Ask HN: Is Apple going downhill?
12 comments
The MacBook Pro used to be an easily upgradable device which was a great choice for developers. It had superb build quality and you could easily develop for Mac, Windows, Linux, Web, iOS and Android on a single machine without too much messing about.
I walked out of the store in 2009 with a device where you undid a few screws and the whole back came off giving easy access to upgrade ram, hard drive, replace dvd, fan or battery. My first stop was to buy a bigger hard drive and double my memory with reasonably priced commodity parts. Replacing my battery when it ran out was cheap and trivially easy.
I look at the new MacBooks and the RAM is soldered, the SDD is proprietary, the battery is glued in place. I don't know if they have gone downhill but they have certainly alienated some customers and forced them to look elsewhere. If you aren't looking to develop for the Apple ecosystem I think the justification for buying a MBP has diminished considerably.
I walked out of the store in 2009 with a device where you undid a few screws and the whole back came off giving easy access to upgrade ram, hard drive, replace dvd, fan or battery. My first stop was to buy a bigger hard drive and double my memory with reasonably priced commodity parts. Replacing my battery when it ran out was cheap and trivially easy.
I look at the new MacBooks and the RAM is soldered, the SDD is proprietary, the battery is glued in place. I don't know if they have gone downhill but they have certainly alienated some customers and forced them to look elsewhere. If you aren't looking to develop for the Apple ecosystem I think the justification for buying a MBP has diminished considerably.
Maybe you do need a Steve Jobs around after all to yell at people so that the software is any good.
Apple had one in Scott Forstall and Tim Cook fired him, in the name of furthering "collaboration" at the executive level (whatever that means). IMO that was the singular event that defines Apple in the Tim Cook era.
My take is that Cook intends to coast at Apple until his 10 years are up, managing operations well but not taking any risks, and removing anyone who would take risks. It's an acceptable strategy, but it's just not what we're used to from Apple.
So, like another commenter said, I agree that it's mostly an expectations problem. It's not just that Steve Jobs and Scott Forstall are gone, it's that Apple, under Tim Cook's direction, has made a conscious decision to be a different kind of company.
Apple had one in Scott Forstall and Tim Cook fired him, in the name of furthering "collaboration" at the executive level (whatever that means). IMO that was the singular event that defines Apple in the Tim Cook era.
My take is that Cook intends to coast at Apple until his 10 years are up, managing operations well but not taking any risks, and removing anyone who would take risks. It's an acceptable strategy, but it's just not what we're used to from Apple.
So, like another commenter said, I agree that it's mostly an expectations problem. It's not just that Steve Jobs and Scott Forstall are gone, it's that Apple, under Tim Cook's direction, has made a conscious decision to be a different kind of company.
In fairness, I don't ever recall hearing anyone say "iTunes sure is a fine piece of software"
Yes. I saw quality slipping last year around hardware and software when I dealt with a lot of different items from Apple.
The perspective also depends on how you look at your devices and the timeframe of expected use. Apple equipment used to be the kinds of devices you could have in production for many years. But, they are really now much more a consumer device company and part of the device churn. If this is acceptable to you (as a user) then you probably don't care because you will just skip the next hardware revision and get the one after (timed with some sort of Apple software obsolesce incentive) and be fine.
Last year around this time, I wrote this:
http://mergy.org/2012/12/irecognition-i-am-no-longer-apples-...
But then Lloyd Chambers did a detailed piece on the decline here:
http://macperformanceguide.com/AppleCoreRot-intro.html
But there are many more examples before me and others. Before the holy war kicks-in, I think it really is an expectation thing.
The perspective also depends on how you look at your devices and the timeframe of expected use. Apple equipment used to be the kinds of devices you could have in production for many years. But, they are really now much more a consumer device company and part of the device churn. If this is acceptable to you (as a user) then you probably don't care because you will just skip the next hardware revision and get the one after (timed with some sort of Apple software obsolesce incentive) and be fine.
Last year around this time, I wrote this:
http://mergy.org/2012/12/irecognition-i-am-no-longer-apples-...
But then Lloyd Chambers did a detailed piece on the decline here:
http://macperformanceguide.com/AppleCoreRot-intro.html
But there are many more examples before me and others. Before the holy war kicks-in, I think it really is an expectation thing.
I have noticed a drop in stability and quality recently. I personally have never owned an apple product, I only use Linux, but I do need to interact with iDevices fairly frequently and some little areas of quality are slipping.
The apple TV we use in the office for playing music has not worked correctly since the last firmware update and really struggles with streaming and the new MBP we purchased recently had a bug where the keyboard and mouse would randomly stop working(fixed in an update). These aren't huge problems but I think they are not something that would have occurred a few years ago.
That being said if you don't want to make the switch to linux then the apple/unix ecosystem is still much better than the current windows options but I think apple is losing its reputation for quality as it moves from being a high end luxury product to a standard.
The apple TV we use in the office for playing music has not worked correctly since the last firmware update and really struggles with streaming and the new MBP we purchased recently had a bug where the keyboard and mouse would randomly stop working(fixed in an update). These aren't huge problems but I think they are not something that would have occurred a few years ago.
That being said if you don't want to make the switch to linux then the apple/unix ecosystem is still much better than the current windows options but I think apple is losing its reputation for quality as it moves from being a high end luxury product to a standard.
i'm probably one of a handful of people with this opinion but I actually see Apple accelerating away from the competition. with the latest product cycle they are innovating on multiple fronts, the integration is becoming really compelling, and their competitors are probably already a year+ behind. Apple hardware are museum-quality pieces of art that clunkers like Samsung/Dell can never hope to compete with. their software has been lacking, but Mavericks and iOS 7 was a huge step in the right direction. I think the one area they're losing in right now is telling their story.
I like apple. I still buy their products, but I do not think that I am a fanboy. I recently bought their new Ipad Air and it has been great. But to me it is "just an ipad"... meaning, if something truly awesome came out to replace it, I may consider that option as well.
It just seems like they really have not created anything recently that has really "wowed" me. Maybe they put the bar too high for the wow factor.
It just seems like they really have not created anything recently that has really "wowed" me. Maybe they put the bar too high for the wow factor.
Apple follows trends - leaves other users behind.
They've done that for years, Remember when they produced lots of cool computers with a broad delection great business and productivity software? Well, not so much anymore as they first shifted focus to iPod, then to iPhone then iPad.
Doesn’t just happen with Apple though, every company is just as fickle just you don’t know it because you probably don’t use their product lines. Though I think a lot of PC users are feeling similar pain with Microsoft's marketing of Windows 8 which is a great departure from more productivity friendly version of Windows of the past.
They've done that for years, Remember when they produced lots of cool computers with a broad delection great business and productivity software? Well, not so much anymore as they first shifted focus to iPod, then to iPhone then iPad.
Doesn’t just happen with Apple though, every company is just as fickle just you don’t know it because you probably don’t use their product lines. Though I think a lot of PC users are feeling similar pain with Microsoft's marketing of Windows 8 which is a great departure from more productivity friendly version of Windows of the past.
I'm very impressed with my new iPhone 5C but it has a major flaw... the plastic back is slippy as hell! I've dropped it like 10 times in the last week so ended up having to buy a case. At no point during testing did it slip out of someones hand?
Apple is flatlining. They are staying consistent with new product updates and still are competitive in their markets. I don't see much growth if any, though. So no, Apple is not going downhill.
Apple will always have a niche market. It's history shows that it goes mainstream only for a little while. Apple vs Microsoft in the previous decade and now Apple vs Google.
Apple is "made in ______"
Complete the puzzle and here's the answer.
Complete the puzzle and here's the answer.
Uh, didn't they make a huge deal about moving some of their manufacturing back to the US a while back?
china
I've been an ardent Apple supporter since the first iPod came out and I've always loved Apple. But recently, it just seems like things are not getting better, the quality is really slipping.
Maybe you do need a Steve Jobs around after all to yell at people so that the software is any good.