Adobe claims rtmpdump 'can be used' to infringe(chillingeffects.org)
chillingeffects.org
Adobe claims rtmpdump 'can be used' to infringe
http://www.chillingeffects.org/anticircumvention/notice.cgi?NoticeID=25159
2 comments
Are you implying that it is somehow illegal or "infringing" to dump a data stream being sent to your computer to a file?
I cannot imagine what insane logic could lead to such a conclusion. If we were using this logic 20 years ago, VHS recorders would have been deemed illegal.
I cannot imagine what insane logic could lead to such a conclusion. If we were using this logic 20 years ago, VHS recorders would have been deemed illegal.
> Are you implying that it is somehow illegal or "infringing" to dump a data stream being sent to your computer to a file?
No, what I'm saying is that if you write a script to dump Hulu.com files and advertise it on the main page of your project as a main feature of how you can use it, you really shouldn't be surprised that people think the main use of your program is to infringe.
No, what I'm saying is that if you write a script to dump Hulu.com files and advertise it on the main page of your project as a main feature of how you can use it, you really shouldn't be surprised that people think the main use of your program is to infringe.
Again, how is that infringement?
They are sending you data. You have the right to put it in a file. That is not infringement.
If you aren't legally allowed to put it in a file, they weren't allowed to send it to you, so Hulu is infringing, not you.
They are sending you data. You have the right to put it in a file. That is not infringement.
If you aren't legally allowed to put it in a file, they weren't allowed to send it to you, so Hulu is infringing, not you.
What's legal, especially under the DMCA, isn't defined by what you feel is common sense, unfortunately.
Indeed, it's not defined by common sense or (thank god) what you "feel is right": it's defined by the law, which doesn't agree with such absurd concepts as it being illegal to save data onto a disk.
Even the DMCA doesn't prevent that: it prevents bypassing certain types of copy protection schemes. By your logic, the DMCA makes it illegal to dump a DVD to your hard disc, which is categorically false: it is only illegal to break the CSS encryption, not to dump the data. It is also not illegal to dump the video data after it has left the decoder.
I suggest you do more reading on the legal system and its precedents (particularly Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc.) before you attempt to comment on it.
Of course, this all applies to the US. Your mileage may vary in other countries.
Even the DMCA doesn't prevent that: it prevents bypassing certain types of copy protection schemes. By your logic, the DMCA makes it illegal to dump a DVD to your hard disc, which is categorically false: it is only illegal to break the CSS encryption, not to dump the data. It is also not illegal to dump the video data after it has left the decoder.
I suggest you do more reading on the legal system and its precedents (particularly Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc.) before you attempt to comment on it.
Of course, this all applies to the US. Your mileage may vary in other countries.
I'd just as soon they admit what the tool is for. Does anyone really long for the days when everything had 'For educational purposes only' written on it?
That is to say, I find no problem with the tool itself. I have had occasions where it would be helpful to legitimately use something like it for debugging. My concern is with the legal system that encourages them to lie about why they built it.
That is to say, I find no problem with the tool itself. I have had occasions where it would be helpful to legitimately use something like it for debugging. My concern is with the legal system that encourages them to lie about why they built it.
A summary based on what I've read elsewhere:
rtmpdump is a stream recorder that can save videos streamed by Adobe Flash's RTMP protocol
Adobe has a more "secure" version of that called RTMPE
surprise! it's not really secure. Analysis: http://lkcl.net/rtmp/RTMPE.txt
Quote: "the Adobe RTMPE algorithm tries to provide end-to-end secrecy in exactly the same way that SSL provides end-to-end secrecy, but the algorithm is subject to man-in-the-middle attacks, provides no security, relies on publicly obtainable information and the algorithm itself to obfuscate the content, and uses no authentication of any kind."
So the DMCA anti-circumvention provision makes this software illegal in the US, even though the "protection" that has been circumvented is laughable.
Apparently that could be a basis for a challenge, i.e. nothing has been circumvented as there is no protection there in the first place.
(Odd note: the examples of content that could be infringed are shows on a British channel. As far as I'm aware this software is legal in the UK)
rtmpdump is a stream recorder that can save videos streamed by Adobe Flash's RTMP protocol
Adobe has a more "secure" version of that called RTMPE
surprise! it's not really secure. Analysis: http://lkcl.net/rtmp/RTMPE.txt
Quote: "the Adobe RTMPE algorithm tries to provide end-to-end secrecy in exactly the same way that SSL provides end-to-end secrecy, but the algorithm is subject to man-in-the-middle attacks, provides no security, relies on publicly obtainable information and the algorithm itself to obfuscate the content, and uses no authentication of any kind."
So the DMCA anti-circumvention provision makes this software illegal in the US, even though the "protection" that has been circumvented is laughable.
Apparently that could be a basis for a challenge, i.e. nothing has been circumvented as there is no protection there in the first place.
(Odd note: the examples of content that could be infringed are shows on a British channel. As far as I'm aware this software is legal in the UK)
From the page: "A small dumper for media content streamed over the RTMP protocol. Supplying an rtmp url will result in a dumped flv file, which can be played/transcoded using ffmpeg/mplayer, etc. Download scripts for BBC's iPlayer and hulu.com streams are included."
It seems like they chose to describe it as an infringement tool that can be used for other things (debugging?) as well.
[1] http://74.6.239.67/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=rtmpdump&...