North Korea: On the net in world's most secretive nation(bbc.co.uk)
bbc.co.uk
North Korea: On the net in world's most secretive nation
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20445632
8 comments
I always found it surprising that certain people and governments from the East condemn the West for everything and anything, while embracing the technologies which were invented and developed in that same West.
The Nazis invented rocketry.
Are you saying that the moon missions were a hypocritical endorsement of the values of national socialism?
Mechanical tools and politics are generally orthogonal.
Are you saying that the moon missions were a hypocritical endorsement of the values of national socialism?
Mechanical tools and politics are generally orthogonal.
The Saturn V rockets used in the moon missions were largely designed by von Braun and Arthur Rudolph, who were both Nazis to some degree or another.
Well in the case of East Germany at least, most engineering standards were already established so it made no sense to change them.
The problem that they had was ultimately the political and social system that produced the manifestation of the designs. The underlying designs were sound.
I'm slightly inclined to agree with the principles of Marxism-Leninism but it suffered from one of the many things that the human race is good at doing: Good specification, bad implementation.
The problem that they had was ultimately the political and social system that produced the manifestation of the designs. The underlying designs were sound.
I'm slightly inclined to agree with the principles of Marxism-Leninism but it suffered from one of the many things that the human race is good at doing: Good specification, bad implementation.
I doubt that these people know anything about technology. The governments generally hire some companies to do the obscure technology "magic" thing. As for people, most of them have probably never learned a thing about the technologies they use.
I currently live in South Korea. It's interesting to note that I cannot visit any of the DPR government-sponsored North Korean sites. The only way to view content was using Google's cache. Periodic restrictions like this make me appreciate how truly 'open' the internet still is in the United States.
www.korea-dpr.com/
http://i47.tinypic.com/4zw11v.png
www.korea-dpr.com/
http://i47.tinypic.com/4zw11v.png
I'm surprised that posting korea-dpr.com link here has not had the HN effect and crashed it.
I'd love to get my hands on that Red Star OS.
edit: http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/5803379/
edit: http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/5803379/
hacker at heart. For those that do not want to bother with downloading installing and possibly being watched by the En Kay via their new installation: found a review on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUnYQyxjv4s in case you want to consider the pro's and con's of this operation system to win8 or osx before you make your switch
"There's a curious quirk on every official North Korean website. A piece of programming that must be included in each page's code.
Its function is straightforward but important. Whenever leader Kim Jong-un is mentioned, his name is automatically displayed ever so slightly bigger than the text around it. Not by much, but just enough to make it stand out."
http://mgakashim.com/405/kim-jong-un
Its function is straightforward but important. Whenever leader Kim Jong-un is mentioned, his name is automatically displayed ever so slightly bigger than the text around it. Not by much, but just enough to make it stand out."
http://mgakashim.com/405/kim-jong-un
That part of the article is misleading. It's not Javascript that does it, it's just CSS. North Korea do have a small few websites available to the outside world, so I've taken my example from one of them: http://www.kcna.kp
goHome.do (HTML)
goHome.do (HTML)
<nobr><span class='spanT'>Kim Jong Il</span></nobr>′s Whole Life Devoted...
.spanT { font-size: 120%;}The script automatically adds the span around the name saving you from manually adding it every time.
Yours might, but I couldn't find any such script on North Korean sites I sampled. The spans were hardcoded. Don't believe me, run the following from any Linux command line:
Though lets be honest, if reporters get sent to special "revolutionisation" camps for so much as a typo (assuming that part of the article can be trusted), then you're damn well going to remember putting a span around ever instance of North Korea's leadership line. Plus (again assuming the CMS's doesn't handle this) reporters can just find/replace before uploading. I bet it becomes as much a habit as spell checking is for me.
curl http://www.kcna.kp/goHome.do?lang=eng | grep --colour 'Kim Jong Il'
Though lets be honest, if reporters get sent to special "revolutionisation" camps for so much as a typo (assuming that part of the article can be trusted), then you're damn well going to remember putting a span around ever instance of North Korea's leadership line. Plus (again assuming the CMS's doesn't handle this) reporters can just find/replace before uploading. I bet it becomes as much a habit as spell checking is for me.
Oh yeah, I'm aware they don't use any sort of JavaScript. Oh, now I know what you mean. The BBC article said each page contained a piece of programming which automatically made his name appear ever so slightly bigger. They do it manually. You're right.
So the Dear Leader always gets his own hardcoded span element. Hilarious.
One could make an user JavaScript out of this (I guess replacing «span.className= 'kju';» with «span.style.fontSize = '150%';» should be enough) and enjoy the correct typesetting all over the Internet!
They have a facebook that the secret police adore and that is controlled by a corporatist elite.
We have an actual facebook that various security agencies adore and that is owned by Goldman.
One can make the argument... but I'm not making it. I'm just pointing out a similarity.
We have an actual facebook that various security agencies adore and that is owned by Goldman.
One can make the argument... but I'm not making it. I'm just pointing out a similarity.
I wonder if they have a module BigKimJongUn.js or just cnp that function about the place. And what browser do they have? So many questions...
Red Star (the OS used on many North Koran PCs) is a Linux distro running KDE3.x and skinned to look like Windows XP.
It's been a while since I've seen any leaked demos of it, but I seem to recall it supporting / running MS Office via WINE. But I might be wrong on that.
[edit] I think I'm mistaken about MS Office. Glancing through some Russian blogs, it looks like it's Open Office. But due to the XP skinning efforts, it looks very much like MS Office: http://ashen-rus.livejournal.com/4300.html
It's been a while since I've seen any leaked demos of it, but I seem to recall it supporting / running MS Office via WINE. But I might be wrong on that.
[edit] I think I'm mistaken about MS Office. Glancing through some Russian blogs, it looks like it's Open Office. But due to the XP skinning efforts, it looks very much like MS Office: http://ashen-rus.livejournal.com/4300.html
This article seems to provide Red Star donwload links (untested) http://www.openingupnorthkorea.com/archives/325
Looking at, http://www.naenara.com.kp/en/periodic/times/index.php?conten..., it's actually just a
"The readers will be aware of the might of the DPRK that is advancing bravely towards world standard, united single-mindedly around <font style="FONT-SIZE: 17px">Kim Jong Un</font>, supreme leader of the WPK"
Looking at the rest of the code, it seems North Korea has no need for our inferior capitalist stylesheets and favours inline styles. Who knew?!
"The readers will be aware of the might of the DPRK that is advancing bravely towards world standard, united single-mindedly around <font style="FONT-SIZE: 17px">Kim Jong Un</font>, supreme leader of the WPK"
Looking at the rest of the code, it seems North Korea has no need for our inferior capitalist stylesheets and favours inline styles. Who knew?!
In the article it says they have a rebranded version of Firefox called Naenara.
And Naenara, or 내나라, means "my country". It's also the name of the official web portal of the DPRK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naenara
I quickly put one together. http://mgakashim.com/405/kim-jong-un
I’ve tried to adapt your code snippet into an UserScript: http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/154080
It works OK, but I’ve run into a problem with textareas: if a textarea contains the name of the Great Leader, after script executes, the name in textarea is simply deleted.
Maybe you have an idea how this can be fixed?
P.S. By the way, you should consider installing the snippet yourself on your site: unfortunately, your page doesn’t follow the proper typographic rules! :(
It works OK, but I’ve run into a problem with textareas: if a textarea contains the name of the Great Leader, after script executes, the name in textarea is simply deleted.
Maybe you have an idea how this can be fixed?
P.S. By the way, you should consider installing the snippet yourself on your site: unfortunately, your page doesn’t follow the proper typographic rules! :(
Check out the jQuery Highlight Plugin. It does the job in a neater fashion and should be easier to implement. http://bartaz.github.com/sandbox.js/jquery.highlight.html
[deleted]
I actually briefly saw someone using this when I was in Pyongyang recently.
They have mostly older PCs (with CRTs) and the forums are reminiscent of the internet back in the Netscape 4 days. But from what I saw it is very much an intranet that even had a dating forum. But really it is just a toy for the sons/daughters of the elite. See they very much know about the outside world and so this helps them feel like they aren't missing out on something.
Apparently though Indian workers who have been brought in to work on government construction projects e.g. the pyramid hotel can access the 'proper' internet. But I believe the governments sets up a custom WiFi network.
Also since there were no mobile phone towers around I suspect they may have an underground fibre optic network with lots of microcells around.
They have mostly older PCs (with CRTs) and the forums are reminiscent of the internet back in the Netscape 4 days. But from what I saw it is very much an intranet that even had a dating forum. But really it is just a toy for the sons/daughters of the elite. See they very much know about the outside world and so this helps them feel like they aren't missing out on something.
Apparently though Indian workers who have been brought in to work on government construction projects e.g. the pyramid hotel can access the 'proper' internet. But I believe the governments sets up a custom WiFi network.
Also since there were no mobile phone towers around I suspect they may have an underground fibre optic network with lots of microcells around.
This is why we need to keep the Internet as free and open as we can. Progress and innovation happens on the Internet because of that reason. Imagine if the whole Internet was as restricted as the one in North Korea. It makes me very angry that UN is trying to restrict it even a little bit (or maybe a lot) right now. And ironically they say they want to do it to "accelerate" Internet's growth, which sounds very unlikely, and the opposite seems more likely.
I wish people would stop talking about the UN as though it is some third party government. It is a democratic organisation that is merely a reflection of the agendas of the 193 member countries.
So rather than blaming the UN instead blame the specific countries who are pushing for changes that you don't agree with.
So rather than blaming the UN instead blame the specific countries who are pushing for changes that you don't agree with.
I think you're nitpicking somewhat:
1/ You could equally argue that we shouldn't blame the respective countries when it's actually just a small number of political leaders rather than the consensus of the populous itself.
2/ And being a "democratic organisation" means that the UN's policies are agreed by the majority. Which also means that it's not just the reflections of a small number of member countries but actually the organisation's (the UN's) wider belief.
<devils advocate>
In fact given the UN is democratic and that most national-level decisions are not (even in democratic countries, we vote in our leaders, they choose the policies. So while we arguably have influence over the policies, those policies are not typically democratically chosen; baring a small number of fringe examples where referendums do happen). Thus you could argue that it's more fair to blame a democratic organisation for voting in policies than the independent nations who's population didn't.
</devils advocate>
However being more pragmatic: it makes greater sense to blame everyone under their organisations umbrella rather than blaming each and every nation individually; for such a list would be lengthy and counter productive.
1/ You could equally argue that we shouldn't blame the respective countries when it's actually just a small number of political leaders rather than the consensus of the populous itself.
2/ And being a "democratic organisation" means that the UN's policies are agreed by the majority. Which also means that it's not just the reflections of a small number of member countries but actually the organisation's (the UN's) wider belief.
<devils advocate>
In fact given the UN is democratic and that most national-level decisions are not (even in democratic countries, we vote in our leaders, they choose the policies. So while we arguably have influence over the policies, those policies are not typically democratically chosen; baring a small number of fringe examples where referendums do happen). Thus you could argue that it's more fair to blame a democratic organisation for voting in policies than the independent nations who's population didn't.
</devils advocate>
However being more pragmatic: it makes greater sense to blame everyone under their organisations umbrella rather than blaming each and every nation individually; for such a list would be lengthy and counter productive.
is a organization of countries democratic when most of the countries that are a member are very undemocratic in one way or the other?
Hope I am not being too nosy, but why were you in NK?
As a tourist? Lots of people go, it's a fascinating country.
I have a profound desire to travel there, but I'm not very good at lying or holding my tongue, so it's probably not a good idea.
Also, if you'll get all precious about bowing to the statue. The number of people who get weird about it astounds me. You'll get told in advance, before going, that you'll go to the big statue and you'll be expected to dress nice and bow. For some people, this is a ridiculously big deal.
Well, as a religious person, I admit I chafe at it, but I'm pretty sure I could fake my way through it. I'd be a lot more worried about accidentally running off my mouth.
"I'm pretty sure I could fake my way through it."
How would you fake bowing to the statue? Would you just sort of start to nod your head and then stop, and then ... well, no, I can't think of any way to fake bowing. You know you're not required to actually worship it, right? Just the bow. It's not like you're relinquishing your citizenship or making a formal statement in support of the government.
As for running off your mouth, seriously? You can't keep your mouth shut for a week? There were dozens of people on my tour group, split amongst three roving packs, and nobody had any trouble at all (including the religious amongst us, who managed to bow to the statue without experiencing a crisis of faith). Americans, Brits, Chinese, Chileans, Belgians, Singaporeans, Swiss, Germans, Australians, New Zealanders, people from all over the world, and nobody had any trouble shutting up.
How would you fake bowing to the statue? Would you just sort of start to nod your head and then stop, and then ... well, no, I can't think of any way to fake bowing. You know you're not required to actually worship it, right? Just the bow. It's not like you're relinquishing your citizenship or making a formal statement in support of the government.
As for running off your mouth, seriously? You can't keep your mouth shut for a week? There were dozens of people on my tour group, split amongst three roving packs, and nobody had any trouble at all (including the religious amongst us, who managed to bow to the statue without experiencing a crisis of faith). Americans, Brits, Chinese, Chileans, Belgians, Singaporeans, Swiss, Germans, Australians, New Zealanders, people from all over the world, and nobody had any trouble shutting up.
There's no need to be nasty.
What I mean is simply that though I object to the idea of bowing to a statue I could probably do it. Not that I could somehow fool them into thinking I had when I hadn't. I'm not that naive.
As for running off the mouth, I live with me all day. I have a pretty good idea what I can and cannot do. Your sample size of people who have gone to DPRK and had no trouble shutting up is both self-selected and not large--and they probably have better reasons to be there to boot. I would hope that people with my views and my trouble keeping them quiet would be smart enough not to go.
What I mean is simply that though I object to the idea of bowing to a statue I could probably do it. Not that I could somehow fool them into thinking I had when I hadn't. I'm not that naive.
As for running off the mouth, I live with me all day. I have a pretty good idea what I can and cannot do. Your sample size of people who have gone to DPRK and had no trouble shutting up is both self-selected and not large--and they probably have better reasons to be there to boot. I would hope that people with my views and my trouble keeping them quiet would be smart enough not to go.
Oh. I apologise. I must have been misled by the phrase "fake my way through it" when you actually meant "I'd do it". :)
If you did go, and did not shut up, the worst that would happen to you is a quick trip back to Beijing. As your Beijing-side guide would explain, the worst that could happen to your guide is a life (i.e. death) sentence in a labour camp, along with her family (including children), and any children born in the camp die there too. If you truly couldn't keep your mouth shut in such a situation, you definitely shouldn't go (and I don't believe it anyway - that'd be psychological-damage levels of lack of self-control, but because you haven't devolved into screaming abuse, you clearly do actually have enough self-control).
If you did go, and did not shut up, the worst that would happen to you is a quick trip back to Beijing. As your Beijing-side guide would explain, the worst that could happen to your guide is a life (i.e. death) sentence in a labour camp, along with her family (including children), and any children born in the camp die there too. If you truly couldn't keep your mouth shut in such a situation, you definitely shouldn't go (and I don't believe it anyway - that'd be psychological-damage levels of lack of self-control, but because you haven't devolved into screaming abuse, you clearly do actually have enough self-control).
"Also since there were no mobile phone towers around"
When I was there in April there were people on the streets in Pyongyang using mobile phones (I've got a picture showing it somewhere), so the towers must be there.
When I was there in April there were people on the streets in Pyongyang using mobile phones (I've got a picture showing it somewhere), so the towers must be there.
Could they have been faking it, to impress foreigners?
This article [1] tells the story of an entire department store that was faked to impress tourists. But that was 20 years ago, so maybe this time it isn't fake.
[1] http://blog.skepticaldoctor.com/2010/01/15/classic-dalrymple...
This article [1] tells the story of an entire department store that was faked to impress tourists. But that was 20 years ago, so maybe this time it isn't fake.
[1] http://blog.skepticaldoctor.com/2010/01/15/classic-dalrymple...
"Could they have been faking it, to impress foreigners?"
The BBC article linked to discusses the internal mobile phone network. Additionally, my guide would have had to also be faking the voice coming out of the phone and somehow getting information some other way and pretending to have received it on the phone. I'm going to go with actual genuine mobile phone network. :)
The BBC article linked to discusses the internal mobile phone network. Additionally, my guide would have had to also be faking the voice coming out of the phone and somehow getting information some other way and pretending to have received it on the phone. I'm going to go with actual genuine mobile phone network. :)
Why were you in North Korea? As a tourist?
North Korea is probably the most evil regime in the world. Going there as a tourist supports this regime and as such is profoundly immoral.
North Korea is probably the most evil regime in the world. Going there as a tourist supports this regime and as such is profoundly immoral.
I wouldn't go as far as saying visiting North Korea is "profoundly immoral". Would I consider North Korea dangerous to visit though? Yes. The country is still technically at war with South Korea, meaning at any given moment the two nations can dive right back into active combat, which has the potential to become an instant hostage situation for any traveler unlucky enough to be visiting North Korea at that time.
It's really not that dangerous considering the technicality of being at war has existed for decades. Nobody wants a war on the Korean peninsula (to the perennial disappointment of human rights activists):
1. China- prefers the buffer state between itself and US-aligned South Korea 2. South Korea- has seen what happened with Germany's economy after re-unification, fears that times 100 with the state of North Korea's population 3. North Korea- has absolutely no chance of defeating the South without Chinese intervention, which is unlikely to happen.
That combined with the mass destruction and slaughter on both sides of the DMZ which would occur makes all out war unlikely.
1. China- prefers the buffer state between itself and US-aligned South Korea 2. South Korea- has seen what happened with Germany's economy after re-unification, fears that times 100 with the state of North Korea's population 3. North Korea- has absolutely no chance of defeating the South without Chinese intervention, which is unlikely to happen.
That combined with the mass destruction and slaughter on both sides of the DMZ which would occur makes all out war unlikely.
I can appreciate this sentiment, and to some extent agree, but it strikes me as overly simplistic. The reality is probably more complicated. Just leaving them to their own devices, isolated, is arguably just as bad in terms of propping up the regime. The NK regime is built on control, particularly of information. Any sort of relations with the outside will inherently have something of a subversive nature.
What metric are you using to define evil?
If you consider one evil, for example, the number of state sponsored murders of foreign citizens, then NK is pretty far down the list. On the other hand, the supposed "free country" would be dead first.
Then isn't it profoundly immoral to visit the USA?
If you consider one evil, for example, the number of state sponsored murders of foreign citizens, then NK is pretty far down the list. On the other hand, the supposed "free country" would be dead first.
Then isn't it profoundly immoral to visit the USA?
I'm quite surprised that they appear to use a customised Linux distribution rather than build their own from scratch properly. If you look at the East Germany in the 1980s, the various "VEB" state industries were even chucking out 8086 and VAX clones with every component built in the Eastern Block and even cloned UNIX operating systems!
Couple of links to show the scale of their industry back then:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VEB_Robotron
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rob...