Zimbabwe introduces new $50 billion note(cnn.com)
cnn.com
Zimbabwe introduces new $50 billion note
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/01/10/zimbawe.currency/index.html
66 comments
It's amazing how thoroughly has been completely destroyed in the last decade. What I think most first-world readers miss is that Zimbabwe is not one of those (previously) ultra-poor, undeveloped countries -- it's had a frighteningly long fall to get to where it is now.
Yeah, it used to be considered a model African country, with the highest increases in standard of living year/year of any country in the world.
Robert Mugabe destroyed Zimbabwe.
Wikipedia has some really excellent further reading on Mugabe and Zimbabwe:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Zimbabwe
Robert Mugabe destroyed Zimbabwe.
Wikipedia has some really excellent further reading on Mugabe and Zimbabwe:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Zimbabwe
IIRC, before Land Reform Zimbabwe was the only African country with a net surplus of food. Zim used to be called the bread basket of Africa.
Putting aside the ideology of Land Reform (that's a whole other minefield of a topic), the execution and economic policies have been woeful.
Another post quoted one issue which was that large tracts of land were broken up, which broke economies of scale. However, it was flawed in a lot of other ways.
The original owners of the land were highly captialised. The people receiving the land often had no experience in cultivation, and even if they did, they had zero capital. They couldn't buy seed, machinery, expertise. The money and expertise required to turn this around pretty much fled the country.
So large farms that produced vast quantities got broken up into small farms that produce almost nothing.
At one stage Zim was in talks with China to have Chinese workers come over and work the land. I don't think that ever came to be, but China is a big player in Zimbabwe still - a lot of tourism, aid, weapons and immigration (several million?) comes from China.
Putting aside the ideology of Land Reform (that's a whole other minefield of a topic), the execution and economic policies have been woeful.
Another post quoted one issue which was that large tracts of land were broken up, which broke economies of scale. However, it was flawed in a lot of other ways.
The original owners of the land were highly captialised. The people receiving the land often had no experience in cultivation, and even if they did, they had zero capital. They couldn't buy seed, machinery, expertise. The money and expertise required to turn this around pretty much fled the country.
So large farms that produced vast quantities got broken up into small farms that produce almost nothing.
At one stage Zim was in talks with China to have Chinese workers come over and work the land. I don't think that ever came to be, but China is a big player in Zimbabwe still - a lot of tourism, aid, weapons and immigration (several million?) comes from China.
From what I've heard the land distribution was even worse than that -- farms were more often than not given to party hacks rather than poor farmers.
The problem seems to largely have been that the land reform wasn't actually an act for social justice so much as a populist political move. Egypt's attempt at land reform seemed much better planned:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_land_reform#Law_Number...
The problem seems to largely have been that the land reform wasn't actually an act for social justice so much as a populist political move. Egypt's attempt at land reform seemed much better planned:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_land_reform#Law_Number...
Interesting - I hadn't know about that before.
Agreed on your other points. I don't know the politics of the Egyptian reform, but colonialism still turns this in to a very complex set of issue. Especially when you try and distinguish between social justice and populist politics.
Again, if I recall correctly, in the early days of the land reform the UK pledged funds to allow property to be bought back from land owners. I think they even contributed GBP50 million or something (drop in the ocean admittedly), but the rest of the plan was eventually knocked back.
Agreed on your other points. I don't know the politics of the Egyptian reform, but colonialism still turns this in to a very complex set of issue. Especially when you try and distinguish between social justice and populist politics.
Again, if I recall correctly, in the early days of the land reform the UK pledged funds to allow property to be bought back from land owners. I think they even contributed GBP50 million or something (drop in the ocean admittedly), but the rest of the plan was eventually knocked back.
> The original owners of the land were highly captialised.
Err... not to dispute the rest of what you say, which is accurate, but the original owners? I realize you can play that game a long way back in history, but still...
Err... not to dispute the rest of what you say, which is accurate, but the original owners? I realize you can play that game a long way back in history, but still...
Getting rid of Mugabe and reinstating private property rights would go a long way in the right direction.
It'd be a start, but sadly just that. That's what's truly sad. The economic destruction has been so thorough, the wave of emigration away so massive, that Zimbabwe will need a generation or two to recover.
I get the impression a lot of the emigration is pretty permanent. Which means they may never recover, in the sense of recovering the lead they formerly held over other countries in the region.
Hyperinflation is caused by external countries refusing to invest in a countries currency, not by internal factors. So the current problem with money they are having is controlled by external entities.
Mars has never invested in Earth currency. Therefore, and because of that, the Earth economy must have continuously experienced hyperinflation.
The earth economy is closed, and is not dependent on external planets. The Zimbabwe economy, like all African economies, is strongly dependent on imports of manufactured and industrial goods.
If you actually have an argument and you understand the facts of what you want to argue, then please lay out your points. A silly non-relevant statement does not contribute to the discussion in any way.
If you actually have an argument and you understand the facts of what you want to argue, then please lay out your points. A silly non-relevant statement does not contribute to the discussion in any way.
I don't think that's correct, but I'll give you chance to post some citations backing that up.
Hyperinflation is caused by a loss of confidence in the ability to exchange the local currency for foreign currencies. The Zimbabwe $ became difficult to change following the land reform exercise, and that started the cycle. Once the cycle starts, it's very difficult to stop.
All this has almost nothing to do with the actual economy of the country - many countries have fallen into much worse economic times than Zimbabwe currently is in, and did not have the problem with hyperinflation.
In actuality, Zimbabwe belongs to the top African countries in terms of infrastructure, education and production. It still does so, but it's currently under a lot of economic pressure from outside countries, and one of the effects is this hyper-inflation.
All this has almost nothing to do with the actual economy of the country - many countries have fallen into much worse economic times than Zimbabwe currently is in, and did not have the problem with hyperinflation.
In actuality, Zimbabwe belongs to the top African countries in terms of infrastructure, education and production. It still does so, but it's currently under a lot of economic pressure from outside countries, and one of the effects is this hyper-inflation.
Zimbabwe belongs to the top African countries in terms of [...] education
Zimbabwe does not seem to be listed in the recent TIMSS data. http://nces.ed.gov/timss/table07_3.asp Where are you getting your information from?
This TIMSS page shows 1992 reading-score data for 14-year-olds for Nigeria (401), Zimbabwe (372), and Botawana (330):
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d96/d96t402.asp
Zimbabwe does not seem to be listed in the recent TIMSS data. http://nces.ed.gov/timss/table07_3.asp Where are you getting your information from?
This TIMSS page shows 1992 reading-score data for 14-year-olds for Nigeria (401), Zimbabwe (372), and Botawana (330):
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d96/d96t402.asp
From the Wikipedia page on Zim: "Zimbabwe has an adult literacy rate of approximately 90% which is amongst the highest in the world."
Bob Mugabe may have his faults, but he also took Zimbabwe really far.
Bob Mugabe may have his faults, but he also took Zimbabwe really far.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_r...
Because definitions and data collection methods vary across countries, literacy estimates should be used with caution.
Because definitions and data collection methods vary across countries, literacy estimates should be used with caution.
That does not mean that Zimbabwe does not have a very high literacy rate - it is well known that it does because of the government policy towards education.
Compared to the rest of Africa, the Mugabe government has been pretty good, and it was generally praised a lot till the land redistribution exercise started, after which the media portrayal suddenly swung the other way.
Many people who are aware of Zimbabwe only studied the country post 2001, and those that did have their information sources mostly from sensationalist U.S or U.K based papers. They do not attempt to balance their understanding by reading alternative points of views.
Compared to the rest of Africa, the Mugabe government has been pretty good, and it was generally praised a lot till the land redistribution exercise started, after which the media portrayal suddenly swung the other way.
Many people who are aware of Zimbabwe only studied the country post 2001, and those that did have their information sources mostly from sensationalist U.S or U.K based papers. They do not attempt to balance their understanding by reading alternative points of views.
Mugabe wasn't horrible, and that's what's sad about all of this -- the land reform was a populist grab that was initiated when he started losing his grasp on the country. He's shown over and again that he's willing to put his position above the interests of the country in the last few years, and that's what'll make him go down in history as a despot rather than a hero.
I've got quite a few friends in Zim and spent a few weeks there a bit back. All of the friends that I visited that are under 35 have now left, mostly to South Africa and a few to Botswana. More than a third of Zimbabwe's population has left the country in the last few years. That's far above par for brain-drain.
The coverage in the west is biased, but the fact that people were voting for the MDC, under fear of persecution, which nobody I talked to a year and a half ago when I was there even took seriously, says a lot.
Some of the inflation has been due to external influences, but it's also true that the Zanu-PF leadership let the countries agriculture and industry fall apart. That there's no food now in Zim is nutty.
I've got quite a few friends in Zim and spent a few weeks there a bit back. All of the friends that I visited that are under 35 have now left, mostly to South Africa and a few to Botswana. More than a third of Zimbabwe's population has left the country in the last few years. That's far above par for brain-drain.
The coverage in the west is biased, but the fact that people were voting for the MDC, under fear of persecution, which nobody I talked to a year and a half ago when I was there even took seriously, says a lot.
Some of the inflation has been due to external influences, but it's also true that the Zanu-PF leadership let the countries agriculture and industry fall apart. That there's no food now in Zim is nutty.
Zimbabwe does [...] have a very high literacy rate - it is well known that it does because of the government policy towards education.
Government policy does not corellate at unity with outcome. There are other factors.
Would you agree that there is probably a siginificant brain drain occurring right now in Zimbabwe?
http://news.google.com/news?q=zimbabwe+%22brain+drain%22
Would a brain drain likely affect the literacy level of a nation?
Government policy does not corellate at unity with outcome. There are other factors.
Would you agree that there is probably a siginificant brain drain occurring right now in Zimbabwe?
http://news.google.com/news?q=zimbabwe+%22brain+drain%22
Would a brain drain likely affect the literacy level of a nation?
I don't think the brain drain from Zimbabwe is any larger than any other African country, or any country that were facing similarly tough economic times.
The farm seizures affected less than 3000 farm owners, and those people typically did not employ highly skilled labour, so the effect that had was not so significant on emigration of university-level people.
I'm not sure what exactly your point is - are you saying that farm seizures in some way affected the level of education in the country?
The farm seizures affected less than 3000 farm owners, and those people typically did not employ highly skilled labour, so the effect that had was not so significant on emigration of university-level people.
I'm not sure what exactly your point is - are you saying that farm seizures in some way affected the level of education in the country?
Zimbabwe is number one in percentage of total unemployed who have secondary education (85%).
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lab_une_wit_sec_edu_mal_of...
The brains have reason to drain.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/lab_une_wit_sec_edu_mal_of...
The brains have reason to drain.
That could also be because among countries of similar economic status, it has the highest number of secondary educated job searchers.
are you saying that farm seizures in some way affected the level of education in the country?
Yes, if you mean the real attained education levels, rather than simply credential levels.
Yes, if you mean the real attained education levels, rather than simply credential levels.
Of 3000 people when the entire population is over 20 million?
How can an economy survive with such an inflation? How can you work, knowing that the salary you agreed to at the beginning of the day, is now worth 10 times less
At 80% unemployment, I guess they don't.
Salary is in foreign currency. As everything else.
I'd imagine a sort of barter system takes the place of the currency. You could also try to rely on foreign currencies.
They actively crack down on those using foreign currency, it's actually illegal to use foreign currency for transactions there - although of course everyone does and there is a massive black market for this.
Mugabe also tried to fix the price of common goods - e.g. Bread, Milk, etc.
Mugabe also tried to fix the price of common goods - e.g. Bread, Milk, etc.
Edit: Hmm - Apparently this has changed and they allow foreign currency trading now.
Hello, gold. Mugabe can't inflate it unless he's a real alchemist. I wonder if the US could get into this sort of situation?
Gold is somewhat impractical. Having access to a lot of foreign currencies (on the black market, if necessary) is a substitute.
In August last year, the RBZ slashed ten zeros from the currency. But the zeroes have bounced back with more vigor.
That means in before August 2008 these would have been 500,000,000,000,000,000,000 notes. Yikes.
That means in before August 2008 these would have been 500,000,000,000,000,000,000 notes. Yikes.
When will they start using scientific notation on the notes? I'd invest a few dollars at whatever exchange rate just to get a hold of some $10^23 notes.
That'd be just about a mole of currency. Yikes.
It would be simpler just to switch to a log scale.
The tragedy of Zimbabwe is that a functioning, wealth-creating capitalist system that was evolving towards equal rights for blacks over time was sacrificed to satisfy the ego of a strong man, who proceeded to wipe out every trace of capitalism and rule of law, and replaced it with the law of the jungle. Zimbabwe's whites mostly left, so it is the black population that paid the biggest most terrible price. Naipaul has chronicled this process in his books very well.
As a member of an once "inferior" race, I can state with confidence that we were not inferior, we were just behind in adopting the institutions and cultural patterns of modernity. The whites were teaching us that - by example that we could watch and emulate every day. A gradual process of assimilating those values would have served us well. Kicking the whites out took that opportunity away.
Yes, none of this politically correct. That doesn't make any of it wrong either. Yes, there are white racists. Fuck them - they could not have stopped us from learning. Only we could have, and we did.
As a member of an once "inferior" race, I can state with confidence that we were not inferior, we were just behind in adopting the institutions and cultural patterns of modernity. The whites were teaching us that - by example that we could watch and emulate every day. A gradual process of assimilating those values would have served us well. Kicking the whites out took that opportunity away.
Yes, none of this politically correct. That doesn't make any of it wrong either. Yes, there are white racists. Fuck them - they could not have stopped us from learning. Only we could have, and we did.
Are you sure you are not white? Or at least,...antipc?
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=411138
And you and I both know who he really is, don't we, longtimer?
[EDIT: Rechecked your facebook page. Yep, still white.]
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=411138
And you and I both know who he really is, don't we, longtimer?
[EDIT: Rechecked your facebook page. Yep, still white.]
The interesting thing is that there is probably considerable potential for the population of Zimbabwe to earn foreign hard currency by selling bank notes of this kind of denomination (for example, on eBay, if possible) simply because so many Westerners would find it incredibly novel to obtain one, just for the sheer amazement factor.
It's an economic opportunity to take advantage of just how bewildering the situation is.
It's an economic opportunity to take advantage of just how bewildering the situation is.
How long until they have a trillion dollar bill like the one Castro stole from Homer?
[deleted]
Damn, just when I bought the $25 billion of eBay.
You can already see discontinued $100 billion notes for sale on ebay... 10 for $40
man, my site is totally worthless now
http://www.millionzimbabwedollarhomepage.com
http://preview.tinyurl.com/ebay-100B
There seems to be $100B note. What am I missing?
There seems to be $100B note. What am I missing?
What a strange attempt to solve their problems. Maybe there is something wrong with your system if you can't print money fast enough to keep up with inflation.
[deleted]
Read it very carefully. This is USA in the future. 800 bilion bail-out - printed, over 1 trillion budget deficit - printed, another 800 billion bail out - printed. Only 5% of all the US dollars ever created is in circulation in the US. Rest of them are deposited in banks of the rest of the world as I.O.U.s... treasuries (us gov debt) that was bought by foreigners. The very moment foreigners realize that Treasuries have negative R.O.I. - as it will become true once treasuries bubble bursts and Fed starts printing to pay them off... well, this is how the whole Communistic Block collapsed in matter of months - hyperinflation due to inability of repaying debts. The exactly same thing will happen with the USA. Nation with no production, no savings and the biggest debt in the history of the man-kind... this country is going bankrupt. Kaput!
[deleted]
Zimbabwe (British-relative) national IQ: 66
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_IQ#National_IQ_and_QHC...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_IQ#National_IQ_and_QHC...
Zimbabwe president: Robert Mugabe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe
I'm pretty sure their government has much more to do with the hyperinflation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mugabe
I'm pretty sure their government has much more to do with the hyperinflation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man
Not really a theory in the best repute.
Not really a theory in the best repute.
I'm pretty sure their government has ... to do with the hyperinflation.
Indeed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform_in_Zimbabwe
Land reform in Zimbabwe began after the signing of the Lancaster House Agreement in 1979 in an effort to more equitably distribute land between ... blacks and the minority-whites who ruled Zimbabwe from 1923 to 1979.
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform_in_Zimbabwe#Economi...
The results of the post-2000 land reform have been disastrous for the economy of Zimbabwe. Prior to land redistribution, land-owning farmers, mostly white, had large tracts of land and utilized economies of scale to raise capital, borrow money when necessary, and purchase modern mechanised farm equipment to increase productivity on their land. The reforms broke this land into smaller tracts (thereby destroying the economies of scale) and gave it to former black farmworkers and peasants
Indeed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform_in_Zimbabwe
Land reform in Zimbabwe began after the signing of the Lancaster House Agreement in 1979 in an effort to more equitably distribute land between ... blacks and the minority-whites who ruled Zimbabwe from 1923 to 1979.
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_reform_in_Zimbabwe#Economi...
The results of the post-2000 land reform have been disastrous for the economy of Zimbabwe. Prior to land redistribution, land-owning farmers, mostly white, had large tracts of land and utilized economies of scale to raise capital, borrow money when necessary, and purchase modern mechanised farm equipment to increase productivity on their land. The reforms broke this land into smaller tracts (thereby destroying the economies of scale) and gave it to former black farmworkers and peasants
That tells you more about the inadequacy and bias of the IQ system in measuring and representing intelligence, than it tells you about African people.
I might be feeding a troll here(2 day old account - http://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=opticksversi ) but IQ is more a measure of a nations current economic development than something inherent in the population. See the Flynn Effect - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
You are feeding a troll, a deaded account whose link style, phrasing, and thoughtprints betray him, however:
http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=DabAsteroid
http://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=DabAsteroid
IQ is more a measure of a nations current economic development than something inherent in the population.
If that were the case, what would explain the outliers -- high-IQ nations that are poor, and low-IQ nations that are rich?
If that were the case, what would explain the outliers -- high-IQ nations that are poor, and low-IQ nations that are rich?
"what would explain the outliers"
Precisely that, they're outliers. There's fully grown human beings that weigh 60lbs and ones that weigh almost 1000, it's not normal it just exists because there's 6 billion of us on the planet.
There's hundreds of countries, so obviously not every single one will follow due to statistics.
Precisely that, they're outliers. There's fully grown human beings that weigh 60lbs and ones that weigh almost 1000, it's not normal it just exists because there's 6 billion of us on the planet.
There's hundreds of countries, so obviously not every single one will follow due to statistics.
the inadequacy and bias of the IQ system in measuring and representing intelligence
Why do you believe there is inadequacy and bias in mental ability testing (the IQ system, as you put it)? Have you read this Citation Classic on the subject?:
http://www.amazon.com/Bias-Mental-Testing-Arthur-Jensen/dp/0...
Why do you believe there is inadequacy and bias in mental ability testing (the IQ system, as you put it)? Have you read this Citation Classic on the subject?:
http://www.amazon.com/Bias-Mental-Testing-Arthur-Jensen/dp/0...
It wasn't that long ago (1970s) where inflation in US was 10-15%. Our population has short memories, and we seem doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past (vast government spending relative to revenue).