The missing link: Microsoft Surface(extremetech.com)
extremetech.com
The missing link: Microsoft Surface
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/131338-the-missing-link-microsoft-surface
9 comments
There sure are a lot of articles being written about something which has some fundamental questions about it which have so far remain unanswered, specifically, price and when it is scheduled to go on sale.
In some aspects, this announcement was strikingly similar to RIM's Playbook announcement: reviewers were unable to play with it, price was an open question, and it was still months away from market.
In some aspects, this announcement was strikingly similar to RIM's Playbook announcement: reviewers were unable to play with it, price was an open question, and it was still months away from market.
I wouldn't compare this with the PlayBook, but it was clear that the device is NOT ready.
Our Deputy Editor was at the event and he described it as the most "controlled demo experience"[1] he's ever had -- and Chris has been at this since the late 1990s. That didn't surprise me at all because any time you spend most of your presentation talking about the engineering of the Touch Cover (which does look incredible) and not the apps, the battery life or the timeline, it's not ready.
I think this has potential -- especially at the Surface running Windows Pro level -- but it was curious to see them announce it SO early, when it's clear the device isn't ready in any way.
My gut tells me that the RT version will start at $500 and the Pro version will start at $1000. Knowing Microsoft, I've got to think they are aggressively aiming for a November release date for the first version and a February or March for the Pro. I don't think it's likely it will appear before then.
My bigger question is what specific APIs are they going to unveil to Windows 8 developers that take advantage of the Surface devices -- and will there be Surface-specific apps that won't work with the other Windows 8 tablets. As I wrote late last night, I expect that within a year of this thing's release, we won't see any other consumer-facing Windows 8 tablets on the market.
That to me is actually the most interesting part of this whole thing. Microsoft has taken Apple's approach to fully integrating the hardware (I don't think this is their version of the Nexus line of devices...I think they've created what they want to be THE Windows 8 tablet experience, not simply a flagship example).
[1]: http://mashable.com/2012/06/18/hands-on-with-microsofts-tabl...
Our Deputy Editor was at the event and he described it as the most "controlled demo experience"[1] he's ever had -- and Chris has been at this since the late 1990s. That didn't surprise me at all because any time you spend most of your presentation talking about the engineering of the Touch Cover (which does look incredible) and not the apps, the battery life or the timeline, it's not ready.
I think this has potential -- especially at the Surface running Windows Pro level -- but it was curious to see them announce it SO early, when it's clear the device isn't ready in any way.
My gut tells me that the RT version will start at $500 and the Pro version will start at $1000. Knowing Microsoft, I've got to think they are aggressively aiming for a November release date for the first version and a February or March for the Pro. I don't think it's likely it will appear before then.
My bigger question is what specific APIs are they going to unveil to Windows 8 developers that take advantage of the Surface devices -- and will there be Surface-specific apps that won't work with the other Windows 8 tablets. As I wrote late last night, I expect that within a year of this thing's release, we won't see any other consumer-facing Windows 8 tablets on the market.
That to me is actually the most interesting part of this whole thing. Microsoft has taken Apple's approach to fully integrating the hardware (I don't think this is their version of the Nexus line of devices...I think they've created what they want to be THE Windows 8 tablet experience, not simply a flagship example).
[1]: http://mashable.com/2012/06/18/hands-on-with-microsofts-tabl...
Why would there be Surface-only apps? It just runs Windows RT/8. And why would there not be any other Windows 8 tablets?
Well, if you're Lenovo and you're already struggling to keep margins in check with Windows RT (and you have to pay an $85 licensing fee for the software) and you're unsure of the consumer demand for a Windows 8 tablet, do you still go gangbusters after an unproven product segment when you have a huge competitor that is showing off a flagship version of the Windows 8 tablet experience?
I don't have the answer to that.
As for APIs, it doesn't seem impossible to think that there might be apps that take advantage of the Pen technology in the Intel version of Surface or the Touch Cover and Type Covers and that those APIs might only apply to the Surface devices. I really don't know. That's my point.
I don't have the answer to that.
As for APIs, it doesn't seem impossible to think that there might be apps that take advantage of the Pen technology in the Intel version of Surface or the Touch Cover and Type Covers and that those APIs might only apply to the Surface devices. I really don't know. That's my point.
Lenovo sells 4 or 5 tablets today, why in the world would they not include Windows 8 in their lineup next year. Lenovo is a computer company, they have to sell computers or they don't have a business.
It's funny that nobody is questioning the value of the kickstand/keyboard. They've optimized a lean back device for a lean forward experience. Do you see people using their tablets at their desk or table? These are couch and bedstand devices (where at least the kickstand will serve some use).
And optimizing a tablet around landscape mode (thanks to using the tv standard 16:9 aspect ratio, which is awkward in portrait) is a blunder . It's one of those Apple advantages that sits in plain sight and Apple barely acknowledges, while they happily watch their competitors miss the point entirely. That 4:3 aspect ratio gives the iPhone it's killer app - it makes every website feel like a magazine. I think it's part of why Android tablets are largely failing - landscape is unappealing on a small screen.
These factors combined with its late release date (probably in the shadow of a new iPhone) and lack of Retina display, I don't see this being successful with consumers.
And optimizing a tablet around landscape mode (thanks to using the tv standard 16:9 aspect ratio, which is awkward in portrait) is a blunder . It's one of those Apple advantages that sits in plain sight and Apple barely acknowledges, while they happily watch their competitors miss the point entirely. That 4:3 aspect ratio gives the iPhone it's killer app - it makes every website feel like a magazine. I think it's part of why Android tablets are largely failing - landscape is unappealing on a small screen.
These factors combined with its late release date (probably in the shadow of a new iPhone) and lack of Retina display, I don't see this being successful with consumers.
> Do you see people using their tablets at their desk or table?
No--but I do see people wanting to lean back with their laptops on the couch. At which point, they pull off the keyboard, close the kickstand, and treat it, temporarily, like a tablet.
No--but I do see people wanting to lean back with their laptops on the couch. At which point, they pull off the keyboard, close the kickstand, and treat it, temporarily, like a tablet.
Sales date is "around the release of Windows 8" for the Surface and "3 months after that" for the Surface Pro. The variable is the release of Windows 8.
The variable is also when they get this thing finished. They didn't allow anyone to have hands-on time with the unit and the keyboard and cover. Touch the keyboard cover. Touch the unit, no, you can't launch apps or use more than our sandboxed interface. No, you can't try typing on it.
It's not ready. At all. That's fine, I understand why they had to announce this now (even if it was a bit earlier than would be ideal), but Microsoft knows when it's releasing Windows 8 and the lack of a hard release date for Surface is totally unrelated.
It's not ready. At all. That's fine, I understand why they had to announce this now (even if it was a bit earlier than would be ideal), but Microsoft knows when it's releasing Windows 8 and the lack of a hard release date for Surface is totally unrelated.
Microsoft might know when they're releasing Windows 8, but I don't. Do you? All that I've seen from MS is "RTM is planned for late July". Windows 8 isn't finished.
With that in mind, how do you know they don't know when Surface will be released? Just because they didn't announce it?
With that in mind, how do you know they don't know when Surface will be released? Just because they didn't announce it?
In journalist parlance, "people close to the company have told us that there is no concrete release date at this time. The team is aiming for late Fall 2012."
They clearly wanted to steal the thunder from Google's tablet launch.
The software that powers the device has been out and has been played with by millions by now. So you can't compare it to playbook. Price is unknown but that will only decide how appealing the product is not necessarily the fact that it still makes the iPad feel incomplete. For some people the full OS and keyboard would be worth more money for some it won't.
Microsoft naming things again... They needed to call them Surface and Surface Pro.
How else would you distinguish the ARM model (Metro-only) and the Intel model (contains a full desktop) ?
I seem to recall MacBook and MacBook Pro co-existing for years without a hint of ridicule...
I seem to recall MacBook and MacBook Pro co-existing for years without a hint of ridicule...
That's the problem, they're not called "Surface" and "Surface Pro", they're called "Surface for Windows RT" and "Surface for Windows 8 Pro".
Ah you're right - I misunderstood the parent's comment
Officially, maybe. Looking at the site, it's quite clearly branded "Surface". Not having the final retail packaging, it's just a guess what the final retail name will be.
The Samsung Galaxy is officially named the Samsung I9000, but the retail packaging shows a more user-friendly name.
The Samsung Galaxy is officially named the Samsung I9000, but the retail packaging shows a more user-friendly name.
Is anyone thinking this will turn into a Zune 2.0? I'm not sure why everyone is so optimistic since when MS tried to copy the iPod we got a brown Zune.
And the Zune was a great hardware/software combo, with unfortunate timing. The iPhone went onto the market soon after launch and no one wanted a PMP anymore. On the flip side, when Microsoft tried to copy the Playstation, we got the Xbox. Seems to be doing pretty well.
Are you really arguing color, though? It's a black tablet with a handful of color choices for the cover/keyboard. Brown Zune has no bearing on this.
Are you really arguing color, though? It's a black tablet with a handful of color choices for the cover/keyboard. Brown Zune has no bearing on this.
Zune was released in November 2006. Claiming the iPhone caused its failure (because no one wanted a PMP anymore) is rewriting history. The best year for iPod sales was 2008. Well after the June 2007 availability of the iPhone.
Zune failed because it was late to market and was saddled with a corporate owner that lacked credibility in that particular marketplace.
Sources for the above dates and stats are Wikipedia
Zune failed because it was late to market and was saddled with a corporate owner that lacked credibility in that particular marketplace.
Sources for the above dates and stats are Wikipedia
Of those sales, how many were the iPod Touch and how many were the iPod Shuffle (two markets where Zune never competed)?
I stand by my argument that Zune entered into the market just as that market died. Your point about the credibility is another part of the whole package.
I stand by my argument that Zune entered into the market just as that market died. Your point about the credibility is another part of the whole package.
I stand by my argument that Zune entered into the market just as that market died.
Well I wish I had a small piece of the billions Apple made from that dead market.
Your point about the credibility is another part of the whole package.
What package?
Well I wish I had a small piece of the billions Apple made from that dead market.
Your point about the credibility is another part of the whole package.
What package?
What package?
The whole package of niggles that kept the Zune from mass market success. One was the fast-shrinking market for PMPs. Another was the fact that it was Microsoft, an inherently uncool corporation. I'm agreeing with you on this point.
Apple making money from the "dead" market, I believe, is a huge factor in the death of the market. It's a small market to begin with, people who want an MP3 player with a music store and mandatory music management software but don't want a smartphone. In that small of a market you'd be a fool to consider Product X over an iPod in that market no matter how much better Product X is. There's only room for one major player there, and Microsoft doesn't do well when they're relegated to second place.
I'm agreeing with you, but also standing by my assertion that Microsoft had no chance in the market no matter how awesome their product was/could have possibly been.
The whole package of niggles that kept the Zune from mass market success. One was the fast-shrinking market for PMPs. Another was the fact that it was Microsoft, an inherently uncool corporation. I'm agreeing with you on this point.
Apple making money from the "dead" market, I believe, is a huge factor in the death of the market. It's a small market to begin with, people who want an MP3 player with a music store and mandatory music management software but don't want a smartphone. In that small of a market you'd be a fool to consider Product X over an iPod in that market no matter how much better Product X is. There's only room for one major player there, and Microsoft doesn't do well when they're relegated to second place.
I'm agreeing with you, but also standing by my assertion that Microsoft had no chance in the market no matter how awesome their product was/could have possibly been.
Enterprise IT departments are the reason for the market's optimism. The argument is that corporate buyers will prefer a tablet that integrates well with their current infrastructure. Assuming a decent product, MS would seem to have a built-in market that's insulated from iOS or Android competition. Or so the thinking goes. Even many old-school corporations are HTML5 / web-app first these days. I think Window's platform lock-in isn't what it used to be.
That would still be an improvement from Kin 2.0, which could still be a possible outcome.
I am going to be watching this product very closely and might even climb on the x86 model pre-order bandwagon when I can. I am a software developer who travels a lot and I currently use a Vaio Z and an Asus Slider on the road. I was very close to picking up the new Transformer but who's kidding who, having to work in a Microsoft world on Android is still a tricky process. I love my ASUS tablets but if this product is as good as it looks, it's a no brainer. To be able to run native x86 apps, have a decent sized keyboard, 1080p, with the portability of a tablet... win win. I don't often get too excited about a product but Microsoft really has caught my eye on this one.
At 13:36 in the keynote video, he opens up Internet Explorer and surface freezes. By 14:22 he has to run back and get a new surface.
It's a Microsoft tradition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjZQGRATlwA
I'll just leave this here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsKKQNZG3rE
I know this thread is not about apple but I don't know of any tech demo that is guaranteed to have a 100% success rate.
I know this thread is not about apple but I don't know of any tech demo that is guaranteed to have a 100% success rate.
"My computer has never frozen!"
Beta product running beta software froze!!!!
That is no excuse. Been a Apple hater myself, but, their presentations are impeccable. I am sure that Jobs did not had any doubt of what he had in hand to present was actually working.
So is no excuse. Better wait a month or more but smash eveyone with what the device is doing software wise and not what periferals it has.
So is no excuse. Better wait a month or more but smash eveyone with what the device is doing software wise and not what periferals it has.
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>but, their presentations are impeccable.
It happens all the time, even during apple keynotes.
It happens all the time, even during apple keynotes.
I'm sure people at Microsoft didn't plan for that to freeze and they were pissed that it did but note that when apple product sees the light of the day, it's already the final product not a beta product as this was. And as far as I am reading, people seem to be impressed by it a lot.
Now you can always argue why Microsoft chose it to demo it now in its beta form but that is anybody's guess.
Now you can always argue why Microsoft chose it to demo it now in its beta form but that is anybody's guess.
> note that when apple product sees the light of the day, it's already the final product not a beta product as this was
And that's the problem - Microsoft pushing a product that isn't really there yet. All sorts of really important details (battery life, touch responsiveness, price, etc) are unknown and unverifiable.
Right now, this is nothing more than a paper launch, bordering on vaporware.
And that's the problem - Microsoft pushing a product that isn't really there yet. All sorts of really important details (battery life, touch responsiveness, price, etc) are unknown and unverifiable.
Right now, this is nothing more than a paper launch, bordering on vaporware.
The success of Xbox should not be used as a point of reference without mentioning the red ring of death that almost killed it. That type of problem would be fatal in the tablet market.
One of the thoughts I've had about this device is whether we'll be able to use a Surface tablet as the touch input device on a normal PC running Windows 8.
My imagination pictures me connecting the Surface to my PC via USB and being able to use it as a touch control while viewing on a normal monitor.
Am I dreaming, or do you think someone at MS has had the same idea?
My imagination pictures me connecting the Surface to my PC via USB and being able to use it as a touch control while viewing on a normal monitor.
Am I dreaming, or do you think someone at MS has had the same idea?
MIcrosoft succeeded in giving PC users another high quality tablet path.
Enterprise users can use Windows apps the rely on for work and still enjoy a tablet experience.
If they nail the keyboard/touchpad feel then this solves the need to buy a laptop and a tablet.
Enterprise users can use Windows apps the rely on for work and still enjoy a tablet experience.
If they nail the keyboard/touchpad feel then this solves the need to buy a laptop and a tablet.
So you think all enterprise users will be content to having 10" "laptops"? Most of them will still need large screen laptops, so they could get cheaper non-ultrabook laptop instead (and probably more powerful, too - ultrabooks are pretty weak) and then buy an iPad or an Android tablet for a $1000-$1200 total price, which is probably what the Surface Pro 10" tablet will cost.
Not all but certainly any Windows user who is considering a tablet.
Many laptop users dock them at work for use with a monitor, keyboard and mouse.
People who travel a lot may find good use also. Work and play in one package.
Many laptop users dock them at work for use with a monitor, keyboard and mouse.
People who travel a lot may find good use also. Work and play in one package.
if ubuntu/unity works flawlessly on this thing I'm in. I already have a MacBook Air and an Android tablet - this device with Unity on it seems like a merging of the two to me.
"From the get-go, and despite Redmond’s very noisy protestations to the contrary, Windows 8 is obviously a touch-first operating system. This kind of made sense; with tablets and smartphones very quickly taking over the world, Microsoft was compelled to quickly bolster its mobile presence. In the process, though, Microsoft was effectively screwing over its installed base of 1 billion non-touch Windows PCs. Surface is the missing link. The strategy is now perfectly clear: If you want to experience Windows 8 properly, you have to buy a Microsoft tablet."