New platform for fucking with Debt Collectors(bukit.co)
bukit.co
New platform for fucking with Debt Collectors
http://bukit.co/
Just launching a new platform, it will probably break if you use it. Try it and tell me how it goes. The Freemium is useless but if you want basic just sign up (with credit card) and I will give it to you free for life...seriously.
22 comments
In case you are wondering why we crashed- it turns out that YESTERDAY Amazon changed their policy on npms and they no longer support self signed certificates. FML, but hopefully this might help other people avoid a crash
http://blog.npmjs.org/post/78085451721/npms-self-signed-cert...
http://blog.npmjs.org/post/78085451721/npms-self-signed-cert...
Apparently there's a workaround:
http://blog.npmjs.org/post/78085451721/npms-self-signed-cert...
http://blog.npmjs.org/post/78085451721/npms-self-signed-cert...
I already checked that and it won't work for my platform but I am sure there will be a workaround soon.
Perhaps "fucking with debt collectors" is not the best way to phrase this. At first I was left disliking the existence a service that claimed to try to fuck with people (or companies) that are just trying to collect the money they are owed. They are not in the wrong... people in default are. (Even in situations were shit happens and you're behind... the fact remains that you owe someone money and they aim to collect it.) But it seems the service is meant to help both sides.
EDIT: I also understand the collectors can be very invasive and annoying. But think about how you would be if someone owed you $5k. Would you just ping them once a month or would you be a little bit in their face trying to get your money?
EDIT: I also understand the collectors can be very invasive and annoying. But think about how you would be if someone owed you $5k. Would you just ping them once a month or would you be a little bit in their face trying to get your money?
I've been on both sides, but on balance I'd say I have relatively little sympathy for industries that (a) consider "product innovation" to consist mostly of designing contracts that will trick consumers and (b) regularly lobby to change the rules governing bankruptcy, financial procedures, bank transfers, fees, etc. There are multiple industries that may be so described. Perhaps someday software will eat the world, but finance already has.
not to be cliche, but its just a system and it can be disrupted.
I've faced two situations involving collectors: In one, I had forgotten to pay a bill in a timely manner. In the other, the bill was BS and the former landlord who sent it to collections was breaking a number of related laws (such as double-dipping).
In both cases, the default behavior of the debt collectors was to... break the law. The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act exists for a reason and its only peoples' ignorance of it that allows the grotesque tactics they employ to continue unabated.
(BTW: The $100 bill I forgot about? I promptly paid it once I was reminded of it. The $5,300 the landlord claimed I owed? That went away the moment I pointed out I had proof of their malfeasance.)
"Just doing their jobs" is not an excuse for bad behavior, ever.
In both cases, the default behavior of the debt collectors was to... break the law. The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act exists for a reason and its only peoples' ignorance of it that allows the grotesque tactics they employ to continue unabated.
(BTW: The $100 bill I forgot about? I promptly paid it once I was reminded of it. The $5,300 the landlord claimed I owed? That went away the moment I pointed out I had proof of their malfeasance.)
"Just doing their jobs" is not an excuse for bad behavior, ever.
Of course. Anyone violating The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act should be punished. Also, anyone who owes someone money should pay it. If there is a dispute over the validity of a debt, there is a provision in The FDCP Act to handle that. Everyone should be held to the rules equally.
And my point is that the default behavior of both collectors -- the behavior from the very first word of their first call -- was in violation, and they continued to violate the law in numerous ways.
If an entire industry is so systematically rotten that good behavior (read: compliance with the law) is the exception rather than the norm, what is one to do?
For example, if the debt collector does not provide any written notice and refuses to provide an address to which one can mail a written notice of dispute, what is one to do?
If the debt is intrinsically fraudulent, and the "validation" of the debt consists solely of confirming its veracity with the party committing fraud, what is one to do?
If one tries to dispute a fraudulent claim when speaking to a debt collector on the phone and one is told "I don't fucking care, if you don't give me a goddamn credit card number right fucking now I'm going to garnish your wages and fucking destroy your credit!", what is one to do?
And don't tell me that I should complain to the FTC -- since there was no written communication, and I couldn't identify the parties involved, they were unable/unwilling/uninterested in helping me.
At this point I have no sympathy for debt collectors. The very best of them are preying upon people who are already in a bad position and that's being generous.
I'm almost tempted to be late on a bill or two just so I can use this service (whatever it may be -- still can't access it) in an attempt to discourage these vermin from continuing in their chosen "profession".
If an entire industry is so systematically rotten that good behavior (read: compliance with the law) is the exception rather than the norm, what is one to do?
For example, if the debt collector does not provide any written notice and refuses to provide an address to which one can mail a written notice of dispute, what is one to do?
If the debt is intrinsically fraudulent, and the "validation" of the debt consists solely of confirming its veracity with the party committing fraud, what is one to do?
If one tries to dispute a fraudulent claim when speaking to a debt collector on the phone and one is told "I don't fucking care, if you don't give me a goddamn credit card number right fucking now I'm going to garnish your wages and fucking destroy your credit!", what is one to do?
And don't tell me that I should complain to the FTC -- since there was no written communication, and I couldn't identify the parties involved, they were unable/unwilling/uninterested in helping me.
At this point I have no sympathy for debt collectors. The very best of them are preying upon people who are already in a bad position and that's being generous.
I'm almost tempted to be late on a bill or two just so I can use this service (whatever it may be -- still can't access it) in an attempt to discourage these vermin from continuing in their chosen "profession".
The collection agencies violate laws as a standard practice and most people don't understand their rights or have the tools to advocate for themselves.
The version of BUKIT now is a minimal viable product but with time I plan on adding in more features to help make reporting, disputing and suing easier.
The version of BUKIT now is a minimal viable product but with time I plan on adding in more features to help make reporting, disputing and suing easier.
The law doesn't really set a high bar for debt validation, tbh. Good points here though. I hope to be able to solve them.
The service is meant to help both sides- the creditors and the people in debt, but the collection agencies are just guns for hire and VERY abusive.
So my goal is to try and take them out, but it is ultimately to everyone's benefit.
So my goal is to try and take them out, but it is ultimately to everyone's benefit.
... except the collection agencies -- but good riddance to them.
EXACTLy- they are an expensive and abusive middle man and it is time to take them out.
Just saw your edit- and the reality is that when people don't have money, or intend to jack someone, chasing after them usually doesn't work. that said, I do feel for people who get stiffed.
But for my company, it is not really addressing loans or debts between people on a small scale but a trillion dollar defaulted debt market where large funds buy debt and then hire agencies to collect. For the funds, its not about what was owed, it is about return on investment.
But for my company, it is not really addressing loans or debts between people on a small scale but a trillion dollar defaulted debt market where large funds buy debt and then hire agencies to collect. For the funds, its not about what was owed, it is about return on investment.
Companies buy and sell debt a lot. Defaulted debt is still debt. It is a riskier buy and probably comes at a discount. But it is still one company paying another company and assuming the debt collection process. In the case of my mortgages that have been sold numerous times, there is little (or no) risk to the buyer since the payment history is sound and the account is in good standing. They don't need to harass me. They just send me a nice letter telling me where to direct my payment going forward. For defaulted debt, of course there is a risk. They are dealing with people that have already shown they are not [able|willing] to pay. But I don't see any difference between the company that bought my mortgage and the company that bought my neighbor's defaulted mortgage[1]. Although the one might have to get a little more aggressive to get my neighbor to pay up. None of this changes the reality that my neighbor owes money to someone who wants very badly to collect it.
[1] I'll admit that mortgages probably are not handled in the same way as other debt but that was the only high $$ debt I could think of... and it sounds like we're not talking about skipping out on a $100 cable bill here. Perhaps we're talking more about charging $20k on a Visa and then not paying. Feel free to substitute any other example where one person pays their debt and the other does not.
[1] I'll admit that mortgages probably are not handled in the same way as other debt but that was the only high $$ debt I could think of... and it sounds like we're not talking about skipping out on a $100 cable bill here. Perhaps we're talking more about charging $20k on a Visa and then not paying. Feel free to substitute any other example where one person pays their debt and the other does not.
"more aggressive"? So you feel bullying and abusive tactics are justifiable means of collecting a debt.
That's pretty fucked up.
That's pretty fucked up.
Not paying your debt is pretty fucked up too.
Stop and think about this for a second: If someone intends to not pay, abusive language isn't going to change their minds.
If someone cannot pay, then abusive language has no value either because, well, they cannot pay.
The only case where abusive language is beneficial is if someone is actively trying to pay down their bills, but they have more bills than they can pay all at once and a debt collector wants to get their bill paid before every other debt collector's bill. And gee, that's exactly what happens when someone loses their job / suffers a major medical crisis / etc.
tl;dr: Abusive behavior is useless if someone is NOT going to pay their bills, and only does anything if someone is TRYING to pay their bills: It's a means for collectors to try and jump the line to get their own debt paid first.
And frankly, anyone who thinks that two wrongs make a right is a terrible person.
If someone cannot pay, then abusive language has no value either because, well, they cannot pay.
The only case where abusive language is beneficial is if someone is actively trying to pay down their bills, but they have more bills than they can pay all at once and a debt collector wants to get their bill paid before every other debt collector's bill. And gee, that's exactly what happens when someone loses their job / suffers a major medical crisis / etc.
tl;dr: Abusive behavior is useless if someone is NOT going to pay their bills, and only does anything if someone is TRYING to pay their bills: It's a means for collectors to try and jump the line to get their own debt paid first.
And frankly, anyone who thinks that two wrongs make a right is a terrible person.
I never said two wrongs make a right. Both are wrong and that just makes two wrong... nothing right. Both are equally fucked up. So why do we villainize only one?
Because the group not being demonized are mostly comprised of people who are trying their best but in circumstances that make it impossible to live up to their obligations and the group being demonized are mostly comprised of people who are breaking the law.
Sorry everyone, site is still down. I'll go for the cliche and try and turn this crisis into opportunity...
My situation is this- I live in Israel and my programmer who built the site is in the Army and unreachable. I've been coding but I really just have skills that are "programmer adjacent."
I need to build my tech team so if this excites you and you have skills- (site is built in node.js and hosted on Amazon) please contact me through the email address in the executive summary.
My situation is this- I live in Israel and my programmer who built the site is in the Army and unreachable. I've been coding but I really just have skills that are "programmer adjacent."
I need to build my tech team so if this excites you and you have skills- (site is built in node.js and hosted on Amazon) please contact me through the email address in the executive summary.
I'd love to take a look, but the page isn't being served. Or at least it's taking more than 5 minutes to load. Anyone have an executive summary?
Did you read the executive summary? any thoughts...
I have an executive summary, where should I send it? try to refresh www.bukit.co . I just checked and it's not loading for me so I am going to go into the servers and check what's going on, it was working a few minutes ago.
Post it here. I'm guessing not only peeters would like to read it.
Will do. It's too bad slide rocket closed down, I used to have all of my decks there and it was easy to share.
I'm getting nothing but a 503 error.
site crashed from too much traffic, should be up soon
Maybe f*cking with the debt collectors involves sending them to that page?
$25/month and especially $100/month seems a bit steep for people who are so much in debt they have to manage their debt collectors.
I am flexible about the price, I'd love to do it for free... Most people pay about $100 per month to an attorney to do the same thing so I tried to make it affordable.
I am also adding in a "free4ever" coupon. It's just not up yet
Not necessarily.
Debt isn't just college students and poor folk. Job loss, divorce, health issues, etc can easily put you in a situation where the bills fall behind and you have a cash flow crunch, but you're not destitute.
I had a friend in a situation like this, and managing the various deals (payment arrangements, forgiveness programs, deadlines, etc) was very difficult. Paying $50/mo to manage this stuff would have saved her lots of money in fees and interest.
Debt isn't just college students and poor folk. Job loss, divorce, health issues, etc can easily put you in a situation where the bills fall behind and you have a cash flow crunch, but you're not destitute.
I had a friend in a situation like this, and managing the various deals (payment arrangements, forgiveness programs, deadlines, etc) was very difficult. Paying $50/mo to manage this stuff would have saved her lots of money in fees and interest.
Thanks Spooky23, I spent a lot of time working with people on one one so I know how much people are paying- and how much money people are losing because they aren't dealing with the issue.
For a lot of people, it's worth it just to have the peace of mind that a collection agency will never call them again.
For a lot of people, it's worth it just to have the peace of mind that a collection agency will never call them again.
Spooky23 is also right because we've done a lot of research and most people in debt are 25-44 working, educated, and upwardly mobile (if they weren't being dragged down by debt) usually they got into debt because of job loss or medical crisis.
To the founder -- show it off here: http://consumers.creditnet.com/Discussions/forum.php
if you havent already.
Haven't yet- will do. It's still kind of rough so I'm trying to get some feedback before I really publicize.
Site looks good, apart from the video on the right, which looks kinda wonky. Maybe it's just the initial frame (can't watch it right now) but it looks kinda WordArt-ish. Also, "join us, we're disrupting" sounds like a job advert, not a product proposition.
I love the idea though, and I wish you the greatest of success.
EDIT: could also do with some kind of tagline in the page title, unless that's not the done thing in SEOland anymore.
I love the idea though, and I wish you the greatest of success.
EDIT: could also do with some kind of tagline in the page title, unless that's not the done thing in SEOland anymore.
Let me know when you watch it- I definitely need a new one. I am working on an instruction video now. Something more personal.
I can add a tagline in the page title. Great suggestion- and I'll ask a friend who does SEO about it
I can add a tagline in the page title. Great suggestion- and I'll ask a friend who does SEO about it
I've known the founder since the start and she's the real deal
Thanks Alan!!! Nice to see you here
How about screwing with credit bureaus instead? They are an order of magnitude worse than the debt collectors.
IMO, they are going to be screwed anyway. There are MUCH better systems of measuring people's credit worthiness. I looking forward to future tech slaying them completely.
Also, if I am able to fully execute the vision for BUKIT. It will screw with the credit bureaus bonus
Also, if I am able to fully execute the vision for BUKIT. It will screw with the credit bureaus bonus
Just in case some of you are wondering who I am- my name is Sarah Nadav, this is my linkedin profile http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=17064747&trk=nav_res...
and my twitter handle is @sarahnadav
and my twitter handle is @sarahnadav
Still working on the servers- here is a link to the executive summary https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c4STqhM8PxcqNOoAMcjyFnXm...
The site is not working :/ try to fix it because HN is a great opportunity for exposure.
I am on a chat with the Amazon support team to get this back up. It's set to scale to users but not this fast apparently.
Problem is fixed and site is back up http://bukit.co/
The patch was fixed with Amazon and www.bukit.co is up and running. I look forward to your feedback.
Just FYI- everything is back up except the SSL certificate so be aware. Should be fixed soon.
Never posted here before, how should I upload an executive summary? What is the best way?
I don't get it - consumers pay you to send a cease and desist letter for them?
Love the spirit of it.
thanks! Just trying to create a platform that will help people know their rights and use them. Feedback is greatly appreciated :)
Waiting for it to come back up. HN effect :).
Best.Problem.Ever!!!
Indeed :). On which type of instance are you running it on?
I am running it on elasticbeanstalk in Amazon. It should scale but the traffic showed a bug in an ebextension file
no longer best problem ever sigh, site still not up
hey Everyone! Congrats- the traffic has crashed the site :) I am going into the server now and fixing it
great idea, im surprised this does not already exist
Mission was to create something that people needed, and should exist.