Geeks and privilege(tommorris.org)
tommorris.org
Geeks and privilege
http://tommorris.org/posts/2506?
7 comments
This comment just made my day, thank you.
Recently on a female subreddit, a woman wrote a huge rant about how if we want equality, we need to stop complaining about what we don't have. The idea being that complaining about it will just set us back further because people won't take us seriously. While I understand the sentiment, it backfires: awareness is the only way things are going to change. There are too many people that don't understand the day-to-day experiences of a[ny "minority"] to fully realize the extent of the differences in the ways we're treated both professionally and personally.
Even to say "no one cares about your gender here, we build things to prove ourselves" ignores that women are at a disadvantage in engineering to begin with. I'll cite again a local university professor that wrote adamantly that his natural expectations of the women in his courses were much lower and that he'd intentionally spend less time with them because they'd "likely drop out anyway". He stated that unless they came to him after class at some point, that he did not think they were serious about learning what he had to teach. Not only an ignorant way to view pupils, but an inappropriate way to approach education.
Recently on a female subreddit, a woman wrote a huge rant about how if we want equality, we need to stop complaining about what we don't have. The idea being that complaining about it will just set us back further because people won't take us seriously. While I understand the sentiment, it backfires: awareness is the only way things are going to change. There are too many people that don't understand the day-to-day experiences of a[ny "minority"] to fully realize the extent of the differences in the ways we're treated both professionally and personally.
Even to say "no one cares about your gender here, we build things to prove ourselves" ignores that women are at a disadvantage in engineering to begin with. I'll cite again a local university professor that wrote adamantly that his natural expectations of the women in his courses were much lower and that he'd intentionally spend less time with them because they'd "likely drop out anyway". He stated that unless they came to him after class at some point, that he did not think they were serious about learning what he had to teach. Not only an ignorant way to view pupils, but an inappropriate way to approach education.
You're simply wrong about gender in Western society today.
"As a man I never have to worry about going to the gas station at night because I might be raped."
From the Wikipedia article Gender and Crime:
"In 2004, males were almost 10 times more likely than females to commit murder. Men are also far more likely than women to be the victims of violent crime, with the exception of rape.[2]"
I'll assume that we're all non-murderers here, so the fact that a man is far more likely than a woman to commit murder has no bearing on whether it's harder to be a man or a woman. Murderers are a tiny percentage of the population, and men have to deal with them just as women do. (An analagous argument is that it doesn't matter that women are far more likely than men to ridicule or ostracize a woman for being promiscuous; women are still judged more harshly than men for sexually deviant behavior.) With that in mind, a man is far more likely than a woman to be the victim of a violent crime. If you're not at all worried about going to the gas station at night, that's probably because you live in a nice neighborhood, not because you're a man. You should probably be more worried than you are, and certainly you should be more worried than a woman should be. Muggings and random assaults are far more common than rape, and the perpetrators overwhelmingly choose to victimize men rather than women.
"As a man I never have to worry that someone might slip something into my drink at a bar and assault me."
Why would you think this? You could easily be approached by a beautiful woman, be given a slow-acting sedative, go back to her place thinking you're going to get lucky, and wake up with your clothes, watch, and wallet missing.
"As a man I never have to worry that on a date someone might not listen to me when I say no."
Don't be so sure. Your date wouldn't likely be able to overpower you, but there are other methods of coercion. (There are also weapons: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2194240/Angelina-Jol...) Or something even worse could happen: she could threaten to accuse you of rape unless you capitulated to some demand.
http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/s/2054510_jail_for_addict_w... http://justicevids.com/crazy-landlord-assaults-man-realizes-... (Warning: there are pornographic ads to the right of this video)
"As a man I've never had to worry about sexual advances from my boss costing me my job."
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. What happens when your female boss wants to sleep with you but you're not interested?
"Its insulting for a man, who is so clearly privileged in our society, to stand up and say not only is that wrong but that they have it worse than women. Its also blatantly uneducated."
Well, I'm finishing up my fourth history course right now, so I wouldn't say I'm uneducated. If you find my opinion insulting, that's your problem.
"In fact, when people post things like that here they're just reinforcing patriarchy."
Ah yes, "patriarchy", an unfalsifiable conspiracy theory that ignores all the evidence along with human nature. Please, tell me more.
"Things are changing and the role of women in our society is greatly improving, but its not equal."
You're right, it's not equal: women have had a clear advantage for some time now.
"To throw out the considerably fewer areas where men are on the short-side of things doesn't add up to some sort of equality."
A few areas, hmmm? Such as
- workplace injuries and fatalities - suicide rate - homeless rate - chance of being the victim of a violent crime - facing longer sentences for identical crimes - divorce and child custody - life expectancy - having to register for the draft to qualify for, e.g., federal student loans - having very little reproductive control compared to women - not being able to work with or enjoy the company of children without looking suspicious - blamed for everything negative that happened in human history but not given credit for the positives because men of the past allegedly oppressed women (a false allegation, by the way; everyone had a role in society and everyone's behavior was restricted not so much by other people but by circumstance)
"This behavior reinforces gender/racial inequalities by painting the people who have to live their lives facing them as "complainers."
I'm telling you that men face staggering inequality in many areas and you haven't even gone so far as to label me a "complainer"--you think I'm simply imagining it!
"As a man I never have to worry about going to the gas station at night because I might be raped."
From the Wikipedia article Gender and Crime:
"In 2004, males were almost 10 times more likely than females to commit murder. Men are also far more likely than women to be the victims of violent crime, with the exception of rape.[2]"
I'll assume that we're all non-murderers here, so the fact that a man is far more likely than a woman to commit murder has no bearing on whether it's harder to be a man or a woman. Murderers are a tiny percentage of the population, and men have to deal with them just as women do. (An analagous argument is that it doesn't matter that women are far more likely than men to ridicule or ostracize a woman for being promiscuous; women are still judged more harshly than men for sexually deviant behavior.) With that in mind, a man is far more likely than a woman to be the victim of a violent crime. If you're not at all worried about going to the gas station at night, that's probably because you live in a nice neighborhood, not because you're a man. You should probably be more worried than you are, and certainly you should be more worried than a woman should be. Muggings and random assaults are far more common than rape, and the perpetrators overwhelmingly choose to victimize men rather than women.
"As a man I never have to worry that someone might slip something into my drink at a bar and assault me."
Why would you think this? You could easily be approached by a beautiful woman, be given a slow-acting sedative, go back to her place thinking you're going to get lucky, and wake up with your clothes, watch, and wallet missing.
"As a man I never have to worry that on a date someone might not listen to me when I say no."
Don't be so sure. Your date wouldn't likely be able to overpower you, but there are other methods of coercion. (There are also weapons: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2194240/Angelina-Jol...) Or something even worse could happen: she could threaten to accuse you of rape unless you capitulated to some demand.
http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/s/2054510_jail_for_addict_w... http://justicevids.com/crazy-landlord-assaults-man-realizes-... (Warning: there are pornographic ads to the right of this video)
"As a man I've never had to worry about sexual advances from my boss costing me my job."
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. What happens when your female boss wants to sleep with you but you're not interested?
"Its insulting for a man, who is so clearly privileged in our society, to stand up and say not only is that wrong but that they have it worse than women. Its also blatantly uneducated."
Well, I'm finishing up my fourth history course right now, so I wouldn't say I'm uneducated. If you find my opinion insulting, that's your problem.
"In fact, when people post things like that here they're just reinforcing patriarchy."
Ah yes, "patriarchy", an unfalsifiable conspiracy theory that ignores all the evidence along with human nature. Please, tell me more.
"Things are changing and the role of women in our society is greatly improving, but its not equal."
You're right, it's not equal: women have had a clear advantage for some time now.
"To throw out the considerably fewer areas where men are on the short-side of things doesn't add up to some sort of equality."
A few areas, hmmm? Such as
- workplace injuries and fatalities - suicide rate - homeless rate - chance of being the victim of a violent crime - facing longer sentences for identical crimes - divorce and child custody - life expectancy - having to register for the draft to qualify for, e.g., federal student loans - having very little reproductive control compared to women - not being able to work with or enjoy the company of children without looking suspicious - blamed for everything negative that happened in human history but not given credit for the positives because men of the past allegedly oppressed women (a false allegation, by the way; everyone had a role in society and everyone's behavior was restricted not so much by other people but by circumstance)
"This behavior reinforces gender/racial inequalities by painting the people who have to live their lives facing them as "complainers."
I'm telling you that men face staggering inequality in many areas and you haven't even gone so far as to label me a "complainer"--you think I'm simply imagining it!
Privilege and luck permeate every part of everyones' lives. Parents are always trying hard to find a better place for their children to live, get them into a better school, give them a better start than they did. Why? Privilege. Privilege comes from being in a place that offers you, personally, the greatest opportunity flow. Training and discipline hopefully prepares you to take them. As Henry Hartman put it, “Success always comes when preparation meets opportunity”.
So it begs the question: If you're fighting so hard to obtain privilege through location, social group, contacts and training, why do you also rail so hard against it? Why do you feel guilt? Isn't it about being the best you can be?
And no, luck is not largely based on privilege. Luck is just as much a result of things going wrong as things going right (I'd even go so far as to argue more in favor of things going wrong). I wouldn't even be in software if I hadn't been running from debt so many years ago. I wouldn't be as strong as I am today had I not lost everything except the clothes on my back (Three times! You'd think I'd have learned my lesson to just keep my head down and follow orders!).
Everyone ought to have privileges? Sounds nice in theory, but that's never been the reality and it never will. The last attempt to fair-it-share-it went under the name of "communism", and that didn't turn out so well.
Look, life is unfair and arbitrary. We take steps to shield ourselves from the more egregious forms of entropy, but you're not going to isolate yourself completely. Every attempt to do so has failed and left people worse off than when they started.
So, take stock of your privilege, keep watch for opportunities to raise your position, and be prepared to fight tooth and nail if someone tries to push you down, because nobody cares about a whiner.
So it begs the question: If you're fighting so hard to obtain privilege through location, social group, contacts and training, why do you also rail so hard against it? Why do you feel guilt? Isn't it about being the best you can be?
And no, luck is not largely based on privilege. Luck is just as much a result of things going wrong as things going right (I'd even go so far as to argue more in favor of things going wrong). I wouldn't even be in software if I hadn't been running from debt so many years ago. I wouldn't be as strong as I am today had I not lost everything except the clothes on my back (Three times! You'd think I'd have learned my lesson to just keep my head down and follow orders!).
Everyone ought to have privileges? Sounds nice in theory, but that's never been the reality and it never will. The last attempt to fair-it-share-it went under the name of "communism", and that didn't turn out so well.
Look, life is unfair and arbitrary. We take steps to shield ourselves from the more egregious forms of entropy, but you're not going to isolate yourself completely. Every attempt to do so has failed and left people worse off than when they started.
So, take stock of your privilege, keep watch for opportunities to raise your position, and be prepared to fight tooth and nail if someone tries to push you down, because nobody cares about a whiner.
Geeks are primarily concerned with what you did, not with what advantages you had in doing it. Every second spent discussing privileged is a second not spent doing something. In the geek view, the time spent complaining would be better spent hacking, and every complaint just reinforces the 'otherness', justified or not, of the people that are doing the complaining.
I can see white privilege, but male privilege is pretty much a joke. Women have all the advantages, and even before the women's rights movement men were only given certain advantages because it was necessary for group survival. In the 21st century, being a woman is much easier than being a man.
As a man I never have to worry about going to the gas station at night because I might be raped. As a man I never have to worry that someone might slip something into my drink at a bar and assault me. As a man I never have to worry that on a date someone might not listen to me when I say no. As a man I've never had to worry about sexual advances from my boss costing me my job.
Its insulting for a man, who is so clearly privileged in our society, to stand up and say not only is that wrong but that they have it worse than women. Its also blatantly uneducated. For people who pride themselves on what they know, geeks tend to know almost nothing about class and gender equality in society.
In fact, when people post things like that here they're just reinforcing patriarchy. Things are changing and the role of women in our society is greatly improving, but its not equal. To throw out the considerably fewer areas where men are on the short-side of things doesn't add up to some sort of equality.
Worse yet are people who claim that any second spent discussing inequality is a second wasted. Of course someone from a privileged role would say that because it is not a constant attack of you every day. Its disgusting to suggest that people who are constantly minimized should have to just take it on the chin because it somehow offends your sensibilities.
This behavior reinforces gender/racial inequalities by painting the people who have to live their lives facing them as "complainers." As a community geeks need to grow up and recognize the inequalities of our society and find a way to make the technology world a safe space for all people.