severance money $7-10,000. They weren't going to start for at least 6 months. But Intel just laid off ~4,000 people so no way these guys were getting in.
The problem is those programs are also tied to the economy in general. When businesses aren't hiring paid positions, it is also unlikely they are looking for unpaid interns. And those university programs are meaningless if there are no where for them to go.
I remember when there was the contraction (dotbomb) in 1999-2000. I was in Uni and when I went to the job fairs (Engineering, Science, and business colleges all had their own) the amount of alumnus was overwhelming. Guys that had graduated many years before me were taking a 2-3 hour drive to this land-grant university hoping to get a shot. Using their alumni connections to get any job. You can imagine what it would be like for an undergrad, no experience, no references, a meager resume, and a start date months or years away. I remember when Intel gave new hires severance money $7-10,000. They weren't going to start for at least 6 months. But Intel just laid off ~4,000 people so no way these guys were getting in.
The problem is those programs are also tied to the economy in general. When businesses aren't hiring paid positions, it is also unlikely they are looking for unpaid interns. And those university programs are meaningless if there are no where for them to go.
The article linked to at the end (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/16/our_gim...), interestingly, is complaining about a group of young people who are asking Congress for this list of "youth bailouts":
Among other things, the coalition wants: free college tuition for low-income students who are willing to do volunteer work; the right to be covered in their parents' health insurance program until the age of 26; college loan-forgiveness programs for young people who agree to serve distressed communities after graduation; and micro loans for young entrepreneurs to start their own businesses.
... Frankly, those all sound like far smarter, better initiatives than propping up failing car manufacturers (which are, coincidentally, dominated by an older generation) or expanded government health coverage (which also disproportionately benefits older people). If that's what the 20-somethings of today "feel entitled" to, I feel pretty good about being a part of the group.
Among other things, the coalition wants: free college tuition for low-income students who are willing to do volunteer work; the right to be covered in their parents' health insurance program until the age of 26; college loan-forgiveness programs for young people who agree to serve distressed communities after graduation; and micro loans for young entrepreneurs to start their own businesses.
... Frankly, those all sound like far smarter, better initiatives than propping up failing car manufacturers (which are, coincidentally, dominated by an older generation) or expanded government health coverage (which also disproportionately benefits older people). If that's what the 20-somethings of today "feel entitled" to, I feel pretty good about being a part of the group.
I'm sorry but I disagree (I'm a 20-something but not for much longer so I really don't think it counts).
Volunteer work is just that. You're supposed to volunteer. It's purpose is to show people the value of sacrifice. Doing volunteer work for Government compensation is called being a Government employee. Plus, as a former low income student I can tell you programs already exist that allow them to go to college for free and they're called Student Loans. With a part time job you can pay your living expenses and through grants and loans you can pay for school with very little problem.
Health care's screwed up and it should be cheaper but I don't want to send the message that it's ok to live off your parents at 26 years of age.
I don't have a problem with loan forgiveness for graduates that serve impoverished communities but that already exists for teachers and public servants.
Finally, while micro-loans seem like a good idea it would almost certainly end in a huge cash drain with virtually no pay off. Programs like YC work because they educate while funding. A 22 year old with little work experience who thinks the answer is to turn to the Government for money stands almost no chance of creating a successful business imho (and as someone who knows his fair share of entrepreneurs I've found most will tell you their first venture failed)
Volunteer work is just that. You're supposed to volunteer. It's purpose is to show people the value of sacrifice. Doing volunteer work for Government compensation is called being a Government employee. Plus, as a former low income student I can tell you programs already exist that allow them to go to college for free and they're called Student Loans. With a part time job you can pay your living expenses and through grants and loans you can pay for school with very little problem.
Health care's screwed up and it should be cheaper but I don't want to send the message that it's ok to live off your parents at 26 years of age.
I don't have a problem with loan forgiveness for graduates that serve impoverished communities but that already exists for teachers and public servants.
Finally, while micro-loans seem like a good idea it would almost certainly end in a huge cash drain with virtually no pay off. Programs like YC work because they educate while funding. A 22 year old with little work experience who thinks the answer is to turn to the Government for money stands almost no chance of creating a successful business imho (and as someone who knows his fair share of entrepreneurs I've found most will tell you their first venture failed)
"The purpose [of volunteer work] is to show people the value of sacrifice."
No it isn't. It's to help people and/or the community.
No it isn't. It's to help people and/or the community.
True, and excellent point, but that does not change the fact that if you are receiving some form of compensation that is on par with the work being done than it is not volunteer work in the traditional sense. It is, as was said, much closer to a government job.
What do you think the value of sacrifice means? The value in sacrifice is in the helping of other people. That's why we talk about the value of sacrifice when describing military personnel but not when we talk about suicide.
That's actually really interesting, I've always interpreted the 'value' in that phrase to be a character trait. Whereas you are saying that it's 'value' as in an equation, so putting in hours volunteering = good outcomes.
> Doing volunteer work for Government compensation is called being a Government employee.
So does that make people that collect social security and/or welfare cheques 'government employees?'
So does that make people that collect social security and/or welfare cheques 'government employees?'
Social Security is (or is at least supposed to be) reimbursement of money you paid into the system. Welfare is a system in which society has chosen to give people money to live to prevent them from having no money at all so it's a gift not payment for any service.
Social security was never supposed to be reimbursement of money you paid into the system. It's always been a system of transfer payments - reimbursement of money other people paid into the system. That's why it worked: when it was instated, there were many more people paying into the system than receiving benefits.
The sooner people realize that, the sooner they can come to terms with its eventual bankruptcy. That's why I hate it when people repeat the myth that you're supposed to get out what you put in. It'll make for a very rude awakening when you don't.
The sooner people realize that, the sooner they can come to terms with its eventual bankruptcy. That's why I hate it when people repeat the myth that you're supposed to get out what you put in. It'll make for a very rude awakening when you don't.
Whoa whoa...
The solvency issues of Social Security are primarily due to the Government of my parents "borrowing" money from the system that they paid into it. There are of course the exacerbating burden of of longer life expectancy that they have failed to address as well. I believe it was Al Gore who spoke about the idea of a "lock-box."
All this and generations want to call me entitled? Look you spent the money you were supposed to save. I can appreciate the social programs that result (I'm a bleeding heart) but, don't shit every where and then blame my generation for stepping in it.
All this and generations want to call me entitled? Look you spent the money you were supposed to save. I can appreciate the social programs that result (I'm a bleeding heart) but, don't shit every where and then blame my generation for stepping in it.
Social Security is (or is at least supposed to be) reimbursement of money you paid into the system.
This is true only to the extent that it reimburses/rewards/repays people who actually work. It isn't really based on how much you pay, but the taxable amount of your income. Also, how long you've been working.
Interesting that this topic should come up; just this morning I received my yearly information statement from the SSI. Have been working since age 15 (according to the statement, this is how long I've been paying taxes, too). Actually am pretty astounded at how little "taxable income" I've made in my lifetime. Has absolutely _nothing_ to do with how hard I've worked.
Maybe people who spend all day in nice air-conditioned offices who complain about how "unfair" things like Social Security are should try ditching their suits for a construction belt in the Las Vegas sun for 3 or so years. That's what my dad did (construction), and he passed away before he ever saw a penny of his Social Security benefits. Of course. That's how the people in the air-conditioned offices like it, don't they?
This is true only to the extent that it reimburses/rewards/repays people who actually work. It isn't really based on how much you pay, but the taxable amount of your income. Also, how long you've been working.
Interesting that this topic should come up; just this morning I received my yearly information statement from the SSI. Have been working since age 15 (according to the statement, this is how long I've been paying taxes, too). Actually am pretty astounded at how little "taxable income" I've made in my lifetime. Has absolutely _nothing_ to do with how hard I've worked.
Maybe people who spend all day in nice air-conditioned offices who complain about how "unfair" things like Social Security are should try ditching their suits for a construction belt in the Las Vegas sun for 3 or so years. That's what my dad did (construction), and he passed away before he ever saw a penny of his Social Security benefits. Of course. That's how the people in the air-conditioned offices like it, don't they?
> Maybe people who spend all day in nice air-conditioned offices who complain about how "unfair" things like Social Security are should try ditching their suits for a construction belt in the Las Vegas sun for 3 or so years. That's what my dad did (construction), and he passed away before he ever saw a penny of his Social Security benefits. Of course. That's how the people in the air-conditioned offices like it, don't they?
A SS advocate would point out that your mother probably got something.
I'll point out that the fact that your dad got more screwed than someone else by SS does not imply that said someone else didn't get screwed as well.
I think that your dad sould have been able to keep the 15% that SS took, or at least give it to your mom and you. SS advocates think otherwise.
A SS advocate would point out that your mother probably got something.
I'll point out that the fact that your dad got more screwed than someone else by SS does not imply that said someone else didn't get screwed as well.
I think that your dad sould have been able to keep the 15% that SS took, or at least give it to your mom and you. SS advocates think otherwise.
> That's how the people in the air-conditioned offices like it, don't they?
Yes, all Social Security advocates work in air-conditioned offices, and all people in air-conditioned offices are Social Security advocates. I love it when the world turns out to be black and white after all, instead of those messy shades of grey...
Yes, all Social Security advocates work in air-conditioned offices, and all people in air-conditioned offices are Social Security advocates. I love it when the world turns out to be black and white after all, instead of those messy shades of grey...
No, it makes them massively unfunded liabilities that you, me and our children will be paying out the ass for our entire lives. Congratulations.
Social security and welfare cheques are hardly quid pro quo for volunteer work. Of course not.
1. It's fairly clear a decent portion of the 20 somethings coming out of school now are entitled and don't work hard.
2. It's fairly clear that a lot of the 30 and 40 somethings out there came out of school, gave up their souls and worked for the man and regret it--in other words they weren't entitled enough.
3. It's fairly clear this story has nothing to do with the folks reading Hacker News who are a self-selected group of entrepreneurial folks who are hard working and self-motivated.
Please move along, nothing to see here.
Please move along, nothing to see here.
Quote:
Apparently people in their 20s are a bunch of entitled whiners.
Judging by the tone of this article I have to say, yes, his premise is dead on.
Someone fix the headline: College boy finds out that life isn't fair, cries a river.
Judging by the tone of this article I have to say, yes, his premise is dead on.
Someone fix the headline: College boy finds out that life isn't fair, cries a river.
The point that I took away is that there are plenty of people in their 20's that bust their butts. When the older generation is complaining about the '20-something whiners' the tone of those rants is usually about how little the '20-something whiners' do (i.e. they sit at home and watch tv/smoke pot/play videogames/etc rather than bettering themselves through education/etc).
Entitlement involves having an inflated view of oneself - based on what's said in the article, sounds about right.
Just seems odd that the author complains about not being able to find a job, yet takes zero responsibility for his situation.
When I graduated college (into a shitty job market) many job offers were delayed, rescinded, or simply unavailable - I don't remember blaming everyone else.
Just seems odd that the author complains about not being able to find a job, yet takes zero responsibility for his situation.
When I graduated college (into a shitty job market) many job offers were delayed, rescinded, or simply unavailable - I don't remember blaming everyone else.
I don't know that he's necessarily blaming the older generation so much as he's pointing out that the older generation made all sorts of promises such as, "Unless you get a university degree, you'll never get a good job" and "Once you have a university degree the job market is smooth sailin'" which are obviously not true. And now the older generation is complaining that the younger generations -- raised on such 'truths' and promises -- are saying "Where's this cushy job I was supposed to get with my college degree?"
I think it's pretty bad if their parents and teachers let "College boy" believe that for so long. This [TED talk](http://ted.com/talks/lang/eng/alain_de_botton_a_kinder_gentl...) might be of interest.
de Botton: Snobbery is taking a small part of someone and judging them in their entirety by it.
It is an intensely ugly trait.
It is an intensely ugly trait.
_why's most fave'd tweet:
"when you don't create things, you become defined by your tastes rather than ability. your tastes only narrow & exclude people. so create."
"when you don't create things, you become defined by your tastes rather than ability. your tastes only narrow & exclude people. so create."
The author was lied to, but not by me or my kind.
I actually vaguely remember hearing the same lies, but not from my parents, at least not without the "nobody owes you anything" caveat.
It didn't take me long to realize, intuitively, if not explicitly, that finishing college wouldn't help me get the job I wanted. Today, obviously, it might not even help me get any job.
Even absent an entrepreneurship opportunity, I dropped out, and I don't regret it, despite the stigma it carried in the computer industry, well into the dot-com boom.
I'm definitely embarrassed for my generation that we perpetuated the lies, rather than encouraging choices, including self-employment or learning a trade.
I actually vaguely remember hearing the same lies, but not from my parents, at least not without the "nobody owes you anything" caveat.
It didn't take me long to realize, intuitively, if not explicitly, that finishing college wouldn't help me get the job I wanted. Today, obviously, it might not even help me get any job.
Even absent an entrepreneurship opportunity, I dropped out, and I don't regret it, despite the stigma it carried in the computer industry, well into the dot-com boom.
I'm definitely embarrassed for my generation that we perpetuated the lies, rather than encouraging choices, including self-employment or learning a trade.
> I'm definitely embarrassed for my generation that we perpetuated the lies, rather than encouraging choices, including self-employment or learning a trade.
This is mainly the result of over-protective, risk-averse parenting. To them, the best way for their child to achieve success was along this path. If their child tried to deviate from the path, they were grabbed by the scruff and forcefully put back on this path by their parents until it was ingrained in them as the only path.
To such parents, things like entrepreneurship are too risky. Their child might fail, and have nothing to show for it. It's better for their child to just go through college, get a job at a large corporation and possibly spend their life working their way up through middle-management until their seniority gains them a nice juicy salary along the way...
This is mainly the result of over-protective, risk-averse parenting. To them, the best way for their child to achieve success was along this path. If their child tried to deviate from the path, they were grabbed by the scruff and forcefully put back on this path by their parents until it was ingrained in them as the only path.
To such parents, things like entrepreneurship are too risky. Their child might fail, and have nothing to show for it. It's better for their child to just go through college, get a job at a large corporation and possibly spend their life working their way up through middle-management until their seniority gains them a nice juicy salary along the way...
False dichotomy. You can go to college and start a business or learn a trade. And it gives you way more choices and options, not to mention enriching your life.
Assuming infinite time and resources, it's absolutely a false dichotomy.
However, especially from the standpoint of a graduating high school senior, it is very real.
I think there's an implied "first" (or "next" after secondary school) in all of this.
However, especially from the standpoint of a graduating high school senior, it is very real.
I think there's an implied "first" (or "next" after secondary school) in all of this.
You know, I was told if I worked hard I would get a job. I did, and I did. Many people I know did the same, were always working during Uni, and had little problem getting a job. Many people I know don't work hard, slacked around at uni, and can't find a job.
I found this advice to be quite good, although I am sure it doesn't work for everyone. Then again, I never felt I was entitled to a job.
I found this advice to be quite good, although I am sure it doesn't work for everyone. Then again, I never felt I was entitled to a job.
I was told if I worked hard I would get a job. I figured this was bullshit, so I slacked off. I never had problems finding a job. :-P
The plural of anecdote is not data. ;-)
The plural of anecdote is not data. ;-)
The older generation is bitter because they heavily invested according to a specific system of advancement, lived a good life because of it, and now these modern kids act like the system was always broken.
The younger generation is bitter because they heavily invested according to a specific system of advancement, discovered that the rewards provided by the system have fundamentally changed, and blame the geezers for steering them down the wrong path.
Neither generation wants to accept that the rules have changed and don't pay off the way they used to. That's why they're trying to find someone to blame. (Other than themselves, of course.)
The younger generation is bitter because they heavily invested according to a specific system of advancement, discovered that the rewards provided by the system have fundamentally changed, and blame the geezers for steering them down the wrong path.
Neither generation wants to accept that the rules have changed and don't pay off the way they used to. That's why they're trying to find someone to blame. (Other than themselves, of course.)
I don't feel all that entitled but I can understand why the "get good grades, goto a good college, have a wonderful life" crowd feels short changed. That message was drilled into their heads by teachers, family, friends, etc. I would probably feel entitled in that situation. You did all the "right things" and aren't seeing the promised benefits. No one mentioned sometimes it takes a while or just never happens. For any political issues like health care young people make themselves, and issues they care about, irrelevant by not voting in sufficiently large numbers. Again, the promise of democracy doesn't really live up to reality. I suspect it's just a common generational problem. In your 20's you're young enough to remember carefree youth but not successful enough yet to see your own life as living up to your expectations.
Well, I wouldn't hire him. Look, no one questions this is a hard moment in time to Graduate. It's just bad luck for those who are entering the job market. But guess what, Life isn't fair. Sometimes your handed lemons. Not understanding that is what makes this guy just as entitled as the articles claim he is.
My advice to him would be get what ever job he can for now, continue to perfect his skills and learn to be grateful for what he does have. If he does that I can almost guarantee he'll find a good job. I can't say exactly when (I can't predict the economy) but it will be before 99% of his fellow 20 somethings
My advice to him would be get what ever job he can for now, continue to perfect his skills and learn to be grateful for what he does have. If he does that I can almost guarantee he'll find a good job. I can't say exactly when (I can't predict the economy) but it will be before 99% of his fellow 20 somethings
> Not understanding that is what makes this guy just as entitled as the articles claim he is.
Does that make him 'entitled' or just naive?
> My advice to him would be get what ever job he can for now, continue to perfect his skills and learn to be grateful for what he does have.
Not always true. I've worked many jobs that suck the life out of you. And I've known people that have languished in such jobs because once you get home you don't feel like doing anything but shutting down. Thankfully I'm in a much better job now.
Does that make him 'entitled' or just naive?
> My advice to him would be get what ever job he can for now, continue to perfect his skills and learn to be grateful for what he does have.
Not always true. I've worked many jobs that suck the life out of you. And I've known people that have languished in such jobs because once you get home you don't feel like doing anything but shutting down. Thankfully I'm in a much better job now.
So let me get this straight... people told you to study hard and over achieve, and now you're upset because things aren't as easy as you were promised?
Welcome to the real world.
Sad Fact #1: Everything people tell you isn't true. Even your parents, religious leaders and teachers will tell you things that aren't entirely true, mostly because they have their own motivations.
Sad Fact #2: You can do everything the right way and still fail. Mostly because there are a lot of people who's parents also told them to study hard and overachieve, and by the nature of the system you can't all win big.
I had to learn these lessons the hard way, too. Everyone does, sooner or later. Some people respond by taking another look around and wondering what else they don't know. Other people start to demand the respect they were promised without having yet accomplished anything impressive. If you're in that second group you have what they call a "sense of entitlement", no matter what the previous generation told you.
Welcome to the real world.
Sad Fact #1: Everything people tell you isn't true. Even your parents, religious leaders and teachers will tell you things that aren't entirely true, mostly because they have their own motivations.
Sad Fact #2: You can do everything the right way and still fail. Mostly because there are a lot of people who's parents also told them to study hard and overachieve, and by the nature of the system you can't all win big.
I had to learn these lessons the hard way, too. Everyone does, sooner or later. Some people respond by taking another look around and wondering what else they don't know. Other people start to demand the respect they were promised without having yet accomplished anything impressive. If you're in that second group you have what they call a "sense of entitlement", no matter what the previous generation told you.
Is anyone else really curious what sort of degree the author of this article has? I just graduated in May and almost everyone I know with a CS or engineering degree found jobs pretty easily. It was only the bottom of the barrel that struggled, and even most of those people still managed to find something in their field.
I was wondering the exact same thing. That BA in a philosophy wasn't such a good idea after all, eh skippy? :D
I wouldn't say that. It's helping him expound upon the entitled morass that is his life. He'll have reached true zen when he realizes he could've saved $40K and said "Fuck You." to the world without college.
Oddly enough, Philosophy is a poor choice here. When measured, philosophy graduates end up doing quite well on the median, possibly because it is a path to law school for many but also because it teaches many skills that end up being useful in the workplace.
I suggest media arts. :)
I suggest media arts. :)
If he feels he's entitled simply because he worked hard and did what his parents told him, he clearly had (and has) some unrealistic expectations.
Why is this even getting voted up?
This guy needs to join that girl in her silly lawsuit she filed against her college. I'd never hire her nor this whiner. Though maybe this is there way of thinking of the box and getting attention. They say any kind of attention is good(publicity), yet for me I still would not hire either!
This guy needs to join that girl in her silly lawsuit she filed against her college. I'd never hire her nor this whiner. Though maybe this is there way of thinking of the box and getting attention. They say any kind of attention is good(publicity), yet for me I still would not hire either!
He mentions generational justice. Does that even make sense? The older generation is going to die first, and then the one that was younger gets to take their turn. A revolving system like that doesn't have to have each pair of adjacent agents breaking even with respect to one another if the inequities are passed on.
Well, I'm not saying I like the idea that we should be oppressed and then take our turn to oppress the next group; I'm just saying the notion of "generational justice" doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense.
I think it makes sense. Some generations are bigger than others, and the bigger ones (like the one this guy is complaining about) can throw their weight around at the expense of the others. They carry more political weight.
I, for instance, was born in a smaller generation. The baby boomers will control things for a decade or two more, and after they start dying, those younger than me will become dominant.
I'm not really that concerned about this - I came to terms with it long ago. But it's still there, and I can understand if some people get bitter about things like this.
I, for instance, was born in a smaller generation. The baby boomers will control things for a decade or two more, and after they start dying, those younger than me will become dominant.
I'm not really that concerned about this - I came to terms with it long ago. But it's still there, and I can understand if some people get bitter about things like this.
And now a few words from a parent...
We tell you these things so you will apply yourself and have what it takes when/if you get the opportunity. There is a diff between flipping burgers because [the market is tight| you're working through college| any other hurdle] and flipping burgers because you aren't qualified to do anything else. We remember questioning "when will I need to know X when I grow up?". Nine times out of ten they are teaching something completely useless, but it is something you have to work your way through.
I tell my kids that the majority of what is taught in school is bullsh|t, but it is something they must/will do because if they do not they will have to answer to me. I tell them that the most important parts of school aren't remembering why some old dead guy crossed the Delaware. The most important things are learning how to solve problems and think for themselves. I tell them the controlling, idiotic teachers they are dealing with now are just like the controlling, idiotic bosses and coworkers they will be dealing with when they enter the job market so they better get used to it.
I teach them to take responsibility for their own screw-ups and short comings and the importance of remaining focused and humble when they are the hero of the moment.
It sounds as though some kids get the sugar and spice version. Now that you know the truth adjust accordingly and get on with it!
We tell you these things so you will apply yourself and have what it takes when/if you get the opportunity. There is a diff between flipping burgers because [the market is tight| you're working through college| any other hurdle] and flipping burgers because you aren't qualified to do anything else. We remember questioning "when will I need to know X when I grow up?". Nine times out of ten they are teaching something completely useless, but it is something you have to work your way through.
I tell my kids that the majority of what is taught in school is bullsh|t, but it is something they must/will do because if they do not they will have to answer to me. I tell them that the most important parts of school aren't remembering why some old dead guy crossed the Delaware. The most important things are learning how to solve problems and think for themselves. I tell them the controlling, idiotic teachers they are dealing with now are just like the controlling, idiotic bosses and coworkers they will be dealing with when they enter the job market so they better get used to it.
I teach them to take responsibility for their own screw-ups and short comings and the importance of remaining focused and humble when they are the hero of the moment.
It sounds as though some kids get the sugar and spice version. Now that you know the truth adjust accordingly and get on with it!
Knowing everything you know now. Would you not do your homework, participate in extracurricular activities, play sports, learn to play the piano, apply and attend a good college? If not then what? Do you feel you wasted your time doing those things?
My article. Yes I would do it again. I would probably take Spanish instead of Latin. That would have been useful.
All those things are good things to do in themselves--and many will be useful in the future. That said, It's a rough time for a lot of people graduating now--and it's ridiculous to see older people pretend that they're having trouble because they did something wrong.
All those things are good things to do in themselves--and many will be useful in the future. That said, It's a rough time for a lot of people graduating now--and it's ridiculous to see older people pretend that they're having trouble because they did something wrong.
The problem is that twenty somethings don't vote and silver hairs do.
I was watching footage from the town hall meetings around the country for the health care reform and noticed only one person without gray hair there and she was still old.
I was watching footage from the town hall meetings around the country for the health care reform and noticed only one person without gray hair there and she was still old.
What is the correct attitude that twenty-somethings should have? So far I have a few guesses: work on creating value for the world, be relentlessly resourceful, focus on cause and effect instead of whether something is "right" or "wrong", etc. Am I on the right track?
Learn how to look at yourself from the other side of the table and build bridges, take, but also give equally.
Everything your parents told you was a lie. Well, not really - raising children is fundamentally different than raising adults.
Only adults can raise themselves.
Do the drugs. Have underage sex. Steal a car. Get into a fistfight.
After this, you will realize that life is not prescriptive/deterministic.
Only adults can raise themselves.
Do the drugs. Have underage sex. Steal a car. Get into a fistfight.
After this, you will realize that life is not prescriptive/deterministic.
All I can say is, and I've been working over 8 years, if I was graduating college in this economy with 50+k in loans, no job, the worst UE rate in 20+ years, I'd be pissed as well. Not saying its right, not saying its wrong, just saying...[deleted]
If you go to the bank and deposit $20, you are entitled to get your $20 from the bank. If you fulfill your half of a contract, you are entitled to the other party’s performance.
Well, if you enter into a verbal agreement with someone, you're not necessarily entitled to anything. When your parents told you to work hard at school and college with the promise that the world will take care of you, you didn't enter into a legitimate contract. So despite your whining, the world doesn't owe you shit.
Well, if you enter into a verbal agreement with someone, you're not necessarily entitled to anything. When your parents told you to work hard at school and college with the promise that the world will take care of you, you didn't enter into a legitimate contract. So despite your whining, the world doesn't owe you shit.
I believe private insurance for 20-somethings is very cheap.
Anyway, health care. I think old people understand that the system is kind-of, sort-of insolvent already, and that expanding it will probably push it over the cliff at a bad time for them. Being shrill and ranty is all well and good, but other people have their worries, too.
Anyway, health care. I think old people understand that the system is kind-of, sort-of insolvent already, and that expanding it will probably push it over the cliff at a bad time for them. Being shrill and ranty is all well and good, but other people have their worries, too.
It's not.
I'm perplexed by this. I pay $44/month for Blue Shield California health insurance. Prior to that I live in Washington state and paid only $37/month. Clearly, I'm a recent graduate, and I'm young and healthy, so lots of people won't be able to get that sort of policy. But the article specifically addresses young, healthy, recent graduates!
For some reason the Blue Shield website isn't responding for me right now, but I just checked out Anthem CA's website (the other Blue Cross/Blue Shield company in CA) and they have a bunch of plans listed right off the bat that start at $80: https://express.rwsol.com/roi/getCCRecommendations.do?produc...
Now, is $80 really that expensive for health insurance?
For some reason the Blue Shield website isn't responding for me right now, but I just checked out Anthem CA's website (the other Blue Cross/Blue Shield company in CA) and they have a bunch of plans listed right off the bat that start at $80: https://express.rwsol.com/roi/getCCRecommendations.do?produc...
Now, is $80 really that expensive for health insurance?
Not bad if you can get approved.
How much are you making a month? 10/hr, 40 hours a week, that's 1600 bucks before taxes, ends up being much harder to pay 80 dollars a month from. Hopefully, you don't have student loans to pay back too. (Hopefully, you don't have a kid!)
Doesn't sound bad, but you've probably heard of insurance companies trying to avoid paying for anything when you actually need something done.
My wife and I are both self-employed, in our late 20s, and live in CA. We pay around $150 per month for both of us to be covered, with a $4 - 5k deductible. Office visits and prescription drugs are both covered, and we pay like $40 / month for basic dental coverage.
Now, we're both healthy, which is a huge blessing. The issue of not being able to get coverage if you have health problems is one of the main problems I have with the healthcare system. That said, $150 / month for two people is hardly insurmountable.
Now, we're both healthy, which is a huge blessing. The issue of not being able to get coverage if you have health problems is one of the main problems I have with the healthcare system. That said, $150 / month for two people is hardly insurmountable.
Yeah, well, doing 5 minutes of research shows me that plans in the 300-400/month range are available.
http://www.ehealthinsurance.com
...the deductibles tend to be 2000-3000 dollars, but that's not unreasonable. If you have any data to provide, please do so, because chirpy little responses are just so much pollution.
http://www.ehealthinsurance.com
...the deductibles tend to be 2000-3000 dollars, but that's not unreasonable. If you have any data to provide, please do so, because chirpy little responses are just so much pollution.
As I can tell you from past experience, 300-400 dollars a month is not a small amount for someone in their 20s with little to no income. In fact, that's a veritable sea of wealth.
If it's a choice between eating and health insurance, which it was for me at times, people will choose eating. And having a roof over their heads.
If it's a choice between eating and health insurance, which it was for me at times, people will choose eating. And having a roof over their heads.
Usually you choose your deductible and the amount of drug coverage you want. Higher deductibles mean cheaper monthly payments.
If you are a male in your 20s and you are relatively healthy, you should be able to get good health coverage for ~125 a month if you are willing to do a really high deductible, say 10k. What this means is that you essentially only have health care if you get into a car accident or something, and for everything else you need to go into a walk-in clinic and pay yourself.
If you want routine healthcare it should be closer to 200 month. It's more expensive for women, closer to 300 a month or more.
If you are in less than perfect health then the rates go up, that is if you can get coverage at all. There are also certain programs that offer cheaper than normal health care because they use they are run by religious organizations who use the first amendment to get around certain regulations and fees.
If you are a male in your 20s and you are relatively healthy, you should be able to get good health coverage for ~125 a month if you are willing to do a really high deductible, say 10k. What this means is that you essentially only have health care if you get into a car accident or something, and for everything else you need to go into a walk-in clinic and pay yourself.
If you want routine healthcare it should be closer to 200 month. It's more expensive for women, closer to 300 a month or more.
If you are in less than perfect health then the rates go up, that is if you can get coverage at all. There are also certain programs that offer cheaper than normal health care because they use they are run by religious organizations who use the first amendment to get around certain regulations and fees.
No, fuck this guy and his bullshit attitude. I'm 25 and I work over 12 hours a day in my technology services company and startup projects and I make a good god damn living for myself and so does everyone who puts in time for our company.
It's his problem for believing the bullshit "adults" told him all his life. I knew from day one it was complete and utter nonsense. I bet he learned to blame others from them too. He should only blame himself for his lack of foresight.
I also have a degree from a good university but the difference is I used that time as an opportunity to extend my social and professional network instead of counting on a fucking piece of paper to grant me magical opportunities. College is what it's always been: a club for the children of privilege to come together and make relationships. If you treat it as such, the value of an "education" is apparent the minute you step foot on campus. Don't waste your time going to a bullshit school without any smart or wealthy people. Just skip it unless you can go to a good school.
It's his problem for believing the bullshit "adults" told him all his life. I knew from day one it was complete and utter nonsense. I bet he learned to blame others from them too. He should only blame himself for his lack of foresight.
I also have a degree from a good university but the difference is I used that time as an opportunity to extend my social and professional network instead of counting on a fucking piece of paper to grant me magical opportunities. College is what it's always been: a club for the children of privilege to come together and make relationships. If you treat it as such, the value of an "education" is apparent the minute you step foot on campus. Don't waste your time going to a bullshit school without any smart or wealthy people. Just skip it unless you can go to a good school.
What company do you work for, I'd love a job...
See, the way it is where I work is that you better fucking have your laptop with you 24/7 because if one of the duct-tape and chicken-wire projects that you're required to support goes down...well then hollly shit it better be fixed like RIGHT. FREAKING. NOW. (never mind that these outages and crashes happen at companies that we are customers of...as in: they won't let me into their FTP server to fix it when it is just fucking dropping connections for no reason).
But by golly, we better be glad to even HAVE a job! See, if we whine, or don't perform 100% all the time every day (even during our "vacation") there are a few hundred qualified applicants ready to take our job for the same pay and the same requirements (these people will burn out in a couple of months...again...and the cycle will continue).
How did this start? Too many people were told that they were special. Too many degrees were given out, and now the job market is flooded with people. We have a surplus of "skills".
How is it that people can't wrap their head around man-hours as a commodity? De beers knows this, they keep vaults full of diamonds locked away in a basement in NYC because they know that if they dump all those diamonds on the market, the price will get driven down.
We've been screwed. I'm sorry, this isn't entitlement. This is facts.
We've been screwed.
See, the way it is where I work is that you better fucking have your laptop with you 24/7 because if one of the duct-tape and chicken-wire projects that you're required to support goes down...well then hollly shit it better be fixed like RIGHT. FREAKING. NOW. (never mind that these outages and crashes happen at companies that we are customers of...as in: they won't let me into their FTP server to fix it when it is just fucking dropping connections for no reason).
But by golly, we better be glad to even HAVE a job! See, if we whine, or don't perform 100% all the time every day (even during our "vacation") there are a few hundred qualified applicants ready to take our job for the same pay and the same requirements (these people will burn out in a couple of months...again...and the cycle will continue).
How did this start? Too many people were told that they were special. Too many degrees were given out, and now the job market is flooded with people. We have a surplus of "skills".
How is it that people can't wrap their head around man-hours as a commodity? De beers knows this, they keep vaults full of diamonds locked away in a basement in NYC because they know that if they dump all those diamonds on the market, the price will get driven down.
We've been screwed. I'm sorry, this isn't entitlement. This is facts.
We've been screwed.
I would call it a surplus of skills, but a surplus of paper. The problem is that the paper you get at the end of your higher education isn't worth that much anymore. Experience is still worth something, though. So an employer is better of to take the experience indicator, since the education indicator isn't that useful anymore.
The problem isn't that there are a few hundred-qualified applicants. The problem is that an employer has no tool to filter those applicants, so the applicants can't do anything to be more qualified than the others and the process becomes quite random. My thesis is that given a good graduation result the next best thing is to learn socials skills and tricks in the interview process. In the end HR makes a gut decision.
The problem isn't that there are a few hundred-qualified applicants. The problem is that an employer has no tool to filter those applicants, so the applicants can't do anything to be more qualified than the others and the process becomes quite random. My thesis is that given a good graduation result the next best thing is to learn socials skills and tricks in the interview process. In the end HR makes a gut decision.
Isn't it a bit sad that someone should have to work a 60 hour week (assuming you don't work weekends...), likely with no more than 2 weeks a year vacation, to earn a good living, though? Fair enough if you're doing what you love, but that is never, alas, going to be the case for most people.
I'm lucky enough to get to work on what I love, but I still think that we should endeavour to restrict the 'normal' working week to a lower number of hours. In Praise of Idleness is an interesting essay on the point: http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html .
I'm lucky enough to get to work on what I love, but I still think that we should endeavour to restrict the 'normal' working week to a lower number of hours. In Praise of Idleness is an interesting essay on the point: http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html .
I could easily earn a good living working 40 hours a week.
I'm trying to get rich so I don't have to answer to some clown barely half my age when I'm 40.
I'm trying to get rich so I don't have to answer to some clown barely half my age when I'm 40.
Don't waste your time going to a bullshit school without any smart or wealthy people.
It's pragmatic of someone but not necessarily pleasant of them to seek another out just because they're smart or rich. Also, learning how to learn and learning how to relate can be undertaken at any college. But, I do agree with you on one level.
Furthermore, unrealized knowledge entitlement annoyed me far more than unrealized career entitlement (if any). I was ready to run or inherit a business empire knowledge-wise upon graduating. Alas, that did not occur!
Most grads (of Information Systems) said they used none of their knowledge after graduating: best study something one enjoys or something that will definitely be used.
It's pragmatic of someone but not necessarily pleasant of them to seek another out just because they're smart or rich. Also, learning how to learn and learning how to relate can be undertaken at any college. But, I do agree with you on one level.
Furthermore, unrealized knowledge entitlement annoyed me far more than unrealized career entitlement (if any). I was ready to run or inherit a business empire knowledge-wise upon graduating. Alas, that did not occur!
Most grads (of Information Systems) said they used none of their knowledge after graduating: best study something one enjoys or something that will definitely be used.
<blockquote>It's his problem for believing the bullshit "adults" told him all his life. I knew from day one it was complete and utter nonsense.<\blockquote>
This what he's warning everyone else against? Don't trust the lying fuckers. He did and he's now screwed. It may be his fault for having believed them, but it's a great thing for him to warn other potential suckers.
This what he's warning everyone else against? Don't trust the lying fuckers. He did and he's now screwed. It may be his fault for having believed them, but it's a great thing for him to warn other potential suckers.
Yikes. Potty mouth.
Surely we can hack our language to get across our emotions civilly without resorting to swear words. I appreciate your comment and hope the sentiment you expressed is more widely shared around here.
What exactly is the problem with swear words? He's using a word with the appropriate emotional connotation to express his message. Why hack a system that doesn't work when we already have one that does exactly what we want?
A few well-placed curses can emphasize a point and convey emotion. It's all too easy, though, to use too many expletives, and communicate all emotion and no content.
We should reserve them for the most extreme times so as not to water them down. I think of the language progression as inflation. Until we come up with more-offensive phrases to replace the swear words we have, those words are the emotional cue just below escalation to physical violence.
For every complaint about the benefits of seniority, networking, etc., there's an older guy (and usually it IS a guy) who is laid off so a cheaper kid can be hired to replace him.
Of course if you've got a liberal arts degree from a diploma mill, that won't be you.
Of course if you've got a liberal arts degree from a diploma mill, that won't be you.
He will say "Thanks for that" to his parents when he will be "thirty-something".
Before everybody starts complaining, yes, I know that this is, on the surface, about the health care debate. However, before complaining that this isn't HN-material, consider for a moment the prevailing expectation college graduates have: "I need to get a job, which I can now do because I have a college degree." The author doesn't even consider entrepreneurship.
Can we as a society do better, so more people realize that that no one owes them anything, and any promises that were made to them were probably made by the well-meaning, but ultimately un- or misinformed?
Can we as a society do better, so more people realize that that no one owes them anything, and any promises that were made to them were probably made by the well-meaning, but ultimately un- or misinformed?
A lot of 20-somethings — especially the ones with natural intelligence — grew up jumping through hoops. An adult puts up a hoop, you jump through it. A clear series of steps. Take the tests, ace the classes, get into the good college. It's clear what you're evaluated on, and it's clear what you have to do to ace the evaluation.
But once kids get out of college, no one's putting up hoops anymore. No one's telling you "Do x, then y will happen." And a lot of people have no idea what to do if the hoops aren't being put up by someone else. Making your own hoops — being able to do anything and not necessarily getting clear, immediate positive reinforcement that you've chosen correctly and done well — is simply not something that a lot of people are good at.
Maybe that's related to the upbringing of today's 20-somethings and maybe it's not, but being a member of that group myself, it does seem like a widespread phenomenon.
But once kids get out of college, no one's putting up hoops anymore. No one's telling you "Do x, then y will happen." And a lot of people have no idea what to do if the hoops aren't being put up by someone else. Making your own hoops — being able to do anything and not necessarily getting clear, immediate positive reinforcement that you've chosen correctly and done well — is simply not something that a lot of people are good at.
Maybe that's related to the upbringing of today's 20-somethings and maybe it's not, but being a member of that group myself, it does seem like a widespread phenomenon.
^^^ This. My experience of people at college could classify them into 2 types. Those that were dealt a shitty hand in life and were doing everything possible to get a new deck. And those that knew the game and were just playing along. Do X and you'll receive Y. Good grades means a good job. College is, predominantly, made of the later. The third group of slackers doesn't really count and were gone by the 2nd year.
I was dealt the shitty hand. Single working mom with more kids than resources to handle them. A broke elementary school. I learned early on the social contract between jobs and employees was broken when my mom was laid off and we were constantly fighting the water, electricity, and telephone company to maintain basic services. I signed up for every afterschool program available because I hated having to go to an unairconditioned home in the Florida heat. God must have a wicked sense of humor, my reluctance to stay home meant I did academically well. And eventually getting into a good uni.
When I got to university I was incredibly envious of those around me. Who had the resources to buy a computer when I certainly couldn't. They had everything in life handed to them. I wished I had a tutor but it was expensive. I wished I had a scheduled life because it seemed easier than trying to figure it out. I wished my family wasn't 1000 miles away because for the first time I felt alone. All of these things meant I had to fend for myself and take nothing for granted.
When I see how life is for kids lately I feel sorry for them. Everything is planned out around them with little input from them. You rarely see a kid sign up for basketball or soccer without the parents nearby. I remember signing my moms signature on so many things that when she really did sign something they thought it was a forgery. I remember forging health insurance forms because I couldn't play soccer without it and I knew we didn't have it. God if I would have gotten seriously injured we would have been fucked.
They are told to complete a task and expect a reward. I was told to do something because it had to be done. As my mom would say, "Go to school or I will beat your ass!". Life is actually like that. It can be rewarding, but fundamentally life doesn't reward you for doing a good job. You are trying to avoid getting your ass kicked by life.
I was dealt the shitty hand. Single working mom with more kids than resources to handle them. A broke elementary school. I learned early on the social contract between jobs and employees was broken when my mom was laid off and we were constantly fighting the water, electricity, and telephone company to maintain basic services. I signed up for every afterschool program available because I hated having to go to an unairconditioned home in the Florida heat. God must have a wicked sense of humor, my reluctance to stay home meant I did academically well. And eventually getting into a good uni.
When I got to university I was incredibly envious of those around me. Who had the resources to buy a computer when I certainly couldn't. They had everything in life handed to them. I wished I had a tutor but it was expensive. I wished I had a scheduled life because it seemed easier than trying to figure it out. I wished my family wasn't 1000 miles away because for the first time I felt alone. All of these things meant I had to fend for myself and take nothing for granted.
When I see how life is for kids lately I feel sorry for them. Everything is planned out around them with little input from them. You rarely see a kid sign up for basketball or soccer without the parents nearby. I remember signing my moms signature on so many things that when she really did sign something they thought it was a forgery. I remember forging health insurance forms because I couldn't play soccer without it and I knew we didn't have it. God if I would have gotten seriously injured we would have been fucked.
They are told to complete a task and expect a reward. I was told to do something because it had to be done. As my mom would say, "Go to school or I will beat your ass!". Life is actually like that. It can be rewarding, but fundamentally life doesn't reward you for doing a good job. You are trying to avoid getting your ass kicked by life.
"Maybe that's related to the upbringing of today's 20-somethings and maybe it's not"
Science shows pretty clearly that it is related to upbringing. C.f. Punished by Rewards.
The way high-SES parents overstimulate their infants and toddlers also seems to be causing long term damage to executive function. Because of poor parenting and the way our school system is designed, kids are essentially graduating with severe cognitive damage and are unable to invent and manage their own lives.
Science shows pretty clearly that it is related to upbringing. C.f. Punished by Rewards.
The way high-SES parents overstimulate their infants and toddlers also seems to be causing long term damage to executive function. Because of poor parenting and the way our school system is designed, kids are essentially graduating with severe cognitive damage and are unable to invent and manage their own lives.
Like OP, I busted my butt in pursuit of a better future, graduated with an BS in Math and an MBA just to work at Denny's for 18 months before finding my first programming job.
But I can't imagine ever writing a piece like this.
I have only one "understanding". No one is ever going to give me anything, so I just have to suck it up and get it for myself.
If OP perseveres for what he wants as well as he whines, problem solved.
Oh and by the way, I got my MBA and worked at Denny's in 1978, so STFU and get busy.