No, 37Signals, Planning Is Not What You Think(timberry.bplans.com)
timberry.bplans.com
No, 37Signals, Planning Is Not What You Think
http://timberry.bplans.com/2009/06/no-37signals-planning-is-not-what-you-think.html
8 comments
Nicely deconstructed. They're definitely using SEO on a deeper level.
That's not SEO (Search Engine Optimization). That's SEM (Search Engine Marketing) aka link-building/trolling/link-baiting/viral marketing... whatever you want to call it, it's about putting compelling content on your site that gets passed along on its own merits attracting links.
SEO is done on-site and is a process of organizing your information architecture so it is search-engine-friendly, and then creating content that is relevant to your target market. That way you can get indexed for the terms you want, so that you appear on SERPs (Search Engine Results Page) exposing you to your target market at their time of need.
Once that's done, SEM begins which is about attracting off site links that get you ranked high on those SERPs so you get traffic. (There's another side of SEM that's about PPC.)
SEO and SEM go hand-in-hand, but they are still two different things. (Not being snarky, just pointing something out. I'm an online marketer and client education is the biggest challenge of my field.)
SEO is done on-site and is a process of organizing your information architecture so it is search-engine-friendly, and then creating content that is relevant to your target market. That way you can get indexed for the terms you want, so that you appear on SERPs (Search Engine Results Page) exposing you to your target market at their time of need.
Once that's done, SEM begins which is about attracting off site links that get you ranked high on those SERPs so you get traffic. (There's another side of SEM that's about PPC.)
SEO and SEM go hand-in-hand, but they are still two different things. (Not being snarky, just pointing something out. I'm an online marketer and client education is the biggest challenge of my field.)
That's a semantic quibble which I don't think adds a ton to the conversation. Besides that, it might just be WRONG. Just about every SEO professional I know would include copywriting, linkbait AND markup under the umbrella of SEO.
From Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_marketing )
"Search engine marketing, or SEM, is a form of Internet marketing that seeks to promote websites by increasing their visibility in search engine result pages (SERPs) through the use of paid placement, contextual advertising, and paid inclusion.[1]. The industry peak body Search Engine Marketing Professional Organization (SEMPO), also includes search engine optimization (SEO) within its reporting, but SEO is a separate discipline with most sources, including the New York Times defining SEM as 'the practice of buying paid search listings'.[2][3]"
http://is.gd/16x87 (GoogleFight! ;-) )
http://www.seomoz.org/article/beginners-guide-to-search-engi... (intro to SEO article which talks about linkbait).
Note: Not being snarky. I've been an online marketer and spoken on SEO. I think client education is important-- but we should focus on what's important and not the subtleties of acronyms.
From Wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_marketing )
"Search engine marketing, or SEM, is a form of Internet marketing that seeks to promote websites by increasing their visibility in search engine result pages (SERPs) through the use of paid placement, contextual advertising, and paid inclusion.[1]. The industry peak body Search Engine Marketing Professional Organization (SEMPO), also includes search engine optimization (SEO) within its reporting, but SEO is a separate discipline with most sources, including the New York Times defining SEM as 'the practice of buying paid search listings'.[2][3]"
http://is.gd/16x87 (GoogleFight! ;-) )
http://www.seomoz.org/article/beginners-guide-to-search-engi... (intro to SEO article which talks about linkbait).
Note: Not being snarky. I've been an online marketer and spoken on SEO. I think client education is important-- but we should focus on what's important and not the subtleties of acronyms.
My clients are usually more apt to talk about subtleties of acronyms than I. I'm glad you fought back a little though, you have a great point. I'd prefer to take the term SEO out back and have it shot, personally. I'm a bigger fan of findability, a la http://www.alistapart.com/articles/findabilityorphan/
Interesting distinctions. I guess I misunderstood the term SEO when I first heard it. If optimization refers to rearranging your content so that search engines can parse it more easily, then I can see where you're coming from. I thought it referred only to the end result, i.e. improving your site's rank. Thanks for the correction.
You're right in your definition. SEO (search engine friendly design, link building, etc.) is a subset of SEM. SEO is about improving your organic (non-paid) search results. SEM generally refers to a combination of SEO and PPC (pay-per-click) advertising, and other online marketing methods.
That said, I think things like the 37 signals post are too easily classified as SEO when it's really just publicity seeking with no real intent on improving the sites rankings.
That said, I think things like the 37 signals post are too easily classified as SEO when it's really just publicity seeking with no real intent on improving the sites rankings.
I think the term you're looking for is 'trolling'.
We've already established that they're trolling. The real question is whether they've set out to increase their page rank through those means, on purpose. They are a business, after all.
Call me naive, but I believe 37sigs want also to change how american small businesses operate. It's not just trolling they really want to change how certain people think.
Having a valid opinion that is against the grain is not "trolling". Innovation isn't trolling.
Well really, trolling isn't trolling when it's done by a for-profit business...
At that point we start calling it by fancy terms like brand awareness, or, in general, marketing.
Aside from that, who is trolling more here? 37signals for writing the original article? Or this bplans guy, to whom we are paying attention only because he picked a fight with 37signals?
At that point we start calling it by fancy terms like brand awareness, or, in general, marketing.
Aside from that, who is trolling more here? 37signals for writing the original article? Or this bplans guy, to whom we are paying attention only because he picked a fight with 37signals?
That's not the same as writing in an intentionally inflammatory manner to garner attention and get responses. There's a difference between your opinion and how you choose to convey it. For me, trolling is entirely a question of the latter and not the former.
I'm certain they like the side-effect of getting links from both sides of whatever fence they put up this week, but it could just be a nice side-effect, rather than the goal.
I'm similar in the way that when I make an argument for something, I don't like to soften it up with various "but it depends on", "your mileage may vary", listing various other methods that might work better in other situations, and so on.
I also think it's refreshing to have people actually take a stand for something — whether I agree with it or not. I'm tired of bland semi-advice that's watered down to go over well with everybody.
I'm similar in the way that when I make an argument for something, I don't like to soften it up with various "but it depends on", "your mileage may vary", listing various other methods that might work better in other situations, and so on.
I also think it's refreshing to have people actually take a stand for something — whether I agree with it or not. I'm tired of bland semi-advice that's watered down to go over well with everybody.
sorry to burst your bubbles people, but i don't think this was intentional. i don't think this was some genius marketing strategy that 37signals came up with, although maybe it is working in their favor. it's just over-reaction to over-planning is all, a slip, and not brilliance. read the guy's twitter page, and blog, this post is nothing extraordinary, so either he is a genius writer who can break into marketing with ease and mimic casualness on a regular basis, is a generated persona entirely, or just happened to say the wrong thing and 37signals already was talked about all the time, and thus this.
I keep checking out 37signals products because people make a fuss about it, so it's working, except I can't see what anyone sees in them.
I keep checking out 37signals products because people make a fuss about it, so it's working, except I can't see what anyone sees in them.
They seem to over-react to most time-tested business practices, which is why I think it's all part of the plan. People know that they will look at things differently, and then advise that it's a good way of doing business with their only data being compiled from their internal successes.
Their marketing is brilliant. Do the same thing many successful others have been doing for years, brand it, and spin the hell out of it. Imagine how successful they'd be with a good name.
This article, and the last paragraph in particular, strike me as another disingenuous snowball fight. Except with semantics instead of snowballs.
It seems pretty obvious that 37signals, when talking about 'plans', refers to the massive business plans which are the hallmark of people who don't have a chance of seeing them through.
But this is really just a debate between a guy who happens to sell business plans and a bunch of guys who happen to sell un-business-plans, soooo...
It seems pretty obvious that 37signals, when talking about 'plans', refers to the massive business plans which are the hallmark of people who don't have a chance of seeing them through.
But this is really just a debate between a guy who happens to sell business plans and a bunch of guys who happen to sell un-business-plans, soooo...
But this is really just a debate between a guy who happens to sell business plans and a bunch of guys who happen to sell un-business-plans, soooo...
It's better than that, this is a debate between a guy who happens to sell the same business plan that 37Signals gives away:
http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/1599181908/187-6998830-4936328?...
It's better than that, this is a debate between a guy who happens to sell the same business plan that 37Signals gives away:
http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/1599181908/187-6998830-4936328?...
It looks like you're right, and that it's the classic case of two people arguing about the same thing. Here's a quote from the book linked to above
" ... In The Plan-as-You-Go Business Plan, Tim Berry makes these points much more eloquently than I ever could. Tim argues that the planning process (along with regular reviews) is so important that business owners just need to get started somewhere, anywhere, and continue to build your plan as your needs change. This is 180 degrees different from the classical "big bang" approach to business planning where we work for months at a time developing a huge document before we ever get started working on the business."
" ... In The Plan-as-You-Go Business Plan, Tim Berry makes these points much more eloquently than I ever could. Tim argues that the planning process (along with regular reviews) is so important that business owners just need to get started somewhere, anywhere, and continue to build your plan as your needs change. This is 180 degrees different from the classical "big bang" approach to business planning where we work for months at a time developing a huge document before we ever get started working on the business."
"It seems pretty obvious that 37signals, when talking about 'plans', refers to the massive business plans which are the hallmark of people who don't have a chance of seeing them through."
If it's pretty obvious, I don't see it. From Matt's article I also gather that he sees any formal "plan", i.e. a set of steps and activities put together in advance, as something to restricting and necessary. Just as on the issue of bootstrapping vs. external funding the 37signals people seem too rigid in viewing their choices as being the best and only correct.
The quotes posted below describe the situation perfectly.
If it's pretty obvious, I don't see it. From Matt's article I also gather that he sees any formal "plan", i.e. a set of steps and activities put together in advance, as something to restricting and necessary. Just as on the issue of bootstrapping vs. external funding the 37signals people seem too rigid in viewing their choices as being the best and only correct.
The quotes posted below describe the situation perfectly.
That guy seems to be looking really close for things he can misunderstand or misconstrue in order to have a disagreement.
This is probably not the first time he's read something he "disagrees" with at 37signals. It reads like a lot of pent up frustration is finally being let loose.
This is probably not the first time he's read something he "disagrees" with at 37signals. It reads like a lot of pent up frustration is finally being let loose.
I sort of agree that he is grasping here. However, I don't think it is very unusual to find many things to disagree with 37signals about.
I'm not even reading a post that starts with "37Signals, a great Web app for project management". That just shows that the guy doesn't even know what is he talking about.
The point that seems to completely elude 37signals is that not every industry operates the same way as web design and development. They've taken their very narrow range of experience and told us that it applies to all projects in every industry (he cites Denver International Airport and the Big Dig in his post). This is such an outlandish notion that it becomes difficult to take them seriously at all.
As an example, I work as a design engineer in the R&D wing of an automotive supplier. If we were to just start building products on a hunch, without any market research or project planning, we could easily spend hundreds of thousands of dollars or more before we knew if we were headed in the right direction.
Ultimately planning is imperfect and comes at a cost (time and resources), but that needs to be compared to the cost of no planning at all. In the web app business the cost of trying a new idea may be next to nothing, so trial and error becomes the most expedient method. In my industry, we're aware that our plans are imperfect, but if they allow us to cut a few very expensive iterations out of the development process then they're worth it.
As an example, I work as a design engineer in the R&D wing of an automotive supplier. If we were to just start building products on a hunch, without any market research or project planning, we could easily spend hundreds of thousands of dollars or more before we knew if we were headed in the right direction.
Ultimately planning is imperfect and comes at a cost (time and resources), but that needs to be compared to the cost of no planning at all. In the web app business the cost of trying a new idea may be next to nothing, so trial and error becomes the most expedient method. In my industry, we're aware that our plans are imperfect, but if they allow us to cut a few very expensive iterations out of the development process then they're worth it.
I don't think it "eludes" them so much as they simply don't care about the entrepreneurial needs of automotive suppliers.
I would have made the same assumption, except, as I mentioned, the two examples he gives are major construction projects. Since it was clear that the 37signals post was addressing all types of projects, I thought I'd give one example where the argument against planning doesn't hold.
Isn't the automotive industry the MBA textbook example of how less planning, nimbler processes, continuous improvement, and faster innovation allowed underdogs to completely reverse the market?
No, it's because they're constantly evaluating and updating their plan to adapt to obstacles rather than attempting to ignore obstacles and proceed obstinately along the same route that they had in mind at the beginning.
If anything they're doing MORE planning, because whenever something gets in their way, they have to put some effort into coming up with a new plan or changing their existing plan.
If anything they're doing MORE planning, because whenever something gets in their way, they have to put some effort into coming up with a new plan or changing their existing plan.
I'm appaled that the hate of 37signals around here runs so deep that people have actually downvoted the above comment.
Plans are nothing; planning is everything.
Gen. Dwight Eisenhower
Gen. Dwight Eisenhower
I prefer this version:
'Plans are of little importance, but planning is essential' -- Winston Churchill
'Plans are of little importance, but planning is essential' -- Winston Churchill
"A good plan, violently executed now, is better than a perfect plan next week." -- George Patton
>> "That messy planning stage that delays things and prevents you from getting real is, in large part, a waste of time."
Does anyone else find "getting real" a horrible horrible term that sounds like old people trying to be hip, and completely failing? Or is it just me?
Does anyone else find "getting real" a horrible horrible term that sounds like old people trying to be hip, and completely failing? Or is it just me?
Right up there with "lean startups" for me. Or the 5-whys. Or six-sigma.
The 37Signals people do say some silly things. Who doesn't, though?
It's one thing to argue against trying to nail down all the details far in advance, but whether you're running a business, or even, as Tim suggests, heading out on a trip, you're going to need some sort of a plan.
It's one thing to argue against trying to nail down all the details far in advance, but whether you're running a business, or even, as Tim suggests, heading out on a trip, you're going to need some sort of a plan.
Some of the best trips I've had did not include a plan. Order a plain ticket, jump on the plane, arrive at the destination, and take it from there.
Yeah, but the ticket had a destination, right? And you bought the ticket in advance, right? And you knew when to show up at the airport, right? You had your passport with, and had enough cash to cover your stay, and a return trip, right?
You did a lot more planning than you seem to think.
You did a lot more planning than you seem to think.
"You did a lot more planning than you seem to think."
Excellent observation.
People do more planning than they might think, so the question is, how deliberate do you want those plans to be?
Excellent observation.
People do more planning than they might think, so the question is, how deliberate do you want those plans to be?
> Who doesn't, though?
Those who keep quiet? I suppose it's better to be loud and wrong and get noticed, though, than silent and invisible.
Those who keep quiet? I suppose it's better to be loud and wrong and get noticed, though, than silent and invisible.
Sure, if you also think it's "better" to be the drunk obnoxious guy at the party.
37signals mentioned 14 times in this post, it worked.
Lots of noise. Filter it.
However, I don't doubt that they are "planning" on writing another post next week that looks at a common business practice from the completely opposite direction. Then a thousand bloggers will write about how wrong they are.