Linus as one of the top 14% most vulgar users on GitHub(osrc.dfm.io)
osrc.dfm.io
Linus as one of the top 14% most vulgar users on GitHub
http://osrc.dfm.io/torvalds
17 comments
It's a racial slur against the irish. Somehow I doubt that's how linus is using it though.
It's a racial slur against the irish. - Only in the US. If you were to call an Irish person a mick anywhere outside of the US you'd be met with a confused look and them re-introducing themselves with their actual name.
I've heard it outside the US too. However I'd say it's one of the least offensive terms for an Irish person (I'm Irish).
EDIT: I was wrong! See Peroni's reply below. I leave my incorrect reply here.
{{It's a slur in England.
I guess it's probably dangerous to call people micks in Ireland and Northern Ireland.}}
{{It's a slur in England.
I guess it's probably dangerous to call people micks in Ireland and Northern Ireland.}}
It really isn't. I'm Irish born & raised and have lived in London now for the last 4 years and not only have I never, ever heard the term used in a derogatory manor, I can't imagine any context where a fellow Irishman would take offence.
TBH I'd say Paddy was more common in the UK as a term for the Irish, but neither are as common as Jock (Scottish) or Taff (Welsh).
I'd say even Septic beats it (Septic Tank = Yank).
I'd say even Septic beats it (Septic Tank = Yank).
Listerine.
As in :
Listerine -> Anti-Septic -> Septic-tank -> Yank -> Yankee -> American
Translation:
As in :
I'm not Listerine but GitMo horrifies me.
Listerine -> Anti-Septic -> Septic-tank -> Yank -> Yankee -> American
Translation:
I'm not anti-american but GitMo horrifies me.
These sorts of words can be highly localised. There was an Australian TV show called "Spicks and Specks" (named after a Bee Gees song), and Apple wouldn't let them put an app of the same name in their App Store because it's apparently offensive in the US.
As a Brit, I've never heard of it meaning that.
Is it as in "taking the mick"?
Taking the Mickey Bliss -> Taking the [censored for fear of turning up in the top 17% of vulgar HNers] --> related to it being slang for being Irish? Maybe not then.
Is it as in "taking the mick"?
Taking the Mickey Bliss -> Taking the [censored for fear of turning up in the top 17% of vulgar HNers] --> related to it being slang for being Irish? Maybe not then.
No, it's completely unrelated to rhyming slang. I believe it comes from the "Mc" which often begins Irish surnames.
It's more likely because Mick/Michael is such a common Irish name, as in Paddy.
Mc is actually more common in Scottish names (it means son of, and short for Mac), Ó (or Ua) is more common for the Irish (means grandson or less commonly progeny of).
Other explanation is that Linus is a racist and most linux developers are Irish :-)
Honestly I lived in Ireland for 7 years but I never heard of this word. I wander if they included other offensive words such as 'root' (in australia) or 'bush' :-)
Honestly I lived in Ireland for 7 years but I never heard of this word. I wander if they included other offensive words such as 'root' (in australia) or 'bush' :-)
'root' is only offensive if you're described as a 'dud' one ;)
when you are Linus Torvalds, you have to be able to violate a bit the code of conduit :)
I loved it when he gives a finger to Nvidia :
http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2012/06/torvalds-nvidia...
'Mick' is slang for Irish; it's a racial slur. Your theory seems more likely.
mick is not on the list of recognized swear words:
https://github.com/dfm/osrc/blob/master/ghdata/static/swears...
It was 20 days ago: https://github.com/dfm/osrc/commit/c104c9eeb7d03f26b2c7acb58...
It seems that their cache is a bit too aggressive :)
It seems that their cache is a bit too aggressive :)
Could be from "taking the mick" - which is rhyming slang (Mickey Bliss).
Guys, you have to remember that Linus Torvalds is from Finland where the communication culture is a bit different. For example, the Finnish language does not have an equivalent for the word "please" so it's sometimes really hard to be courteous and polite for a finn.
Linus' native language is actually Swedish with a Finnish dialect, he's from a bilingual family. But in any case, the tone of his verbal output is definitely Finnish :)
Yes he sometime pisses someone off because of his blunt way of saying things but that kind of things happen when communicating across cultural and language barriers.
Linus' native language is actually Swedish with a Finnish dialect, he's from a bilingual family. But in any case, the tone of his verbal output is definitely Finnish :)
Yes he sometime pisses someone off because of his blunt way of saying things but that kind of things happen when communicating across cultural and language barriers.
>the Finnish language does not have an equivalent for the word "please"
My first thought was "Don't be silly, of course it does!" but then I realized that it's actually true - we don't have a direct equivalent to "please". Funny how that goes (and I certainly don't use "please" any less than a native speaker would). But we do have plenty of ways to express politeness in its place, so I have to disagree with the "it's sometimes really hard to be courteous and polite for a Finn." There are certainly some Finnish manners, like the tendency to get straight to the point, which one could intepret as rude at times but that obviously wouldn't be the case with Finns communicating with Finns.
My first thought was "Don't be silly, of course it does!" but then I realized that it's actually true - we don't have a direct equivalent to "please". Funny how that goes (and I certainly don't use "please" any less than a native speaker would). But we do have plenty of ways to express politeness in its place, so I have to disagree with the "it's sometimes really hard to be courteous and polite for a Finn." There are certainly some Finnish manners, like the tendency to get straight to the point, which one could intepret as rude at times but that obviously wouldn't be the case with Finns communicating with Finns.
You say you're disagreeing, but it sounds like you're agreeing.
>"There are certainly some Finnish manners, like the tendency to get straight to the point, which one could intepret as rude at times but that obviously wouldn't be the case with Finns communicating with Finns."
The issue is communicating with the rest of the tech community. I can personally attest that West Coast Americans, which comprises a very large percentage of the tech community, are extremely sensitive to anything that could possibly be perceived as non-positive.
I'm from the Northeastern US, where directness in speech is valued and isn't construed as being rude. If something sucks, you can say "that sucks" without everybody getting bent out of shape. In SF, I've had several misunderstandings with co-workers where they assumed I wasn't happy about something because, even though I said "that's fantastic!" I didn't say it enthusiastically enough. As silly as it sounds, this has led to real problems for me in the office where people are genuinely hurt and are unlikely to work with me in the future.
This is just the long winded way of me saying: for a non-west coast american talking to a west coast american, yes, it's difficult to be polite and courteous to their expected standard.
>"There are certainly some Finnish manners, like the tendency to get straight to the point, which one could intepret as rude at times but that obviously wouldn't be the case with Finns communicating with Finns."
The issue is communicating with the rest of the tech community. I can personally attest that West Coast Americans, which comprises a very large percentage of the tech community, are extremely sensitive to anything that could possibly be perceived as non-positive.
I'm from the Northeastern US, where directness in speech is valued and isn't construed as being rude. If something sucks, you can say "that sucks" without everybody getting bent out of shape. In SF, I've had several misunderstandings with co-workers where they assumed I wasn't happy about something because, even though I said "that's fantastic!" I didn't say it enthusiastically enough. As silly as it sounds, this has led to real problems for me in the office where people are genuinely hurt and are unlikely to work with me in the future.
This is just the long winded way of me saying: for a non-west coast american talking to a west coast american, yes, it's difficult to be polite and courteous to their expected standard.
He's been living in the US for 16 years, so thats not a valid excuse. Also, there's a difference between not saying please and being vulgar. I don't think you can dismiss this as merely a cultural issue.
>He's been living in the US for 16 years, so thats not a valid excuse.
Not a valid excuse for what? Who said he has to be "excused"? To quote George Bernard Shaw, who told you the customs of your tribe in the US are natural laws?
>* Also, there's a difference between not saying please and being vulgar.*
As there is a difference between swearing and being vulgar.
Not a valid excuse for what? Who said he has to be "excused"? To quote George Bernard Shaw, who told you the customs of your tribe in the US are natural laws?
>* Also, there's a difference between not saying please and being vulgar.*
As there is a difference between swearing and being vulgar.
Sure, but I wanted to remark that it still probably requires him a conscious effort to be polite and to not sound like an asshole to a naturally polite american. Something he often forgets when there's more important business to worry about. The word "please" was an exaggerated example, but if you'd hear two finns politely disagreeing with each other you would probably call it "vulgar" or even think that they hate each other.
And besides, it's not exclusively american people he deals with. He probably gets along fine with e.g. Russians who have a culture that is more similar to his own.
And besides, it's not exclusively american people he deals with. He probably gets along fine with e.g. Russians who have a culture that is more similar to his own.
A scary percentage of "naturally polite americans" feel entitled to to whatever they want with complete disregard for others' convenience, as long as they politely say "Excuse me".
> the Finnish language does not have an equivalent for the word "please" so it's sometimes really hard to be courteous and polite for a finn.
Gee. Even though there is not a separate "politeness word" in Finnish (or in many other languages), this does not mean that Finnish does not have ways to express several levels of politeness.
It's only hard to be polite for a Finn who does not know English very well. And it's equally hard for an English-speaking person to be polite in Finnish, if that person doesn't know Finnish very well.
Gee. Even though there is not a separate "politeness word" in Finnish (or in many other languages), this does not mean that Finnish does not have ways to express several levels of politeness.
It's only hard to be polite for a Finn who does not know English very well. And it's equally hard for an English-speaking person to be polite in Finnish, if that person doesn't know Finnish very well.
Hmm, so you can't ask for something politely in Finnish? How do you distinguish?
You can ask for things politely in Finnish but you can't translate that into English.
Instead of adding superfluous words like "please" to the end of the sentence, in Finnish you conjugate the verb of the sentence to a "polite form" to indicate the intent. There's a dozen different forms to use, e.g. "imperative" to indicate that something must be done or "potential" to indicate that something might probably happen.
Instead of adding superfluous words like "please" to the end of the sentence, in Finnish you conjugate the verb of the sentence to a "polite form" to indicate the intent. There's a dozen different forms to use, e.g. "imperative" to indicate that something must be done or "potential" to indicate that something might probably happen.
That makes sense, thanks.
If the knife is still in the sheath, the question is polite.
At least, according to Danish national stereotypes of Finns.
http://satwcomic.com/no-invitation
At least, according to Danish national stereotypes of Finns.
http://satwcomic.com/no-invitation
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Here's an example, somewhat ordered by increasing politeness:
Do this => Tee näin
Can you do this => Voitko tehdä näin
Could you do this => Voisitko tehdä näin
Would you kindly do this => Olisitko ystävällinen ja tekisit näin
A too literal translation of the last would be: Could you be friendly and do this. "Would you do this, please?" I think would work in English, with approximately same politeness level.
Do this => Tee näin
Can you do this => Voitko tehdä näin
Could you do this => Voisitko tehdä näin
Would you kindly do this => Olisitko ystävällinen ja tekisit näin
A too literal translation of the last would be: Could you be friendly and do this. "Would you do this, please?" I think would work in English, with approximately same politeness level.
Ah, that's similar to what we do in Greek. We have a word for "please", but very rarely use it. Instead, it also goes "do this", "do this for a bit" (it's a sort of colloquial "do me a favour"), "can you do this", "could you do this", "could you please do this"?
That was an interesting fact about Finnish. Also, in England, it goes "Do this", "Could you please do this", with omission of the "please" considered rather rude :P
That was an interesting fact about Finnish. Also, in England, it goes "Do this", "Could you please do this", with omission of the "please" considered rather rude :P
Don't know Finnish, but words and expressions change meaning by context, not to mention the tone used in spoken language, which often gets lost in written words, that's probably how.
It's interesting to think of differences between languages and how that influences culture.
For instance in Chinese the verbs themselves do not change to express tense. Expressing tense, for example "I will do that", is made by usage of adverbs or putting the words in the proper context. Asian cultures apparently have a preference towards living in the present, probably more than any other cultures. Think Buddhism.
It's interesting to think of differences between languages and how that influences culture.
For instance in Chinese the verbs themselves do not change to express tense. Expressing tense, for example "I will do that", is made by usage of adverbs or putting the words in the proper context. Asian cultures apparently have a preference towards living in the present, probably more than any other cultures. Think Buddhism.
Equating ordinary swearing to "vulgar" is an American thing.
I find it rather uncomfortable to repeatedly see threads in which Americans judge others (and each other) based on utterly irrelevant puritanical values rather than their contributions hitting the front-page of HN.
Especially the utter irrelevance bothers me, this is not about stuff like government regulation or privacy or women in tech, where there are valid ideological differences to discuss.
This is just about shaming people because they have different values. It's pathetic. We might as well be engaging in celebrity gossip.
I find it rather uncomfortable to repeatedly see threads in which Americans judge others (and each other) based on utterly irrelevant puritanical values rather than their contributions hitting the front-page of HN.
Especially the utter irrelevance bothers me, this is not about stuff like government regulation or privacy or women in tech, where there are valid ideological differences to discuss.
This is just about shaming people because they have different values. It's pathetic. We might as well be engaging in celebrity gossip.
A European and multi-lingual version of facebook that doesn't enforce American puritanism rules on porn etc and torrents, would be more popular, like tumblr.
vulgar (adj.)
late 14c., "common, ordinary," from Latin vulgaris "of or pertaining to the common people, common, vulgar," from vulgus "the common people, multitude, crowd, throng," from PIE root *wel- "to crowd, throng" (cf. Sanskrit vargah "division, group," Greek eilein "to press, throng," Middle Breton gwal'ch "abundance," Welsh gwala "sufficiency, enough"). Meaning "coarse, low, ill-bred" is first recorded 1640s, probably from earlier use (with reference to people) with meaning "belonging to the ordinary class" (1530).
http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=vulgar&allowed_in_f...
http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=vulgar&allowed_in_f...
I love it. Top comment is defending his swearing, with a ton of attached discussion over whether or not it's really defensible. Second-ranked comment is pointing out that the statistic is completely bogus. Amusing to see what gets more attention and upvotes.
Me too.I'm absolutely excited by the service itself and really puzzled how people stick on the some irrelevant and well-known details.
Guys - anyone TRIED at least other user handles? Its fun!
Guys - anyone TRIED at least other user handles? Its fun!
The site was down when I tried it initially, but I just tried it on myself now, and you're right, it is pretty cool.
Hah - what a fun tool! I'm surprised to find out I'm in the top 38% most vulgar users on Github. I'd always told my teams never to swear in code so I'm probably in the top 10% most hypocritical user pool...
http://osrc.dfm.io/philjackson
http://osrc.dfm.io/philjackson
So 14% of users are more vulgar than Linux? Who are these people?
A page full of stats and relationships regarding the commit behaviour of one of the most important figures in computer science of all time, and the only one people care about is "how much he swears". Fuck that shit.
Seems the site does't cache results. And just hit the rate limit.
I think you're muddling up vulgarity with swearing. Personally, I find Linus' writing clear and concise with a good grasp of common English idiom.
Just checked a USAian dictionary - as usual you chaps are using well defined words with a clear etymology in as barbarous a manner as possible.
My statement still stands. People who are scared of words need to be shocked into engaging their brain.
My statement still stands. People who are scared of words need to be shocked into engaging their brain.
I'm confused. What word did you look up? And I'm not seeing the original statement that you are now defending here.
The world "vulgar" of course.
Swearing in a language other than your first counts a lot less. As if were to throw "merde" or "fick" around. In Sweden, while speaking Swedish, they will casually say fuck instead of "fan!" or "helvete!"
only the top 14% !
Well, Fuck me.
Well, Fuck me.
Haha, I saw this yesterday, I thought it was funny. No need to read more into it.
Also I suspect it's someone name, not the actual slur.
Anyone else getting this?
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Sorry guys… It looks like something went wrong! We've probably exceeded GitHub's API limits.
How about you read about how this work and then come back later?
Sorry!
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Sorry guys… It looks like something went wrong! We've probably exceeded GitHub's API limits.
How about you read about how this work and then come back later?
Sorry!
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Works fine for me. Maybe your data wasn't cached before their API limit got exceeded?
I was earlier getting this for the original link for Torvalds, but now it is working again.
To bad we already managed to overload the site.
Anybody has a cut&paste ready copy of this top-10 in their browser?
It's overloaded now.
It's overloaded now.
Surprised the result wasn't cached.
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It seems his vulgarity surpasses his C skill!
Is mick a filthy word? Linus probably often refers to a kernel developer named Mick, which then earned him this spot in the top 14%.