Modern GPU(nvlabs.github.io)
nvlabs.github.io
Modern GPU
http://nvlabs.github.io/moderngpu/
8 comments
Totally agree. However every single time I've tried to editorialize a title like this one to make it better the mods have changed it back to the page's title. I imagine a lot of people have given up on even trying to make informative titles. It's the worst part about this forum in my opinion.
And the suggestion to make a blog post about it, then submit that, is really just encouraging blog spam, which typically gets flagged into oblivion. I know that I will do so - a one or two sentence blog post should not IMO be submitted in lieu of the article itself. I personally thought the ability to editorialize with only flamebait titles being changed by the mods was way better. Yes, it led to arbitrary decisions by the mods, but I see two problems with the current system:
- Information is often missing from the original, as it is here
- The mods are not always so quick to rename, and it's frustrating to see an article that I previously read changed to another title, resulting in confusion when I see it.
Further, The current system actually incentivizes over-editorializing the title to get a post boosted onto the front page, knowing it will be causally re-titled by the mods in due course.
- Information is often missing from the original, as it is here
- The mods are not always so quick to rename, and it's frustrating to see an article that I previously read changed to another title, resulting in confusion when I see it.
Further, The current system actually incentivizes over-editorializing the title to get a post boosted onto the front page, knowing it will be causally re-titled by the mods in due course.
I absolutely agree, but I stopped editorializing titles because they were either reverted to the original title, o re-editorialized by the moderators.
I can't change the title anymore, hope some moderator will.
I can't change the title anymore, hope some moderator will.
The title at r/programming, by contrast, is
> New GPU computing ebook and library. Design methodologies, algorithms, tuning, the works.
> New GPU computing ebook and library. Design methodologies, algorithms, tuning, the works.
It's my site. I didn't realize it was even posted here (I did post it at reddit).
To address some points:
The title of the site is kind of vague, agreed. I'm going to write an abstract for the index page to describe the gist of the design methodologies.
It's not part of an NVIDIA sales pitch, at all. I work in NVIDIA Research and have a lot of autonomy. I like doing programming patterns and algorithms research. At some point I had amassed a lot of stuff and thought it would be nice to share everything with the community.. no coordination with the marketing folks. My employer was nice enough to let me release it, but this is my project, not an official company one. This flexibility is one advantage of working in research.
I don't want to get dragged into a vendor or API debate. The MGPU project is about programming concepts. It wouldn't be hard for a developer to translate all the functions into another API--"hackability" is a goal that I talk about in the introduction. I chose CUDA because it's succinct (important for code readability) and its what I use on a daily basis.
To address some points:
The title of the site is kind of vague, agreed. I'm going to write an abstract for the index page to describe the gist of the design methodologies.
It's not part of an NVIDIA sales pitch, at all. I work in NVIDIA Research and have a lot of autonomy. I like doing programming patterns and algorithms research. At some point I had amassed a lot of stuff and thought it would be nice to share everything with the community.. no coordination with the marketing folks. My employer was nice enough to let me release it, but this is my project, not an official company one. This flexibility is one advantage of working in research.
I don't want to get dragged into a vendor or API debate. The MGPU project is about programming concepts. It wouldn't be hard for a developer to translate all the functions into another API--"hackability" is a goal that I talk about in the introduction. I chose CUDA because it's succinct (important for code readability) and its what I use on a daily basis.
Cheers for the great work, I'm really looking forward to working through this.
For those interested in articles like these, there's a really great course on iTunes U (and YouTube, among other places) from UC Davis titled "Graphics Architecture", taught by John Owens. [1]
I clicked on it being tangentially interested in GPUs and ended up watching all the lectures within the next few days with rapt attention. The topic ended up being far more interesting than I thought and was delivered in a very approachable way.
[1] https://itunes.apple.com/us/itunes-u/graphics-architecture-w...
I clicked on it being tangentially interested in GPUs and ended up watching all the lectures within the next few days with rapt attention. The topic ended up being far more interesting than I thought and was delivered in a very approachable way.
[1] https://itunes.apple.com/us/itunes-u/graphics-architecture-w...
There's also a GPU programming course being taught at Udacity:
https://www.udacity.com/course/cs344
https://www.udacity.com/course/cs344
Is it CUDA only or can we submit code written in OpenCL, DirectCompute or C++ AMP etc?
It looks like NVIDIA is hoping to highlight CUDA here. You can always try though.
To be honest, for the target audience of this book, CUDA is the only thing that matters right now. OpenCL and DirectCompute will possibly be significant in the future if AMD and Intel can catch up with NVIDIA in GPGPU performance.
Here's a question you might be able to answer... what exactly do Nvidia cards do better than AMD cards? In the bitcoin and litecoin worlds, Nvidia is horribly outclassed for hash algorithms like sha-256 or scrypt. In the gaming world it's closer, but ATI's 79xx series still wins. (Especially when you consider in the cases a single 7970 isn't enough, which is true for several games, you can get 2 7970s for less than the price of a GTX Titan and win that way. Or a single 7990.) 32bit and 64bit floating point benchmarks favor AMD, the openCL Sala and Room benchmarks in Luxmark favor AMD... (Not exactly fair for that one since it's not CUDA, but the difference is enough that a performance boost from CUDA likely wouldn't close the gap.)
I suspect Nvidia's advantage is their proprietary software like PhysX and other software used in high-end computing or scientific-computing, and possibly they scale better (or simply there are Nvidia-supported solutions) when you want to add dozens of cards together. Is this the case? Because I don't see how one can claim AMD needs to "catch up" in performance if you're looking solely on a card-by-card basis.
Edit: Comparing http://clbenchmark.com/device-info.jsp?config=14470292&t... and http://clbenchmark.com/device-info.jsp?config=11905561&t... (easier comparison: http://clbenchmark.com/compare.jsp?config_0=11905561&con...), the only ones where Nvidia trounces are on Mergesort and memory usage of Gaussian blur; mergesort is mentioned in the submission. So what about the rest? And factoring in being able to buy two 7970s for the price of one Titan?
I suspect Nvidia's advantage is their proprietary software like PhysX and other software used in high-end computing or scientific-computing, and possibly they scale better (or simply there are Nvidia-supported solutions) when you want to add dozens of cards together. Is this the case? Because I don't see how one can claim AMD needs to "catch up" in performance if you're looking solely on a card-by-card basis.
Edit: Comparing http://clbenchmark.com/device-info.jsp?config=14470292&t... and http://clbenchmark.com/device-info.jsp?config=11905561&t... (easier comparison: http://clbenchmark.com/compare.jsp?config_0=11905561&con...), the only ones where Nvidia trounces are on Mergesort and memory usage of Gaussian blur; mergesort is mentioned in the submission. So what about the rest? And factoring in being able to buy two 7970s for the price of one Titan?
Drivers, ISV certification and SDKs. Ask any user of AMD on Linux workstations what it's like. Then compare the experience of nVidia users.
AMD has the superior hardware in many ways, but their software just isn't quite there yet in my personal opinion.
AMD has the superior hardware in many ways, but their software just isn't quite there yet in my personal opinion.
So how do I use this with the new and modern Radeon HD7990 card?
Hmm looks like there is no CUDA library for it...
(flagging post for misleading title)
Hmm looks like there is no CUDA library for it...
(flagging post for misleading title)
This is clearly an amazing resource on advanced GPU programming regardless of programming language.
To the best of my knowledge, CUDA is Nvidia only. You would need to look at OpenCL or something similar. I guess the techniques presented in the article could be ported to OpenCL.
I think that's the point... The title conveys a more general article.
Right, CUDA is Nvidia only (8-series and above, so basically anything after 2006). The stuff in the article can totally be replicated in OpenCL. Especially since OpenCL 1.1 where buffers can be shared between GL and CL contexts, which IIRC was the only real technical capability CUDA had that OpenCL did not.
This is one way to run CUDA on your Radeon card:
https://code.google.com/p/gpuocelot/
Although there's a note on that page saying that they're actively seeking developers for the AMD back-end, so I don't know how solid the support is.
Although there's a note on that page saying that they're actively seeking developers for the AMD back-end, so I don't know how solid the support is.
What do you suggest, he writes a new title it will get flagged because it does not have the original title (or it gets reverted).
Suggest you undo your flag or write a better article with a better title.
Suggest you undo your flag or write a better article with a better title.
OK undone my flag.
However, it was flagged originally because it promotes bad way forward for the community who want to learn GPU computing. It is pushes material for one company NVIDIA and its products and SDK, while there is an alternative open standard.
Instead of embracing it they continue splitting the community and do it an deceiving way "Modern GPU"? I gave an example of a modern GPU that this doesn't apply.
> a better article with a better title.
That is a bit dis-ingenious. Every time someone is wrong on the internet I will not go and spend hours re-writing their stuff but better. I thought a vote of flag was supposed to achieve some of that. Yes, it is a lot better to contribute and improve but I pick my battles, and filtering out bad stuff is another way of contributing.
However, it was flagged originally because it promotes bad way forward for the community who want to learn GPU computing. It is pushes material for one company NVIDIA and its products and SDK, while there is an alternative open standard.
Instead of embracing it they continue splitting the community and do it an deceiving way "Modern GPU"? I gave an example of a modern GPU that this doesn't apply.
> a better article with a better title.
That is a bit dis-ingenious. Every time someone is wrong on the internet I will not go and spend hours re-writing their stuff but better. I thought a vote of flag was supposed to achieve some of that. Yes, it is a lot better to contribute and improve but I pick my battles, and filtering out bad stuff is another way of contributing.
Guide looks very well written, and I'm actually studying parallel programming right now...bookmarked.
Side Note: Maybe this is Nvidia's way to promote sales, since AMD cards sold like crazy cause of the mining craze.
Side Note: Maybe this is Nvidia's way to promote sales, since AMD cards sold like crazy cause of the mining craze.
It's not reactionary: nvidia invested heavily in getting to market first and advertising to the HPC crowd and they have been reaping the rewards of a monopoly for a few years now. Their latest high-end cards are dramatically more expensive (vs AMD at the same raw computational power) while offering completely crippled GPGPU capabilities. I recall incredulity on IRC when people found that their new 6xx cards were a step backwards from the corresponding 5xx cards for their GPGPU apps. Pro media & HPC users fork over the cash for Tesla because they can't jump to AMD due to their legacy CUDA code. Gamers don't care since they don't use double precision arithmetic.
The bitcoin community was the only one nimble enough to switch to AMD. For those of us in academia, we'll be paying the piper for the foreseeable future :/
The bitcoin community was the only one nimble enough to switch to AMD. For those of us in academia, we'll be paying the piper for the foreseeable future :/
Bitcoin miners flocked to AMD because the SHA-256 algorithm utilizes a 32-bit right rotate operation that AMD cards could execute in one clock cycle, while NVidia cards took ~3 cycles to do so.
At this point it doesn't really matter since GPU mining is obsolete.
Also, what's wrong with NVidia's GPGPU capabilities? The last time I had to write GPU code, I found that CUDA was much more mature - and much more pleasant to write than the equivalent OpenCL. Also, the benefits of being able to run OpenCL code on multiple compute platforms were being realized by CUDA with the development of a PTX to x86 compiler.
At this point it doesn't really matter since GPU mining is obsolete.
Also, what's wrong with NVidia's GPGPU capabilities? The last time I had to write GPU code, I found that CUDA was much more mature - and much more pleasant to write than the equivalent OpenCL. Also, the benefits of being able to run OpenCL code on multiple compute platforms were being realized by CUDA with the development of a PTX to x86 compiler.
>Bitcoin miners flocked to AMD because the SHA-256 algorithm utilizes a 32-bit right rotate operation that AMD cards could execute in one clock cycle, while NVidia cards took ~3 cycles to do so.
That would have made the difference even larger, but even at 1:1 instruction timing AMD would have had a large price advantage so long as we're talking about the last 2 generations of cards or so. If the price/performance optimum lies further back than that, it may well have fallen at a point in time when AMD / NVidia were closer to price/performance parity.
To clarify, by "performance" I mean "performance for my needs" which means "double precision float performance."
> Also, what's wrong with NVidia's GPGPU capabilities?
The price per double-precision FLOP was off by a factor of four at the consumer level last time I went shopping and the number of DFLOPS available at the consumer level was capped lower. It seemed like a move to force penny-pinching CUDA-dependent academics to upgrade to teslas.
> The last time I had to write GPU code, I found that CUDA was much more mature - and much more pleasant to write than the equivalent OpenCL.
It still is, but the gap has closed for many use cases (including mine). I'm not saying that CUDA isn't/wasn't a reasonable choice, especially a few years back, just that we are now paying the hidden price that comes from allowing a monopoly to develop.
That would have made the difference even larger, but even at 1:1 instruction timing AMD would have had a large price advantage so long as we're talking about the last 2 generations of cards or so. If the price/performance optimum lies further back than that, it may well have fallen at a point in time when AMD / NVidia were closer to price/performance parity.
To clarify, by "performance" I mean "performance for my needs" which means "double precision float performance."
> Also, what's wrong with NVidia's GPGPU capabilities?
The price per double-precision FLOP was off by a factor of four at the consumer level last time I went shopping and the number of DFLOPS available at the consumer level was capped lower. It seemed like a move to force penny-pinching CUDA-dependent academics to upgrade to teslas.
> The last time I had to write GPU code, I found that CUDA was much more mature - and much more pleasant to write than the equivalent OpenCL.
It still is, but the gap has closed for many use cases (including mine). I'm not saying that CUDA isn't/wasn't a reasonable choice, especially a few years back, just that we are now paying the hidden price that comes from allowing a monopoly to develop.
It's not just about right rotation, it's also about architectural differences: the AMD cards have more ALUs to work with.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Why_a_GPU_mines_faster_than_a_CPU...
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Why_a_GPU_mines_faster_than_a_CPU...
Previous HN discussion:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3004446
The url linked there redirects to the new site, but the old site is still available through the Wayback Machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.moderngpu.com/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3004446
The url linked there redirects to the new site, but the old site is still available through the Wayback Machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.moderngpu.com/
("Modern GPU is code and commentary intended to promote new and productive ways of thinking about GPU computing. This project is a library, an algorithms book, a tutorial, and a best-practices guide.")
Perhaps something like "Modern GPU: NVIDIA's guide to making effective use of CUDA"?