Good sleep, good learning, good life(supermemo.com)
supermemo.com
Good sleep, good learning, good life
http://www.supermemo.com/articles/sleep.htm
126 comments
Yup, my wife & I co-sleep with our 5-month old (same reasons as you mentioned) and also our 3 year old (who could have her own bed if she wanted, but she likes being in the big nest), and generally we all sleep well.
We researched risks beforehand, and found (no links because this is from memory...) that it would be a bad idea if we used alcohol/sleeping pills/etc., or were obese -- we don't/aren't, and in the 3+ years we've been co-sleeping we've never even bumped a child in the night and upset it.
I know people (and hear about people) who accidentally punch their spouses, sleepwalk, etc. during the night -- if you have a history of that kind of thing, I wouldn't recommend it. If you don't, this is a nice setup. My personal experience is that I'm hyperaware of the baby in the bed even while mostly-asleep (like when changing position during the night), and in the morning have very foggy memories of turning over very carefully.
We generally head to bed gradually starting around 10pm (but I often read the older girl more stories downstairs while my wife gets the baby to sleep first), and the kids wake up anywhere from 8:30 to 10:30 the next morning -- usually later rather than earlier, so I get some work done in a quiet house before they get up.
Side-note: we got a co-sleeping bed (a crib that attaches to the side of the bed, basically) but it quickly became a toychest; the babies didn't want to be set aside. Now we sleep sideways in the bed (headboard/footboard means no one rolls out the "sides") and the grown-ups put their feet in the co-sleeping attachment.
edit: forgot to mention that obesity is a risk factor for co-sleeping.
We researched risks beforehand, and found (no links because this is from memory...) that it would be a bad idea if we used alcohol/sleeping pills/etc., or were obese -- we don't/aren't, and in the 3+ years we've been co-sleeping we've never even bumped a child in the night and upset it.
I know people (and hear about people) who accidentally punch their spouses, sleepwalk, etc. during the night -- if you have a history of that kind of thing, I wouldn't recommend it. If you don't, this is a nice setup. My personal experience is that I'm hyperaware of the baby in the bed even while mostly-asleep (like when changing position during the night), and in the morning have very foggy memories of turning over very carefully.
We generally head to bed gradually starting around 10pm (but I often read the older girl more stories downstairs while my wife gets the baby to sleep first), and the kids wake up anywhere from 8:30 to 10:30 the next morning -- usually later rather than earlier, so I get some work done in a quiet house before they get up.
Side-note: we got a co-sleeping bed (a crib that attaches to the side of the bed, basically) but it quickly became a toychest; the babies didn't want to be set aside. Now we sleep sideways in the bed (headboard/footboard means no one rolls out the "sides") and the grown-ups put their feet in the co-sleeping attachment.
edit: forgot to mention that obesity is a risk factor for co-sleeping.
We tried this (our daughter is almost 6 months old) but every bloody doctor, nurse, family member etc. that we discussed this with put the every living terror in us about accidentally killing her.
The baby slept well, we did not.
The baby slept well, we did not.
This is normal, family, doctors, and friends are dangerous:
* Hey, you no longer have enough milk! Try giving some more integration with artificial milk.
* You'll end killing her because of co-sleeping!
* Co-sleeping will increase chances of SIDS!
* Let her cry, otherwise you'll always carry her in your arms!
* <Other bad advices here>
And so forth. My advice is: don't listen to them, they tell you this with good intentions, but the reality is, for a shitload of years since we exist small babyes co-sleeped with their mothers. This is how it's supposed to work.
* Hey, you no longer have enough milk! Try giving some more integration with artificial milk.
* You'll end killing her because of co-sleeping!
* Co-sleeping will increase chances of SIDS!
* Let her cry, otherwise you'll always carry her in your arms!
* <Other bad advices here>
And so forth. My advice is: don't listen to them, they tell you this with good intentions, but the reality is, for a shitload of years since we exist small babyes co-sleeped with their mothers. This is how it's supposed to work.
For "a shitload" of years infant mortality rate was >15% too. How things used to be is not a good indicator of optimal approaches.
A scientifically-minded person should not prefer random internet commentators to doctors' when the sole argument proferred by the former is that things used to be a certain way, therefore it's ok.
A scientifically-minded person should not prefer random internet commentators to doctors' when the sole argument proferred by the former is that things used to be a certain way, therefore it's ok.
I appreciate the sentiment, but I don't think you're reading the parent's post very charitably. They aren't saying, "things used to be a certain way, therefore it's OK." The way I read it, they're suggesting that, if the behavior really killed that many infants, it would be weeded out by the biocultural evolutionary process.
If you actually look into the research instead of offloading your opinions to the experts, you'll see that the SIDS research is not well done. As I recall, the work on which this AAP decision was based included sleeping in a couch and sleeping while intoxicated - not exactly best practices. SIDS is basically just a catch-all term for "we don't know what killed the baby".
If you actually look into the research instead of offloading your opinions to the experts, you'll see that the SIDS research is not well done. As I recall, the work on which this AAP decision was based included sleeping in a couch and sleeping while intoxicated - not exactly best practices. SIDS is basically just a catch-all term for "we don't know what killed the baby".
> if the behavior really killed that many infants, it would be weeded out by the biocultural evolutionary process.
That would also be a terrible argument. To name just one example, shaken baby syndrome still exists.
> If you actually look into the research instead of offloading your opinions to the experts
I've briefly looked into the research, and it seems to mesh pretty well with what the experts are saying. Now you are saying that it "isn't well done". That may be true. But I'm not seeing anything that shows co-sleeping to be equally safe with a crib in the same room. So I have a few possibilities: all the experts are wrong and all the studies that are being done on the issue are defective. Or, SIDS is probably somewhat related to co-sleeping. Unless there is some more evidence that I'm not seeing, I'm going to have to assign the latter a higher probability of being true.
Also, let's face it, part of the reason people offload opinions to experts is that experts are trained in analyzing and processing data in their domain to a greater degree than non-experts. There needs to be some pretty compelling evidence to override their views.
That would also be a terrible argument. To name just one example, shaken baby syndrome still exists.
> If you actually look into the research instead of offloading your opinions to the experts
I've briefly looked into the research, and it seems to mesh pretty well with what the experts are saying. Now you are saying that it "isn't well done". That may be true. But I'm not seeing anything that shows co-sleeping to be equally safe with a crib in the same room. So I have a few possibilities: all the experts are wrong and all the studies that are being done on the issue are defective. Or, SIDS is probably somewhat related to co-sleeping. Unless there is some more evidence that I'm not seeing, I'm going to have to assign the latter a higher probability of being true.
Also, let's face it, part of the reason people offload opinions to experts is that experts are trained in analyzing and processing data in their domain to a greater degree than non-experts. There needs to be some pretty compelling evidence to override their views.
Here's the details from the previously mentioned study on co-sleeping that shows it can be safe or safer than non-co-sleeping:
"The proportion of SIDS infants found cosleeping in a bed with parents who had drunk two units or less of alcohol and taken no drugs was no different from that of the random control infants (18% v 16%). If parents who regularly smoked were further excluded, then five of the SIDS infants (6%) were found in this less risky cosleeping environment compared with nine of the random control infants (10%)."
http://www.bmj.com/content/339/bmj.b3666
TLDR: In this study, SIDS was more likely if the co-sleeper had ingested drugs/alcohol, if the sleeping occurred on a couch, or both. Sober co-sleeping on a bed was as safe or safer than not co-sleeping.
http://www.bmj.com/content/339/bmj.b3666
TLDR: In this study, SIDS was more likely if the co-sleeper had ingested drugs/alcohol, if the sleeping occurred on a couch, or both. Sober co-sleeping on a bed was as safe or safer than not co-sleeping.
> That would also be a terrible argument. To name just one example, shaken baby syndrome still exists.
(Just to play devil's advocate) Yes, but one can surmise an evolutionary reason for that - a colicky child is more likely to be the victim in that scenario; likewise, a colicky child is less likely to be healthy.
A better argument may be that prior to 'modern' medicine, bassinets (or an analog) were spontaneously popularized in various cultures -- (if that's true).
> all the experts are wrong and all the studies that are being done on the issue are defective.
Many doctor's groups positions, when confronted with inconclusive evidence, tend to (rightfully) stand on the side of caution. A great example is caffeiene (as well as many other foods) in pregnancy. Little evidence for harm, but its possible. So its a little less harsh than all experts being dead wrong and studies defective; more likely all experts playing it safe and studies inconclusive (if that is the case).
(/devils advocate)
(Just to play devil's advocate) Yes, but one can surmise an evolutionary reason for that - a colicky child is more likely to be the victim in that scenario; likewise, a colicky child is less likely to be healthy.
A better argument may be that prior to 'modern' medicine, bassinets (or an analog) were spontaneously popularized in various cultures -- (if that's true).
> all the experts are wrong and all the studies that are being done on the issue are defective.
Many doctor's groups positions, when confronted with inconclusive evidence, tend to (rightfully) stand on the side of caution. A great example is caffeiene (as well as many other foods) in pregnancy. Little evidence for harm, but its possible. So its a little less harsh than all experts being dead wrong and studies defective; more likely all experts playing it safe and studies inconclusive (if that is the case).
(/devils advocate)
A scientifically-minded person realizes that doctors people too, with their own biases, agendas, and misinformation. A scientifically-minded person would seek out research to determine the best course of action.
Of course, I would never deny that people should do their own research. Based on my googling, they would probably find that there's a lot of research to back up the doctors' advice, and plenty of anecdotes to back up co-sleeping advocates.
Certainly the default position should be that medical professionals know what they are talking about for folks who are not inclined to do the actual research.
Certainly the default position should be that medical professionals know what they are talking about for folks who are not inclined to do the actual research.
> Certainly the default position should be that medical professionals know what they are talking about
In general I agree with you. When you're faced with a large amount of literature from many doctors and specialists in the field you should be able to assume that someone has done the research, and that most of the medical profession agree.
It'd be great if more people could read and understand research. But we're stuck with sub-optimal reporting, and people struggling to understand what is really meant by "50% reduction in risk" or "20 times less likely to die".
Having said all that: Here's an off topic rant.
There are very many examples of doctors not using scientific method but relying on their "expertise".[1]
This has caused significant harm to many people.
Doctors tend not to talk about stuff that is obvious nonsense, and a lot of their interventions sound plausible. But that's the sneaky danger! We know woo is woo, and if people want to fund research into it good luck to them. But for things that sound plausible? That's exactly when we need good research, because common sense and expertise is fallible.
This isn't from doctors trying to deceive people. It's from good clinicians who are not aware of their limits.
[1] A great example is "Arthroscopic Knee Surgery No Better Than Placebo Surgery", from about 2000.
In general I agree with you. When you're faced with a large amount of literature from many doctors and specialists in the field you should be able to assume that someone has done the research, and that most of the medical profession agree.
It'd be great if more people could read and understand research. But we're stuck with sub-optimal reporting, and people struggling to understand what is really meant by "50% reduction in risk" or "20 times less likely to die".
Having said all that: Here's an off topic rant.
There are very many examples of doctors not using scientific method but relying on their "expertise".[1]
This has caused significant harm to many people.
Doctors tend not to talk about stuff that is obvious nonsense, and a lot of their interventions sound plausible. But that's the sneaky danger! We know woo is woo, and if people want to fund research into it good luck to them. But for things that sound plausible? That's exactly when we need good research, because common sense and expertise is fallible.
This isn't from doctors trying to deceive people. It's from good clinicians who are not aware of their limits.
[1] A great example is "Arthroscopic Knee Surgery No Better Than Placebo Surgery", from about 2000.
A person with common sense would look at the mass of a baby, and the mass of an adult human. They'd consider their tendencies to sleep heavily, and perhaps conclude that the adult could easily roll over on the baby, and kill it. Or knock it off the edge of the bed, and kill it.
Hell, if you do the research there are plenty instances of people punching their sleeping partner in the face during sleep, because they were having a dream (I almost did it once, with my fist landing right next to my girlfriend's head in her pillow. I thought I was having a fist fight, but I was dreaming)
So, could a human kill a baby by sleeping with it? I don't know. Could a swallow carry a coconut?
Hell, if you do the research there are plenty instances of people punching their sleeping partner in the face during sleep, because they were having a dream (I almost did it once, with my fist landing right next to my girlfriend's head in her pillow. I thought I was having a fist fight, but I was dreaming)
So, could a human kill a baby by sleeping with it? I don't know. Could a swallow carry a coconut?
> A person with common sense would look at the mass of a baby, and the mass of an adult human.
Weight/mass has very little to do with it. The baby is never 'crushed' it is 'smothered'.
Also when you smother a baby (accidentally or intentional) it squirms. So common sense would indicate the key factor is how heavily you sleep, and how easily could you role onto the baby.
If the babies head is the same level as your head, the chances of rolling on top, would require some pretty intense dreaming.
Knocking a baby off the bed is very unlikely to kill a baby (they are in a relaxed state, and have flexible bone structure/skull).
Research indicates co-sleeping is dangerous when the adult has consumed alcohol or drugs (i.e is sleeping very heavily).
Weight/mass has very little to do with it. The baby is never 'crushed' it is 'smothered'.
Also when you smother a baby (accidentally or intentional) it squirms. So common sense would indicate the key factor is how heavily you sleep, and how easily could you role onto the baby.
If the babies head is the same level as your head, the chances of rolling on top, would require some pretty intense dreaming.
Knocking a baby off the bed is very unlikely to kill a baby (they are in a relaxed state, and have flexible bone structure/skull).
Research indicates co-sleeping is dangerous when the adult has consumed alcohol or drugs (i.e is sleeping very heavily).
I personally would be a horrible co-sleeper.
I can set 5 alarms and hear none. I only wake up at the end of a sleep cycle, no matter what's happening around me.
I can set 5 alarms and hear none. I only wake up at the end of a sleep cycle, no matter what's happening around me.
Incidentally I just read the child rearing chapter of Jared Diamond's latest book about traditional societies. Turns out they all tend to co-sleep, but usually they sleep on the ground or on hard mattresses. As JD points out, it is easier to notice that you have rolled onto your child with a hard mattress.
This is an excellent point.
I just bought a new mattress and I can say for sure, after having slept on a $100 target futon for the past 2 years, that I'd not know if a baby was underneath me on this one...
I just bought a new mattress and I can say for sure, after having slept on a $100 target futon for the past 2 years, that I'd not know if a baby was underneath me on this one...
Doctors are usually learned people who have a lot of helpful (and often lifesaving) advice.
But the fact is, being a doctor doesn't make you an expert in nutrition or diet, and it certainly doesn't make you an expert in things like co-sleeping.
I'm pretty sure the only deaths you'll have these days as a result of co-sleeping is when one of the parents smoked, took drugs or was obese (and usually a combination).
But the fact is, being a doctor doesn't make you an expert in nutrition or diet, and it certainly doesn't make you an expert in things like co-sleeping.
I'm pretty sure the only deaths you'll have these days as a result of co-sleeping is when one of the parents smoked, took drugs or was obese (and usually a combination).
I agree with what you say, but in my experience here in Sicily, I'm sure there is also a good percentage of bad faith. In the hospital where Greta (my daughter) was born, and later in doctors waiting rooms, I saw a lot of mothers actively discouraged to breastfeed their children in a way or the other. Because co-sleeping is a very important factor in the success rate of breastfeeding I wonder if there is also some connection with many doctors discouraging it.
I know this looks odd but I know first-hand people working inside the hospital and I got internal acknowledges about the fact that hospitals received pressurs in the context of breastfeeding once they started to encourage it too broadly. Artificial milk is a 50$/week tax they are able to get from most newborns for months.
I know this looks odd but I know first-hand people working inside the hospital and I got internal acknowledges about the fact that hospitals received pressurs in the context of breastfeeding once they started to encourage it too broadly. Artificial milk is a 50$/week tax they are able to get from most newborns for months.
Hmm perhaps I'm just a cynic, but if health care providers are coming out with such garbage as discouraging breast feeding, it's got to make you wonder whether they want people to be sicker!
Thats surprising, here in US, atleast at Kaiser hopital highly recommend breast feeding, and they offer lots of free support/classes. And surprisingly they don't recommend cosleeping.
Probably not because of co-sleeping, many researches think that co-sleeping shows a correlation without actual causality.
That's not how it works. That research shows only correlation does not mean research shows ~causality. Correlation does not imply causation, but it definitely suggests it absent other explanations.
It would be hard to study causality in this instance because of medical ethics. You cannot assign a treatment that you believe to be more likely to cause an infant to die, so RCTs are impossible in this domain.
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/GeneralPediatrics/164... -- co-sleeping babies are 21.7 times more likely to die from SIDS than non-co-sleeping babies, according to this study. That definitely doesn't prove causality. But the correlation is certainly waggling its eyebrows suggestively in causality's direction.
It would be hard to study causality in this instance because of medical ethics. You cannot assign a treatment that you believe to be more likely to cause an infant to die, so RCTs are impossible in this domain.
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/GeneralPediatrics/164... -- co-sleeping babies are 21.7 times more likely to die from SIDS than non-co-sleeping babies, according to this study. That definitely doesn't prove causality. But the correlation is certainly waggling its eyebrows suggestively in causality's direction.
From the study you cite: "Much of the elevated risk appeared to be attributable to drug and alcohol use among the parents".
There are parents that co-sleep because they are disorganized, drunk, and so forth, not even able to put the children in their bed. That's the reason why probably there is no causality.
There are parents that co-sleep because they are disorganized, drunk, and so forth, not even able to put the children in their bed. That's the reason why probably there is no causality.
Wait, so a large portion of the risk comes from drugs and alcohol, therefore you are going to ignore whatever risks come directly from co-sleeping? Am I misunderstanding your argument?
I think what he's saying is that co-sleeping provides benefits to his family. While there are risks, it's difficult to discern what the increased risk is in the absence of drugs and alcohol. He feels that there may not be a causal link between SIDS and co-sleeping for families who take co-sleeping seriously and take steps to minimize the known factors in SIDS.
It's not a great argument necessarily, but people accept additional risk of injury to their kids all the time if the benefits outweigh the risks.
It's not a great argument necessarily, but people accept additional risk of injury to their kids all the time if the benefits outweigh the risks.
Some of those are so infuriating. Luckily by now there are also some experts who speak out against the "let her cry" theory. Turns out that feeling safe and cared for actually gives kids more confidence and in the long run than being left alone for long stretches of time.
We also had a close shave with the milk thing, but there are also now experts who help with and promote breast feeding. But the "standard docs" are rather quick with "just add artificial food". Even though they should now that it's better for the immune system to be breast fed (there actually is research on that).
We also had a close shave with the milk thing, but there are also now experts who help with and promote breast feeding. But the "standard docs" are rather quick with "just add artificial food". Even though they should now that it's better for the immune system to be breast fed (there actually is research on that).
The "cry it out" method (or CIO as it's annoying referred to on the baby forums -- acronyms central) does not actually advocate leaving the child for long stretches of time. It is a common misconception based on people not actually reading about the method, or the person who originally advocated it (Ferber).
For us, we had to do it at around 4 months or we would have been in serious trouble. 4 months of averaging 2-3 hours of uninterrupted sleep per week was wreaking havoc on our lives, and no one (including baby) was happy. The only way she would ever sleep is in our bed next to mum, and this was not sustainable, and terrified us every single night.
We read all of the no-cry sleep methods, and ferber. We realized that we were essentially doing all of the no-cry methods already (swaddle, side sleep, white noise, pick-up and soothe immediately, co-sleep, cradle at the side of the bed) and we tried each one for weeks.
None of it worked. At all.
For the Ferber method, you only leave the child for a few minutes at a time and gradually increase it. In our case, she was never left alone for longer than 10 minutes (we couldn't do any longer) and we did it over weeks and as gradually as we could. Now she sleeps in 4+ hours segments regularly which, to us, has been a god send.
To each their own. No one method is foolproof as all babies are different and I've learned through this that I no longer trust "experts" or anecdotal evidence. I will use it as a guideline, but adjust based on my own observations. I don't think any other approach works.
For us, we had to do it at around 4 months or we would have been in serious trouble. 4 months of averaging 2-3 hours of uninterrupted sleep per week was wreaking havoc on our lives, and no one (including baby) was happy. The only way she would ever sleep is in our bed next to mum, and this was not sustainable, and terrified us every single night.
We read all of the no-cry sleep methods, and ferber. We realized that we were essentially doing all of the no-cry methods already (swaddle, side sleep, white noise, pick-up and soothe immediately, co-sleep, cradle at the side of the bed) and we tried each one for weeks.
None of it worked. At all.
For the Ferber method, you only leave the child for a few minutes at a time and gradually increase it. In our case, she was never left alone for longer than 10 minutes (we couldn't do any longer) and we did it over weeks and as gradually as we could. Now she sleeps in 4+ hours segments regularly which, to us, has been a god send.
To each their own. No one method is foolproof as all babies are different and I've learned through this that I no longer trust "experts" or anecdotal evidence. I will use it as a guideline, but adjust based on my own observations. I don't think any other approach works.
every bloody doctor, nurse, family member etc. that we discussed this with put the every living terror in us about accidentally killing her
The reason is probably http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_infant_death_syndrome - no one is exactly sure why some babies dies without a visible reason, but there are some correlations.
Sharing a bed with parents or other siblings may increase risk for SIDS, but the mechanism remains unclear
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20148046 The risk of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) has fallen dramatically in the "Back to Sleep" era; however, half the cases now occur when the infant has been sleeping in bed with another person.
The reason is probably http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_infant_death_syndrome - no one is exactly sure why some babies dies without a visible reason, but there are some correlations.
Sharing a bed with parents or other siblings may increase risk for SIDS, but the mechanism remains unclear
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20148046 The risk of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) has fallen dramatically in the "Back to Sleep" era; however, half the cases now occur when the infant has been sleeping in bed with another person.
"Safe Sleep". Hopefully that campaign of education will eliminate the idea that these infants are just randomly dying and promote -- the mechanism is not unclear, just nobody wants to tell a grieving parent that they are responsible for death of their child.
Are you sure? We are talking about children that after autopsy are not found with a clear cause of death. See the wikipedia page about that.
We know all this, which is why I didn't sleep while Mum and baby were in bed. It was the only way that we could get my daughter to sleep for a few hours at a time. All other methods (co-sleeping devices, cradle at the side of the bed, crib at the bottom) were not successful (or marginally better).
The simple fact was that she needed to be close to Mum.
Things are better now, but it honesty felt like we were all going to drop dead at around the 2 month mark. I've never been so exhausted in my life.
The simple fact was that she needed to be close to Mum.
Things are better now, but it honesty felt like we were all going to drop dead at around the 2 month mark. I've never been so exhausted in my life.
[deleted]
Ditto.
When I had my first son my wife and all nearly killed each other due to lack of sleep, we would take shifts so there were a pair of eyes on him always. At least until he was around 7 months old. SIDS is real, and is not worth it.
The same thing happened when my daughter was born. Heh, well, with my baby girl I never slept. I kept an eye on her like a HAWK.
When I had my first son my wife and all nearly killed each other due to lack of sleep, we would take shifts so there were a pair of eyes on him always. At least until he was around 7 months old. SIDS is real, and is not worth it.
The same thing happened when my daughter was born. Heh, well, with my baby girl I never slept. I kept an eye on her like a HAWK.
I feel like there should be an easy and failsafe technical solution to this.
Companies like Angelcare sell a "baby movement monitor" sleep pad that sounds an alarm if the infant stops moving for 30 seconds. It's sensitive enough to detect movement from breathing alone.
There are a lot of them, but nothing replaces skin-on-skin touch. In our case, it was the only way we could get my daughter to sleep.
We were worried about this with our first. So we placed her in a low/soft walled inner cot box between us in bed. It gave a boundary you could easily feel when sleeping and seemed to give the best of both worlds.
The other strict rule we had was if someone had a few drinks, the baby slept in the cot or you slept on the couch. A nurse told us that largely these smothering baby tragedies occur when someone has had a few drinks.
The other strict rule we had was if someone had a few drinks, the baby slept in the cot or you slept on the couch. A nurse told us that largely these smothering baby tragedies occur when someone has had a few drinks.
Our doctors told us that mothers don't kill their babies while they sleep, due to some instinct. Fathers might, but apparently mostly if they are drunk (so we've been told).
What we had and loved is a "baby bay" - basically a half open crib that docks onto the bed (on mommy's side obviously). That way the child has instant access to mommy, but you can't accidentally roll into the crib and smother her because the crib is too small for mommy.
What we had and loved is a "baby bay" - basically a half open crib that docks onto the bed (on mommy's side obviously). That way the child has instant access to mommy, but you can't accidentally roll into the crib and smother her because the crib is too small for mommy.
I know a pediatrician who advises patients' parents the same thing: co-sleeping is dangerous. This doctor admitted to me that they co-sleep sometimes though.
Just read the part about breast feeding in Jared Diamond's latest book on traditional societies. Interestingly apparently most traditional societies use on demand feeding, the baby is always within reach of the breast and can drink whenever it wants. The average seems to be that the mom still wakes twice a night, but the baby drinks 14 times, most of the time without even waking the mother.
I suppose it would be difficult with modern beds because I suppose most mothers have some sort of pads on their breast to avoid lactating into the mattress.
I suppose it would be difficult with modern beds because I suppose most mothers have some sort of pads on their breast to avoid lactating into the mattress.
This practice might backfire when your daughter is old enough for sleep training (two months from now or so). Most babies at that age can sleep through the night without feeding, but wake up due to sleep patterns and become very fussy as now they use food as a method to soothe themselves http://www.babycenter.com/0_baby-sleep-training-the-basics_1...
Thanks for the advice, we indeed are planning to have her bed very near to our bed and start to move her in the other bed gradually as she starts to be 6 months old or alike.
[deleted]
I've struggled with sleep issues since I was a small child; even after doing all the reasonable exercise/caffeine/no-bright-lights things people recommended, my brain sometimes just wouldn't shut down. After some introspection, I came to realize that my body seemed be on a 25 hour day, and it just wanted to stay awake an hour later each time.
Then I read gwern's article on melatonin[1], and it changed everything. I don't get the shorter sleep he describes, but I take it once or twice a week to give me what feels like complete control over my sleep cycle. In addition the alertness/grumpiness benefits, it is truly great just being able to go to sleep and wake up at the same time as my wife (who seems to be on a 23-hour day).
[1] http://www.gwern.net/Melatonin
Then I read gwern's article on melatonin[1], and it changed everything. I don't get the shorter sleep he describes, but I take it once or twice a week to give me what feels like complete control over my sleep cycle. In addition the alertness/grumpiness benefits, it is truly great just being able to go to sleep and wake up at the same time as my wife (who seems to be on a 23-hour day).
[1] http://www.gwern.net/Melatonin
I haven't read gwern's article, but I did discover that when my sleep cycle gets weird, a few nights with a melatonin supplement seems to reset things.
I discovered it by accident. Years ago I was having terrible patterns, so out of desperation I tried melatonin. I'm a little paranoid of taking anything to the point of dependency so I would only do a couple of nights in a row, then not use it until I needed it.
It works quite well for me this way, but I must say that occasionally I'll have dreams that are vivid and intense (meaning it get's my adrenaline going). Not nightmares, more anxiety-like.
I discovered it by accident. Years ago I was having terrible patterns, so out of desperation I tried melatonin. I'm a little paranoid of taking anything to the point of dependency so I would only do a couple of nights in a row, then not use it until I needed it.
It works quite well for me this way, but I must say that occasionally I'll have dreams that are vivid and intense (meaning it get's my adrenaline going). Not nightmares, more anxiety-like.
Melatonin is a prescription only med in the UK.
I haven't asked a doctor for it, and I don't know what their reaction would be.
When I've struggled with insomnia I've been given advice about sleep hygiene; then had someone give me help with sleep hygiene; then got a prescription for zopiclone.
That was great for me, at that time. (I really needed sleep!!) but unfortunately the care got handed back to my GP and he was careless about the repeat prescriptions. SO, I ended up being able to get it for about a year. Luckily I didn't suffer too much from it, but some people find zopiclone addictive and there are other risks from it.
What I'd really want, before getting to zopiclone (and probably before melatonin) would be access to a cognitive behaviour therapy course for insomnia.
I haven't asked a doctor for it, and I don't know what their reaction would be.
When I've struggled with insomnia I've been given advice about sleep hygiene; then had someone give me help with sleep hygiene; then got a prescription for zopiclone.
That was great for me, at that time. (I really needed sleep!!) but unfortunately the care got handed back to my GP and he was careless about the repeat prescriptions. SO, I ended up being able to get it for about a year. Luckily I didn't suffer too much from it, but some people find zopiclone addictive and there are other risks from it.
What I'd really want, before getting to zopiclone (and probably before melatonin) would be access to a cognitive behaviour therapy course for insomnia.
Have you heard of sleep.io (online automated CBT course for insomnia)? No connection, just sounded like something that might be helpful and cheaper/easier than getting actual CBT.
I've had a lot of success combining melatonin, low light before bedtime, drinking a moderate amount of water before bed, and f.lux (software). I use a heavier dose Friday+Saturday night to help me stay with a normal sleep schedule.
I'm frustrated at how frequently gwern is assumed to be male. If you aren't sure of someone's gender, please use gender-neutral pronouns. So many of her articles have been posted to HN lately, yet I've only seen masculine pronouns used to refer to her.
Gwern is male; not only is Gwern a boy's name, making it a reasonable assumption, but he publicly declares himself as male.
For example:
https://plus.google.com/103530621949492999968/about
http://www.last.fm/user/gwern
For example:
https://plus.google.com/103530621949492999968/about
http://www.last.fm/user/gwern
What are you talking about? Gwern's definitely male.
[deleted]
A little bit of exercise is something many people are lacking.
I have had a long commute (1.5h one way) for a little over a year now. Not long into it I noticed that I wasn't sleeping well. Not that I was sleeping that well to begin with but it got worse.
My day was sit in the car, sit at a desk, sit in the car, sit at a desk at home. My weekends were basically sit at a desk at home with some various chores sprinkled around.
So I bought a cheap exercise bike. I use it about 20 minutes when I wake up, and 20 minutes when I get home. I sleep far better. I don't wake up all bright eyed but I've never been a morning person. However once I do get up I feel like I'm well rested. I also don't feel like I'm going to fall asleep in the middle of the afternoon, or worse during the drive home, anymore either.
I have had a long commute (1.5h one way) for a little over a year now. Not long into it I noticed that I wasn't sleeping well. Not that I was sleeping that well to begin with but it got worse.
My day was sit in the car, sit at a desk, sit in the car, sit at a desk at home. My weekends were basically sit at a desk at home with some various chores sprinkled around.
So I bought a cheap exercise bike. I use it about 20 minutes when I wake up, and 20 minutes when I get home. I sleep far better. I don't wake up all bright eyed but I've never been a morning person. However once I do get up I feel like I'm well rested. I also don't feel like I'm going to fall asleep in the middle of the afternoon, or worse during the drive home, anymore either.
1.5 hours each way, 3 hours a day, 15 hours a week, 750 hours a year. That's 31 days of commuting.
My advice is either change jobs or move home, that commute isn't sustainable, you will end up ruining your health, relationships and work.
My advice is either change jobs or move home, that commute isn't sustainable, you will end up ruining your health, relationships and work.
Saw this reply coming. Already looking at moving.
Thing is, I wasn't sleeping the greatest before this job. The place I was at before was less than 30 minute commute. I needed the exercise either way.
The exercise bike was a much cheaper change as well.
Thing is, I wasn't sleeping the greatest before this job. The place I was at before was less than 30 minute commute. I needed the exercise either way.
The exercise bike was a much cheaper change as well.
I used to commute an hour each way, but we moved and I'm now back to 25 minutes door to door. There's nothing better than getting time back in your day.
When I was commuting I witnessed on at least two occasions people exercising in traffic. Literally one hand on the wheel, one hand holding a small weight. The bike sounds much safer, but I definitely agree that exercise is key to feeling energized.
When I was commuting I witnessed on at least two occasions people exercising in traffic. Literally one hand on the wheel, one hand holding a small weight. The bike sounds much safer, but I definitely agree that exercise is key to feeling energized.
Indeed. See the Commuting Paradox: http://ideas.repec.org/p/zur/iewwpx/151.html
Suddenly my 11 minute commute seems fantastic. Granted I'm in Bolivia, but still. Puts things into perspective when I hear people driving over an hour to get to work. I'll never curse at traffic here again because it "slowed me down to 20 minutes!"
Ah, Bolivia! I lived in Cochabamba for about 5 months and loved it - walking, buses, taxis - so easy to get around. What's the dev scene like down there?
Maybe co-sleeping is great for some families, maybe not for others. My kids (4 and 2) are impossible to sleep next to, they wriggle and kick and force me to the edge of the bed. In their own rooms they sleep just fine but they are still the primary cause of any bad sleep patterns I have.
I consider both my children to be fairly good sleepers but they still get up at 6am every day no matter what and when one of them is sick, or teething, or just too wired to sleep then multiple wake ups per night are possible, even if they go back to sleep without intervention I still wake up myself.
I could do any number of things to help improve my own sleep patterns but they are all moot until my kids get older.
I consider both my children to be fairly good sleepers but they still get up at 6am every day no matter what and when one of them is sick, or teething, or just too wired to sleep then multiple wake ups per night are possible, even if they go back to sleep without intervention I still wake up myself.
I could do any number of things to help improve my own sleep patterns but they are all moot until my kids get older.
In terms of getting up too early in the morning some friends of mine have had good success with a Gro-Clock which gives children a visual indicator of when it's ok to get up:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gro-Clock-HJ008-Gro-Clock-Trainer/dp...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gro-Clock-HJ008-Gro-Clock-Trainer/dp...
Yep, we hear our daughter shuffling around in bed, sighing and generally being restless and then at bang on 7am there's the sound of her getting out of bed and running in to our room shouting "Mummy, Daddy, the sun came up!"
No chance of co-sleeping. Daughter likes to sleep diagonally when in our bed and spends most of the night kicking me and pawing at my wife's face/hair. Joy.
Luckily she has pretty much slept through the night (7pm to 7am) from 3 months old. This was good until ~2 years old when she started waking in the night and wanting to sleep in our bed. Having to put her back again and again until it sinks in isn't good for sleep. That has mostly settled down but then being 3 she's in the final stages of potty training so she's up occasionally in the night to want to go to the toilet (as she becomes aware of the need to wee) but it shouldn't be long before she's doing that all on her own (although I'll still probably wake up from the noise of her clattering around).
Luckily she has pretty much slept through the night (7pm to 7am) from 3 months old. This was good until ~2 years old when she started waking in the night and wanting to sleep in our bed. Having to put her back again and again until it sinks in isn't good for sleep. That has mostly settled down but then being 3 she's in the final stages of potty training so she's up occasionally in the night to want to go to the toilet (as she becomes aware of the need to wee) but it shouldn't be long before she's doing that all on her own (although I'll still probably wake up from the noise of her clattering around).
I've been weightlifting and lack of sleep has really limited my strength gains quite a bit. Food + Sleep can get you far, but Food with (4-5 hours of) Sleep isn't nearly as good.
Performance at work isn't that depressed though, oddly enough.
Anyway, I have a 10 month son that is teething or likewise going through some sleep pattern changes of some sort, and I can't exactly control that!
Sleep is important though, enjoy the fact that you probably have more control over it than I do.
Performance at work isn't that depressed though, oddly enough.
Anyway, I have a 10 month son that is teething or likewise going through some sleep pattern changes of some sort, and I can't exactly control that!
Sleep is important though, enjoy the fact that you probably have more control over it than I do.
I used to use this guy's program for palm pilot when memorizing some foreign language vocabulary. It was a pretty nice program and he put a lot of thought into the repetition and spacing algorithm. The author seems to think that memorization is the most important thing in the world, the justification being that things can only have subconscious connections once memorized.
If only all my problems could be solved by memorizing facts!
His was one of the first (if not the first?) computerized SRS (spaced repetition systems) out there (flash cards methods existed, such as the Lietner box system). It's non-free though. There are several more modern alternatives out there. Most people I know (who are into SRS programs) use Anki: www.ankisrs.net
You can even download pre-made decks from within the app (it's something like File->download->shared deck) that other people have made available for all kinds of topics (heavy emphasis on foreign languages).
You can even download pre-made decks from within the app (it's something like File->download->shared deck) that other people have made available for all kinds of topics (heavy emphasis on foreign languages).
I mostly have the habit/ability to sleep exactly 8 hours from whenever I go to bed, regardless of the time of day or time zone, with no alarm clock.
I had much insomnia as a teenager and through age ~24. Even as a child, for who-knows what reason, I would resist sleep. While living alone, and working for myself, I decided to try free running sleep. Within a couple of months my sleep normalized to exactly 8 hours (who knew???), regardless of when I went to bed (which could be as ridiculously late as 6 or 11 am, I might run get a cup of coffee from the corner diner and enjoy a little morning air before going to sleep)
Now, 15 years later, I still tend to sleep exactly 8 hours. It is less reliable because I no longer live alone, and occasionally jet-lag or work excitement will defeat me, but all in all the free sleeping approach makes me very happy. My policy is to only use an alarm when I have a specific appointment which I don't want to miss, and to keep my phones etc. silent while sleeping.
I had much insomnia as a teenager and through age ~24. Even as a child, for who-knows what reason, I would resist sleep. While living alone, and working for myself, I decided to try free running sleep. Within a couple of months my sleep normalized to exactly 8 hours (who knew???), regardless of when I went to bed (which could be as ridiculously late as 6 or 11 am, I might run get a cup of coffee from the corner diner and enjoy a little morning air before going to sleep)
Now, 15 years later, I still tend to sleep exactly 8 hours. It is less reliable because I no longer live alone, and occasionally jet-lag or work excitement will defeat me, but all in all the free sleeping approach makes me very happy. My policy is to only use an alarm when I have a specific appointment which I don't want to miss, and to keep my phones etc. silent while sleeping.
"One cannot eat one's cake and have it too"
This reverse version of the common idiom (to have one's cake and eat it too) is what got the Unabomber caught. Ted Kacynzski had a habit of saying it that way, and his brother saw it in his manifesto.
This reverse version of the common idiom (to have one's cake and eat it too) is what got the Unabomber caught. Ted Kacynzski had a habit of saying it that way, and his brother saw it in his manifesto.
A good point to take away is the concept of "free running sleep". Going to sleep only when you are tired and waking up only naturally. The author says this is a way to feel refreshed every day waking up.
> The greatest shortcoming of free running sleep is that it will often result in cycles longer than 24 hours. This eliminates free running sleep from a wider use in society.
For a few months, I've been working some serious hours and as a result slept about 5-6 hours per week nights. For one week now I've forced myself to sleep 8 hours even during the weeks, and noticed my productivity shoot up. It is worth it!
Tldr of the article: http://tldr.io/tldrs/5123bba2793151711c00001b/good-sleep-goo...
Tldr of the article: http://tldr.io/tldrs/5123bba2793151711c00001b/good-sleep-goo...
I dislike sleep and wish I did not have to do it.
[deleted]
I have to wonder though, since I have several "issues" (waking up tired, lower back pain, tense in the shoulders, bruxism, procrastination, ...) in moderate intensity, if I should just "man up".
How do you "man up" against sleep deprivation? I think in general you shouldn't man up against your own body.
I'm actually fascinated by this: popular mythology seems to push the "man up" principle for getting things done. But the real challenges I see are longterm sustainability, managing your resources properly to get through long tasks/projects.
Maybe it is because movies lend themselves more to the "man up once and achieve a break through" type of stories than to the "act sensibly and continue for a looong time".
Think learning piano: you can not man up and force yourself to learn piano in a 48h sleepless session (I assume :-)). You have to practice continuously for years. Sticking to it is the really hard part. Maning up for short bursts of time is actually easy.
I'm actually fascinated by this: popular mythology seems to push the "man up" principle for getting things done. But the real challenges I see are longterm sustainability, managing your resources properly to get through long tasks/projects.
Maybe it is because movies lend themselves more to the "man up once and achieve a break through" type of stories than to the "act sensibly and continue for a looong time".
Think learning piano: you can not man up and force yourself to learn piano in a 48h sleepless session (I assume :-)). You have to practice continuously for years. Sticking to it is the really hard part. Maning up for short bursts of time is actually easy.
Just read the alcohol part...whatttttttt? I fear we are all doomed. I can't remember the last weekend where I didn't go out and get drunk to some medium to very high degree on both nights...
Er, that is not at all something all people do.
If I wake up before the alarm clock, should I avoid going back to sleep until it rings? (suppose this time is around 30 min)
A bit meta, it's almost 1am in here and I'm reading this. Such an irony.
Why, there are people whose sleep cycles makes 1am a perfectly sane time for being awake?
Australia or Asia? ; )
Hello from your West Australia GMT+8 cousin!
KL :) Btw your profile is empty!
> "This contraptions showed that it takes an average of 3 weeks to kill a rat by sleep deprivation (or some 5 months by REM sleep deprivation alone)(Rechtschaffen 1998[7])"
It's a good thing rats don't code.
It's a good thing rats don't code.
Interestingly, this article told me a LOT of things that I've already discovered on my own, and another few things that make me feel very relieved, since I thought that I was doing it all wrong. It seems that everyone but me is, ha! Ok, just kidding, but not so much. I've realized that I feel a lot better since I stopped doing what everyone does and started doing what my body tells me to do.
First of all: I hate sleeping. No, really. Since I was like 9 years old. Sleeping feels good, or more exactly, going to sleep when you're sleepy feels good; but there are so many things to do through the day, that feel much better! Be it reading, studying, watching movies, any kind of game (videogames, board games, sports, you name it), or anything you like. Yeah, I've wished I didn't need to sleep since I was very young. Not too long after, I realized the harsh truth: not getting enough sleep is far worse than "waste" many hours in bed. You feel like shit (especially in the morning, just after artificially waking up), you perform worse on everything you do, and there are a few health issues.
Of course, for most of my life I've been under the same bane than everyone: school and work create artificial constraints to sleeping schedules, so through all my life I've done very unwise things. I remember a period of several months when I slept twice a day from four to eight: once AM, once PM. It's actually a relatively benign schedule compared to other things I've done.
So, I decided to tackle the problem, and now there are several things I do, with good results:
1) The article speaks against this, but try to go to sleep at about the same time everyday. What does this mean? Well, if your "sleeping time" is near but you don't feel tired at all (or you think you won't feel tired because it hasn't been an intense day), you may want to A) turn off as many lights as possible, and yes, this specifically includes computers, TV and phones (by the way, how many of you don't turn off the phone when you go to sleep? Please, don't do that to yourself!); and B) go for a walk and/or moderate exercise for about 30 minutes to tire you a little. Even walking through the rooms of your house might do the trick, actually.
2) In the adjustment phase (the article tells you how to do this; free-running sleep with little to no physical activity during a holiday week does the job for me), try to create a schedule that makes you get up a good 2-3 hours before you have to actually start preparing to go to work. I.e., if you would get up at 7 to immediately have breakfast as fast as possible, then take a shower and go to job with minimal "waste" of time, then schedule your sleep so that you get up at 5 or even a little sooner. This has some benefits like giving you quiet time to do whatever you want before work (I usually study); but more importantly, it ensures completely that, if one day you feel like you need a little more sleep, you can stay in bed as long as you want, and you'll be wide awake and energetic through all the day (however, try to increase your exercise that day, so that you'll feel tired and go to bed as soon as possible, thus not breaking your schedule. I've noted than a single day of not getting enough sleep may wreak havoc in your schedule, so this is actually quite important). This means, however, that you must go to bed soon, i.e.: say good-bye to your night life. I understand that this may put off many people, but at least try to think about this trade-off and which are your priorities. 3) This is my "secret weapon" that may also put off many people: no caffeine. Never in my life have I had any significant intake of caffeine, since I don't like coffee and I don't have coke that often. I'm not sure about how might this affect my schedule, but I'm confident that heavy coffee drinkers will have sleep problems despite their tolerance (they may not acknowledge it, since needing an alarm clock is widely not perceived as a huge sleep problem).
I used to think that I was a non-24. Not any more! I just had a poor schedule and didn't know how to train my body to shorten a little my circadian rhythm (again, the article speaks about this). I also used to think that I was clearly an owl, but I currently sleep from about 20 to 4, and it's by far the most stable schedule I've ever had. It feels so good to be free from the tyranny of the alarm clock.
First of all: I hate sleeping. No, really. Since I was like 9 years old. Sleeping feels good, or more exactly, going to sleep when you're sleepy feels good; but there are so many things to do through the day, that feel much better! Be it reading, studying, watching movies, any kind of game (videogames, board games, sports, you name it), or anything you like. Yeah, I've wished I didn't need to sleep since I was very young. Not too long after, I realized the harsh truth: not getting enough sleep is far worse than "waste" many hours in bed. You feel like shit (especially in the morning, just after artificially waking up), you perform worse on everything you do, and there are a few health issues.
Of course, for most of my life I've been under the same bane than everyone: school and work create artificial constraints to sleeping schedules, so through all my life I've done very unwise things. I remember a period of several months when I slept twice a day from four to eight: once AM, once PM. It's actually a relatively benign schedule compared to other things I've done.
So, I decided to tackle the problem, and now there are several things I do, with good results:
1) The article speaks against this, but try to go to sleep at about the same time everyday. What does this mean? Well, if your "sleeping time" is near but you don't feel tired at all (or you think you won't feel tired because it hasn't been an intense day), you may want to A) turn off as many lights as possible, and yes, this specifically includes computers, TV and phones (by the way, how many of you don't turn off the phone when you go to sleep? Please, don't do that to yourself!); and B) go for a walk and/or moderate exercise for about 30 minutes to tire you a little. Even walking through the rooms of your house might do the trick, actually.
2) In the adjustment phase (the article tells you how to do this; free-running sleep with little to no physical activity during a holiday week does the job for me), try to create a schedule that makes you get up a good 2-3 hours before you have to actually start preparing to go to work. I.e., if you would get up at 7 to immediately have breakfast as fast as possible, then take a shower and go to job with minimal "waste" of time, then schedule your sleep so that you get up at 5 or even a little sooner. This has some benefits like giving you quiet time to do whatever you want before work (I usually study); but more importantly, it ensures completely that, if one day you feel like you need a little more sleep, you can stay in bed as long as you want, and you'll be wide awake and energetic through all the day (however, try to increase your exercise that day, so that you'll feel tired and go to bed as soon as possible, thus not breaking your schedule. I've noted than a single day of not getting enough sleep may wreak havoc in your schedule, so this is actually quite important). This means, however, that you must go to bed soon, i.e.: say good-bye to your night life. I understand that this may put off many people, but at least try to think about this trade-off and which are your priorities. 3) This is my "secret weapon" that may also put off many people: no caffeine. Never in my life have I had any significant intake of caffeine, since I don't like coffee and I don't have coke that often. I'm not sure about how might this affect my schedule, but I'm confident that heavy coffee drinkers will have sleep problems despite their tolerance (they may not acknowledge it, since needing an alarm clock is widely not perceived as a huge sleep problem).
I used to think that I was a non-24. Not any more! I just had a poor schedule and didn't know how to train my body to shorten a little my circadian rhythm (again, the article speaks about this). I also used to think that I was clearly an owl, but I currently sleep from about 20 to 4, and it's by far the most stable schedule I've ever had. It feels so good to be free from the tyranny of the alarm clock.
I'm glad to see Piotr updating some of the older articles @ supermemo.com.
For those not familiar with Piotr or SuperMemo: it was the first spaced repetition software, based on his research many years ago. An early version of his spaced-repetition algorithm has been released to the wild, and is being used in some form in some free spaced-repetition software such as Mnemosyne and Anki.
SuperMemo is written in Delphi, and the latest version is 15 (released last year -- I was a beta tester). It is notoriously complex, and has a very very steep learning curve. However, you can in fact start using it very quickly if you stick to the basic interface mode (you can change modes from Beginner to Professional). Before I started using it, I'd spent weeks reading the articles @ supermemo.com and I learned a lot (I highly recommend reading his articles). Note: the reason the UI of SM15 is horrendous is because Piotr is the one developing it (he's also a die-hard user), and he doesn't seem to care much about the UI since it seems to do exactly what he needs it to do ;-).
One of the more interesting features that SuperMemo has that other spaced-repetition apps don't is something called "Incremental Reading" (http://supermemo.com/help/read.htm#What_is_incremental_readi...). It lets you import articles (say, from Wikipedia), and read them in chunks, while extracting parts of the articles you want to "remember" further and furhter, this is how it works:
1. You import an article using the import tool.
2. The article comes up every once in a while as part of your spaced-repetition routine. You read a part of it and you may extract a paragraph that you believe contains information that you want to learn/remember. This paragraph gets colored (so you know in the future which ones you've extracted). Once you're bored, you skip the article and move on to the next repetition element.
3. Both the article (as long as you haven't dismissed it) and the bits you have extracted may come up in your daily spaced-reptition routine. This way you get to process the article itself (extracting more chunks, as needed), and work on the extracted chunks until there is no more to extract.
4. Ideally you should be left with a bunch of sentences, as simple as possible which you will probably have to rewrite (he gives tips on how to do it here: http://supermemo.com/articles/20rules.htm). At this point you will reformulate sentences into Q & A form. SuperMemo lets you select a word and choose "extract cloze" or something like that, it will automatically add a Q & A item where the question is the sentence with the missing word, and you have to complete it.
I have to be honest, I have used SuperMemo in the past with great success, but now as a busy University student, I really have no time to reformulate knowledge so that it's in proper form, nor do I have time to actually do the repetitions every day as it requires a lot of self-discipline. One more thing that I dislike about SuperMemo is the fact that all data elements are in HTML (it's based on an IE browser control), so it is very limited when it comes to making clozes of mathematical expressions (I get around some of the problems by using TTH [http://hutchinson.belmont.ma.us/tth/]).
Note that they also have another company which releases a product called SuperMemo UX (http://www.supermemo.eu/supermemo_ux) which uses .NET and the SM15 algorithm, but it is not developed by Piotr himself (SM15 is). It looks like UX much less flexible, and probably mostly geared to learning vocabulary using the pre-made packages they sell on their website.
For those not familiar with Piotr or SuperMemo: it was the first spaced repetition software, based on his research many years ago. An early version of his spaced-repetition algorithm has been released to the wild, and is being used in some form in some free spaced-repetition software such as Mnemosyne and Anki.
SuperMemo is written in Delphi, and the latest version is 15 (released last year -- I was a beta tester). It is notoriously complex, and has a very very steep learning curve. However, you can in fact start using it very quickly if you stick to the basic interface mode (you can change modes from Beginner to Professional). Before I started using it, I'd spent weeks reading the articles @ supermemo.com and I learned a lot (I highly recommend reading his articles). Note: the reason the UI of SM15 is horrendous is because Piotr is the one developing it (he's also a die-hard user), and he doesn't seem to care much about the UI since it seems to do exactly what he needs it to do ;-).
One of the more interesting features that SuperMemo has that other spaced-repetition apps don't is something called "Incremental Reading" (http://supermemo.com/help/read.htm#What_is_incremental_readi...). It lets you import articles (say, from Wikipedia), and read them in chunks, while extracting parts of the articles you want to "remember" further and furhter, this is how it works:
1. You import an article using the import tool.
2. The article comes up every once in a while as part of your spaced-repetition routine. You read a part of it and you may extract a paragraph that you believe contains information that you want to learn/remember. This paragraph gets colored (so you know in the future which ones you've extracted). Once you're bored, you skip the article and move on to the next repetition element.
3. Both the article (as long as you haven't dismissed it) and the bits you have extracted may come up in your daily spaced-reptition routine. This way you get to process the article itself (extracting more chunks, as needed), and work on the extracted chunks until there is no more to extract.
4. Ideally you should be left with a bunch of sentences, as simple as possible which you will probably have to rewrite (he gives tips on how to do it here: http://supermemo.com/articles/20rules.htm). At this point you will reformulate sentences into Q & A form. SuperMemo lets you select a word and choose "extract cloze" or something like that, it will automatically add a Q & A item where the question is the sentence with the missing word, and you have to complete it.
I have to be honest, I have used SuperMemo in the past with great success, but now as a busy University student, I really have no time to reformulate knowledge so that it's in proper form, nor do I have time to actually do the repetitions every day as it requires a lot of self-discipline. One more thing that I dislike about SuperMemo is the fact that all data elements are in HTML (it's based on an IE browser control), so it is very limited when it comes to making clozes of mathematical expressions (I get around some of the problems by using TTH [http://hutchinson.belmont.ma.us/tth/]).
Note that they also have another company which releases a product called SuperMemo UX (http://www.supermemo.eu/supermemo_ux) which uses .NET and the SM15 algorithm, but it is not developed by Piotr himself (SM15 is). It looks like UX much less flexible, and probably mostly geared to learning vocabulary using the pre-made packages they sell on their website.
This article looks like a really amazing resource. I haven't read it all but did a little Cmd+Fing to see if it broached the following topic, and it didn't, so I thought I'd chime in in case somebody else was where I was with these particular sleep issues:
I used to have no problems sleeping at all, falling asleep whenever I wanted to, staying asleep all night, sleeping through noises… until I had mono for the second time and developed chronic fatigue syndrome. The worst symptom was inability to fall asleep, to stay asleep, and the crazy health impact that had (take a normal person and poke them til they wake up several times a night and they will soon develop the symptoms of fibromyalgia).
I would get tired, but never sleepy; none of the usual sleep hygiene stuff helped. I had no racing thoughts, I wasn't lying in bed thinking about all the bad things I'd done or reliving my day. I'd come to grips with all that stuff a long time ago. There was nothing wrong with me psychologically, it was like my body was broken.
I couldn't exercise because of the CFS, I'd be wiped out for days (but not sleeping). Quit caffeine, no help. Warm milk, tea, green tea extract, eyemask, earplugs, whatever, nothing helped. I would start to fall asleep and the slightest sound or movement would wake me. Or a stray thought as I started to drift. Again, not an important thought but I might start dreaming about sofas and where to put the sofa and then BAM, I'd wake up, like somebody ripped the sweet blanket of sleep away from me by main force. Not only would I be awake, I'd be unbearably furious. Sleep deprivation creates an inability to regulate emotion.
Even my body temperature was out of whack, getting cold and warm (yet never warm enough) at all the wrong times. This is one of the major signs of true delayed sleep phase disorder as opposed to psychological or chemical insomnia. (The original article does touch on this but doesn't describe the details: if your morning temperature is very low, and your evening temperature warmer, that's out of whack. My temperature on first waking used to be 96.5 - 97 F, and evening I'd get quite hot, although never above 98 F even though for all of my previous life I'd always been bang on 98.6 F.)
After months of this torture, I finally figured out that it was CFS. I found a book that absolutely gave me back my life: From Fatigued to Fantastic. I got my doctor to prescribe the author's recommendation for sleep troubles (after trying the herbal stuff and experiencing a paradoxical effect).
The sleep recommendations alone gave me at least an 75% improvement in quality of life:
Trazodone is one of only two drugs known to improve sleep architecture -- it's not a hypnotic, it doesn't knock you out, it actually helps you spend more time in deep sleep.
Melatonin at just 300mcg (MICROgram, not mg) to do the "knock out" portion.
Big doses of magnesium at night (I prefer the fizzy Austrian tablets and now I import them). Helps both with sleep, and muscle pain/stiffness from CFS/FM.
For unknown reasons, this current winter has been brutal to me. I've been sick constantly and tired, tired, tired despite the fact that Philadelphia gets at least 3x the sun that Vienna does in the winter and despite the fact that I am taking mega doses of b-vitamins which always helped before. Also I am a lot happier here and work stress is much reduced. Still… exhausted. all. the. time.
Over Christmas, my (Austrian) neurologist mother-in-law heard my winter symptoms and said "You have low serotonin. I want you to be on Welbutrin or Cymbalta." ( she obviously used the Austrian brand names.)
I said, "But I'm not depressed." (And indeed, I am not, plus the 2 meds above were totally doing the trick in terms of falling asleep. The key is that I am too tired to do what I want to do… but I still really want to do it.)
She told me, "That doesn't matter. Low serotonin can simply be a physical deficiency and not emotional."
I said, "OK, but I'm not taking Welbutrin or Cymbalta."
The trazodone I'm on has no "hangover" effect. It doesn't build up in the body and it's not addicting at the doses I take. These other drugs, though, can be opening a serious can of worms.
So with permission from my actual doctor, I got an herbal supplement with huge doses of B vitamins, St John's Wort, Suntheanine (green tea extract), and GABA. This replaced my existing B-vitamin complex. Plus I started taking huge doses of vitamin D because my blood serum levels were ridiculously low (despite the extra sun!) and got my 10,000 lux SAD light habit back in gear.
HUGE improvement.
I have been able to reduce my trazodone dose by 33% and some nights I don't even need the melatonin. I actually get tired and fall asleep like a normal person. Can't tell you how amazing that is after 3 years of sleep problems. (Most amazingly, I have even slept once or twice without earplugs… something I thought I'd never be able to do again. EVER.)
The 10,000 lux SAD light, the Vitamin D, and the herbal supplement has been an enormous improvement. The elements alone don't do the trick for me (I tried), but all 3 in combination make my life so much better.
I used to have no problems sleeping at all, falling asleep whenever I wanted to, staying asleep all night, sleeping through noises… until I had mono for the second time and developed chronic fatigue syndrome. The worst symptom was inability to fall asleep, to stay asleep, and the crazy health impact that had (take a normal person and poke them til they wake up several times a night and they will soon develop the symptoms of fibromyalgia).
I would get tired, but never sleepy; none of the usual sleep hygiene stuff helped. I had no racing thoughts, I wasn't lying in bed thinking about all the bad things I'd done or reliving my day. I'd come to grips with all that stuff a long time ago. There was nothing wrong with me psychologically, it was like my body was broken.
I couldn't exercise because of the CFS, I'd be wiped out for days (but not sleeping). Quit caffeine, no help. Warm milk, tea, green tea extract, eyemask, earplugs, whatever, nothing helped. I would start to fall asleep and the slightest sound or movement would wake me. Or a stray thought as I started to drift. Again, not an important thought but I might start dreaming about sofas and where to put the sofa and then BAM, I'd wake up, like somebody ripped the sweet blanket of sleep away from me by main force. Not only would I be awake, I'd be unbearably furious. Sleep deprivation creates an inability to regulate emotion.
Even my body temperature was out of whack, getting cold and warm (yet never warm enough) at all the wrong times. This is one of the major signs of true delayed sleep phase disorder as opposed to psychological or chemical insomnia. (The original article does touch on this but doesn't describe the details: if your morning temperature is very low, and your evening temperature warmer, that's out of whack. My temperature on first waking used to be 96.5 - 97 F, and evening I'd get quite hot, although never above 98 F even though for all of my previous life I'd always been bang on 98.6 F.)
After months of this torture, I finally figured out that it was CFS. I found a book that absolutely gave me back my life: From Fatigued to Fantastic. I got my doctor to prescribe the author's recommendation for sleep troubles (after trying the herbal stuff and experiencing a paradoxical effect).
The sleep recommendations alone gave me at least an 75% improvement in quality of life:
Trazodone is one of only two drugs known to improve sleep architecture -- it's not a hypnotic, it doesn't knock you out, it actually helps you spend more time in deep sleep.
Melatonin at just 300mcg (MICROgram, not mg) to do the "knock out" portion.
Big doses of magnesium at night (I prefer the fizzy Austrian tablets and now I import them). Helps both with sleep, and muscle pain/stiffness from CFS/FM.
For unknown reasons, this current winter has been brutal to me. I've been sick constantly and tired, tired, tired despite the fact that Philadelphia gets at least 3x the sun that Vienna does in the winter and despite the fact that I am taking mega doses of b-vitamins which always helped before. Also I am a lot happier here and work stress is much reduced. Still… exhausted. all. the. time.
Over Christmas, my (Austrian) neurologist mother-in-law heard my winter symptoms and said "You have low serotonin. I want you to be on Welbutrin or Cymbalta." ( she obviously used the Austrian brand names.)
I said, "But I'm not depressed." (And indeed, I am not, plus the 2 meds above were totally doing the trick in terms of falling asleep. The key is that I am too tired to do what I want to do… but I still really want to do it.)
She told me, "That doesn't matter. Low serotonin can simply be a physical deficiency and not emotional."
I said, "OK, but I'm not taking Welbutrin or Cymbalta."
The trazodone I'm on has no "hangover" effect. It doesn't build up in the body and it's not addicting at the doses I take. These other drugs, though, can be opening a serious can of worms.
So with permission from my actual doctor, I got an herbal supplement with huge doses of B vitamins, St John's Wort, Suntheanine (green tea extract), and GABA. This replaced my existing B-vitamin complex. Plus I started taking huge doses of vitamin D because my blood serum levels were ridiculously low (despite the extra sun!) and got my 10,000 lux SAD light habit back in gear.
HUGE improvement.
I have been able to reduce my trazodone dose by 33% and some nights I don't even need the melatonin. I actually get tired and fall asleep like a normal person. Can't tell you how amazing that is after 3 years of sleep problems. (Most amazingly, I have even slept once or twice without earplugs… something I thought I'd never be able to do again. EVER.)
The 10,000 lux SAD light, the Vitamin D, and the herbal supplement has been an enormous improvement. The elements alone don't do the trick for me (I tried), but all 3 in combination make my life so much better.
I take trazadone too. It's a life saver. I only take it occasionally. It seems to correct my sleep schedule for at least several weeks after taking it for a few nights.
Also, it's an extremely cheap medication. My doc told me that so few doctors prescribe it because of that. The drug reps push the newer meds to make more money. And the drug companies fund studies showing side effects of trazadone. It's a shame because he said he notices a lot more hangover and mental degradation in people on ambien and the like.
Also, it's an extremely cheap medication. My doc told me that so few doctors prescribe it because of that. The drug reps push the newer meds to make more money. And the drug companies fund studies showing side effects of trazadone. It's a shame because he said he notices a lot more hangover and mental degradation in people on ambien and the like.
Trazadone and melatonin have helped tremendously in my sleep as well.
For vitamin D you should make sure you get vitamin K in there too:
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/vitamin-d-cof...
http://examine.com/supplements/Vitamin+D/#thingstoknow
For vitamin D you should make sure you get vitamin K in there too:
http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/vitamin-d-cof...
http://examine.com/supplements/Vitamin+D/#thingstoknow
What happens to you after you exercise? Do you get headaches?
I also have CFS, and one of the most useful treatments I've found is to take 200mg naproxen at bedtime, four nights a week. (Taking it every night would risk causing serious stomach and/or kidney problems.) This has improved the quality of my sleep considerably. I haven't experienced insomnia from the CFS, though.
I also have CFS, and one of the most useful treatments I've found is to take 200mg naproxen at bedtime, four nights a week. (Taking it every night would risk causing serious stomach and/or kidney problems.) This has improved the quality of my sleep considerably. I haven't experienced insomnia from the CFS, though.
Not headaches, but I would start to feel faint/dizzy during (causes a drop in blood pressure) and a day or two later, intense pain in any of the muscles I worked, and I would feel like I got hit by a truck. Like my limbs weighed a thousand pounds and I couldn't lift them. Even something as simple as tearing a piece of paper would feel like an immense effort. Early on, when I first got CFS, it was so bad there were several days when I couldn't hold my head up without crying.
This symptom is officially called "post-exertional malaise," which doesn't even come close to capturing the horror of the reality. The cause is that in people with CFS/fibromyalgia, the muscles don't replenish themselves with glycogen and ATP the way they ought to. When my FM was bad, I used to take D-Ribose as described in From Fatigued to Fantastic and that did help, but mostly I don't need it any more. I do much more physical activity now, and when I overdo it, I'm tired, but it's not disabling.
I try to avoid pain killers when I can. I haven't found that they change my sleep any more than the magnesium, which doesn't have the side effects.
This symptom is officially called "post-exertional malaise," which doesn't even come close to capturing the horror of the reality. The cause is that in people with CFS/fibromyalgia, the muscles don't replenish themselves with glycogen and ATP the way they ought to. When my FM was bad, I used to take D-Ribose as described in From Fatigued to Fantastic and that did help, but mostly I don't need it any more. I do much more physical activity now, and when I overdo it, I'm tired, but it's not disabling.
I try to avoid pain killers when I can. I haven't found that they change my sleep any more than the magnesium, which doesn't have the side effects.
Huh. I guess it just manifests differently in different people. I've never had any muscle pain from it -- just headache, sometimes severe. But it reliably shows up 8 to 48 hours after exercise.
Glad to hear that this ended well. I couldn't imagine what you went through not being able to sleep. I feel as though if you aren't physically feeling well, you can't sleep well. At the beginning of this year I was sick and man, was it tough trying to get a comfy night's rest.
I am so thankful now for nights that I can literally rest easy.
I am so thankful now for nights that I can literally rest easy.
It's interesting that your doctor wanted to put you on Wellbutrin since it's perhaps the only antidepressant that doesn't act on seratonin.
She's my mother-in-law who is a doctor, but not my doctor. I probably substituted the name of another drug in the same family… the German name is hard to remember. The point being, I heard it, I looked it up, I said "heeeeell no."
would you mind saying what the herbal supplement was that you ended up using? my girlfriend has a lot of these issues as well and I would like to mention it to her so she could discuss it with her doctor the next time she sees him. thanks!
Sure, it's Now Foods Mood Support. Be careful, IANA doctor.
Thanks for this write up! More things to think about.
omg, how many charts this page has... i fell asleep just scrolling through the page.
"It is everyone's dream to wake up fresh, happy, and ready for action on a daily basis. Sadly, in the modern world, only a small minority lives that dream. Yet the dream is within reach for most healthy people given a bit of knowledge, and
a readiness to make some lifestyle sacrifice."
If I click print is says 203 pages. That is not "a bit of knowledge" - not that I mind to spend time on what looks to be a very interesting an well-researched read.. Luckily he gives a TL;DR summary himself:
"In the presented algorithm, you try to stick to your optimum bedtime and waking time every day. You establish a protected zone in the evening to favor phase advance (minimum light, computers, stress, excitement, etc.). You wake up to bright sunlight and use morning exercise to advance the phase in the morning. You ingest caffeine only in the morning. You avoid alcohol in the evening. If you nap, you nap early. If your phase keeps shifting, you add more light and exercise in the morning. You also extend your protected zone in the evening. In emergency, when you fear falling out of synch, you could occasionally use melatonin in the evening, or delicate sounds in the morning as the minimum effective departure from the free running sleep principle."
If I click print is says 203 pages. That is not "a bit of knowledge" - not that I mind to spend time on what looks to be a very interesting an well-researched read.. Luckily he gives a TL;DR summary himself:
"In the presented algorithm, you try to stick to your optimum bedtime and waking time every day. You establish a protected zone in the evening to favor phase advance (minimum light, computers, stress, excitement, etc.). You wake up to bright sunlight and use morning exercise to advance the phase in the morning. You ingest caffeine only in the morning. You avoid alcohol in the evening. If you nap, you nap early. If your phase keeps shifting, you add more light and exercise in the morning. You also extend your protected zone in the evening. In emergency, when you fear falling out of synch, you could occasionally use melatonin in the evening, or delicate sounds in the morning as the minimum effective departure from the free running sleep principle."
> You ingest caffeine only in the morning.
But that makes no sense. Caffeine binds to adenosine receptors, which have to do with how sleepy you are. But they aren't doing anything in the morning as you've just woken up (think of them as a counter of how long you've been awake).
Any coffee before lunch is just a placebo really.
From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenosine > Caffeine's principal mode of action is as an antagonist of adenosine receptors in the brain.
I mean, if you're only going to drink caffeine in the morning you might as well go without. No need for the sweats, frequent visits to the loo and dehydration if you're not even going to use its upsides.
But that makes no sense. Caffeine binds to adenosine receptors, which have to do with how sleepy you are. But they aren't doing anything in the morning as you've just woken up (think of them as a counter of how long you've been awake).
Any coffee before lunch is just a placebo really.
From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenosine > Caffeine's principal mode of action is as an antagonist of adenosine receptors in the brain.
I mean, if you're only going to drink caffeine in the morning you might as well go without. No need for the sweats, frequent visits to the loo and dehydration if you're not even going to use its upsides.
>Any coffee before lunch is just a placebo really.
No.
I understand what you're trying to convey but calling coffee before lunch a placebo is definitely going too far.
It's true that caffeine binds to adenosine, but 1) there is always a non-trivial baseline of adenosine in your system (and for many, morning adenosine levels are high in spite of having just slept) and 2) there is more than just caffeine in coffee.
No.
I understand what you're trying to convey but calling coffee before lunch a placebo is definitely going too far.
It's true that caffeine binds to adenosine, but 1) there is always a non-trivial baseline of adenosine in your system (and for many, morning adenosine levels are high in spite of having just slept) and 2) there is more than just caffeine in coffee.
"But they aren't doing anything in the morning as you've just woken up (think of them as a counter of how long you've been awake"
How so? If you wake up sleepy and groggy and all that, then what neuroreceptors are we talking about?
How so? If you wake up sleepy and groggy and all that, then what neuroreceptors are we talking about?
I would guess they're one of the few lucky people that wake up feeling refreshed and perky in the morning. Me, I feel like zombie usually the first 30-45mins unless I have some caffeine shortly after waking up.
Not at all, I've just realised that waiting for a bit works better than drinking caffeine.
Exercise helps greatly as well.
Exercise helps greatly as well.
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Any coffee before lunch is just a placebo really.
I find this hard to believe. And it would be pretty easy to test using decaf coffee in a double-blind trial.
I find this hard to believe. And it would be pretty easy to test using decaf coffee in a double-blind trial.
You would need people that have been caffeine free for a long time as to not have withdrawals effect the results. I would assume there would be a lot of variables in people caffeine responses which would be hard to control.
Any coffee before lunch is just a placebo really
A tasty and enjoyable placebo that keeps me from getting a caffeine withdrawal headache.
A tasty and enjoyable placebo that keeps me from getting a caffeine withdrawal headache.
I'm pretty sure caffeine increases stress levels which is what you want, if you need to start focusing on your work.
Of course, too much stress is bad for you, which is why you shouldn't have multiple cups a day...
Of course, too much stress is bad for you, which is why you shouldn't have multiple cups a day...
> You ingest caffeine only in the morning.
I have slept so much better since switching to decaf[1]. I do miss a good coffee, but then some cafes do a good decaf and I'm quite happy drinking instant (decaf) coffee; it's also saving me a load of money[3].
> You avoid alcohol in the evening.
So it's OK in the morning then? Oh, I see.
1. Most decaf is not completely caffeine free but it's generally 10% (at most) of the caffeine.[2] 2. And I've never really drunk Coca-Cola or anything other soft drinks with caffeine in them. 3. An £8 a (work) day coffee habit is close to two years off my mortgage.
I have slept so much better since switching to decaf[1]. I do miss a good coffee, but then some cafes do a good decaf and I'm quite happy drinking instant (decaf) coffee; it's also saving me a load of money[3].
> You avoid alcohol in the evening.
So it's OK in the morning then? Oh, I see.
1. Most decaf is not completely caffeine free but it's generally 10% (at most) of the caffeine.[2] 2. And I've never really drunk Coca-Cola or anything other soft drinks with caffeine in them. 3. An £8 a (work) day coffee habit is close to two years off my mortgage.
I don't get this. Skimming over it, I see it tells me something in yellow, centered and bolded text, and then goes on to refute why it's not true. I can't see a hint that it's a common myth or anything, it's presented as the truth at first. So either it's a horrible article (guide?) to look through without reading entirely, or I don't get it. TLDR anyone?
Learning more about the author might convince you that it's worth reading: http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/16-05/ff_woznia...
Had to rush to catch a bus, would have read more thoroughly any other time.
Here are the highlights the author has extracted from his study http://tldr.io/tldrs/5123bba2793151711c00001b/good-sleep-goo...
Le men discovers a way to live, must be the truth, must save everyone.
Puts cape on...
Still, opinion, opinions are fun :)
Still, opinion, opinions are fun :)
Surely it does not work for everybody but when it works it means to have small children without having sleep depravation, so I suggest to try this approach of breastfeeding + co-sleeping for sure.
Btw we also don't use an alarm clock, but always go to bed around 00:00, and get up before 9:00 more or less automatically. When we don't sleep enough for some reason, the reality is that we lose a lot more time compared to the 9 hours of sleep as you are basically useless after noon because already too tired to really do great work (btw we actually sleep 8 hours, 1 hour is some pre-post bed time).
IMHO sleep depravation is very very linked to procrastination.