Comic Sans, meet Comic Neue(comicneue.com)
comicneue.com
Comic Sans, meet Comic Neue
http://comicneue.com/
38 comments
I agree with this (http://www.snapily.com/blog/comic-sans-why-all-the-hate/) and specifically the comment by the creator of Comic Sans: “If you love it, you don’t know much about typography,” Mr. Connare says. But, he adds, “if you hate it, you really don’t know much about typography, either, and you should get another hobby.” This meme was become a bit tiresome imho.
I can't say I hate Comic Sans itself, but I remember getting company-wide emails sent out in Comic Sans, like flyers for a bake sale. At that point I realized that it's the people sending them that I despised, not the font. Plus, when my daughter was in 3rd grade, she used Comic Sans for everything, and suddenly it wasn't so ugly. Meanwhile, her teacher sent out weekly class notes in Kristen ITC. If unicorns shit fonts, I'm pretty sure it would be Kristen
If you want to fix the Comic Sans "problem" (in quotes as folks have varying views), you'd need to replace it as a default font on both Windows and OS X. Releasing a font, even a free one, makes almost no difference, as I'd bet 99.9% of the people who use Comic Sans "incorrectly" have no knowledge of how to do so. (Or impetus.)
THAT particular coup would make any font designer get a faraway look in their eyes.
THAT particular coup would make any font designer get a faraway look in their eyes.
While your cynical assessment of the chances for Comic Neue is almost certainly accurate, at least there's a chance that Comic Neue could replace Comic Sans if it makes a big enough splash that it turns heads at Microsoft or Apple.
Of course, you're saying this in a forum filled with entrepreneurs where each of us has a slim chance in hell of turning our rinky-dink start-ups into unicorns. We do it anyway. A dreamer has got to dream.
Of course, you're saying this in a forum filled with entrepreneurs where each of us has a slim chance in hell of turning our rinky-dink start-ups into unicorns. We do it anyway. A dreamer has got to dream.
Oh, absolutely. My point is really about pivoting to address the real problem and customer. It's not, "I, Joe Consumer, want a better-looking-but-casual typeface." It's, "I'll pick one that looks cool from the drop-down-menu-thingee."
You can replace Comic Sans with Neue in all browsers: https://github.com/niutech/comic-sans-replacer
"Nothing says "local" like Comic Sans." (http://www.cooper.com/journal/2010/10/making_it_suck)
That's funny. I've always found it very readable. I have also ridiculed it in the past. Probably unfairly. These days I actually have a soft spot for the font.
I really like the update.
I really like the update.
For years Comic Sans has been recognized as being one of the most readable fonts. It even is considered to be a preferred font for those dealing with dyslexia (http://www.luzrello.com/Publications_files/assets2013.pdf).
This seems to be a classic case of form vs. function.
This seems to be a classic case of form vs. function.
Unreadable fonts are preferred for dyslexic readers, because the uncomfortableness of the font inhibits scanning (error-prone for dyslexics) and promotes reading-letter-by-letter. So there is a tension.
It is readable, but that's not why people dislike it. People dislike it because it gets used in inappropriate situations, like the aforementioned company-wide memos. It's fine when your kid's using it for a lemonade stand sign, but it's not when your Fortune 500 CEO sends out a monthly update.
This is precisely why I dislike Comic Sans. Case in point: our shop handles advertising and print work for a prominent local hospital, and we were asked to design a invitation for a formal, black tie dinner reception being held for a new doctor. We designed the invitation using a formal-looking font combination of Edwardian Script and Adobe Garamond Pro, however the draft was rejected and we were asked to replace all fonts with Comic Sans. The end result looked informal and amateurish, more suitable for a neighborhood barbecue flyer than a black tie dinner invitation.
Few arguments are weaker than the creator of something dismissing all critics of it as ignorant.
The reality is Comic Sans is awful to look at. But the big problem is its ubiquity because amateurs are drawn to it, much like Papyrus.
The reality is Comic Sans is awful to look at. But the big problem is its ubiquity because amateurs are drawn to it, much like Papyrus.
> The reality is Comic Sans is awful to look at.
Honest question: Why? What does this even mean? What makes a font "awful"? Surely this is a matter of personal taste and/or collective fashions?
I guess I'm an outlier since it's become cool to be a font nerd, but I really do not give a shit about typefaces. Except for difficult-to-read cursive scripts, pretty much everything looks fine. I find it difficult to conceive of how so many people get so worked up over this stuff.
Honest question: Why? What does this even mean? What makes a font "awful"? Surely this is a matter of personal taste and/or collective fashions?
I guess I'm an outlier since it's become cool to be a font nerd, but I really do not give a shit about typefaces. Except for difficult-to-read cursive scripts, pretty much everything looks fine. I find it difficult to conceive of how so many people get so worked up over this stuff.
Here's an explanation about why it's objectively bad: http://kadavy.net/blog/posts/why-you-hate-comic-sans/
I think the reason the Internet hates it in general is mostly because of its use in inappropriate places (I even saw a picture of a funeral announcement that used it).
I think the reason the Internet hates it in general is mostly because of its use in inappropriate places (I even saw a picture of a funeral announcement that used it).
You think a funeral announcement is bad, try a funeral home's sign:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Dove+Funeral+Home+Inc:+Dau...
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Dove+Funeral+Home+Inc:+Dau...
I don't see how that post is making an objective argument.
Poor kerning/letterfit and wonky visual weight hinder reading. That would make Comic Sans objectively worse.
In a world where good/bad are exactly defined points on a single axis where the unit is readability (and where the relationship between kerning/letterfit and readability was similarly precisely defined) that might have been an objective argument.
You don't have to be a font nerd to see that comic sans is ugly. Just like you don't have to be a car guy to see that an Aztek is ugly or Crocs are ugly. Anyone with any level of aesthetic sensibility will see these things intuitively.
Unfortunately, most people do not have much if any aesthetic sensibility.
Unfortunately, most people do not have much if any aesthetic sensibility.
Your post directly contradicts itself.
If most people do not have much if any aesthetic sensibility, then perhaps you do need to be a font nerd (or a car nerd, shoe nerd, etc) to see these things intuitively.
If most people do not have much if any aesthetic sensibility, then perhaps you do need to be a font nerd (or a car nerd, shoe nerd, etc) to see these things intuitively.
"Few arguments are weaker than the creator of something dismissing all critics of it as ignorant."
Something comes close though. Dismissing critics as amateurs without further discussion, and also saying anyone who doesn't intuitively agree has no aesthetic sensibility (as is said in a child comment below). These substance free dismissals are equivalent to your criticism of the creator's comments.
Something comes close though. Dismissing critics as amateurs without further discussion, and also saying anyone who doesn't intuitively agree has no aesthetic sensibility (as is said in a child comment below). These substance free dismissals are equivalent to your criticism of the creator's comments.
You're over simplifying my comment. I gave further explanation by citing other examples which most people can recognize as ugly without further explanation. My point being that such things exist, and Comic Sans is one of those things. Whether you agree or not, I did not just dismiss people who don't agree as "wrong", as the creator of Comics Sans did.
Though, obviously, I do view them as wrong, I gave my reasoning as to why. I could go into more detail as to the exact reasons why Comic Sans is ugly, but others have done a better job than I would elsewhere.
Though, obviously, I do view them as wrong, I gave my reasoning as to why. I could go into more detail as to the exact reasons why Comic Sans is ugly, but others have done a better job than I would elsewhere.
Just a quick note to the authors:
To test every letter in the English Language Alphabet use The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog, and not The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.
Otherwise you miss the s.
EDIT: Some fun reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pangrams
To test every letter in the English Language Alphabet use The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog, and not The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.
Otherwise you miss the s.
EDIT: Some fun reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pangrams
I really like InDesign's Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow!
I'm partial to Foxy diva Jennifer Lopez wasn't baking my quiche.
I like Google's [0]:
Grumpy wizards make toxic brew for the evil Queen and Jack.
Linux FAQ: Jump back wavy red z-ghost
(maybe the first time that's been written)
(maybe the first time that's been written)
Amazingly few discotheques provide jukeboxes.
Aside: If you think that Wikipedia page is fun reading, you may also enjoy Ella Minnow Pea, a novel by Mark Dunn.
Alternatively, one could pluralize dog if one is set on using the past tense.
The quick red fox jumps over the lazy brown dog
Both nouns get an adjective; foxes are usually red, dogs tend to be brown; Put simply, I just prefer this version.
Both nouns get an adjective; foxes are usually red, dogs tend to be brown; Put simply, I just prefer this version.
I'm partial to "Pack my red box with five dozen quality jugs".
I like "Pack my box with five dozen liquor jugs".
As a programmer, I really love Cosmic Sans Neue Mono (which I don't think is related to this typeface) -- now renamed to Fastasque Sans Mono:
https://github.com/belluzj/fantasque-sans
You either hate it or love it, and I find it gorgeous on Sublime Text.
https://github.com/belluzj/fantasque-sans
You either hate it or love it, and I find it gorgeous on Sublime Text.
I actually really like this... Consolas still seems to have better hinting, but this is pretty cool.
The v/ν similarity is bringing up unpleasant memories of squinting at blackboards containing both those symbols, as well as u and μ for good measure.
But mostly, I think that font looks pretty nice.
But mostly, I think that font looks pretty nice.
I can't tell the difference between the v/v in your comment.
The second one is a lowercase nu. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nu_(letter)
Thanks for the link. The first thing I did on their site was skim through the variations, looking for a mono version :)
Thank you so much, I love it!
> "Download Comic Neue, free for a limited time"
What does that mean? There's no real license information anywhere.
What does that mean? There's no real license information anywhere.
Yeah, that seems like a terrible "license structure". If he added irrevocable I think it would be sufficient for use, but as is I can't understand how you could currently feel safe using it?
Currently the site says: "No attribution is required, this free version of Comic Neue has been released into the public domain." and links to CC's public domain page at http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/ .
An honest question: Isn't it that in some legal systems, an absence of license means public domain?
Most of the world implemented the Berne Convention, which creates a thing called "copyright". In the world of copyright, absence of license means all rights reserved, except for "fair use", "fair dealing" and similar exceptions. In the world outside copyright law everything is in the public domain, no licenses necessary.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention
The Berne Convention didn't invent copyright.
I don't think that was ever implied.
Well, you can have copyright without declaring that everything is copyrighted when it is created. A lot of countries had systems like that until they ratified the Berne Convention.
No, it wasn't implied, it was stated outright that the Berne Convention "creates a thing called copyright" (when, in fact, the Berne Convention harmonizes certain provisions of copyright law among those countries who adhere to it.)
It's possible in any of the countries that are gray on this map, but I'm not sure if any of them actually do it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Berne_Convention_signatori...
In general, unless you live in Burma or something, you can assume that if you don't have a license, you can't do anything with any content.
In general, unless you live in Burma or something, you can assume that if you don't have a license, you can't do anything with any content.
Before 1989 the United States required a copyright symbol and year of publishing on every work. After 1989, i don't know of any country that still does this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#Copyright_notices_in...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright#Copyright_notices_in...
AFAIK in USA at least, until 1976 that was the deal. From that year on, everything is copyright by default.
This change was because The Night of the Living Dead. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Living_Dead#Copyri...
This change was because The Night of the Living Dead. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_Living_Dead#Copyri...
While I'm sure there is a legal system somewhere in the world that does that most places have automatic rights for intellectual property, even if you give it away for free. Trying to use this font for business would result in compliance issues, because it's unclear what you can and can't do with it.
A normal web page would probably have a link to the license information, but since you can't put links in CSS pages the author just had to make it open source.
what ? this is a normal web page. what do you mean CSS page ?
Bootstrap style pages look gorgeous, but don't tend to say anything useful, and I hate it.
I know it has nothing to do with CSS, and it is technically possible to have a link to something useful when using a pretty design, but I have yet to see an example. Judging by the 25 (now 26) karma I lost I think a lot of people here really like good looking pages with no links or information.
I know it has nothing to do with CSS, and it is technically possible to have a link to something useful when using a pretty design, but I have yet to see an example. Judging by the 25 (now 26) karma I lost I think a lot of people here really like good looking pages with no links or information.
What the hell are you on about? There are a variety of links on the page. You can't build a page out of CSS only.
> What the hell are you on about?
Please don't address other users aggressively on Hacker News.
Consider how much better this comment reads if one deletes the first sentence. It goes from being a bad HN comment to a good one immediately.
Please don't address other users aggressively on Hacker News.
Consider how much better this comment reads if one deletes the first sentence. It goes from being a bad HN comment to a good one immediately.
You know, there are, and have been many, many good comic fonts out there. Blambot sells them gives many others away for free. This is where actual comic book creators go for fonts.
Anytime I see someone insisting on using Comic Sans, I gently inform them that Comic Sans isn't even a good comic font, and point them to Blambot, where they can get better ones.
http://blambot.com
Anytime I see someone insisting on using Comic Sans, I gently inform them that Comic Sans isn't even a good comic font, and point them to Blambot, where they can get better ones.
http://blambot.com
Really cool, thanks for sharing. Now I must think of where can I use those fonts :) (not in the company website, surely :P )
I tend to use comic or handwriting fonts for annotated screenshots when explaining visual or UI/UX things to people. It makes the distinction between the screenshot and my annotations sharper.
There, now you have an excuse.
There, now you have an excuse.
Nice tip, thanks.
Hi
You will notice some issues if you use Windows Chrome, which doesn't render TTF well, particularly italics and obliques.
The fix for this is to include SVG font files. I excluded SVG as they're 'advertised' as only existing to support legacy iOS. Today I found out that's not entirely the case.
As for licensing, I provide the files for free for now and state on the site 'No attribution acquired'. I'm being vague because at this point I'm undecided whether to start selling it or not.
Thanks :D
You will notice some issues if you use Windows Chrome, which doesn't render TTF well, particularly italics and obliques.
The fix for this is to include SVG font files. I excluded SVG as they're 'advertised' as only existing to support legacy iOS. Today I found out that's not entirely the case.
As for licensing, I provide the files for free for now and state on the site 'No attribution acquired'. I'm being vague because at this point I'm undecided whether to start selling it or not.
Thanks :D
I would have appreciated if people in general chose a license before releasing font files.
Right now, I have no idea if I'm able to use the font for a website or for a mobile application. You may provide .woff and @font-face .css, but you don't explicitly say that redistribution through @font-face is allowed. I also have no idea if I can embed the font in a mobile application (phonegap/cordova) through @font-face.
That's what bugs me when designers provide 'for free' font files on a behance page, and what is also the case here: I am explicitly authorized to install the file locally, sometimes I am explicitly authorized to use it for 'commercial projects', and almost never am I explicitly allowed to redistribute it (which renders possible to use it on a website with @font-face or in a mobile or desktop app). As a developer, that sucks. That makes it seem like the 'free font' is for designers only (in the sense of: people that will only use the font to make an image, not a document, not a program).
These problems are of course already solved by the SIL open font license (http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=OFL_web): with fonts released under this license, I am able to fix problems with the font (kerning etc...), I am able to redistribute it (@font-face, embed) AND the original designer is protected from people who want to sell the font ("The OFL allows the licensed fonts to be used, studied, modified and redistributed freely as long as they are not sold by themselves.").
If you want to sell the font, go ahead and do it! However, promoting it here as free font for a limited time to a crowd of people who have a good chance of being developers, well...
Right now, I have no idea if I'm able to use the font for a website or for a mobile application. You may provide .woff and @font-face .css, but you don't explicitly say that redistribution through @font-face is allowed. I also have no idea if I can embed the font in a mobile application (phonegap/cordova) through @font-face.
That's what bugs me when designers provide 'for free' font files on a behance page, and what is also the case here: I am explicitly authorized to install the file locally, sometimes I am explicitly authorized to use it for 'commercial projects', and almost never am I explicitly allowed to redistribute it (which renders possible to use it on a website with @font-face or in a mobile or desktop app). As a developer, that sucks. That makes it seem like the 'free font' is for designers only (in the sense of: people that will only use the font to make an image, not a document, not a program).
These problems are of course already solved by the SIL open font license (http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?item_id=OFL_web): with fonts released under this license, I am able to fix problems with the font (kerning etc...), I am able to redistribute it (@font-face, embed) AND the original designer is protected from people who want to sell the font ("The OFL allows the licensed fonts to be used, studied, modified and redistributed freely as long as they are not sold by themselves.").
If you want to sell the font, go ahead and do it! However, promoting it here as free font for a limited time to a crowd of people who have a good chance of being developers, well...
I see you have updated the page and chosen to release the font in the public domain.
That's really cool! Thanks!
That's really cool! Thanks!
This is a known limitation in Chrome [1], its because it uses GDI for writing type to screen rather than the newer DirectWrite API. They are working on it and there is just one remaining blocking bug to fix [2] before its all sorted.
[1]: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=137692
[2]: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=331115
[1]: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=137692
[2]: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=331115
> The fix for this is to include SVG font files
It never ceases to amaze me how much shit web-tech can pile together without toppling completely over.
It never ceases to amaze me how much shit web-tech can pile together without toppling completely over.
I've always loved comic sans, it's like a family Labrador that just wants to have fun.
When more discerning people around me criticise it, I send them off to read: http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/im-comic-sans-asshole
Thanks for the refresh, OP. I can't wait to see where I can sneak this in.
When more discerning people around me criticise it, I send them off to read: http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/im-comic-sans-asshole
Thanks for the refresh, OP. I can't wait to see where I can sneak this in.
First thoughts: I like it, it will be interesting to see what the typography community has to say. Slightly off topic, but it's funny how Comic Sans, a font, has become so widely hated and mocked even among non-tech savvy people. There seems to be a tipping point where something becomes cool to hate. It's absolutely impossible nowadays to use Comic Sans, even if it's completely appropriate for the situation, without being mocked by people who have never used anything else but Times New Roman.
> without being mocked by people who have never used anything else but Helvetica.
ftfy. I find that unquestioning love for Helvetica and hate for Comic Sans go hand in hand.
ftfy. I find that unquestioning love for Helvetica and hate for Comic Sans go hand in hand.
I really should get that T-shirt I have been thinking about, with "Helvetica!" written on it in Comic Sans.
I made one with Helvetica written in arial. I always find it interesting to see who picks up on it, but I haven't quite worked out if that makes me like them more or less.
Can someone tell me why people scoff at the use of Arial or Verdana or whatever? Helvetica and Arial look extremely similar, what's the problem?
Arial is a sloppy-looking knockoff of Helvetica. It's the typographical equivalent of fake designer clothes.
There's nothing inherently wrong with using Verdana as a screen font.
There's nothing inherently wrong with using Verdana as a screen font.
Preferring Helvetica over Arial is commonly just pure snobbery. There are couple of reasons behind that: Helvetica is associated with Macs while Arial is associated with Microsoft. Helvetica can be argued to be "more original" than Arial. The Arial we usually see (Microsofts version) is heavily optimized for low-res screen display at body text sizes, which some might say compromise it for high-res/print use. Helvetica is also available in significantly more variants than the Bold/Italic MS Arial.
When I was a kid writing essays in school on Microsoft Word, I used Arial for awhile, but I started to hate it, even though I didn't know squat about typography. It was just ugly. Ugly on the screen, ugly on paper. So I switched largely to Verdana, though I did go through a Trebuchet phase. To this day, I loathe the look of Arial. When I was first introduced to Helvetica, still knowing nothing about type, I thought it was really pretty.
There's more to it than snobbery.
There's more to it than snobbery.
Okay, how? They're pretty much exactly the same typeface, except for some minor angles in some letters.
Well, to be fair, I didn't have Helvetica available at the time I developed my hatred of Arial to compare. And when I look at blown-up / high res versions of Arial text now on my spiffy MacBook screen, they don't look so bad. But looking at old screenshots of Win3.1 still draws my ire. Verdana would have made Windows look so much better had they made that the main OS sans-serif. Arial's just so... pedestrian.
It may have had much more to do with the fact that Win 3.11 had shitty text display than with any real problem with Arial. But Arial really did look horrendous to my eyes compared to Verdana, on the same machine. I do think that had I had access to Helvetica back then I would have liked it more. But without a time machine it's impossible to tell.
I also grew up with computers and started looking at text on screens from the fourth grade. I'd had a long time to develop my eye for type by the time I was writing papers in high school. I could look at a page of printed text and tell which (Microsoft) font it was using, I doubt many kids back then could. I do think I'd have been able to tell Arial from Helvetica. There are quite a few differences between the two. Enough that my practiced eye would be able to tell the difference. Not that my programming day job affords me much practice in that regard.
It may have had much more to do with the fact that Win 3.11 had shitty text display than with any real problem with Arial. But Arial really did look horrendous to my eyes compared to Verdana, on the same machine. I do think that had I had access to Helvetica back then I would have liked it more. But without a time machine it's impossible to tell.
I also grew up with computers and started looking at text on screens from the fourth grade. I'd had a long time to develop my eye for type by the time I was writing papers in high school. I could look at a page of printed text and tell which (Microsoft) font it was using, I doubt many kids back then could. I do think I'd have been able to tell Arial from Helvetica. There are quite a few differences between the two. Enough that my practiced eye would be able to tell the difference. Not that my programming day job affords me much practice in that regard.
Okay, I just popped up two TextEdit windows with the same text in Helvetica and Arial. After staring at them for about ten minutes, I can definitely say I like Helvetica better.
Arial just looks clunky compared to it. Helvetica's loops are more rounded, they stand out more boldly from the staffs than Arial's. It's a much more confident typeface. Arial's 'e' looks squashed, it reminds me of a trollface. Its 's' has the same problem, though not as pronounced. Helvetica's versions are much more elegant. Helvetica's numerals are far nicer than Arial's, in particular the '1' and the '2'. The tails of the '6' and '9' daringly overhang the loop slightly in Helvetica, no such eccentricities in Arial, except for the 'f', whose top pokes out past the cross. It would ordinarily be a fine quirk, but in Arial it just looks out-of-place.
Arial just looks clunky compared to it. Helvetica's loops are more rounded, they stand out more boldly from the staffs than Arial's. It's a much more confident typeface. Arial's 'e' looks squashed, it reminds me of a trollface. Its 's' has the same problem, though not as pronounced. Helvetica's versions are much more elegant. Helvetica's numerals are far nicer than Arial's, in particular the '1' and the '2'. The tails of the '6' and '9' daringly overhang the loop slightly in Helvetica, no such eccentricities in Arial, except for the 'f', whose top pokes out past the cross. It would ordinarily be a fine quirk, but in Arial it just looks out-of-place.
I have one of those too. It's quite rare that anyone comments on it.
There is some potential to create the weirdest partner look.
Please don't use the "fixed this for you" meme. It's needlessly snarky. Just explain how you disagree.
I find the qualification of "appropriate for the situation" somewhat disturbing in the example of comic sans. Just like wearing a clown costume to a job interview is hardly ever appropriate (except when you are applying for a job as a clown, then it could bear bonus points for bringing your own).
On the other hand, wearing a clown costume when working as one might be a good idea. Not all documents that contain text are "job interviews".
In my opinion there is just no good use for Comic Sans, except for speech bubbles in a comic (and even for that there are better fonts).
Important memo or note at a pediatric ward of a hospital? Well, you are still communicating with adults, so you don't need to use a "childish" font. Funeral? Nope. Childs Birthday? Nope.
Important memo or note at a pediatric ward of a hospital? Well, you are still communicating with adults, so you don't need to use a "childish" font. Funeral? Nope. Childs Birthday? Nope.
I don't understand the emotional baggage that comes with Comic Sans. Its a font, not a statement. The message is in how the letters are arranged. I'm not even sure I can recognize Comic Sans if I saw it.
Moral? SO there are people like me, who don't give a leap what font you use. Its fine to communicate with us with Comic Sans or Dingbats or whatever. Ignore the people with their banners crusading for better communications through clever framing of the ink.
Moral? SO there are people like me, who don't give a leap what font you use. Its fine to communicate with us with Comic Sans or Dingbats or whatever. Ignore the people with their banners crusading for better communications through clever framing of the ink.
I think people hate Comic Sans because of how many people used it inappropriately.
In my experience it is a certain class of 'designers' that mock Comic Sans. These 'designers' exist a plenty in the wild even though they are not really 'designers':
1) Have Apple branded computer - check.
2) Do not know how to add content to a CMS - check.
3) Incapable of making the smallest tweak to CSS - check.
4) Move files around with a DropBox type gadget and have to get a 'developer' to 'FTP' that PDF to a server - check.
5) Only 'design' for Mac screens with a minimum resolution of Full HD even though the iphone has been out for a while - check.
6) Take inspiration from the latest site-du-jour in a me-too copy-and-paste way, bringing no blue sky thinking to the table - check.
7) Think in terms of CMYK and DPI at all times - check.
8) Never use client content in mock ups, go for Lorem Ipsum when shapes on a page are needed - check.
9) Throw a tantrum if a developer or client makes the slightest change from the cast in stone design mockups for a good reason such as usability - check.
10) Mock 'Comic Sans' - wow I am a real designer now!!!
1) Have Apple branded computer - check.
2) Do not know how to add content to a CMS - check.
3) Incapable of making the smallest tweak to CSS - check.
4) Move files around with a DropBox type gadget and have to get a 'developer' to 'FTP' that PDF to a server - check.
5) Only 'design' for Mac screens with a minimum resolution of Full HD even though the iphone has been out for a while - check.
6) Take inspiration from the latest site-du-jour in a me-too copy-and-paste way, bringing no blue sky thinking to the table - check.
7) Think in terms of CMYK and DPI at all times - check.
8) Never use client content in mock ups, go for Lorem Ipsum when shapes on a page are needed - check.
9) Throw a tantrum if a developer or client makes the slightest change from the cast in stone design mockups for a good reason such as usability - check.
10) Mock 'Comic Sans' - wow I am a real designer now!!!
One out of ten for me - I loathe Comic Sans, but item 1-9 don't fit me at all.
People keep listing alternatives, here's another one: Comic Jens. http://www.netzallee.de/extra/comic-jens-en
It's even CC-licensed.
It's even CC-licensed.
"The squashed, wonky, and weird glyphs of Comic Sans have been beaten into shape while maintaining the honesty that made Comic Sans so popular."
It's half as honest. It's dilute Comic Sans. It's the diet coke of casual.
It's half as honest. It's dilute Comic Sans. It's the diet coke of casual.
The kerning is sloppy, see "f ox".
Yeah in italics it's all over the place. It doesn't bother me so much for the other variants.
Windows Chrome appears to be ignoring the kerning tables in the True Type files, as 'fox' appears fine (for me) on everything else I'm testing on. If I've missed something please let me know.
Chrome doesn't shape text (ignoring kerning) if it contains entirely Latin text, as a questionable performance optimization that really reduces legibility of text (IMO). You can use "text-rendering: optimizeLegibility;" to force it to obey kerning.
These were taken in IE on Windows. The italic version seems far worse than the normal version, but they're all a bit wonky IMO.
http://imgur.com/a/i5KjF
http://imgur.com/a/i5KjF
Are you sure it's ignoring them? mansr said the kerning table is incomplete. Could it be that you were just lucky on everything you tested on?
Looks a bit off in Safari 7 too.
Looks good on Firefox/Linux.
Firefox/Linux here and looks bad: http://i.imgur.com/tYCJXxb.png
That's because the kerning tables in this font are woefully incomplete. The only pairs defined are "//", "Ke", "To", "We", "Ze", "Zo", "iz", "oz", "yp", "'r", and "'s".
Then again, Comic Sans from MS has no kerning at all.
Then again, Comic Sans from MS has no kerning at all.
In other words, it's the opposite of keming.
Beautiful. Friendly. Human. More readable. You've redeemed one of the most hated fonts. You might want to fix up a few kerning issues and re-release but overall I love it. Feels friendly and personable.
If you can do the same with Papyrus you will be knighted.
If you can do the same with Papyrus you will be knighted.
Then all we'll need is a pair of augmented reality glasses that replace Papyrus when looking at restaurant menus.
This is headed in the right direction - but certain things still make the text look not quite right. The angle on some of the vertical lines is still off, giving an unsettling effect, and the curve on 'C/c' need to be smoothed out a bit. Now the next step is to write a worm that replaces comic sans with this on all machines.
I think this is too regular/rigid to be true replacement to Comic Sans.
FYI "I-hate-comic-sans" is better and is permanently free: http://www.dafont.com/i-hate-comic-sans.font
Also, Rondouillar: http://www.dafont.com/rondouillard.font?l[]=1
Also, Rondouillar: http://www.dafont.com/rondouillard.font?l[]=1
Nice, a monospace variant would be awesome!
Perfect for dogescript (https://github.com/remixz/dogescript).
"The squashed, wonky, and weird glyphs of Comic Sans have been beaten into shape while maintaining the honesty that made Comic Sans so popular."
Doesn't this directly make Comic Neue inferior to Comic Sans for people with dyslexia, one of the original fonts plus points.
Doesn't this directly make Comic Neue inferior to Comic Sans for people with dyslexia, one of the original fonts plus points.
If your aim is to be friendly to people with dyslexia there are better fonts than Comic Sans though.
True, but I don't believe there's a more dyslexia friendly font in standard fonts which are available on more platforms.
Just a little gripe of mine, to be honest, but it's really one of the only positive things to the font, and having it removed in the process of attempting to improve the font is a bit funny to me.
Just a little gripe of mine, to be honest, but it's really one of the only positive things to the font, and having it removed in the process of attempting to improve the font is a bit funny to me.
Public domain license? Awesome! Typographers after my own heart. We need more people to be willing to release their work into the public domain. I'd love to see new open-source projects choose public domain over Apache- or BSD-style permissive licenses.
Who wants to break it to them that it should be jumps not jumped :)
Comic Sans does serve one good purpose; it's a dyslexia-friendly typeface. It's nice that Comic Neue preserves some of the letter "hints" (ie. the "b" and "d" glyphs have slightly different bottom terminals).
Although if you're trying to optimize specifically for dyslexia, you'd be better off with something like OpenDyslexic [1].
[1] - http://opendyslexic.org/about/
Although if you're trying to optimize specifically for dyslexia, you'd be better off with something like OpenDyslexic [1].
[1] - http://opendyslexic.org/about/
Proprietary font? No, thanks.
It's bikeshedding since I know nothing about design, but I feel like the name is a bad fit. Comic Sans looks more like a comic speech-bubble script than Comic Neue. Comic Neue looks like a better hand-printed font, but it would look worse in a speech bubble.
It might not be a better alternative to Comic Sans for /that/ particular use case - but for most situations where Comic Sans is used today, Comic Neue would be an enormous improvement.
The oblique versions don't work on Windows(7). The letter shapes are severely deformed and the sizes are all over the place.
Otherwise I think it could be a usable font (if not for the prevailing opinion about comic sans).
Otherwise I think it could be a usable font (if not for the prevailing opinion about comic sans).
Hi, funny someone reported that issue about 6 hours ago. I re-upped the font files and it's looking fine for me now on Win 7, can you confirm?
I have tried downloading it again and it still looks bad when previewing the font.
In Word it looks ok but I'm not sure if selecting Comic Neue and italics will use the oblique version or not?
The oblique *.ttf files where last modified March 14 in the file I downloaded.
In Word it looks ok but I'm not sure if selecting Comic Neue and italics will use the oblique version or not?
The oblique *.ttf files where last modified March 14 in the file I downloaded.
I really like it, although the kerning definitely needs some fine tuning, as others have already mentioned. I have a hard time seeing it catching on though, but I hope I'm wrong! Good job!
I've never had a reason to use Comic Sans in any particular project, but the way people talk about it you'd think it was a mass murderer. It's just a typefont, guys.
Slightly off-topic, but can someone recommend a good book about typography? I mean more about the history of typography, less about how to design new fonts.
An excellent read is Bringhurst's "The Elements of Typographic Style"[0], for both history and theory.
0: http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Typographic-Style-Robert-Brin...
0: http://www.amazon.com/Elements-Typographic-Style-Robert-Brin...
And for the prose as well. My favourite quote:
“A man who would letterspace lower case would steal sheep, Frederic Goudy liked to say. If this wisdom needs updating, it is chiefly to add that a woman who would letterspace lower case would steal sheep as well.”
“A man who would letterspace lower case would steal sheep, Frederic Goudy liked to say. If this wisdom needs updating, it is chiefly to add that a woman who would letterspace lower case would steal sheep as well.”
I really enjoyed this online book, http://practicaltypography.com, and the typesetting is gorgeous.
What is "Comic Neue" supposed to mean?
It's "Neue Helvetica", not "Helvetica Neue". It's only called "Helvetica Neue" in lists for the sake of alphabetical sorting.
German "Neue" always stands before the noun. "New Helvetica" -> "Neue Helvetica". The generic form is "Neu", so "Helvetica New" -> "Helvetica Neu".
It's "Neue Helvetica", not "Helvetica Neue". It's only called "Helvetica Neue" in lists for the sake of alphabetical sorting.
German "Neue" always stands before the noun. "New Helvetica" -> "Neue Helvetica". The generic form is "Neu", so "Helvetica New" -> "Helvetica Neu".
You're assuming too much. It doesn't have to mean anything; the creator of a font can name it whatever they wish.
It's obviously a reference to "Neue Helvetica", and that is the font's name, not "Helvetica Neue", as too many people seem to believe. Just wanted to point that out.
The metrics on this font are a bit weird. E.g. as the type gets bolder it seems to tighten up vertically.
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It does not support unicode characters.
But does it work well in comics ?
should've made it a banana stand, there is always money in the banana stand
I like it.
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