Good laptops for Linux(reddit.com)
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Good laptops for Linux
http://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/20knkf/good_laptops_for_linux/
14 comments
OK not a Macbook Pro, but I got hold of a 2012 Macbook Air recently . Installing Ubuntu was a pain in the arse (and the reason I am with Ubunutu rather than another version of Linux - they do make it a bit easier with the secure boot nonsense). Its a work machine, so I can't just wipe OSX.
One button mouse is crap as well. You can emulate a right click by tapping with two fingers, but it sometimes doesn't work well with certain applications. I miss having a third button and pasting the highlighted buffer. Some keys are missing - no delete, only backspace. Loads of little quirks like this - you can work around but why should I need to?
Hardware wise it seems to work well though.And no real issues with Ubunutu recognising stuff.
Some other really annoying stuff like no HDMI, lack of ethernet port (who needs that you say? I did when I went to a boarding house in Germany, and that is how the internet was supplied. Plus its the easiest way to get into the secure network at work).
If I was paying out of my own pocket, I would not recommend this.
One button mouse is crap as well. You can emulate a right click by tapping with two fingers, but it sometimes doesn't work well with certain applications. I miss having a third button and pasting the highlighted buffer. Some keys are missing - no delete, only backspace. Loads of little quirks like this - you can work around but why should I need to?
Hardware wise it seems to work well though.And no real issues with Ubunutu recognising stuff.
Some other really annoying stuff like no HDMI, lack of ethernet port (who needs that you say? I did when I went to a boarding house in Germany, and that is how the internet was supplied. Plus its the easiest way to get into the secure network at work).
If I was paying out of my own pocket, I would not recommend this.
"One button mouse is crap as well"
Is this something to do with the driver, because the current Apple mice are not one button unless you call multi-touch that.
Also, is the "fn + delete" not mappable in Ubuntu as that is the OS X mapping for a real delete?
Is this something to do with the driver, because the current Apple mice are not one button unless you call multi-touch that.
Also, is the "fn + delete" not mappable in Ubuntu as that is the OS X mapping for a real delete?
No solution, but I share your hate for the new keyboards. Last I had to replace my laptop I went to a lot of trouble to buy refurbished gear just so I could get the old model.
I'm hoping that Lenovo gets their act together before my current one dies, but it is a pretty forlorn hope.
I'm hoping that Lenovo gets their act together before my current one dies, but it is a pretty forlorn hope.
So the new Thinkpad keyboard and trackpad are at least as crappy as the ones on the MBP/MBA (low-travel chicklet keys, annoying layout, and a single click-anywhere track surface that's painful to use with hi-dpi displays). I have a T520 (1080p) at home with the nice keyboard/trackpad and a newer T540p (3k) at work. Honestly, I'd still buy the T540p again if I had to. Get yourself a mouse, pay the extra $30 for the nice Intel wifi card, skip the second GPU, and sleep well knowing that you're not going to have hardware or driver issues. The same simply cannot be said about the MBP.
I have been looking at the T5XX line, but I just don't want something that large! I travel quite a bit and very much prefer a 13" max system. I have X220 right now and the X1 would have been perfect if they didn't completely screw it up.
OP here. X1 or X220 would be ideal machines if Lenovo engineers used their brains.
The X220 was really good. The only thing it needed was a better screen, a decent trackpad, and a slightly less noisy fan.
It got all those improvements, but they messed up with the case, introduced a ULV processor, limited the amount of RAM and upgradeability, botched the keyboard, and many more things.
The X220 was really good. The only thing it needed was a better screen, a decent trackpad, and a slightly less noisy fan.
It got all those improvements, but they messed up with the case, introduced a ULV processor, limited the amount of RAM and upgradeability, botched the keyboard, and many more things.
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I've tried that and failed. Few problems to expect: switchable graphics, external screens, crazy DPI, wifi drivers. For more details have a look at my blog entry: http://doppnet.com/2013/02/running-linux-on-2012-macbook-pro...
I've ended up going for Asus U500. It's good but not ideal.
I've ended up going for Asus U500. It's good but not ideal.
The only thing that doesn't work on my late 2013 13" MBPr (11,1) is the builtin webcam.
I just bought an Acer C720 chromebook as a second machine and am absolutely blown away by how nice it is for $200. You can run Ubuntu (with your choice of window manager) side by side ChromeOS with crouton, or completely replace ChromeOS with chrubuntu. There are some quirks if you try to replace ChromeOS, so IMHO stick with crouton and either xfce or unity.
The screen is low end, and the track pad nothing to write home about, but the battery life and portability are unbelievable--a true 8 hours of usage in a machine about 2.5 lbs. heavy. ChromeOS itself isn't bad for just using as a browser and then crouton to fill in the gaps of missing stuff like a good text editor, development tools, etc. Even with just the basic 2GB memory and 16gb SSD version I have no issues with memory or disk space (about 8gb free once a basic ubuntu + unity install is added).
I really can't say enough good things about this setup. I wouldn't use it exclusively as my only machine since 11" is kind of small, but as a second machine for portability or browsing the web it is fantastic.
The screen is low end, and the track pad nothing to write home about, but the battery life and portability are unbelievable--a true 8 hours of usage in a machine about 2.5 lbs. heavy. ChromeOS itself isn't bad for just using as a browser and then crouton to fill in the gaps of missing stuff like a good text editor, development tools, etc. Even with just the basic 2GB memory and 16gb SSD version I have no issues with memory or disk space (about 8gb free once a basic ubuntu + unity install is added).
I really can't say enough good things about this setup. I wouldn't use it exclusively as my only machine since 11" is kind of small, but as a second machine for portability or browsing the web it is fantastic.
It's weird neither on reddit nor here does anyone mention the HP laptops, I wrote it up on reddit so I will just give the tl;dr version here: the Zbook 14/Elitebook 840 G1 (same machine, different GPU) comes with Suse Linux, user replaceable everything, fairly decent keyboard and a full HD anti glare display. How come noone mentioned them?
I just got a Lenovo Thinkpad T540p with a 15" 2880x1620 display. Despite all the changes in this generation's Thinkpad line, I really like my purchase. The keyboard is very good and I'm okay with the trackpad, since I tap rather than click. I'm running XFCE, which works well for the most part with my HiDPI display. I've got Bumblebee installed to switch between my discrete Nvidia and Intel GPUs. For $1200 I got this amazing screen, Intel i5-4200M CPU, 4gb memory (added another 4gb), 500gb disk (swapped for SSD), dual band Intel wifi with support for AC, and 9 cell battery.
I would highly recommend Asus F202 laptop that has been my official work laptop (with my employer's) for over a year now. It's a single boot Arch Linux (removed Win 8). I work on Android (Eclipse) and embedded C / C++ (mostly vim and terminal, a little kdevelop). Two things that I love about Arch Linux that made me use it, first and the most important, rolling release and second, excellent docs and forums. Also, I've never had a driver issue.
The specs are good enough, i3 3rd gen, 4gb soldered RAM, 500gb, 11.6inch 1366x768 glossy touchscreen, 1.4kg. (It's like a budget macbook air).
No use for the touchscreen (it's more of a hinderance, when someone touches the screen while pointing out something). Two major essential that I needed for a laptop, small and lightweight, and non-reflective (put a matte screen guard which works great).
Highly recommended.
The specs are good enough, i3 3rd gen, 4gb soldered RAM, 500gb, 11.6inch 1366x768 glossy touchscreen, 1.4kg. (It's like a budget macbook air).
No use for the touchscreen (it's more of a hinderance, when someone touches the screen while pointing out something). Two major essential that I needed for a laptop, small and lightweight, and non-reflective (put a matte screen guard which works great).
Highly recommended.
My refurbished Dell XPS 15Z worked fine with Ubuntu however I do have to memorize a few commands for restarting the mouse driver, the network manager and the wifi. Which is fine to a point. At least I don't have to reboot when the mouse stops responding or when I cannot get online. However, if I used the Windows 7 I doubt I would have to do such things.
In my recent experience I think the complaints about driver issues are fairly historical.
There is also a hardware compatibility list thing on an Ubuntu somewhere that someone could theoretically check in advance. However, by the time you get to search and get to that list you are likely to be typing something like 'nvidia bumblebee dell xps 15z' into the Bing! search engine.
In my recent experience I think the complaints about driver issues are fairly historical.
There is also a hardware compatibility list thing on an Ubuntu somewhere that someone could theoretically check in advance. However, by the time you get to search and get to that list you are likely to be typing something like 'nvidia bumblebee dell xps 15z' into the Bing! search engine.
I am in the same boat - hoping some decent answers come up. I've been looking at a Thinkpad T440s and a MBP 13". The MBP seems a good choice (parallels?) but I don't like that there is no way to update my RAM.
I just got a 13'' MBP and put Linux on it. The hardware is great and well supported, but you'll still have a bit of a hard time getting the boot in order.
I tried to fully wipe out the OSX partition, which I ended up reinstalling just to get the `bless` command back so I could boot off the drive. Ugh. So it is setup to dual boot now with Refit.
I am quite happy with it otherwise.
I'm not sure how Linux will look with a Retina display, though. That's why I stuck with the non-Retina 13''. The hi-dpi support in Linux desktops is pretty awful.
I tried to fully wipe out the OSX partition, which I ended up reinstalling just to get the `bless` command back so I could boot off the drive. Ugh. So it is setup to dual boot now with Refit.
I am quite happy with it otherwise.
I'm not sure how Linux will look with a Retina display, though. That's why I stuck with the non-Retina 13''. The hi-dpi support in Linux desktops is pretty awful.
I single boot Linux on my 13" MBP retina. I use xmonad+xfce and it can be tuned to work reasonably well with Hi-DPI. There are still some things that don't work great (chrome), but it certainly can be done.
My big problem is that there is no support for different DPI settings for multiple monitors. This is quite unfortunate and keeps me from using the full resolution on the laptop's display. Right now I run the laptop display at 1680x1050 (still quite a bit higher than the non-retina 13"), which plays nicely with my 27" monitor at 2560x1440.
Besides the display issues, Linux runs great on the MBP retina (late 2013 MacBookPro11,1). Things run more smoothly than my last Macbook (a mid 2010 13" MacBookPro7,1) which had occasional wifi and suspend/resume nvidia issues. The only thing that I can think of that doesn't work is the builtin webcam, which was switched from USB to PCI-E and doesn't have a linux driver yet.
My big problem is that there is no support for different DPI settings for multiple monitors. This is quite unfortunate and keeps me from using the full resolution on the laptop's display. Right now I run the laptop display at 1680x1050 (still quite a bit higher than the non-retina 13"), which plays nicely with my 27" monitor at 2560x1440.
Besides the display issues, Linux runs great on the MBP retina (late 2013 MacBookPro11,1). Things run more smoothly than my last Macbook (a mid 2010 13" MacBookPro7,1) which had occasional wifi and suspend/resume nvidia issues. The only thing that I can think of that doesn't work is the builtin webcam, which was switched from USB to PCI-E and doesn't have a linux driver yet.
I'm experimenting with xrandr's --scale option for this problem. For my external monitor with a native resolution of 2560x1600, I can run "xrandr --output DP3 --panning 5120x3200 --scale 2.0x2.0" to have it act as a 5120x3200 pixel display which is then downscaled to fit the screen. This makes the hidpi-rendered stuff appear at normal sizes on that screen.
Interesting. I'll have to give that a try.
Wayland is supposed actually to fix this but its a little depressing how long we'll have to wait for that.
Wayland is supposed actually to fix this but its a little depressing how long we'll have to wait for that.
How does the battery life compare between OSX and Linux?
When I last ran Linux on Mac hardware (several years ago), it was a pretty disappointingly large gap.
When I last ran Linux on Mac hardware (several years ago), it was a pretty disappointingly large gap.
Doesn't surprise me at all, it's one of the main selling points for Apple.
It's fine on my laptop (Arch Linux), same as in Windows, but with an i7, GTX 660M and no optimus, and a 15.6" screen there's not much power to save.
It's fine on my laptop (Arch Linux), same as in Windows, but with an i7, GTX 660M and no optimus, and a 15.6" screen there's not much power to save.
Out of the box it is not great, but it can be tweaked to get more. Mine is plugged in most of the time, so it's not a big deal for me (and is still much more than I get on most PCs).
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I dual boot Ubuntu 13.04 and OSX on my 13" rMBP. The hi-dpi issue really doesn't bother me at all. (I run the display at 1680x1050 - the only thing that shows up really tiny is the splash screen)
The install was easy enough. Setting up refit was pretty easy. The only slightly complicated issue was putting the wifi and other proprietary drivers on a thumb drive because the rMBP doesn't have an ethernet port.
My only gripe with this setup is, because I run it about 60% OSX/40% Ubuntu, is that I'm really only happy in Ubuntu when I have a USB mouse plugged in. I haven't figured out how to make ctrl-click equal right click and I'm one of those who likes to two finger scroll inverted (like an iPad), but use the scroll wheel on a mouse in the traditional direction. If anyone has figured out a magic solution to MBP trackpads in Linux, I'd love to hear it.
The install was easy enough. Setting up refit was pretty easy. The only slightly complicated issue was putting the wifi and other proprietary drivers on a thumb drive because the rMBP doesn't have an ethernet port.
My only gripe with this setup is, because I run it about 60% OSX/40% Ubuntu, is that I'm really only happy in Ubuntu when I have a USB mouse plugged in. I haven't figured out how to make ctrl-click equal right click and I'm one of those who likes to two finger scroll inverted (like an iPad), but use the scroll wheel on a mouse in the traditional direction. If anyone has figured out a magic solution to MBP trackpads in Linux, I'd love to hear it.
I'm not sure about the cntl-click. A Google shows a bunch of different options that may work but can't check them out today. But for scrolling you might try the advice here:
http://linuxg.net/enable-horizontal-and-natural-scrolling-in...
It looks like the GUI shows options for both devices, but the settings are split between trackpad and device. So it may do what you want.
I attempted Linux on a Chromebook Pixel and it was miserable, which is why I had shied away from the Retina. :-)
It looks like the GUI shows options for both devices, but the settings are split between trackpad and device. So it may do what you want.
I attempted Linux on a Chromebook Pixel and it was miserable, which is why I had shied away from the Retina. :-)
I'm using a 13" retina MBP with Kubuntu, and I wouldn't describe the hidpi support as awful.
You need to make sure that X has the right DPI setting and additionally make some explicit adjustments like resizing the mouse cursor and choosing big icons for everything. Once that is set right, KDE programs work nicely. Some non-KDE programs (such as Spotify) are rendered pixel by pixel the same as on a regular/low dpi screen.
So there are some glitches, but for day to day use it is absolutely workable :)
You need to make sure that X has the right DPI setting and additionally make some explicit adjustments like resizing the mouse cursor and choosing big icons for everything. Once that is set right, KDE programs work nicely. Some non-KDE programs (such as Spotify) are rendered pixel by pixel the same as on a regular/low dpi screen.
So there are some glitches, but for day to day use it is absolutely workable :)
Pretty good HiDPI support is coming to Ubuntu in 14.04. I've been running the dev and it is pretty good, though not perfect. I wouldn't have a problem getting a HiDPI screen with 14.04.
The version of XFCE in 13.10 works well in HiDPI (15" 2880x1620 on my T540p).
refit has been abandonded, but work contiues on a fork called refind.
http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/
http://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/
Right now I am very into Dell's Precision notebooks. Rock solid hardware with official Ubuntu support.
+1 For the Dell Precision, although it's very much a 'portable workstation' rather than a truly mobile laptop. Think of it as something you will use with a docking station in place of a full tower.
Also, you'll probably want to know about this fix: http://askubuntu.com/questions/50491/detect-touchpad-as-touc...
Also, you'll probably want to know about this fix: http://askubuntu.com/questions/50491/detect-touchpad-as-touc...
Dell Precision machines are other worldly (hope Dell doesn't go under, got an M4700 for development and a couple of R610s in colo, yelp).
Linux support for PC laptops should be pretty decent across the board these days, IMO. Will require some tweaking for things like trackball and trackpad, but otherwise basic system functionality should be there out of the box.
Linux support for PC laptops should be pretty decent across the board these days, IMO. Will require some tweaking for things like trackball and trackpad, but otherwise basic system functionality should be there out of the box.
For all the Linux people who rule out a laptop because of wifi drivers - please get a Linux supported USB wifi dongle for $10.
Having a dongle is annoying. I need something small that can go everywhere with me, that will fit in my small-ish bag that I can quickly pull out and do stuff with. A dongle gets in the way.
If I knew my current ThinkPad required proprietary wifi drivers I wouldn't have bought it.
If I knew my current ThinkPad required proprietary wifi drivers I wouldn't have bought it.
Not to mention it consumes a precious USB slot.
If you want to be sure it runs Linux well (includes all the niceness like keyboard lights etc) go with something like https://www.system76.com/ who construct everything to work well with Linux.
I'm going to replicate the comment I made on the reddit thread here:
Strongly recommend against [System76]
1) They only test against one version of ubuntu, and they seem to patch the acpi bios specifically for that one, so good luck changing distros or versions.
2) Their bios has fun bugs, like how my serp7 (Serval Professional) turns itself off after 20 minutes on battery because it thinks it's about to die, even though the battery itself thinks otherwise. (It's not happening at the OS level, I already have that part configured correctly, it's the bios coordinating with the EC itself).
3) They don't bother to actually hook up the acpi bios correctly, so many of the generic acpi platform functions (e.g. get_brightness/_BQC and set_brightness/_BCM) don't work correctly. Instead, they rely on (going back to #1) the platform map that Seems To Work As Detected except that it's detected as something similar, but not correct. I had a bunch of things break on kernel upgrade due to the mapping having a bugfix to make it work correctly for the hardware it was intended for, which made it work incorrectly for the serp7 that was squatting on it.
4) When I called support about #3, their answer was "reinstall the ubuntu version it shipped with and try again." I asked for enough documentation to actually solve the problem- I intended to implement a system76-specific acpi driver (think "thinkpad_acpi.ko"); I was informed that that information was proprietary and would not be released under any circumstances.
5) These laptops are fragile. My company bought three different system76s (on my recommendation, ugh) and of those, only mine still works.
Strongly recommend against [System76]
1) They only test against one version of ubuntu, and they seem to patch the acpi bios specifically for that one, so good luck changing distros or versions.
2) Their bios has fun bugs, like how my serp7 (Serval Professional) turns itself off after 20 minutes on battery because it thinks it's about to die, even though the battery itself thinks otherwise. (It's not happening at the OS level, I already have that part configured correctly, it's the bios coordinating with the EC itself).
3) They don't bother to actually hook up the acpi bios correctly, so many of the generic acpi platform functions (e.g. get_brightness/_BQC and set_brightness/_BCM) don't work correctly. Instead, they rely on (going back to #1) the platform map that Seems To Work As Detected except that it's detected as something similar, but not correct. I had a bunch of things break on kernel upgrade due to the mapping having a bugfix to make it work correctly for the hardware it was intended for, which made it work incorrectly for the serp7 that was squatting on it.
4) When I called support about #3, their answer was "reinstall the ubuntu version it shipped with and try again." I asked for enough documentation to actually solve the problem- I intended to implement a system76-specific acpi driver (think "thinkpad_acpi.ko"); I was informed that that information was proprietary and would not be released under any circumstances.
5) These laptops are fragile. My company bought three different system76s (on my recommendation, ugh) and of those, only mine still works.
if you want to go linux or open source based, i would recommend thinkpenguin, https://www.thinkpenguin.com/catalog/notebook-computers-gnu-...
great customer service, and the computers hang together. amazing bang for the buck too, like mac.
i've had my hands on about 4 models of theirs. 1 had an unusable keyboard (flimsy + sticky spacebar), one had a very unpleasant trackpad, but beyond that it's been a beautiful experience from keyboard/trackpad to overall system performance to battery life to weight to, again, power for your dollar.
if i weren't happy with my thinkpad w520 (and my work 13' MBA) i'd grab a snares from thinkpenguin (or contact them and see what other models they may be able to hook me up with).
great customer service, and the computers hang together. amazing bang for the buck too, like mac.
i've had my hands on about 4 models of theirs. 1 had an unusable keyboard (flimsy + sticky spacebar), one had a very unpleasant trackpad, but beyond that it's been a beautiful experience from keyboard/trackpad to overall system performance to battery life to weight to, again, power for your dollar.
if i weren't happy with my thinkpad w520 (and my work 13' MBA) i'd grab a snares from thinkpenguin (or contact them and see what other models they may be able to hook me up with).
I bought a Kudu recently. Very nice machine, with a great keyboard for a laptop. Only complaint is the trackpad's pretty fiddly. From what I've seen online, trackpad drivers tend to be problematic on Linux in general.
The X1 Carbon (or any x/t series thinkpad really) is by far the best choice you can make for a linux laptop. The hardware support is 100% and they are the only ones, hardware quality wise, that are close to or at Apple's level.
The dells and the acers are junk.
The dells and the acers are junk.
I'd be interested to hear from anyone running linux (preferably Ubuntu) on a Dell XPS 13. While most reviews I've found have been positive, there have been some complaints of fan noise and heat.
I've been running Ubuntu 13.10 on an 2012 XPS 13 for a while now. The only time I have noticed that the laptop runs hot is when I have it in my lap, because it's pretty easy to cover up the fan inlets on a non-uniform surface. On a flat surface I haven't had any issues though.
Overall I really like it for web development. Everything I've tried works out of the box (volume control, brightness, webcam, etc) with Ubuntu. Before that I was running Arch, with limited success in getting brightness and resume from suspend to work.
Overall I really like it for web development. Everything I've tried works out of the box (volume control, brightness, webcam, etc) with Ubuntu. Before that I was running Arch, with limited success in getting brightness and resume from suspend to work.
I feel like almost any laptop will work with Linux. Most just happen to come pre-installed with Windows.
I find that's not necessarily true. Laptops have a more diverse set of hardware, so things like sleep/hibernation sometimes don't work out of the box.
Configuring the drivers for some hardware can be a huge pain, or require being quite an expert user. Wireless cards are usually the worst, in my experience.
Can't beat the Thinkpads. They're awesome and have excellent Linux driver support.
If you're OK with running in a chroot, chromebooks and chromeboxes have great support.
I'm the market and I test drove the XPS 13, which was very good. That being said, I've had HORRIBLE customer service experience with Dell in the past.
I'm in the market for a new laptop here very soon and I can't honestly think of a reason not to get a MacBook Pro w/ Retina and just throw Ubuntu on it. I know there are issues with the boot order, but seems like most of those are solved now.
Anyone have experience with recent MBP w/ Ubuntu?