Hospitals gave patients meds during childbirth, then reported them for drug use(themarshallproject.org)
themarshallproject.org
Hospitals gave patients meds during childbirth, then reported them for drug use
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2024/12/11/pregnant-hospital-drug-test-medicine
13 comments
Inexplicably no discussion, but popular yesterday (44 points) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42404691
I submitted it yesterday, saw the current thread on the front page. Almost celebrated my first post making it there, but alas, it wasn’t mine.
This happens a lot and for some reason it always stings.
And then someone flagged it apparently as a dupe. smh.
If you sued for mental damage the state for such a thing, would you be able to win?
It says a child was taken from the mum for 5 months, that's an impossible damage, literally to get back to something similar you need another child + 9 months + all the costs associated to having 2 children (and career progression loss).
It says a child was taken from the mum for 5 months, that's an impossible damage, literally to get back to something similar you need another child + 9 months + all the costs associated to having 2 children (and career progression loss).
I feel like most such suits would crash on the shores of immunity doctrines and balancing tests. It's absolutely life-altering and probably lifelong - I don't see any way that such a child wouldn't develop attachment/trust disorders. But any judges who assign responsibility to transparently will be denounced as 'judicial activists'.
Dum dum dum dumb.
Classic "not my problem" case in health care. Clinician 1 gives a typical medication to patient, then their shift ends and they go home. Hours or days later, clinician 2 administers a drug test as part of standard process, then their shift ends and they go home. Clinician 3 then reviews this positive test result and reports it to authorities as part of a mandatory reporting program. Nobody acts as a patient advocate and reviews the full case file. Everyone just does their one transactional piece and forgets the entire history ten seconds later in favor of doing another transactional thing for another patient.
Classic "not my problem" case in health care. Clinician 1 gives a typical medication to patient, then their shift ends and they go home. Hours or days later, clinician 2 administers a drug test as part of standard process, then their shift ends and they go home. Clinician 3 then reviews this positive test result and reports it to authorities as part of a mandatory reporting program. Nobody acts as a patient advocate and reviews the full case file. Everyone just does their one transactional piece and forgets the entire history ten seconds later in favor of doing another transactional thing for another patient.
It feels like today, mothers face increasing danger going into hospitals. The medical professionals have so much power and control over you when you're there, and one mistake can kill you or ruin your life. There really needs to be greater patient protections.
A case study in the banality of evil sadly. Also a perfect example of why care and enforcemrnt should never be mixed, both for its immediate effects and the lasting distrust it will eventually cause.
The state government has too much power to define what a mother can or can't do. It doesn't deserve such power. Using it correctly or not is a whole other consideration.
[deleted]
It's recommended to avoid poppy seeds during the last few months of pregnancy to avoid false positives.
Is it normal to give morphine to mothers during childbirth? That seems crazy to me.
Opioids are often given during and after childbirth. Childbirth is incredible, but also hugely painful for some people.
And the different types of labor pain can be treated by different techniques or medications.
Why would it be crazy?
And the different types of labor pain can be treated by different techniques or medications.
Why would it be crazy?
Because it shows up in the baby's meconium...
That doesn't even get into the second order effects such as mothers then having trouble lactating/nursing.
And beyond that, we should probably question why, statistically, the mothers that have the most children don't use painkillers during childbirth.
> the mothers that have the most children don't use painkillers during childbirth
Maybe because those who have painful births are unlikely to want to go through it again?
That seems The obvious guess. It could definitely be wrong but unless research shows otherwise there doesn’t appear to be an a priori reason to avoid painkillers barring further research.
Maybe because those who have painful births are unlikely to want to go through it again?
That seems The obvious guess. It could definitely be wrong but unless research shows otherwise there doesn’t appear to be an a priori reason to avoid painkillers barring further research.
[deleted]
So? Are you worried that baby is going to go out and try to score baby heroin? You have to point to some actual negative outcome beyond "the drugs we gave were present".
Why don't mothers with the most children use painkillers?
Having children fundamentally alters your body, making future births easier, generally. The people with the most children tend to be poorerto, and might not be able to afford painkillers. The people with the most children might be religious families who treat women as machines for producing children. Maybe about a million hypotheses.
But we should be studying it! You are right about that. Our health care system under studies the experiences of women.
Why don't mothers with the most children use painkillers?
Having children fundamentally alters your body, making future births easier, generally. The people with the most children tend to be poorerto, and might not be able to afford painkillers. The people with the most children might be religious families who treat women as machines for producing children. Maybe about a million hypotheses.
But we should be studying it! You are right about that. Our health care system under studies the experiences of women.
oh ffs please stop treating every situation like its a binary situation.
EVERYONE has different experiences and issues. some need surgery, some have a 30 min labour and its almost like a luge.
The answer here is not "every one should just suck it up like they used to" its "every situation should be treated based on the data and facts of scientific theory, and adjusted to deal with the different environmental variables"
Yes its more complicated, but the world and the lived experience of it is not black and white.
EVERYONE has different experiences and issues. some need surgery, some have a 30 min labour and its almost like a luge.
The answer here is not "every one should just suck it up like they used to" its "every situation should be treated based on the data and facts of scientific theory, and adjusted to deal with the different environmental variables"
Yes its more complicated, but the world and the lived experience of it is not black and white.
Childbirth can be natural or cesarean. The latter is functionally akin to a major abdominal surgery. Pain meds are normal after that.
Both are akin to major surgery.
Most of the time, yes:
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/epidural-anesthesia
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/epidural-anesthesia
Are you familiar with epidurals? Generally they give morphine or fentanyl through the epidural.
I wasn’t aware that epidurals were opioid-based. That explains things.
So dystopian.
hilbert42(1)
And as the article mentions, the outlawing of abortion in some states has accelerated these problems.