Scientists Discover How Brains Keep Clean(wired.com)

94 pointsby a5seovor 14 Jahren24 comments

Scientists Discover How Brains Keep Clean

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/08/brain-waste-cleaning/

9 comments

iSnowvor 14 Jahren

Maybe I am completely off track, but you don't need radioactive marker molecules if you go for two-photon imaging, you need fluorescent markers.

Also, it is sad to see that even today, every publication in the neurobiology field has to mention Alzheimer's. It's about finding how the brain works, and if it is applicable to Alzheimer's, then great, but at the current state, this is a very long shot.

jacques_chestervor 14 Jahren

I think the connection is made to Alzheimers because ... there might be a connection.

Like they say right there in the article, one of the waste products is amyloid. Given amyloid buildup is pretty much what we consider Alzheimers to be, I don't see why it's ridiculous to pencil in an arrow here.

I mean if some people's bathtubs were overflowing and scientists had just discovered how drains work, don't you think it would be reasonable to speculate on a connection?

thundaravor 14 Jahren

It's also an extremely important medical condition to treat. If you show promise of a breakthrough in treating Alzheimer's, you can save hundreds of thousands of minds every single year. With the upcoming wave of elderly in the US, the cost of untreated Alzheimer's is predicted to skyrocket.

jacques_chestervor 14 Jahren

In fairness to iSnow, I'm not a disinterested observer. I have skin in this game.

thundaravor 14 Jahren

Last I checked, it wasn't clear whether the amyloid plaque buildup was a cause or side effect of Alzheimer's. Has the understanding of this changed in the past four years?

jacques_chestervor 14 Jahren

My understanding is that it's the "cause", insofar as plaque buildup interferes with the normal operation of brain cells.

Of course, I am neither a neuroscientist nor a neurologist.

iSnowvor 14 Jahren

>I mean if some people's bathtubs were overflowing and scientists had just discovered how drains work, don't you think it would be reasonable to speculate on a connection? True, but 1) I have worked in the field 15 years ago and we made a connection with Alzheimer's in every grant proposal because the disease was (is?) badly understood and is really scary. We never even cared about the possibility of whether our research indeed could be applied to A., but it was a great way to get funded

2) Brains lacking those channels have a lower amyloid clearing rate. Alzheimer's brains have a higher rate of amyloid. There is no reason to believe that the first leads to the second.

3) Brains are no bathtubs. Seriously.

This is interesting research on its own, no need to spice it up by the default A. reference.

locopativor 14 Jahren

Is it spicing it up or is it making science relevant for people who might not otherwise be interested? Someone who knows someone with Alzheimer's may take more interest - that's not a bad thing.

egeozcanvor 14 Jahren

I've seen the title and the first idea I had was "oh well it must be the most optimized garbage collector, ever". It's not weird to think that, right?

firefoxman1vor 14 Jahren

Could this be why vasodilators like vimpocetine improve mental performance? Maybe it's half about getting more nutrients to the brain and half improving the garbage collector?

itmagvor 14 Jahren

Do you have personal experience with nootropics? :)

crussovor 14 Jahren

Nootropics. Great word to google. Given the importance of the brain in human endeavors, it's astounding that we're still flailing around trying to figure out how it works.

If we attacked issues with the brain like we attacked problems of getting to Mars, we could be much better prepared as a society to reach further heights.

firefoxman1vor 14 Jahren

Yeah, I've been trying several different types for the past 6 months or so.

itmagvor 14 Jahren

Please email me.

stretchwithmevor 14 Jahren

I would not be surprised if exercise accelerated the brain's waste removal.

jaekwonvor 14 Jahren

Water channels around blood vessels... looks like the channels might be powered by heartbeats as well.

nodatavor 14 Jahren

Interesting. So how does this affect people who have non-beating pacemakers?

jaekwonvor 14 Jahren

good question

splicervor 14 Jahren

I'm going to go drink another glass of water...

jacques_chestervor 14 Jahren

Looks like an exciting new avenue of research.

nackervor 14 Jahren

To me, this article boiled down to two sentences: "Cerebrospinal fluid flowed along the outside of blood vessels, carried through a network of pipe-like protein structures. The fluid picked up waste that accumulated between cells, then drained out through major veins."

Unfortunately, it didn't deal with intracellular waste, which is a major issue over a lifetime. The only known way of addressing that is through caloric restriction. Some links:

http://www.hyperink.com/Fasting-For-Cleansing-Autophagy-b274...

http://www.pittsburghpatrika.com/2012/06/fasting-is-good-for...

http://www.nature.com/cdd/journal/v12/n2s/fig_tab/4401728ft....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2670399/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16874025

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0969996109...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2670399/

Bottom line, there is NO FREE LUNCH!

ericxbvor 14 Jahren

Consuming trehalose (a sugar) may also help.

http://metamodern.com/2010/09/15/trehalose-autophagy-and-bra...

theszvor 14 Jahren

So does intermittent fasting: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/fasting-brain-function/#axzz2...

I mention that because I hate calorie restriction.

somedaymevor 14 Jahren

I don't know about you, but my brain is totally dirty.