Ask HN: Validate my idea - find a mentor to improve your employment chances

7 pointsby KiwiCodervor 13 Jahren16 comments

I'm a programmer and recently published author.

I have an idea for a marketplace website where programmers pair up with mentors to improve their chances of employment.

Here's what I have so far, I'd love HN feedback...

A 3 step process:

Stage 1 - ASSESSMENT

Programmer chooses a mentor from a list and pays a fee (or not - considering alternate models, see comments)

Fee is split 80/20 between mentor and site.

Programmer submits CV and/or holds mock phone interview with mentor

Mentor gives feedback including; Would you shortlist this CV? (yes/no) - Based on the phone interview, would you invite this programmer to an in-person interview? - What do you like/dislike about this programmers presentation?

STAGE 2 - MAKEOVER

Mentor and programmer work together to improve CV and interview technique

Focused on feedback from stage 1

Time cap (mentor time is valuable)

STAGE 3 - REVIEW

Revised CV is reviewed by at least 3 additional mentors, all answering the question "would you shortlist this CV"

That's about it. Other thoughts -

- Mentor will typically be an actual hiring manager - this is key - no recruiters - Direct contact between job seeker and mentor - No middle-men (recruiters, agencies, job sites etc) - Relies on candid feedback

6 comments

onion2kvor 13 Jahren

I like the idea, but I hate the business model. I have a deep mistrust of services that make money from people who are in desperate situations. Charging unemployed people for a service that might help them get a job is an ethically grey area.

The fact is this sort of service would be awesome if unemployed people could access it at no cost to themselves. If it could be run with either government money (to improve national employment levels) or corporate sponsorship (so companies get better CVs) then it'd be very useful.

KiwiCodervor 13 Jahren

Great comment, thanks.

You know, your comment gives me an idea; I happen to know a good number of volunteer programmers who might want to help bootstrap a site like this, at least to the point where it could attract government funding or corporate sponsorship.

Peronivor 13 Jahren

There's one significant factor not being considered here. Poor quality candidates.

Let's assume Candidate A decides to pay for this service. Turns out that Candidate A has limited experience and the experience they have is poor at best.

To top it all off, Candidate A is simply terrible at interviewing. Candidate A has paid you money to improve their chances of finding work yet the reality is that regardless of polish, Candidate A is still a terrible candidate.

Now what?

Over the years I have offered my services to HN and a handful of other tech groups to review their CV's free of charge. Due to the fact that it was free, I was absolutely inundated with CV's and a significant percentage of those CV's were terrible. Candidates that would sincerely struggle to find decent work regardless of the layout and content of their CV.

Personally I believe that the number of decent developers that miss out on good opportunities because of their CV and/or interview skills is exceptionally small. That's not to say they don't exist but the market may not be as large as you think.

Another consideration needed is context. Would you shortlist this CV? (yes/no) - That's an incredibly subjective question. Would I shortlist them for what exactly? You will have a lot of work on your hands to ensure that the Candidates are paired with a relevant mentor. A mentor who has only ever worked with Ruby teams for example, is not necessarily the best mentor for a Drupal developer.

Ed, I'm a big fan of your work so forgive me if my comments sound exceptionally harsh. I think some of your solutions to improve the hiring process are great but I'm not convinced this particular idea has much legs. I'd love to be proved wrong though!

KiwiCodervor 13 Jahren

Steve, thanks for your thoughtful comments, I know you're talking from experience in this domain.

So "candidate A" needs to be told the truth and confront their limitations, else they will never improve. Candidates deserve honest and unbiased feedback from people who actually do the hiring, not their proxies, but at present there is precious little feedback given.

You make a good point about the size of the market, so I'm not about to sink life savings into a venture. I am however seriously considering spending a few days working up a MVP.

Peronivor 13 Jahren

but at present there is precious little feedback given.

That's a massive pain point right there. Even the best candidates bemoan the fact that they rarely get feedback from interviews so you might possibly be on to something. Either way, good luck.

rsmaniakvor 13 Jahren

I've been thinking about a service like this. I think it would be very valuable for "experienced" devs (think 1 year repeated n times) or devs with a few years out of school who want to join a startup or a big co and are rusty in algo's, startup engineering, cs concepts and coding interviews. Stage 2 could even work as a sort of mini dev bootcamp, where candidates could work on not only interview techniques but also on developing a portfolio, sample projects, etc. Candidates could pay for mentorship once they select a mentor to work with.

KiwiCodervor 13 Jahren

onion2k's comment hit home - the last thing I want is to prey on anyone's desperation. I'm re-thinking the funding model and the question of who pays.

zenith-mf-1vor 13 Jahren

Hi KiwiCoder,

I recommand you to read Alberto Savoia' book (pretotype It) it's free. http://www.pretotyping.org/pretotype-it---the-book

Instead of collecting an abstacts feedback/opinions, you have to pretotype your idea (as cheaper as possible) and start collect real data from real cutomers who are using your pretotype.

Have a nice pretotype

KiwiCodervor 13 Jahren

Currently watching the video of Alberto presenting his idea - love it, thanks.

mchermvor 13 Jahren

The term "mentor" and getting paid for helping simply don't mix (in my mind). If you actually mean a site where people get help with writing and improving their resume/CV, that would be useful, but I'd use a word other than "mentor". If the objective is to match up people with potential mentors (keeping an ongoing relationship over some time to provide career guidance) then I'd avoid paying the mentors.

KiwiCodervor 13 Jahren

Interesting point - I'd originally written "hiring manager" since that was my first thought. I went for "mentor" since (a) I wanted a bigger potential set of advice-givers and (b) it's less of a mouthful than "hiring manager" and (I thought, but now not so sure) that it had the same connotations.

ig1vor 13 Jahren

Many universities offer such services to students but the take-up level is normally very low, so I'm not sure there's a huge market for it.

KiwiCodervor 13 Jahren

University services tend to be, uh, academic.

A differentiator would be the quality of advice offered, and the fact that the mentors would also be actual hiring managers.

You might be right, though I still think it's worth doing a MVP or this 'pretotype' idea.

ig1vor 13 Jahren

Universities often offer CV/interview practice sessions run by the recruitment team at major firms.

KiwiCodervor 13 Jahren

Recruitment teams are, in my experience, and I'm not trying to be funny, uniquely unqualified to offer this kind of advice EXCEPT as a how-to guide for getting through their own filters so you can speak to the hiring manager.

ig1vor 13 Jahren

When I helped run the grad recruitment team at Bloomberg, we definitely sent developers involved in hiring to help students improve their CVs, and we were far from the only company doing it.