Unpacking my knapsack: the privileges of a Hispanic male in tech(danilocampos.com)
danilocampos.com
Unpacking my knapsack: the privileges of a Hispanic male in tech
http://danilocampos.com/2013/02/unpacking-my-knapsack-the-privileges-of-a-hispanic-male-in-tech/
20 comments
Wow, what a story. Thank you for sharing it. I always had some notion of the depressing realities I'd have faced if I stuck around on the island – but your testimony takes it to a new level.
It's amazing. Education really is the silver bullet. And computers are the most revolutionary education tool ever devised. Way to climb out of a tough spot, my fellow boricua.
It's amazing. Education really is the silver bullet. And computers are the most revolutionary education tool ever devised. Way to climb out of a tough spot, my fellow boricua.
Education is a good bullet, but its part of an arsenal.
Not everyone can make of the tools the same house you have fashioned, which follows from people themselves being massively varied.
I suspect that many tools in your tool case would be used in a variety of manners for people who wanted to get out.
---
Side note - I've heard "education is the silver bullet for our problems" and seen it applied with very disappointing results.
On one hand it has definitely given several people a path to move up in life. But its also been terrible for the rest of the populace.
It ended up creating legions of people who are literate but not 'educated'. A curious situation where people can say they know about rationality without having to be rational.
It produces legions of people who can perform mental athletics like rote memorization, or mental calculus and other tricks, but about poor understanding of the logic of the underlying principles they apply.
The number of people who grow up to be like the two of you is few and far between.
Not everyone can make of the tools the same house you have fashioned, which follows from people themselves being massively varied.
I suspect that many tools in your tool case would be used in a variety of manners for people who wanted to get out.
---
Side note - I've heard "education is the silver bullet for our problems" and seen it applied with very disappointing results.
On one hand it has definitely given several people a path to move up in life. But its also been terrible for the rest of the populace.
It ended up creating legions of people who are literate but not 'educated'. A curious situation where people can say they know about rationality without having to be rational.
It produces legions of people who can perform mental athletics like rote memorization, or mental calculus and other tricks, but about poor understanding of the logic of the underlying principles they apply.
The number of people who grow up to be like the two of you is few and far between.
I would argue that one can attain literacy without being educated.
When I say education is the silver bullet, I guess I mean that a full suite of well-rounded knowledge, along with the tools and confidence to derive more knowledge, can cure most social ills.
But your point is well-taken. I think we can lay the blame for, say, young-earth creationism at the feet of a widespread state of literacy without education.
You know enough to read a book, but not enough to know why you shouldn't take its contents at face value.
When I say education is the silver bullet, I guess I mean that a full suite of well-rounded knowledge, along with the tools and confidence to derive more knowledge, can cure most social ills.
But your point is well-taken. I think we can lay the blame for, say, young-earth creationism at the feet of a widespread state of literacy without education.
You know enough to read a book, but not enough to know why you shouldn't take its contents at face value.
> ... a full suite of well-rounded knowledge, along with the tools and confidence to derive more knowledge, can cure most social ills
> You know enough to read a book, but not enough to know why you shouldn't take its contents at face value.
Exactly my position - you can be literate (able to read, write and master a subject enough to be employed) but either are unwilling or unable to understand the implications/meaning of what you have read.
Educated people, the way I've seen it, can apply and use what they know to make the world as a whole better, or at the very least not encourage or allow assaults on the societal contract.
I think for a while, people assumed that there was a strong correlation between education and being able to think for yourself. Especially after seeing people like yourselves who used education as a way to actually be people who have a moral compass and excel in society.
What people didn't want is the legions of excellent workers who can value a firm from its financials in their heads, but turn around and promote intolerance, racism and corruption.
Perhaps its got a lot more to do with the role models you saw. As you said you had someone who became a thief, but from the way you write, it seems that path just didn't make sense to you.
> You know enough to read a book, but not enough to know why you shouldn't take its contents at face value.
Exactly my position - you can be literate (able to read, write and master a subject enough to be employed) but either are unwilling or unable to understand the implications/meaning of what you have read.
Educated people, the way I've seen it, can apply and use what they know to make the world as a whole better, or at the very least not encourage or allow assaults on the societal contract.
I think for a while, people assumed that there was a strong correlation between education and being able to think for yourself. Especially after seeing people like yourselves who used education as a way to actually be people who have a moral compass and excel in society.
What people didn't want is the legions of excellent workers who can value a firm from its financials in their heads, but turn around and promote intolerance, racism and corruption.
Perhaps its got a lot more to do with the role models you saw. As you said you had someone who became a thief, but from the way you write, it seems that path just didn't make sense to you.
Yes, education is the important factor. Though education != college. It goes farther than that. It is what we learn from our parents ever since the day we can think. Both of my parents are very strongly educated people, something that they passed on to me (and my brothers).
Computers are an amazing tool. That is why I'm always helping people learn to use and program them. I wish all programmers would do the same. It makes a huge difference.
Oh, and I'm not done climbing. :)
Thank you.
PS. Lets keep in touch. Email in profile.
Computers are an amazing tool. That is why I'm always helping people learn to use and program them. I wish all programmers would do the same. It makes a huge difference.
Oh, and I'm not done climbing. :)
Thank you.
PS. Lets keep in touch. Email in profile.
Great story. Even though I love the island, especially if/when you have kids, get out of there. It's sad that rather than advise an intelligent, motivated, hard working individual to stay and make the place better I'd advice them to get out, but I just don't see the problems getting better. There is something broken about the current culture in Puerto Rico. I'm glad I'm raising my kids on the mainland, they are learning the culture and language but in an environment where I don't have to look over my shoulder at all times. There are plenty of bad places here too, but it's much easier to get away from them here than there.
As much as it saddens me, I haven't met anyone who has left and hasn't found a better/safer opportunity here. We're lucky we don't need to worry about citizenship...
Mano y si necesitas ayuda me avisas, yo soy Cagueño también! 3 in one hn thread! Ship me some alcapurrias ;)
As much as it saddens me, I haven't met anyone who has left and hasn't found a better/safer opportunity here. We're lucky we don't need to worry about citizenship...
Mano y si necesitas ayuda me avisas, yo soy Cagueño también! 3 in one hn thread! Ship me some alcapurrias ;)
Thank you. I appreciate the offer. May you shoot me an email?
I think your post lays out a clear case that it comes down to parenting, hard work, and access to the USA. And as an American (Puerto Rican) you had access to the only one ordinary people can't control.
But I feel your article gets derailed with too many anecdotal stories. Some rub me the wrong way, but maybe I'm just reading it wrong...
I was also born in Puerto Rico and grew up in Caguas (Bairoa). But that wasn't a bad thing...
I have a horrible accent (which seems will never disappear) and would probably not pass the Texas State Trooper test. But that has not impacted my career...
My family was religious, but the first person I met who believed the world was only a few thousand years old was in Florida. I find it irritating that you would insinuate Puerto Ricans don't believe in Science...
I don't think being or not being Hispanic has anything to do with it. There are plenty of people, minorities or not, stuck in crappy areas. With good parenting, they can at least ensure their kids have a chance at hard work. It's what helped you, and what helped me. I was also the first person in my family with a six figure salary.
We should chat though, boricuas in tech has to be a very small group ;).
But I feel your article gets derailed with too many anecdotal stories. Some rub me the wrong way, but maybe I'm just reading it wrong...
I was also born in Puerto Rico and grew up in Caguas (Bairoa). But that wasn't a bad thing...
I have a horrible accent (which seems will never disappear) and would probably not pass the Texas State Trooper test. But that has not impacted my career...
My family was religious, but the first person I met who believed the world was only a few thousand years old was in Florida. I find it irritating that you would insinuate Puerto Ricans don't believe in Science...
I don't think being or not being Hispanic has anything to do with it. There are plenty of people, minorities or not, stuck in crappy areas. With good parenting, they can at least ensure their kids have a chance at hard work. It's what helped you, and what helped me. I was also the first person in my family with a six figure salary.
We should chat though, boricuas in tech has to be a very small group ;).
vladsanchez 3 hours ago | link [dead]
Same boat, Boricua in tech, same traits. Read the article the right way, and liked the anecdotes. Take care.
Same boat, Boricua in tech, same traits. Read the article the right way, and liked the anecdotes. Take care.
It's amazing how far back, and how complicated a chain of events can be that lead to a specific outcome. Similarly, I look back in awe at the luck and good fortune I've had.
I owe my entire life-path of technology to my grandfather on my fathers side. He was an electrical engineer, far ahead of his time, and when he was done playing with something he sent it to us. I was privileged to receive a TI-99 at age 5, a C64 at age 6, and an 8088 after that. I was hooked from the start, and computers have been the single most important constant in my life ever since.
I owe my entire life-path of technology to my grandfather on my fathers side. He was an electrical engineer, far ahead of his time, and when he was done playing with something he sent it to us. I was privileged to receive a TI-99 at age 5, a C64 at age 6, and an 8088 after that. I was hooked from the start, and computers have been the single most important constant in my life ever since.
I, too, owe my technological career to my father's father, who was an engineer. He died recently and I wrote about it here:
https://plus.google.com/106356964679457436995/posts/dcPPziC1...
https://plus.google.com/106356964679457436995/posts/dcPPziC1...
> I know with certainty that having access to America – the mainland, the honest-to-god US of A – was the most crucial part of my privilege.
Simply being an American, even if from a non-state, was your biggest advantage and privilege.
I was an illegal immigrant living in Texas until I turned 19 or so, when Nicaraguans were granted amnesty. Since then, my quality of life has only gone up and up.
Simply being an American, even if from a non-state, was your biggest advantage and privilege.
I was an illegal immigrant living in Texas until I turned 19 or so, when Nicaraguans were granted amnesty. Since then, my quality of life has only gone up and up.
You know what I always find so hilarious. How people always seem to qualify luck - even when they show us how lucky they have actually been.
I continuously hear statements like "it's partly luck", or "luck is obviously a component of it", or "luck is clearly a factor", or "luck plays a role" [1] - all attempting to downplay the enormous magnitude random chance has on our daily lives. Hell, they might even put numbers on it like "it's probably 50% luck", or "90% luck". Nobody seems willing to go all they way to and just come out and say "Yeah - I got really lucky and that's about all there is to the story".
The just world fallacy is a very, very strong illusion.
Life's a crapshoot. It's all luck.
[1] - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5174488
I continuously hear statements like "it's partly luck", or "luck is obviously a component of it", or "luck is clearly a factor", or "luck plays a role" [1] - all attempting to downplay the enormous magnitude random chance has on our daily lives. Hell, they might even put numbers on it like "it's probably 50% luck", or "90% luck". Nobody seems willing to go all they way to and just come out and say "Yeah - I got really lucky and that's about all there is to the story".
The just world fallacy is a very, very strong illusion.
Life's a crapshoot. It's all luck.
[1] - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5174488
This is one of the discussed problems of philosophy and it gets a bit complicated when you start on quantum physics and relativity.
Some info.
http://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/1210/in-which-...
Some info.
http://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/1210/in-which-...
Still our brain is, for all practical purposes, a classical machine. No quantum effects are observed at the neuron level. So we can't use indeterminism to save free will.
Luck are unexpected good things that happen to you and that you didn't work for. It has little to do with randomness in a physical sense and thus philosophical discussions about determinism aren't really relevant in this context.
Look further down the discussion chain. confluence has been telling people to "learn physics" and seems to be equating luck with random chance or determinism.
Luck is merely preferable random chance. I never argued for determinism. I argued for probabilistic determinism.
Are you suggesting that outcomes are purely the result of random chance, and that an individual's values and behavior have no bearing?
Where you do think your values and behaviours came from in the first place?
Your values/behaviours are given to you via both your genes and your environment - which are effectively random. If your parents were prone to addictive behaviour in an environment that provides addictive substances - you will probably do the same.
This reminds me of thing I've always found highly curious about how the religious think.
They can't seem to understand that their choice in religion is relatively arbitrary and geographically dependent. Born in America you're Christian. Born in Pakistan now you're Muslim. Born in India now you're Hindu. Born in Israel now you're Jewish.
The fact that people can't seem to understand that the reason they believe in X god instead of Y is merely a question of a few hundred miles.
Life is particularly arbitrary. For example: I'm an atheist because of my environment (middle-class male, western country, studies science and technology, with access to freedom of speech). This is irrelevant as to whether atheism is actually the right option (which I believe it is - but then of course I would :) - the key fact to understand here is how the environment determined it.
Finally, physics eliminates the case for free will. So yes - you do what you do because you were set up to do it.
We're all just biological machines.
Your values/behaviours are given to you via both your genes and your environment - which are effectively random. If your parents were prone to addictive behaviour in an environment that provides addictive substances - you will probably do the same.
This reminds me of thing I've always found highly curious about how the religious think.
They can't seem to understand that their choice in religion is relatively arbitrary and geographically dependent. Born in America you're Christian. Born in Pakistan now you're Muslim. Born in India now you're Hindu. Born in Israel now you're Jewish.
The fact that people can't seem to understand that the reason they believe in X god instead of Y is merely a question of a few hundred miles.
Life is particularly arbitrary. For example: I'm an atheist because of my environment (middle-class male, western country, studies science and technology, with access to freedom of speech). This is irrelevant as to whether atheism is actually the right option (which I believe it is - but then of course I would :) - the key fact to understand here is how the environment determined it.
Finally, physics eliminates the case for free will. So yes - you do what you do because you were set up to do it.
We're all just biological machines.
Finally, physics eliminates the case for free will.
Ever realized that physics (as a science) is incomplete?
Ever realized that physics (as a science) is incomplete?
That sounds like a "free will of the gaps" argument (cf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps )
> We're all just biological machines.
Okay, let me rephrase the question. Do you believe that a biological machine's algorithm (i.e. values and behavior) has any bearing on outcome?
Okay, let me rephrase the question. Do you believe that a biological machine's algorithm (i.e. values and behavior) has any bearing on outcome?
Yes. But you should notice how we don't blame machine no. X for not doing it's job correctly (aka having buggy programs run on it) - it does exactly what it was supposed to do.
No - we blame the programmer/hardware manufacturer for screwing things up - which in the case of humans is the environment and genes.
No - we blame the programmer/hardware manufacturer for screwing things up - which in the case of humans is the environment and genes.
Your reductionist mindset seems to be on a path of destruction, leaving many useful abstractions in its wake.
Is a car actually a car, or is it just a collection of atoms? It's both. Does the car actually drive, or is it just physics? It's both - "driving" is a subset of physics that acts on a collection of atoms known as a "car".
When people say "luck", they are usually referring to external circumstances not under the influence of the biological machine's algorithm. To say that luck is the only factor, or never a factor, is wrong. Given similar inputs, some algorithms will excel and some will fail.
You certainly can "blame" an algorithm for certain outcomes. How the algorithm formed is a red-herring.
Is a car actually a car, or is it just a collection of atoms? It's both. Does the car actually drive, or is it just physics? It's both - "driving" is a subset of physics that acts on a collection of atoms known as a "car".
When people say "luck", they are usually referring to external circumstances not under the influence of the biological machine's algorithm. To say that luck is the only factor, or never a factor, is wrong. Given similar inputs, some algorithms will excel and some will fail.
You certainly can "blame" an algorithm for certain outcomes. How the algorithm formed is a red-herring.
> When people say "luck", they are usually referring to external circumstances not under the influence of the biological machine's algorithm
Your DNA, aka the algorithm that is who you are, is given to you by the external environment - you have no control over it, and neither do you have any control over your upbringing - rich/poor/race/sex.
Your argument is, well, void.
Your DNA, aka the algorithm that is who you are, is given to you by the external environment - you have no control over it, and neither do you have any control over your upbringing - rich/poor/race/sex.
Your argument is, well, void.
I don't understand the reasoning behind your comment here.
First, how does physics eliminate the possibility of free will?
Second, why are you even bothering to tell us this?
How do you personally justify taking any action in life, as the pointlessness of it all clearly hasn't escaped you. Yet, from my naive perspective, I see someone determined to have their self-perceived intellectual superiority and ability to transcend it all recognized. I don't understand why, though.
First, how does physics eliminate the possibility of free will?
Second, why are you even bothering to tell us this?
How do you personally justify taking any action in life, as the pointlessness of it all clearly hasn't escaped you. Yet, from my naive perspective, I see someone determined to have their self-perceived intellectual superiority and ability to transcend it all recognized. I don't understand why, though.
> physics eliminate the possibility of free will
Go do some physics - then come back to me.
> why are you even bothering to tell us this?
I don't know. There really isn't any point to it. I'm not here to convince you.
> taking any action in life
I'm programmed to take actions - 4 billion years of evolution tends to do that.
> self-perceived intellectual superiority and ability to transcend it all recognized.
Never said I was smarter than anyone. Just said that people were wrong. There is a difference.
Go do some physics - then come back to me.
> why are you even bothering to tell us this?
I don't know. There really isn't any point to it. I'm not here to convince you.
> taking any action in life
I'm programmed to take actions - 4 billion years of evolution tends to do that.
> self-perceived intellectual superiority and ability to transcend it all recognized.
Never said I was smarter than anyone. Just said that people were wrong. There is a difference.
Are people that use Newtonian physics to calculate bilard ball movement also wrong? They know theorethically they should use general relativity, but they also know it won't change the result in any meaningful way. So they optimize it away.
Thinking of yourself as probability function interconnected with the whole universe all the time must be pretty inconvenient for you. Why not simplify it to "this factors are ME, and the rest it external Universe, and the interactions can be rounded to work mostly like Newton said. Bonus - your algorithm now knows almost exactly which parts of that function are under his direct control. It's very useful model, why not use it?
We're not sure our current best model is The Truth anyway. And notion of free will is another useful simplification. You already think in its terms (English is impossible to use otherways).
Thinking of yourself as probability function interconnected with the whole universe all the time must be pretty inconvenient for you. Why not simplify it to "this factors are ME, and the rest it external Universe, and the interactions can be rounded to work mostly like Newton said. Bonus - your algorithm now knows almost exactly which parts of that function are under his direct control. It's very useful model, why not use it?
We're not sure our current best model is The Truth anyway. And notion of free will is another useful simplification. You already think in its terms (English is impossible to use otherways).
> Go do some physics - then come back to me.
I've actually thought about this a long time ago -- back in high school, and came to the conclusion that if everything were to follow a certain set of "laws", then indeed free will wouldn't exist.
But that isn't the case. Have you heard of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle for starters? If not, look more deeply into physics. After a certain point, the "laws" stop governing, and probability takes over. Probability leaves room for multiple possiblities -- a.k.a. choice. I can't say an electron chooses to be at position X at time T, but I can say that the fact that you can't determine it's positions and that it does tend to be "wherever it wants" within a certain range, hints at something of the kind. For more lookup the "Free Will Theorem": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will_theorem
I've actually thought about this a long time ago -- back in high school, and came to the conclusion that if everything were to follow a certain set of "laws", then indeed free will wouldn't exist.
But that isn't the case. Have you heard of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle for starters? If not, look more deeply into physics. After a certain point, the "laws" stop governing, and probability takes over. Probability leaves room for multiple possiblities -- a.k.a. choice. I can't say an electron chooses to be at position X at time T, but I can say that the fact that you can't determine it's positions and that it does tend to be "wherever it wants" within a certain range, hints at something of the kind. For more lookup the "Free Will Theorem": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_will_theorem
QM has Schrödinger's equation at its core - and it is deterministic.
This is getting frustrating. Physics being at the beginning of the causal chain does not invalidate latter sections of the chain. If "A → B → C", pointing out "A → B" does not make "B → C" false.
A = physics
B = individual values and behavior (aka "algorithm")
C = outcome
A = physics
B = individual values and behavior (aka "algorithm")
C = outcome
Indeed so. But still how much luck is there between B and C? Some[0] argue there might be quite a lot of it, which we don't notice, overestimating causality. (Not to say it's bad—imagine constantly keeping in mind that our lives largely depend on chance.)
[0] Like author of Fooled by Randomness, an interesting book on the subject.
[0] Like author of Fooled by Randomness, an interesting book on the subject.
There is not a one to one relationship between B and C. Luck factors between those two points as well.
My problem with this kind of absolute determinism is that it reduces everything to pointlessness. So much so that you can't really stick with the idea for any length of time. For example, from your top post:
"You know what I always find so hilarious. How people always seem to qualify luck - even when they show us how lucky they have actually been. ..."
What's so funny about it? Their fallacies are predetermined anyway. (Tangent: how can you call it luck, coming from this perspective?)
So it seems to me a particularly useless line of thought. I'm not saying you can't indulge in it for kicks, but doesn't provide any useful input to behavior.
"You know what I always find so hilarious. How people always seem to qualify luck - even when they show us how lucky they have actually been. ..."
What's so funny about it? Their fallacies are predetermined anyway. (Tangent: how can you call it luck, coming from this perspective?)
So it seems to me a particularly useless line of thought. I'm not saying you can't indulge in it for kicks, but doesn't provide any useful input to behavior.
> reduces everything to pointlessness
Well then - I guess you'd really hate physics then, a field that reduces everything you see around you to a series of equations with a tad of randomness thrown in for good measure.
Now then - if you don't believe humans obey the law of physics - well then - that's your problem.
Well then - I guess you'd really hate physics then, a field that reduces everything you see around you to a series of equations with a tad of randomness thrown in for good measure.
Now then - if you don't believe humans obey the law of physics - well then - that's your problem.
I don't have a problem with physics, I just think that applying this level of determinism to human interactions is useless. And as I said, if you have completely internalized that yourself, how is it that you are question other people's behavior? It is, after all, predetermined.
To put it another way, it's like trying to fix a watch with a shotgun. And as long as you would like to keep the watch, I'd say save the shotgun for other uses.
Pure determinism is fun to play with, and you can believe that it is the ultimate answer, but it has no real use here and now.
This is separate to my main point, but I like this quote from E. F. Schumacher: "Relativism and positivism, of course, are purely metaphysical doctrines with the peculiar and ironical distinction that they deny the validity of all metaphysics. including themselves."
To put it another way, it's like trying to fix a watch with a shotgun. And as long as you would like to keep the watch, I'd say save the shotgun for other uses.
Pure determinism is fun to play with, and you can believe that it is the ultimate answer, but it has no real use here and now.
This is separate to my main point, but I like this quote from E. F. Schumacher: "Relativism and positivism, of course, are purely metaphysical doctrines with the peculiar and ironical distinction that they deny the validity of all metaphysics. including themselves."
I never said absolute determinism (notice the randomness in the line).
You took down a straw man.
You took down a straw man.
You didn't have it in the previous post in which you said this:
"Finally, physics eliminates the case for free will. So yes - you do what you do because you were set up to do it."
Also, for the purposes of my argument randomness doesn't really matter, anyway. It's whether you exclude free will or not.
"Finally, physics eliminates the case for free will. So yes - you do what you do because you were set up to do it."
Also, for the purposes of my argument randomness doesn't really matter, anyway. It's whether you exclude free will or not.
physics <> determinsm
I'm constantly intrigued by how people can keep such dual world views. Like Christians who also believe in natural selection. It seems like they don't really want to think it through, so whatever they just accept both conflicting notions. If you come to understand and appreciate high-school level physics, chemistry and the workings of the brain, which most high-schoolers don't, it really strikes me as conflicting how you could not become a determinist. We're just machines fueled by chemistry.
> I'm constantly intrigued by how people can keep such dual world views. Like Christians who also believe in natural selection.
I'm not a Christian, but I can easily see how someone could be a Christian while not accepting the fundamentalist outlook (i.e. that the world is only 6,000 years old, we're not descended from other species, etc.). Those "other" Christians believe in God, but don't accept the literal interpretation of the Old Testament.
To argue that all Christians are fundamentalists would be like arguing the all Muslims want to fly airplanes into buildings. As a viewpoint, it lacks evidence.
Even Einstein held something resembling a religious outlook -- but his supreme being couldn't be bothered to deal with us lowly insects:
“I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.”
Also, remember that, until the end of the 19th century, there was no plausible way for the sun to have been in existence for more than a few million years (in that pre-relativistic era, the sun's energy was thought to arise only from gravitational contraction), which wasn't enough time to support Darwin's timetable. So at that time, even scientists couldn't explain how complex species arose.
> We're just machines fueled by chemistry.
That's my outlook also, but I can see how religious people might possess different views on the literalness of scripture.
I'm not a Christian, but I can easily see how someone could be a Christian while not accepting the fundamentalist outlook (i.e. that the world is only 6,000 years old, we're not descended from other species, etc.). Those "other" Christians believe in God, but don't accept the literal interpretation of the Old Testament.
To argue that all Christians are fundamentalists would be like arguing the all Muslims want to fly airplanes into buildings. As a viewpoint, it lacks evidence.
Even Einstein held something resembling a religious outlook -- but his supreme being couldn't be bothered to deal with us lowly insects:
“I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.”
Also, remember that, until the end of the 19th century, there was no plausible way for the sun to have been in existence for more than a few million years (in that pre-relativistic era, the sun's energy was thought to arise only from gravitational contraction), which wasn't enough time to support Darwin's timetable. So at that time, even scientists couldn't explain how complex species arose.
> We're just machines fueled by chemistry.
That's my outlook also, but I can see how religious people might possess different views on the literalness of scripture.
It's called cognitive dissonance. It's how religious people can argue on an internet developed using science or risk their lives to machines made with science. They never join the two logically incompatible worlds.
physics = probabilistic determinism
>Your values/behaviours are given to you via both your genes and your environment - which are effectively random.
This is an information free sentence. Everything that makes me _me_ comes from my genes and my environment. If it were much different, I wouldn't be me. If you are attributing everything I do to an external force even though it goes through the intermediate step of my identity and skills in the process, then you just have a tautological statement. Sure, things happen because things happen. Bravo, but I'm also one of those things.
This is an information free sentence. Everything that makes me _me_ comes from my genes and my environment. If it were much different, I wouldn't be me. If you are attributing everything I do to an external force even though it goes through the intermediate step of my identity and skills in the process, then you just have a tautological statement. Sure, things happen because things happen. Bravo, but I'm also one of those things.
Point being, a whole lot of what makes you "you" is completely not in your hands. Not free will. I didn't choose to get born.
To dictate policies that advocate punishing and killing people for what they had no control over (like being born in a muslim-majority country) is folly, or worse - a justification for bad behavior.
To dictate policies that advocate punishing and killing people for what they had no control over (like being born in a muslim-majority country) is folly, or worse - a justification for bad behavior.
The point of that sentence was to indicate two things. Firstly your existence is random. Secondly - you are wholly the product of your arbitrary environment. That is all.
> Yeah - I got really lucky and that's about all there is to the story
Meditate on what a philosophy like this, universally held, would do to morality.
Personally, I think it would improve it.
Meditate on what a philosophy like this, universally held, would do to morality.
Personally, I think it would improve it.
I love how you articulate the privileges you've had in your life, which buoyed your career. It's a rare exercise and one that I encourage people to do. All too often, we take for granted these "invisible stepping-stones" that brought us to where we are now (I recently wrote about these invisible privileges for the Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rey-faustino/the-empathy-gap_b...).
I also was an immigrant to the US, and it sounds like we have a similar immigration story. I wonder what it would be like to be born in a low-income community in the US where social mobility is difficult. Do you think you would be where you are now if you grew up in that kind of environment?
I also was an immigrant to the US, and it sounds like we have a similar immigration story. I wonder what it would be like to be born in a low-income community in the US where social mobility is difficult. Do you think you would be where you are now if you grew up in that kind of environment?
That's a great read too. Is the paraphrasing of Peggy McIntosh intentional? Her "Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack" (http://ted.coe.wayne.edu/ele3600/mcintosh.html) is a classic in sociology and race studies literature, for anyone interested.
That was probably the proximate quote, but interestingly this has been a fairly common metaphor. Catullus is the oldest use I'm aware of, but I have no doubt it is older.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Catullus_22
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Catullus_22
Entirely intentional. When someone related the concept to me, I realized I was carrying around a knapsack of my own, filled with things unusual for a hispanic person of my background.
>I wonder what it would be like to be born in a low-income community in the US where social mobility is difficult.
I fit that description.
In short, my personal, anecdotal experience says immigrants often place a greater value on education, recognize more viable options for success, are more supportive of each other and have less fear of stepping out of their comfort zone.
I saw no shortage of people hamstrung by each of those things growing up, particularly the de-valuing of education.
I fit that description.
In short, my personal, anecdotal experience says immigrants often place a greater value on education, recognize more viable options for success, are more supportive of each other and have less fear of stepping out of their comfort zone.
I saw no shortage of people hamstrung by each of those things growing up, particularly the de-valuing of education.
Yes, immigrant communities historically have been known to be more collaborative and to have more upward social mobility because of that.
When I worked in East Palo Alto, which is a low-income community in the heart of Silicon Valley, I sometimes felt like it was like living and working in a bucket full of lobsters. Instead of being helped up out of the bucket, we'd get clawed down.
But slowly and surely, the work of community leaders, nonprofits and community organizers are changing this landscape and building up a new generation of kids who think differently.
When I worked in East Palo Alto, which is a low-income community in the heart of Silicon Valley, I sometimes felt like it was like living and working in a bucket full of lobsters. Instead of being helped up out of the bucket, we'd get clawed down.
But slowly and surely, the work of community leaders, nonprofits and community organizers are changing this landscape and building up a new generation of kids who think differently.
The main reason is:
'Immigrants' do not have 'welfare' support.
Mostly are 'undocumented'.
Yes.. we can get at ER and school. but no stamps, disability or unemployment checks.
So we have to help each other and never rely on gov...
Yes.. we can get at ER and school. but no stamps, disability or unemployment checks.
So we have to help each other and never rely on gov...
I don't like including values in "privilege" because it removes the normative force behind such values. While luck plays a role in success, especially great success, it is well within the reach of many people to get ahead by adopting the right values. Furthermore, adopting these values will make the world a better place and reduce the burden on public services.
I know that non-judgment is the default modern moral stance. But there ought to be a way that we can advertise and support the values of self-reliance and respect for others without sounding accusative. Yes, luck plays a part in success, but why are we so focused on that part and not the easily repeatable values that will help out most poor people who adopt them?
I know that non-judgment is the default modern moral stance. But there ought to be a way that we can advertise and support the values of self-reliance and respect for others without sounding accusative. Yes, luck plays a part in success, but why are we so focused on that part and not the easily repeatable values that will help out most poor people who adopt them?
What you may be missing is that values must be taught.
And not everyone gets that tutelage. The values may be universal, but the opportunity to learn them is less so.
And not everyone gets that tutelage. The values may be universal, but the opportunity to learn them is less so.
Hey, I don't know you at all, and I'm truly only pulling your chain, and maybe I am missing your natural humor but shortly before you write of the privilege of values, and how you knew Anthony was wrong in thieving candy, you were using "a pirated copy of Photoshop".
I had no one to teach me the values of intellectual property. :)
But I think we can agree that while I harmed Adobe not at all through my transgression (they have been more than paid back in licenses bought since), that store lost real money.
But I think we can agree that while I harmed Adobe not at all through my transgression (they have been more than paid back in licenses bought since), that store lost real money.
Though it would be a real challenge to quantify, I bet that Adobe ultimately made more money in the end out of the arrangement than if you had simply foregone learning the software, using those skills with legitimately purchased tools later, and indirectly through contributions to the wider industry.
However, that just means that in this case where the alternative was no use Adobe wasn't hurt by pirating. However, in another situation when the alternative to pirating is the sale of software, the loss isn't any less real than the loss to the candy store of not selling candy because it was stolen.
--
On another topic, do you believe that there would be significantly more opportunity in Puerto Rico with statehood?
However, that just means that in this case where the alternative was no use Adobe wasn't hurt by pirating. However, in another situation when the alternative to pirating is the sale of software, the loss isn't any less real than the loss to the candy store of not selling candy because it was stolen.
--
On another topic, do you believe that there would be significantly more opportunity in Puerto Rico with statehood?
In Adobe's case, they lost no bytes by my gaining them. The candy store lost inventory that they had to replace.
I'm honestly not qualified to give an answer re: statehood. I'm so removed from the politics of Puerto Rico, I don't even know what levers matter there. My hunch is that the issues run deeper, though.
I'm honestly not qualified to give an answer re: statehood. I'm so removed from the politics of Puerto Rico, I don't even know what levers matter there. My hunch is that the issues run deeper, though.
Copyright infringement is not stealing, it is copyright infringement.
> luck plays a role in success
A role? A part? Are you serious?
> adopting these values will make the world a better place and reduce the burden on public services
That's such bullshit. "If only poor people would just work harder and save more - everything would be awesome". Reality check: poor people work long, hard hours for minimum wage with no hope of escape.
> luck plays a part in success
Delusion - it is strong with this one.
A role? A part? Are you serious?
> adopting these values will make the world a better place and reduce the burden on public services
That's such bullshit. "If only poor people would just work harder and save more - everything would be awesome". Reality check: poor people work long, hard hours for minimum wage with no hope of escape.
> luck plays a part in success
Delusion - it is strong with this one.
While I can't disagree with much of this, you need to check your glibness at the door. Especially stupid sentences like "Delusion - it is strong with this one." The whole point of commenting should be part of an attempt to inform others. When you're acting like a jerk, no one's going to take you seriously, and no one's going to learn anything from you.
I've recently realised that arguing doesn't really ever convince anyone of anything - nor does it help teach the other side - everyone just doubles down and doesn't budge.
My goal with my comments is not to convince you. Neither is it to teach you. Rather it's to help me think about my own opinions by writing them down.
I'm not here to convince or teach anyone. I'm here to write.
My goal with my comments is not to convince you. Neither is it to teach you. Rather it's to help me think about my own opinions by writing them down.
I'm not here to convince or teach anyone. I'm here to write.
There are all sorts of privileges that we should spread more widely. Good education. Supportive family. Great teachers. Solid role models. And yes, good values.
I didn't see a bit of accusation in the original post. Maybe you're hearing that because you brought it in with you?
I didn't see a bit of accusation in the original post. Maybe you're hearing that because you brought it in with you?
[deleted]
Very interesting take, especially at the end in enumerating privileges. I had a similar experience with my own Mom's Macintosh SE being the gateway to my life in tech, and I don't know what I would done if she didn't introduce me to that at such a young age. I have been so lucky. Born in the States (even though mom's a foreigner which was a blessing in a lot of ways on account of the work ethic she tried to bestow upon me), college educated male with tech skills that were developed sort of circumstantially but very intensely at a very early age -- I feel so lucky, as if I "had a winning lottery ticket" for sure. And now, even as I am finally able to enjoy the the excitement and passion of a career that is exactly what I want to be doing -- I find myself so often feeling so incredibly anxious about why I am not doing more to help others gain access to my world. Frankly, I think that it's rare that (and sad that it's rare that) we have open discussions in the tech community about that word "privilege" where there isn't an INTENSE amount of denial, apathy, minimization, skepticism and disbelief (which, sadly, are some of the most common results of such privilege). For me, this post was a breath of fresh air that adequately expressed a lot of what I feel everyday -- I feel so lucky, but I feel so torn. Yes, I think I worked really hard to make good on my skills and develop them. No, I do not think that makes the world even remotely fair. Yes, I still feel like it is so unfair that in a lot of respects it is almost CERTAINLY a lottery. Yes, it continues to bother me that I feel sort of powerless about that divide, but yes, I would like to bridge that. Perhaps part of that is to start blogging as you have. I think that's what I like so much about this post: you are really leading by example in a way that is rare and yet quite needed. Good on you, and I look forward to reading more.
> Frankly, I think that it's rare that (and sad that it's rare that) we have open discussions in the tech community about that word "privilege" where there isn't an INTENSE amount of denial, apathy, minimization, skepticism and disbelief (which, sadly, are some of the most common results of such privilege)
Thank you for your comment – I'm glad you appreciated it, and that you mentioned the hostility a lot of this conversation can breed.
Part of the problem, I think, is that it feels like an accusation to tell someone about their privileges. No one likes to be confronted, no one likes to feel like their hard work is being short-changed.
So I decided to try and turn the conversation around. Maybe it'll be better received.
Thank you for your comment – I'm glad you appreciated it, and that you mentioned the hostility a lot of this conversation can breed.
Part of the problem, I think, is that it feels like an accusation to tell someone about their privileges. No one likes to be confronted, no one likes to feel like their hard work is being short-changed.
So I decided to try and turn the conversation around. Maybe it'll be better received.
You and the author are looking for the word advantage, not privilege. A person wih an advantage plays by the same rules as others, but does better. An advantage is not necessarily earned. Privilege means to not have to follow the same rules as others and that's not what happened here.
I'm irked that you've set yourself up to call this proof of privilege to discredit any disagreement. If you want there to be more discussion of the role that luck plays in our lives, you should not do that.
I'm irked that you've set yourself up to call this proof of privilege to discredit any disagreement. If you want there to be more discussion of the role that luck plays in our lives, you should not do that.
Your word parsing isn't helping your case. According to AHED, privilege is defined as:
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people
Believe me. These advantages were not universally available. I got lucky.
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people
Believe me. These advantages were not universally available. I got lucky.
A privilege is something like being Kim Jong Un instead of most other North Koreans. The advantage in that privilege definition is confusing here since it means an explicitly granted one but no rule-making power intervened in your life in that way.
An advantage is like having a secret television in North Korea or living near the northern Chinese border. The rules for escape and censure apply exactly the same as they do to others, but the situation one randomly finds oneself in makes beating the game easier. That's your situation.
An advantage is like having a secret television in North Korea or living near the northern Chinese border. The rules for escape and censure apply exactly the same as they do to others, but the situation one randomly finds oneself in makes beating the game easier. That's your situation.
In this case privilege is a technical term. He is using it correctly.
You may not be intending to come across this way, but as one white guy to another, a common way people avoid recognizing these sorts of privileges and avoid discussing social inequity is to quibble about little details. Like, say, the definition of a word.
You may not be intending to come across this way, but as one white guy to another, a common way people avoid recognizing these sorts of privileges and avoid discussing social inequity is to quibble about little details. Like, say, the definition of a word.
It may be considered a technical term, but it actually isn't precise, and it carries over connotations of the real meaning of the word that cause further errors. I'm not saying Danilo has made an error, as he's just copying others' use of the word, but his use of it has made it possible for someone to see an injustice to correct by removing his exclusive rule where there is actually only a mother who seized random, but legitimate opportunity, and one we actually want more people to have. Do you see the difference?
And yes, I'm aware of the meme that I'm taking issue with something said about social justice so I'm privileged (so to speak) or racist, and I think it is a disgusting lie to propagate. I wish you would please stop trying to do that to people. Ironically, I have many straightforward and interesting conversations about this with the people who we want to obtain these advantages. As more economically disadvantaged move to the United States, I'm looking forward to having a larger supply of honest conversation partners.
And yes, I'm aware of the meme that I'm taking issue with something said about social justice so I'm privileged (so to speak) or racist, and I think it is a disgusting lie to propagate. I wish you would please stop trying to do that to people. Ironically, I have many straightforward and interesting conversations about this with the people who we want to obtain these advantages. As more economically disadvantaged move to the United States, I'm looking forward to having a larger supply of honest conversation partners.
Most people who participate in these discussions have no problem understanding what the word means.
The fact that some people have an opportunity that others don't and that the distribution of those opportunities is unequal is definitely unjust. Is there some particular privilege Danilo has listed that you are thinking of?
Your last paragraph is not entirely coherent, so I'm not sure what you think the lie is. I have personally avoided paying attention to my privilege by quibbling about minor details. And I've seen others do it quite often. I'm not accusing you of doing that; I couldn't know. But I am saying that having your only contribution to this discussion be of that form makes it harder to take your point seriously.
And that goes double for your strong emotional reaction in the post above. E.g., accusing me of propagating disgusting lies and doing things to people. That's a lot of drama, and raising the drama level is a common derailing tactic.
The fact that some people have an opportunity that others don't and that the distribution of those opportunities is unequal is definitely unjust. Is there some particular privilege Danilo has listed that you are thinking of?
Your last paragraph is not entirely coherent, so I'm not sure what you think the lie is. I have personally avoided paying attention to my privilege by quibbling about minor details. And I've seen others do it quite often. I'm not accusing you of doing that; I couldn't know. But I am saying that having your only contribution to this discussion be of that form makes it harder to take your point seriously.
And that goes double for your strong emotional reaction in the post above. E.g., accusing me of propagating disgusting lies and doing things to people. That's a lot of drama, and raising the drama level is a common derailing tactic.
I thank you for pointing this out. I was not in a position where I could do so credibly.
>An advantage is like having a secret television in North Korea or living near the northern Chinese border.
I think one could argue that your example is a privilege.
I think one could argue that your example is a privilege.
Privilege is a technical term. In this sense, he is using it correctly.
I'd like to upvote this even more. The deliberate blurring of the distinction between privilege and advantage reduces our ability as a society to improve things for both the abused and the disadvantaged.
Privilege is latin for private law. It's a special set of rules that can only be offered to a minority like guaranteeing admission spots to top universities to legacies.
Privilege does not describe things that could be offered to everyone but are not out of sheer nastiness. If the state U prohibits blue eyed people from enrolling, that isn't a privilege for everyone else. It's just nasty prejudice against blue-eyes. Nobody is getting special private-law treatment; a minority is just getting shafted.
Advantage could be any number of things, including privilege, but could just be parents that care more about you. Everyone could have that; nobody threatened your parents to make them less caring. Not everybody does have it, though, so it's an advantage.
Privilege is latin for private law. It's a special set of rules that can only be offered to a minority like guaranteeing admission spots to top universities to legacies.
Privilege does not describe things that could be offered to everyone but are not out of sheer nastiness. If the state U prohibits blue eyed people from enrolling, that isn't a privilege for everyone else. It's just nasty prejudice against blue-eyes. Nobody is getting special private-law treatment; a minority is just getting shafted.
Advantage could be any number of things, including privilege, but could just be parents that care more about you. Everyone could have that; nobody threatened your parents to make them less caring. Not everybody does have it, though, so it's an advantage.
I met Danilo (briefly) at a Grubwithus dinner a while back in the SF. It's strange to type, but I never suspected he was Latino based on appearance. I'm in a similar boat, where I pass as white. There have been a number of times in my (so far) short career where it's been made evidently clear that if I didn't pass as white, things would be very different for me.
I appreciate this post though. It's from a perspective I don't hear too often, and I've been slow to contribute my own. So, thanks.
I appreciate this post though. It's from a perspective I don't hear too often, and I've been slow to contribute my own. So, thanks.
I'm in the same boat. Brazilian born to a Brazilian father and British mother. Lived in the US since 4 years of age. I also pass as a white American (but still have to deal with DHS and immigration bullshit because bureaucratic red tape has delayed my ability to apply for citizenship).
Like Danilo said, there is no replacement for having lived and grown up in the United States. I'm a native English speaker, but Portuguese was my first language. I'm fully fluent in Portuguese, but I wish I spoke at native fluency. However I would not trade my native English fluency for native Portuguese fluency. English is simply way too valuable.
Like Danilo said, there is no replacement for having lived and grown up in the United States. I'm a native English speaker, but Portuguese was my first language. I'm fully fluent in Portuguese, but I wish I spoke at native fluency. However I would not trade my native English fluency for native Portuguese fluency. English is simply way too valuable.
Hi again!
Wow, I forgot about that part. I've done that thought experiment a couple times myself, how it would affect things if I looked markedly different. It's always a little scary, honestly.
Wow, I forgot about that part. I've done that thought experiment a couple times myself, how it would affect things if I looked markedly different. It's always a little scary, honestly.
There have been a number of times in my (so far) short career where it's been made evidently clear that if I didn't pass as white, things would be very different for me.
Can you expand on that?
Can you expand on that?
I, too, would love to hear more details. I find it astounding that an industry that does not care about looks (tech) would have something that is evidently very prevalent.
Please do expand.
I look very Hispanic, and have a marked accent. What have I been missing in life?
I look very Hispanic, and have a marked accent. What have I been missing in life?
I look very Indian(but come from the subcontinent, not the country) and have a marked accent(slightly different from Indian). I too am interested in what I have been missing out on. I know as a non-Christian in the South, my chances are probably worse, but I never considered my Hispanic friends(middle class, well educated) to be less privileged than white people.
Yes. I wished I had many upvotes to give for such an expansion! For example, is there someone out there who experience "passing as white" in certain areas of the U.S. but not in others? It's like a Reddit AMA, but better!! If not, maybe OP can go undercover as a "real hispanic"?
Thanks for sharing! I loved the way you sum up everything
So I stand upon the shoulders of giants. Holding a
winning lottery ticket.
Interesting way of looking at things.
Take away the stability, college-educated parent, examples of success, spare time and replace Caguas with Washington D.C. and we've had a similar experiences.
I've been known to expound to anyone who will listen about the amazing opportunity that I believe a career in tech presents for "climbing out".
I could certainly be wrong, but given my circumstances it's hard to imagine coming as far as I have doing anything else.
Take away the stability, college-educated parent, examples of success, spare time and replace Caguas with Washington D.C. and we've had a similar experiences.
I've been known to expound to anyone who will listen about the amazing opportunity that I believe a career in tech presents for "climbing out".
I could certainly be wrong, but given my circumstances it's hard to imagine coming as far as I have doing anything else.
How'd you get started on that climb out?
Like you demonstrate, there were a number of privileges that laid the foundation, but the earliest pivotal point probably came when I was teenager somewhere around '93.
I started spending all my free time reading about computers (I didn't own one) at the public library, later extending that to used books and eventually saving up to buy a used IBM XT.
I managed to teach myself enough to impress the office folks at my landscaping job, gained some part time experience there, landed an internship and had my first "real" IT job by late '97.
I started spending all my free time reading about computers (I didn't own one) at the public library, later extending that to used books and eventually saving up to buy a used IBM XT.
I managed to teach myself enough to impress the office folks at my landscaping job, gained some part time experience there, landed an internship and had my first "real" IT job by late '97.
So many feels as I read this.
That's fantastic – you make me feel like I was doing my run on easy mode. A great argument in favor of funding for public libraries, or their 21st-century equivalent.
Way to get it done.
That's fantastic – you make me feel like I was doing my run on easy mode. A great argument in favor of funding for public libraries, or their 21st-century equivalent.
Way to get it done.
>A great argument in favor of funding for public libraries, or their 21st-century equivalent.
Yeah, I think about this often.
The public library was a huge part of my life from as early as I can remember - my window to the world.
That hasn't changed for a lot of people, but the method of delivery is different. The library is now a place to access the Internet. It puts things in perspective to see people line up at the library for a time-limited shot at the kind of access to information I've grown to take for granted.
This leads to be a strong supporter of efforts to spread cheap/free Internet access.
Yeah, I think about this often.
The public library was a huge part of my life from as early as I can remember - my window to the world.
That hasn't changed for a lot of people, but the method of delivery is different. The library is now a place to access the Internet. It puts things in perspective to see people line up at the library for a time-limited shot at the kind of access to information I've grown to take for granted.
This leads to be a strong supporter of efforts to spread cheap/free Internet access.
Not just cheap internet, but also more free/open books. Also less restricted access to journals, research papers, etc.
That list doesn't really contain many privileges in the "unpacking the knapsack" sense, in that they aren't advantages you have just because of your race/class/gender. If anything it shows that these opportunities/advantages are available to those to who pursue them whether it be you or your parents or your country.
Perhaps you are underestimating the impact that hard work has had on your life and over-estimating the impact of "privileges" you list. Certainly, you were born into such favorable circumstances (although your parents/family seemed to have been very intentional in creating that for you) but you wouldn't be successful in tech without the hard work part. I wonder what motivates you to emphasize the former and not the latter?
Perhaps you are underestimating the impact that hard work has had on your life and over-estimating the impact of "privileges" you list. Certainly, you were born into such favorable circumstances (although your parents/family seemed to have been very intentional in creating that for you) but you wouldn't be successful in tech without the hard work part. I wonder what motivates you to emphasize the former and not the latter?
> in that they aren't advantages you have just because of your race/class/gender.
Clearly not – they are advantages that are atypical to my race and starting class, but entirely typical to a great many of the people I've encountered in my work. That's what was interesting to me about the exploration.
> but you wouldn't be successful in tech without the hard work part.
I completely agree. I'll put it to you like this: I may have run in the race, and that was all my effort, but someone needed to first put me on plane for me to even compete.
Clearly not – they are advantages that are atypical to my race and starting class, but entirely typical to a great many of the people I've encountered in my work. That's what was interesting to me about the exploration.
> but you wouldn't be successful in tech without the hard work part.
I completely agree. I'll put it to you like this: I may have run in the race, and that was all my effort, but someone needed to first put me on plane for me to even compete.
I'll put it to you like this: I may have run in the race, and that was all my effort, but someone needed to first put me on plane for me to even compete.
Sure, but they worked hard to be able to put on that plane. That you recognized the opportunity and took it is a tribute to you and them. It sounds like you're the product of a lot of hard work (and maybe a little luck). Why minimize that by calling it privilege? It does a disservice to you and those who've helped you.
Sure, but they worked hard to be able to put on that plane. That you recognized the opportunity and took it is a tribute to you and them. It sounds like you're the product of a lot of hard work (and maybe a little luck). Why minimize that by calling it privilege? It does a disservice to you and those who've helped you.
Well, that's the important point about this.
It is privilege because not everyone got parents who gave a damn.
Not everyone got parents who would bother to teach them things or buy them a computer. Some people just aren't getting those things in their lives. And as long as that's true, these things are privileges.
So I am grateful. But I know that you can't universally pick up any given person with my background, tell them to work hard, and have that be enough.
It is privilege because not everyone got parents who gave a damn.
Not everyone got parents who would bother to teach them things or buy them a computer. Some people just aren't getting those things in their lives. And as long as that's true, these things are privileges.
So I am grateful. But I know that you can't universally pick up any given person with my background, tell them to work hard, and have that be enough.
Thanks for taking the time to spell this out for everyone. You've a real knack for putting things in a simple non-offensive manner.
I try to bring up the concept of privilege once in a while, but I find it really hard to get people to think about it. On one hand, it can come off as an attack on your sense of self. And I think it is a blow to certain aspects of your ego. But the intellectual gratification of understanding yourself and how things come to be should make it worth the reconceptualization, even if it didn't tend to make you appreciate your own life as well as the people you spend it with more.
I try to bring up the concept of privilege once in a while, but I find it really hard to get people to think about it. On one hand, it can come off as an attack on your sense of self. And I think it is a blow to certain aspects of your ego. But the intellectual gratification of understanding yourself and how things come to be should make it worth the reconceptualization, even if it didn't tend to make you appreciate your own life as well as the people you spend it with more.
I hate the word privilege (used in this way), but I'm having trouble articulating why. It's become a loaded term, indirectly associated with sexism, racism, and other isms (just look at a Google search - you'll see "male", "white", "straight", etc. - amusingly enough "American" never seems to make the list), so it can too easily come across as an accusation or attempt to guilt. I'm well aware of my privileges and very grateful for them, but it feels like it's not anyone else's business to point them out to me.
Here's a thought experiment - when you try to bring it up, replace the word "privilege" with "blessing" or "luck". Does the concept lose any of its meaning? How do people's reactions change?
Here's a thought experiment - when you try to bring it up, replace the word "privilege" with "blessing" or "luck". Does the concept lose any of its meaning? How do people's reactions change?
There are two things: having privilege, and wielding it over people. If you are white and male and have a good job, you have privilege and there's nothing wrong with that. No one really has a right to check you for that.
If you then go on to tell all kinds of people that you got where you are by working hard and everyone else just has to work hard and they'll get there too, you're minimizing their challenges. They have to work harder to maintain a realistic, positive attitude with respect to the hurdles in front of them, which makes their life harder. Meanwhile, your life is not affected at all by the conversation, you go back to work and are productive. That's wielding your privilege, and that's a dick move, and people have every right to check you for that.
As for the difference between privilege and luck or blessings... Privilege is a kind of continuous luck.... one's maleness pays off throughout their entire life. Finding a dollar on the street is only instantaneous luck. And privilege only applies to things that are substantial advantages in the sort of common denominator pursuits of the median individual. Your maleness helps you earn more money which is something pretty much everyone needs to do. If you have small wrists and can easily clean out the inside of glass jars, that's not really privilege.
As for why you hate the word, perhaps you hate it because you think being sexist and racist means you're evil, therefore having privilege makes you evil. But everyone is sexist sometimes and everyone is racist sometimes. It's harmful, but it doesn't mean you're evil. It's just the way people work. That said, recognizing your racism and sexism and seeking out ways to be less so is an opportunity to be good.
As for people making you feel guilty... No one has a right to make you feel guilty. If they're trying to make you feel bad, they're just being an asshole. That said, they could be simultaneously being an asshole AND checking you on something where you're being an asshole at the same time. If so, I would just forgive them (to yourself) for trying to make you feel bad, and thank them (to their face) for helping you understand better the ways in which you're harming people. Learn something and don't let the petty stuff get in your way.
If you then go on to tell all kinds of people that you got where you are by working hard and everyone else just has to work hard and they'll get there too, you're minimizing their challenges. They have to work harder to maintain a realistic, positive attitude with respect to the hurdles in front of them, which makes their life harder. Meanwhile, your life is not affected at all by the conversation, you go back to work and are productive. That's wielding your privilege, and that's a dick move, and people have every right to check you for that.
As for the difference between privilege and luck or blessings... Privilege is a kind of continuous luck.... one's maleness pays off throughout their entire life. Finding a dollar on the street is only instantaneous luck. And privilege only applies to things that are substantial advantages in the sort of common denominator pursuits of the median individual. Your maleness helps you earn more money which is something pretty much everyone needs to do. If you have small wrists and can easily clean out the inside of glass jars, that's not really privilege.
As for why you hate the word, perhaps you hate it because you think being sexist and racist means you're evil, therefore having privilege makes you evil. But everyone is sexist sometimes and everyone is racist sometimes. It's harmful, but it doesn't mean you're evil. It's just the way people work. That said, recognizing your racism and sexism and seeking out ways to be less so is an opportunity to be good.
As for people making you feel guilty... No one has a right to make you feel guilty. If they're trying to make you feel bad, they're just being an asshole. That said, they could be simultaneously being an asshole AND checking you on something where you're being an asshole at the same time. If so, I would just forgive them (to yourself) for trying to make you feel bad, and thank them (to their face) for helping you understand better the ways in which you're harming people. Learn something and don't let the petty stuff get in your way.
I think the reason it's worth going beyond "blessing" to "privilege" is that some things aren't really "luck" in the sense of some sort of randomly distributed boon. Some are part of self-sustaining systems.
As a straight white guy, I have a hard time saying "Gosh, I'm so lucky to be white." But it has absolutely been an advantage for me.
I don't know that I feel guilty for that, exactly. But I do feel an obligation to use my power responsibly. And if I fail to do that, then I hope I have friends kind and smart enough to call me on it. And that is when I'd feel guilty.
As a straight white guy, I have a hard time saying "Gosh, I'm so lucky to be white." But it has absolutely been an advantage for me.
I don't know that I feel guilty for that, exactly. But I do feel an obligation to use my power responsibly. And if I fail to do that, then I hope I have friends kind and smart enough to call me on it. And that is when I'd feel guilty.
Not everyone with parents who care ends up with a favorable environment, either.
So the question revolves about whether being born to the right set of parents is a privilege or a result of hard work. One could say that it's almost certainly a privilege -- however what about the parents? What about the work they did to give their kid(s) access to those privileges? Just the mere fact that OP's parents made a decision at some point in their lives to say no to alcohol (or heroin or what have you) is something that should be rewarded, if not in their generation, then in the next.
And what about the parents who were systemically denied access to wealth, denied equal access to education, denied the right to vote, and denied equal protection under the law for generations? Isn't freedom from persecution a privilege?
Your argument only makes sense in a bubble where institutional sexism, classism, racism, and xenophobia doesn't exist.
Hard work alone should be enough - but that is an ideal, not the reality.
Your argument only makes sense in a bubble where institutional sexism, classism, racism, and xenophobia doesn't exist.
Hard work alone should be enough - but that is an ideal, not the reality.
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You're missing the analogy by a country mile.
It is a nice perspective to see that other people also live "The American Dream".
I am brazilian, born and raised in Brazil, but had the privilege of coming here twice (Disney) when I was a teenager. This was when I decided to eventually move to US at my first opportunity (20 years old).
It was for sure, the best decision of my life since the opportunities and lifestyle that I have here in US are simply just short of impossible back in Brazil. 7 Years in US gave me the opportunity to really grow professionally and personally.
I think my story is the similar to Danilo's…. Great parents, great support and education when growing up but ultimately, after age 17, "you are by yourself", which also includes paying for you college education if you want one.
For enabling me to get amazing education with scholarships and free content made available by US Colleges and Universities, also to accepting me as one of your own, THANK YOU AMERICA !
I am brazilian, born and raised in Brazil, but had the privilege of coming here twice (Disney) when I was a teenager. This was when I decided to eventually move to US at my first opportunity (20 years old).
It was for sure, the best decision of my life since the opportunities and lifestyle that I have here in US are simply just short of impossible back in Brazil. 7 Years in US gave me the opportunity to really grow professionally and personally.
I think my story is the similar to Danilo's…. Great parents, great support and education when growing up but ultimately, after age 17, "you are by yourself", which also includes paying for you college education if you want one.
For enabling me to get amazing education with scholarships and free content made available by US Colleges and Universities, also to accepting me as one of your own, THANK YOU AMERICA !
Thanks for sharing.
You'll probably like this essay¹, which made it big on HN² a few weeks ago.
¹: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/07/23/a-self-made-man-looks-...
²: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4965041
You'll probably like this essay¹, which made it big on HN² a few weeks ago.
¹: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/07/23/a-self-made-man-looks-...
²: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4965041
For more on the effect of hereditary privilege, read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell.
I wonder if the same commentators who disagree with the author's usage of "privilege," also believe Silicon Valley is a meritocracy.
>I saw breathtaking houses that gave me pole stars for what I could achieve in my life.
Geez Louise. I sure hope you will use all your advantages in life for better purposes than acquiring a fancy mansion. There are so many difficult, but worthwhile problems out there.
Geez Louise. I sure hope you will use all your advantages in life for better purposes than acquiring a fancy mansion. There are so many difficult, but worthwhile problems out there.
Poorly stated, I agree. I meant only to contrast that with the squalor of where I might have grown up instead.
Isn't that, like, the "American Dream"? Don't tell people how to spend their time and money.
He's right, though, buying McMansions is dumb.
Why are you blogging when you could be out there curing cancer? It's a much more worthwhile undertaking.
See? I am also right, in a vague, generic sense. But it's the sort of advice that doesn't contribute anything to your life, and only makes me feel slightly superior.
See? I am also right, in a vague, generic sense. But it's the sort of advice that doesn't contribute anything to your life, and only makes me feel slightly superior.
Partly because I'm too dumb to cure cancer. ;)
But I do take your point. And I am pleased to make your acquaintance, I enjoy your comments.
But I do take your point. And I am pleased to make your acquaintance, I enjoy your comments.
I know there is no point in continuing this useless debate but I wanted to bring to light that if it was financially feasible and I had 6 children, a mansion might actually be USEFUL.
tldr; Won the birth lottery, currently in Ukraine doing some soul searching, arrived at same conclusion that I want to give back but don't know how.
I can't deny I did well in birth lottery, and due to similar circumstances I wound up a programmer with an amazing job and even more amazing opportunities. That's not the point of this post however.
I am currently on holidays in Europe and am spending a month in Ukraine. I can't even begin to describe how the people I've met and the conversions I've had with them have changed me. To sum it up briefly, Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Kiev looks like a modern European capital, and there is obviously money around judging by the number of luxury SUVs on the road. Yet $400/month is considered a good wage, unless one has the appropriate connections. In short, European costs of living coupled with developing world wages.
The post's ending about somehow giving back is what resonated most to me. When I was a student I was fortunate enough to have free time and the money to explore my outside interests; fast forward 4 years and I have taught myself Japanese to fluency and have lived in the country on 3 separate occasions. I've met a student here that who I see a lot of my self in, she gets top grades and has an inexplicable interest in Japan. It is her dream to work there and she studies the language in her spare time. The only difference is that she works a full time job to pay for her studies (unrelated to Japanese) which are also full time. The reality is that she doesn't have the free time I did to learn Japanese, let alone the funds to visit independently. It kills me inside knowing that two weeks of my salary would give her a year of free time and the same opportunity I had to pursue my interest in Japan.
There are a lot of posts below about how education could be a silver bullet. I know what has affected my life most, however, was the ability to pursue my own interests.
Competencies in any area will open doors, maybe not doors as wide as those available to programmers, but doors to better places none the less. In her case Japanese language competency would make her eligible for the MEXT scholarships paid for by the Japanese government.
Honestly, I have debated offering to loan her a year's salary to be paid back if and when it is ever convenient for her. My conclusion is that the same could also be used to sponsor a child through to high school, and something else tells me its just not the right thing to do. Yet I arrive at the same internal conflict that you do, how to give back after winning the lottery.
For the record there are no romantic interests at stake here.
I can't deny I did well in birth lottery, and due to similar circumstances I wound up a programmer with an amazing job and even more amazing opportunities. That's not the point of this post however.
I am currently on holidays in Europe and am spending a month in Ukraine. I can't even begin to describe how the people I've met and the conversions I've had with them have changed me. To sum it up briefly, Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Kiev looks like a modern European capital, and there is obviously money around judging by the number of luxury SUVs on the road. Yet $400/month is considered a good wage, unless one has the appropriate connections. In short, European costs of living coupled with developing world wages.
The post's ending about somehow giving back is what resonated most to me. When I was a student I was fortunate enough to have free time and the money to explore my outside interests; fast forward 4 years and I have taught myself Japanese to fluency and have lived in the country on 3 separate occasions. I've met a student here that who I see a lot of my self in, she gets top grades and has an inexplicable interest in Japan. It is her dream to work there and she studies the language in her spare time. The only difference is that she works a full time job to pay for her studies (unrelated to Japanese) which are also full time. The reality is that she doesn't have the free time I did to learn Japanese, let alone the funds to visit independently. It kills me inside knowing that two weeks of my salary would give her a year of free time and the same opportunity I had to pursue my interest in Japan.
There are a lot of posts below about how education could be a silver bullet. I know what has affected my life most, however, was the ability to pursue my own interests.
Competencies in any area will open doors, maybe not doors as wide as those available to programmers, but doors to better places none the less. In her case Japanese language competency would make her eligible for the MEXT scholarships paid for by the Japanese government.
Honestly, I have debated offering to loan her a year's salary to be paid back if and when it is ever convenient for her. My conclusion is that the same could also be used to sponsor a child through to high school, and something else tells me its just not the right thing to do. Yet I arrive at the same internal conflict that you do, how to give back after winning the lottery.
For the record there are no romantic interests at stake here.
Big kudos for this post, and to you danilocampos!
I had it rough, too. Grew up in a barrio. Where most of my childhood friends are either dead, in jail, or crackheads. Few ever managed to make it into college (I did not). I'm the only one who has actually made something out of himself. But not without a lot of hardships. Not long ago (less than 5 years ago) I was completely broke, no transportation, no job, nothing. But somehow I kept moving forward. Throwing punches whenever I could. Like you, I was lucky. My parents got me a computer ( a C64) early on. No one else in a radius of 5 sq. miles had a computer. It was the best thing to ever happen to me. It gave something for me to hold on to when all my friends were busy learning how to sell drugs. It kept me safe at home when drive-by-shootings started to happen. It also helped me not get a young lady pregnant (which was the norm).
Nowdays, I am an accomplished engineer, marketing consultant, and entrepreneur. I work remotely, with a great team, building a very tough system (that has me writing code like crazy in different languages). Also help great people build their businesses into powerhouses. Best of all, I get to build my own businesses, which I find extremely fun (to the point of even doing some as a hobby). Who knows what would have happened to me had I not discovered my love for code? I know that I would not be able to say how proud I am of reading about a fellow puertorican who has made it. Good luck, and let me know if you ever visit. I know a place who makes great frituras.