Why are Apple laptops becoming harder to take apart?(rc3.org)
rc3.org
Why are Apple laptops becoming harder to take apart?
http://rc3.org/2012/06/16/why-are-apple-laptops-becoming-harder-to-take-apart/
13 comments
Why wouldn't it be an either-or proposition?
It is clear that Apple went to great lengths to fit a 15" retina display to a powerful laptop while maintaining battery-life and trimming over a pound from the weight.
What, concretely, do you think they should have done differently?
That's a rhetorical question, no need to answer it, because any answer you give is going to be pure BS when compared to a product that I can actually drive across town and try (maybe even buy if I get there before their latest shipment sells out).
It is clear that Apple went to great lengths to fit a 15" retina display to a powerful laptop while maintaining battery-life and trimming over a pound from the weight.
What, concretely, do you think they should have done differently?
That's a rhetorical question, no need to answer it, because any answer you give is going to be pure BS when compared to a product that I can actually drive across town and try (maybe even buy if I get there before their latest shipment sells out).
You don't even need to upgrade your harddrive to an SSD because it is an SSD. Apple's new laptops really are fast and definitely up to the task of powering your work/entertainment for the foreseeable future.
I'm 100% content with my 2nd generation Air. The new one has a faster chipset and disk, so what? It's not like I'm waiting long for stuff to happen on my laptop. I find this while outrage at Apple for making a laptop that's not upgradable a bit ridiculous. And yes, I used to upgrade laptops. No need anymore ;)
I'm 100% content with my 2nd generation Air. The new one has a faster chipset and disk, so what? It's not like I'm waiting long for stuff to happen on my laptop. I find this while outrage at Apple for making a laptop that's not upgradable a bit ridiculous. And yes, I used to upgrade laptops. No need anymore ;)
Well technically, you can upgrade the SSD by buying one specific to the MacBook Pro, as OWC has done for the MacBook Air.
I look at it as a power play for creating more loyal consumers. Apple asserts its power by making the device unusable except for its intended purpose. You assert your submission by paying money for the device and using it like you should. Like it or not, dominance and submission is a powerful concept for humans, and Apple is exploiting this to get more of your laptop and tablet dollar.
(The arguments about thinness make no sense. A torx screw is just as thin as a pentalobular screw. The unusual screw design is there solely as a "fuck you" gesture, which many people react quite positively to.)
(The arguments about thinness make no sense. A torx screw is just as thin as a pentalobular screw. The unusual screw design is there solely as a "fuck you" gesture, which many people react quite positively to.)
Apple asserts its power by making the device unusable except for its intended purpose.
How is this distinguishable from paring a device down to the elements necessary for its function? The ultimate in "form follows function" design would produce something fairly close to what you state.
Like it or not, dominance and submission is a powerful concept for humans, and Apple is exploiting this to get more of your laptop and tablet dollar.
Yeah, I always did have some sense that dominance of an aesthetic or cultural sort was somehow underlying everything they did. (And in some sense, it's always been a disturbing sense.)
How is this distinguishable from paring a device down to the elements necessary for its function? The ultimate in "form follows function" design would produce something fairly close to what you state.
Like it or not, dominance and submission is a powerful concept for humans, and Apple is exploiting this to get more of your laptop and tablet dollar.
Yeah, I always did have some sense that dominance of an aesthetic or cultural sort was somehow underlying everything they did. (And in some sense, it's always been a disturbing sense.)
If you would like to upgrade your laptops, there would be many non-Apple products.
For most people, replacement would be a better choice then upgrade.
For most people, replacement would be a better choice then upgrade.
"For most people, replacement would be a better choice then upgrade."
i dont believe so - they are marketed to as being the better choice. However, a small upgrade (e.g., an extra stick of ram, a bigger SSD) is really all a consumer level user would need for a computer to last a bit more than 5 years. Obviously, this path sells less. But then you ahve to ask, why is it that you need to buy a new computer? its such a waste if the current one is only slightly slower, and a small upgrade will make it last another couple of years.
i dont believe so - they are marketed to as being the better choice. However, a small upgrade (e.g., an extra stick of ram, a bigger SSD) is really all a consumer level user would need for a computer to last a bit more than 5 years. Obviously, this path sells less. But then you ahve to ask, why is it that you need to buy a new computer? its such a waste if the current one is only slightly slower, and a small upgrade will make it last another couple of years.
> We have consistently voted for hardware that’s thinner rather than upgradeable
I'm ok with that, I'd prefer to get thinner hardware than hardware that I can upgrade, many of us have never upgraded a laptop anyways, and that's OK.
I'm ok with that, I'd prefer to get thinner hardware than hardware that I can upgrade, many of us have never upgraded a laptop anyways, and that's OK.
I always liked to dig into hardware. I customized and assembled my own PCs from bare-bone kits. But with Apple products it doesn't make sense anymore I would rather have a new laptop/iPad/phone every year or so than try to revive outdated piece. I guess this trend will continue and computers will become more like microwave ovens or TV set. How many people upgrade their microwaves?! :)
How many people install software on their microwaves?
the software is the most important part. the hardware should be all but irrelevant except for aesthetics.
That the software works correctly with the specific hardware is the important part.
That's the dream, but software pushes the envelope constantly, so much so that a computer that was cutting-edge a month ago is lagging today. If the hardware were irrelevant then we wouldn't be seeing faster and more efficient computers year after year.
Because Apple's end game has always been to turn the computer into an appliance. This is not a new development. This strategy failed for decades until the PC became ubiquitous and mass market. When computers are no longer limited to the tech elite, Apple's strategy of dumb appliances make much more sense. It's automatic verus manual transmission.
As for me, I've never upgraded a computer in my life beyond adding RAM, because in 4-years time, my motherboard inevitably becomes incompatible with everything in the market anyway. In order to upgrade, I'd have to buy a new motherboard.
So in that case, if I end up having to build/buy a new computer every four years anyway, is upgrading really that important? I don't upgrade my microwave. I don't upgrade my toaster.
As for me, I've never upgraded a computer in my life beyond adding RAM, because in 4-years time, my motherboard inevitably becomes incompatible with everything in the market anyway. In order to upgrade, I'd have to buy a new motherboard.
So in that case, if I end up having to build/buy a new computer every four years anyway, is upgrading really that important? I don't upgrade my microwave. I don't upgrade my toaster.
I agree with the author; most people don't bother cracking the case on any computer they own. We're in the minority on this one and as the author said, I'd rather have a MBP with Retina Display than an easy to service/upgrade previous generation MacBook Pro (or any other brand for that matter).
My cars have become increasingly difficult to service myself over the years. When I bought my first car over twenty years ago I could do routine maintenance on it myself. Now when I open the hood of my Acura the whole engine compartment is covered and pieces must be removed to service it. This car is the most expensive computer I've ever bought and I'd wager it's even harder for the average user to service than the new MacBook Pro!
My cars have become increasingly difficult to service myself over the years. When I bought my first car over twenty years ago I could do routine maintenance on it myself. Now when I open the hood of my Acura the whole engine compartment is covered and pieces must be removed to service it. This car is the most expensive computer I've ever bought and I'd wager it's even harder for the average user to service than the new MacBook Pro!
But when the tire wears out, you don't have to go to a special service ship just to get a better set of treads!
This mac book lockdown is akin to them locking out the tires of a car, so that the average person cant change it themselves, even tho theres no reason to do so other than as an anti-competitive measure.
This mac book lockdown is akin to them locking out the tires of a car, so that the average person cant change it themselves, even tho theres no reason to do so other than as an anti-competitive measure.
To put the car analogy straigth I would compare changing the tires with replacing the power adapter. I'm not interested in adding a turbo in my outback like I'm not interested in adding more ram in my laptop.
Happy MBA convert after 15 years of Linux/pc.
Happy MBA convert after 15 years of Linux/pc.
A laptop isn't meant to be a PC, it's meant to be small, so Apple is doing their part in my eyes.
That being said... I recently replaced the HDD in my girlfriend's Macbook and was pleasantly surprised as to how easy it was.
If it comes down to a tradoff between 20% larger size OR 100% inoperability if any single part goes down... I think I would choose the larger laptop.
That being said... I recently replaced the HDD in my girlfriend's Macbook and was pleasantly surprised as to how easy it was.
If it comes down to a tradoff between 20% larger size OR 100% inoperability if any single part goes down... I think I would choose the larger laptop.
I liked what they did before: have two options for people. The slightly bigger option with customization (MacBook Pro, Mac Pro) and the streamlined clean option for those who don't want to fiddle with anything (MacBook Air, iMac, Mac Mini).
The thing I'm annoyed with is the inability to swap out RAM sticks. The recent MacBook's usually allow for more RAM than Apple specifies. Theoretically, the MacBook Pro Retina model should handle 32 GB (16gb x 2). However, because the RAM is soldered, I won't be able to put that build together when those sticks are available in a few years. Which is kind of ridiculous when considering how much money ($3000+) is going into it.
The thing I'm annoyed with is the inability to swap out RAM sticks. The recent MacBook's usually allow for more RAM than Apple specifies. Theoretically, the MacBook Pro Retina model should handle 32 GB (16gb x 2). However, because the RAM is soldered, I won't be able to put that build together when those sticks are available in a few years. Which is kind of ridiculous when considering how much money ($3000+) is going into it.
I agree with this article. I was actually thinking about this earlier today and amazed at all the backlash. There is a trade-off between form factor and upgradeability. I suspect (and I'm sure they did their homework) that a large percentage of apple's target demographic favors a sleaker design. This has certainly been the case with ipods, iphones, ipads, etc.
Who says next years will also be hard to take apart? They made the thing really freaking small, squeezing out every little inch. Lets see if it stays that way.
Conclusion is over the better dumb, sorry.
Remember the story about tire companies buying trolley routes, running them out of schedule, people opting for other means of transportation because trolleys were never on time, than municipalits moving to buses because "nobody takes the trolleys anymore"?
It's the same.
Nobody upgrades their laptops because they are not made to be upgradable. Ram and hd? Hahaha. That's to easy seller prices not long term upgrade.
Heck, even the keyboard is already an addon on all models, yet there's no offer of key sizes or layouts.
CPUs could be socket instead of soldered, adding what? 1mm at most? Never been done.
Remember the story about tire companies buying trolley routes, running them out of schedule, people opting for other means of transportation because trolleys were never on time, than municipalits moving to buses because "nobody takes the trolleys anymore"?
It's the same.
Nobody upgrades their laptops because they are not made to be upgradable. Ram and hd? Hahaha. That's to easy seller prices not long term upgrade.
Heck, even the keyboard is already an addon on all models, yet there's no offer of key sizes or layouts.
CPUs could be socket instead of soldered, adding what? 1mm at most? Never been done.
> CPUs could be socket instead of soldered, adding what? 1mm at most? Never been done.
My Toshiba Satellite in 1999 had a socketed AMD K6-II 380Mhz cpu, which I upgraded 10 years later as a "I wonder if...?" exercise before junking the computer.
My Toshiba Satellite in 1999 had a socketed AMD K6-II 380Mhz cpu, which I upgraded 10 years later as a "I wonder if...?" exercise before junking the computer.
Oh cracking, missed the point completely and is first page on hacker news? My trousers could write more insightful articles.
Point: If you can squeeze a couple more years of service out of an upgradable laptop by maxing out the RAM, you should probably do so since the alternative is, basically throwing it away as landfill (note that the iFixit article said that claims about the body being recyclable were basically bunkum.)
So basically, every time you "never upgraded a laptop anyways, and that's OK", God kills an environmentally friendly kitten. Or something like that.
Point: If you can squeeze a couple more years of service out of an upgradable laptop by maxing out the RAM, you should probably do so since the alternative is, basically throwing it away as landfill (note that the iFixit article said that claims about the body being recyclable were basically bunkum.)
So basically, every time you "never upgraded a laptop anyways, and that's OK", God kills an environmentally friendly kitten. Or something like that.
Point: If you can squeeze a couple more years of service out of an upgradable laptop by maxing out the RAM, you should probably do so since the alternative is, basically throwing it away as landfill (note that the iFixit article said that claims about the body being recyclable were basically bunkum.)
Sorry, but even this strikes me as dangerously close to FUD. A generic recycler couldn't be bothered to separate the screen glass from the lid, but I doubt there's any reason why Apple couldn't figure out a recycling strategy that would work. (And they basically provide the FedEx fee for you to send it back to them.)
Sorry, but even this strikes me as dangerously close to FUD. A generic recycler couldn't be bothered to separate the screen glass from the lid, but I doubt there's any reason why Apple couldn't figure out a recycling strategy that would work. (And they basically provide the FedEx fee for you to send it back to them.)
I was quoting from the iFixit article
"The design may well be comprised of “highly recyclable aluminum and glass” — but my friends in the electronics recycling industry tell me they have no way of recycling aluminum that has glass glued to it like Apple did with both this machine and the recent iPad."
I took this to mean that recycling was essentially impossible (by Apple or anyone else). Perhaps Apple can indeed figure out a recycling strategy. I doubt they will spend any time on it unless prompted by adverse publicity (like this article is generating).
"The design may well be comprised of “highly recyclable aluminum and glass” — but my friends in the electronics recycling industry tell me they have no way of recycling aluminum that has glass glued to it like Apple did with both this machine and the recent iPad."
I took this to mean that recycling was essentially impossible (by Apple or anyone else). Perhaps Apple can indeed figure out a recycling strategy. I doubt they will spend any time on it unless prompted by adverse publicity (like this article is generating).
but my friends in the electronics recycling industry tell me they have no way of recycling aluminum that has glass glued to it like Apple did with both this machine and the recent iPad.
I took this to mean that recycling was essentially impossible (by Apple or anyone else).
Well, as you basically admit below, the economics and motivations of most recyclers are not going to be the same as Apple. In any case, this doesn't mean that they won't take any aluminum that has ever had glass glued to it. It just means that they won't take something with the glass still glued to it.
I'll bet you $1000 that I could get the screen glass off of a Retina Macbook Pro with a hammer and an angle grinder or another common shop tool. (You supply the Macbook.) Most anything I can do inconveniently and dangerously at a hackerspace with an ordinary shop tool could be done with greater safety and lower unit cost with an appropriate custom tool.
Perhaps Apple can indeed figure out a recycling strategy. I doubt they will spend any time on it unless prompted by adverse publicity (like this article is generating).
So you don't know, and neither does your source. All you have is supposition, for which you leave yourself an out.
I took this to mean that recycling was essentially impossible (by Apple or anyone else).
Well, as you basically admit below, the economics and motivations of most recyclers are not going to be the same as Apple. In any case, this doesn't mean that they won't take any aluminum that has ever had glass glued to it. It just means that they won't take something with the glass still glued to it.
I'll bet you $1000 that I could get the screen glass off of a Retina Macbook Pro with a hammer and an angle grinder or another common shop tool. (You supply the Macbook.) Most anything I can do inconveniently and dangerously at a hackerspace with an ordinary shop tool could be done with greater safety and lower unit cost with an appropriate custom tool.
Perhaps Apple can indeed figure out a recycling strategy. I doubt they will spend any time on it unless prompted by adverse publicity (like this article is generating).
So you don't know, and neither does your source. All you have is supposition, for which you leave yourself an out.
I just spent two years transitioning my life away from windows, which I used for about 15 years, to OS X just to suddenly find that I can't run out and buy a new SSD hard drive to try on my system if I wanted to ... brilliant. The best part is, If reading HN threads where people are basically agreeing with this nonsense, because Apple made the decision.
Thats right, just keep taking away choices from the user until the entire company and its customers become one huge parody. oh, hang on ... we're already there. yuck.
PS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYecfV3ubP8