Google Engineer on Australia's slow growing Silicon Valley(google-au.blogspot.com.au)
google-au.blogspot.com.au
Google Engineer on Australia's slow growing Silicon Valley
http://google-au.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/australia-from-consumers-to-creators-of.html
10 comments
This piece sums up one of the problems perfectly - the teachers simply can't keep up with the technology involved. As far as I can tell, our high-school CS curriculum in Queensland hasn't changed much since the early 90s. It consists of:
- One and a half semesters of "conceptual schema design procedure", backed up by a mundane textbook written in 1989 by a "big wheel" type from a local university. What makes this particularly strange is the amount of conceptual work you do on relational database schema design without actually using a relational database.
- Two and a half semesters of Visual Basic 6. I asked my teacher why he was still teaching it and his response was more-or-less "...because it's the only language I know". CS4HS could be a real help here.
- A smattering of lessons on "social and ethical issues in IT", which are about as insightful as they sound.
Of course, the HS curriculum is just one of the issues. The mining boom has meant that newly minted EEs can get up to $120k straight out of university by joining the fly in/fly out workforce in central QLD and WA, so the mathematically inclined students tend to choose civil, electrical, mechanical or chemical engineering courses. Australia has a long way to go if it wants to become the world's "Silicon Beach".
- One and a half semesters of "conceptual schema design procedure", backed up by a mundane textbook written in 1989 by a "big wheel" type from a local university. What makes this particularly strange is the amount of conceptual work you do on relational database schema design without actually using a relational database.
- Two and a half semesters of Visual Basic 6. I asked my teacher why he was still teaching it and his response was more-or-less "...because it's the only language I know". CS4HS could be a real help here.
- A smattering of lessons on "social and ethical issues in IT", which are about as insightful as they sound.
Of course, the HS curriculum is just one of the issues. The mining boom has meant that newly minted EEs can get up to $120k straight out of university by joining the fly in/fly out workforce in central QLD and WA, so the mathematically inclined students tend to choose civil, electrical, mechanical or chemical engineering courses. Australia has a long way to go if it wants to become the world's "Silicon Beach".
Australia will not have a Silicon Valley until the banks let Australian startups charge their customers in USD.
I don't understand what you are saying - the banks don't control how I charge my customers. I've charged in numerous currencies, either directly or via payment processors. Can you elaborate?
From Australia?
My understanding was that this post from 2010 was still essentially the state of play for Australian accounts: http://www.22michaels.com/2010/04/online-retail-in-australia...
That essentially it's Paypal, Worldpay or NAB.
That essentially it's Paypal, Worldpay or NAB.
I used WorldPay: high annual fees and % fees. I can't believe the situation hasn't improved after 10 years.
There's a startup opportunity here - it doesn't need to be Google Checkout or Stripe - and, because it would benefit Australian business, it would make sense for the government to fund it (ha).
There's a startup opportunity here - it doesn't need to be Google Checkout or Stripe - and, because it would benefit Australian business, it would make sense for the government to fund it (ha).
I see.
Yet another good reason to outsource payment processing, and concentrate instead on what you do well.
I use FastSpring because they are good at the headaches of making it easy for people to pay whenever, however, in whatever currency they like.
Yet another good reason to outsource payment processing, and concentrate instead on what you do well.
I use FastSpring because they are good at the headaches of making it easy for people to pay whenever, however, in whatever currency they like.
Thanks. Nice to see other options. (So they wont pay to an AU account but they will pay out to a paypal account or send a cheque).
Australian company here charging customers in USD for nearly 10 years now via PayPal.
"Having a Silicon Valley" is totally unrelated I think.
"Having a Silicon Valley" is totally unrelated I think.
I don't think it's totally unrelated, only having one or two third party life lines for charging customers in a currency other than AUD is fairly dire for the success of any "Silicon Valley" if the startups are planning on making any money from global online sales.
Do the fees that PayPal charge really cross the line from a possible business idea to non-viable one for you?
There may be some sectors which you could say you can't compete in on a global stage from Australia because of payment processing fees but it really wouldn't be many. What is the big deal about setting up a US company to handle it? Why not charge US customers in USD?
There are so many options that to dismiss running a business from Australia because of the extra few % really may be a problem in your business plan and product instead of payment processing options/cost.
There may be some sectors which you could say you can't compete in on a global stage from Australia because of payment processing fees but it really wouldn't be many. What is the big deal about setting up a US company to handle it? Why not charge US customers in USD?
There are so many options that to dismiss running a business from Australia because of the extra few % really may be a problem in your business plan and product instead of payment processing options/cost.
I think you found the answer in your question. If I have to setup a US company because I can't get support in Australia to accept USD on my site, what else should I be doing in the US? It's got nothing to do with business plans or PayPal fees, it's about offering a professional solution on a global scale.
<sarcasm>You could get your healthcare in the US</sarcasm>
IIRC, you can't do this for subscription based services - PayPal won't let non-US account holders store CCVs.
Are you doing recurring billing with PayPal? If so, I'd love to know how!
Are you doing recurring billing with PayPal? If so, I'd love to know how!
We do recurring billing with them, you just have to use their interface - https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_pdn_subscr_techvi...
No we don't do recurring billing so I can't help regarding that.
why do you think so?
It's a massive hurdle to charge your customers without using third party payment processors in Australia (PayPal). To get around it you can either use third parties (PayPal) or what every startup I've come across in Australia has done so far that want a professional checkout system, charged in AUD, set up US subsidiary or gone down the route impossible for a smaller start up, set up with NAB.
Aside from this Australia is a good place to run a startup, there's a good community in most of the major cities.
Aside from this Australia is a good place to run a startup, there's a good community in most of the major cities.
I see your point. How about an Australian startup that does paypal's job?
Many Australian universities have a 'Bachelor of Information Technology' instead of of a 'Bachelor of Computer Science'. The one I did was a 3 year degree, it still did most of the CS subjects that I've seen elsewhere, though it didn't have any compulsory Maths (I think an extra semester of Maths should be added).
I did the degree part time whilst working full time and once I was done I started the interview process for a position at Google. I was told that they don't usually hire anyone unless they have a bachelor of computer science, but that they'd make an exception seeing as I've been working (effectively had 4 years experience at that time). I ended up getting a non-grad job elsewhere even before my second phone interview, but it seems to me that if they only hire BSc students, the university system is not setup to suit them.
I've never met anyone from Queensland (my home state) that has done a BSc, its either called Bachelor of IT or Software Engineering. That doesn't mean they aren't capable of being great employees for Google.
I did the degree part time whilst working full time and once I was done I started the interview process for a position at Google. I was told that they don't usually hire anyone unless they have a bachelor of computer science, but that they'd make an exception seeing as I've been working (effectively had 4 years experience at that time). I ended up getting a non-grad job elsewhere even before my second phone interview, but it seems to me that if they only hire BSc students, the university system is not setup to suit them.
I've never met anyone from Queensland (my home state) that has done a BSc, its either called Bachelor of IT or Software Engineering. That doesn't mean they aren't capable of being great employees for Google.
I'm in the same situation at the moment, having just begun a Bachelor of Information Technology through RMIT and Open Universities Australia, which for international readers, is a distance education organization involving several large Australian universities. I am also working full time, although not in IT, unfortunately.
I'm not in a financial position to fund my studies myself, so I'm making use of the federal government 'FEE-HELP' system, which basically means I don't begin repaying my loan(s) until I reach a certain income threshold. I also live in a 'regional' area on the NSW Mid North Coast, and despite living within an hour of a local university, the courses and degrees I've enrolled in aren't offered in this area.
I can understand that there are most likely different factors that determine whether or not a particular degree is covered by FEE-HELP, but it's a shame that it seems like a proper CS degree is still only viable for somebody living in a large capital city, with the finances available to self-fund their studies.
As you've mentioned, a Bachelor of IT does offer certain fundamental units that you'd encounter in a CS degree, but none of the advanced maths units seem to be offered.
If the National Broadband Network actually gets finished one day, hopefully more long distance education providers might be able to offer degrees such as CS, with the aid of fast, reliable internet connectivity to help solve the locale problem.
I'm not in a financial position to fund my studies myself, so I'm making use of the federal government 'FEE-HELP' system, which basically means I don't begin repaying my loan(s) until I reach a certain income threshold. I also live in a 'regional' area on the NSW Mid North Coast, and despite living within an hour of a local university, the courses and degrees I've enrolled in aren't offered in this area.
I can understand that there are most likely different factors that determine whether or not a particular degree is covered by FEE-HELP, but it's a shame that it seems like a proper CS degree is still only viable for somebody living in a large capital city, with the finances available to self-fund their studies.
As you've mentioned, a Bachelor of IT does offer certain fundamental units that you'd encounter in a CS degree, but none of the advanced maths units seem to be offered.
If the National Broadband Network actually gets finished one day, hopefully more long distance education providers might be able to offer degrees such as CS, with the aid of fast, reliable internet connectivity to help solve the locale problem.
I too completed a Bachelor of Information Technology (BIT) though I more than completed the equivalent of a Bachelor of Computer Science & Technology (BCST). BIT at my university is a BCST Advanced with Honours thrown in (a year of research where you produce a thesis on a novel topic).
I interned at Google and know many people who work there -- whilst their interview process takes forever they wouldn't mind what your degree is if they have enough ticks from the Google interviewers.
Essentially Google are just slow to trust. It's easier for them to turn down a promising candidate than remove a candidate who showed promise but couldn't live up to their potential. The best suggestion is to have a friend on the inside recommend you -- internal recommendations feature a lot more klout.
I interned at Google and know many people who work there -- whilst their interview process takes forever they wouldn't mind what your degree is if they have enough ticks from the Google interviewers.
Essentially Google are just slow to trust. It's easier for them to turn down a promising candidate than remove a candidate who showed promise but couldn't live up to their potential. The best suggestion is to have a friend on the inside recommend you -- internal recommendations feature a lot more klout.
I suspect a large part of the problem is Australia's very conservative investment culture. This is a country where Fortescue Metals Group was a risky investment because they were building a mine, some rail road, and a port for one big iron ore project.
So imagine how popular investment in developing technology is over there when it is both:
1. little understood by the investors, and
2. perceived as highly risky.
So with little technology investment, there are few options for graduates, aside from work in places where technology/IT is a cost centre, not a profit centre, which depresses the salaries and increases the appeal of moving to some place where their skills are in demand and highly valued.
And, I should add, without compelling local role models or opportunities, many students looking at selecting a major are going to go elsewhere.
How healthy is the startup scene down under?
IMO Great. Here are some reasons why:
1) It is remarkably easy to start a business in Australia. Three steps, IIRC, and can be done in a day.
2) There are significant tax breaks for people selling a company they started
3) The language is English, which is a big advantage for sales and marketing reasons, and many others
4) Australian-based businesses don't need to charge sales tat/VAT/GST to anyone except Australian customers. (In comparison, I'm currently based in Spain, so I have to charge various rates of VAT/sales tax to all European Union customers)
5) Relatively low bureaucratic hurdle (compared to UK, Germany, Spain, and Lebanon - the other countries where I've worked)
6) The infrastructure is excellent. (Internet infrastructure could be better though - it is not on par with western europe.)
1) It is remarkably easy to start a business in Australia. Three steps, IIRC, and can be done in a day.
2) There are significant tax breaks for people selling a company they started
3) The language is English, which is a big advantage for sales and marketing reasons, and many others
4) Australian-based businesses don't need to charge sales tat/VAT/GST to anyone except Australian customers. (In comparison, I'm currently based in Spain, so I have to charge various rates of VAT/sales tax to all European Union customers)
5) Relatively low bureaucratic hurdle (compared to UK, Germany, Spain, and Lebanon - the other countries where I've worked)
6) The infrastructure is excellent. (Internet infrastructure could be better though - it is not on par with western europe.)
I agree with all the points you've made but not with your conclusion. Australia is shocking for startups, at least in Brisbane. I definitely do not recommend. Sydney/Melbourne might be a different story.
The sad thing is we have huge technical talent that is being wasted. 50% of my colleagues who are any good have left Brisbane to go to Silicon Valley or New York.
We have these negative points about Brisbane:
- Huge tall poppy syndrome. We tear each other down. Then when someone leaves and makes it big in the US we try to reclaim them.
- The people who get funded are the "ideas" people. Not those with the talent to make it happen. If you have the technical talent then forget about raising funds. You're just a code monkey. This is really bad for the startup community as a whole as we have a continual spiral of crap products coming from funded companies.
- The startup industry is filled with vultures. We have more incubators and companies helping people raise funds than actual startups.
Anyway enough of my rant. I should just be done with it and move to the US, or at least Sydney/Melbourne.
The sad thing is we have huge technical talent that is being wasted. 50% of my colleagues who are any good have left Brisbane to go to Silicon Valley or New York.
We have these negative points about Brisbane:
- Huge tall poppy syndrome. We tear each other down. Then when someone leaves and makes it big in the US we try to reclaim them.
- The people who get funded are the "ideas" people. Not those with the talent to make it happen. If you have the technical talent then forget about raising funds. You're just a code monkey. This is really bad for the startup community as a whole as we have a continual spiral of crap products coming from funded companies.
- The startup industry is filled with vultures. We have more incubators and companies helping people raise funds than actual startups.
Anyway enough of my rant. I should just be done with it and move to the US, or at least Sydney/Melbourne.
Brisbane/Queensland has suddenly seen a large increase in the local startup community. Groups like Silicon Beach and The Lean Startup have been a big part of it, especially with getting the word out on Microsoft's offering via its newly opened Innovation Centre initiative.
Steve Baxter (Founder of PIPE networks) has also come forward as a big player, opening up River City Labs, a co-working space for startups passing their application criteria. He has committed a large sum of money to all this and there is even talk of a Y-Combinator style seed investment strategy coming out of it all.
It is still early days but there has been A LOT of movement in this space locally and I personally am excited about what is ahead.
Steve Baxter (Founder of PIPE networks) has also come forward as a big player, opening up River City Labs, a co-working space for startups passing their application criteria. He has committed a large sum of money to all this and there is even talk of a Y-Combinator style seed investment strategy coming out of it all.
It is still early days but there has been A LOT of movement in this space locally and I personally am excited about what is ahead.
There's been the same sort of growth in seed incubators in Melbourne as well. The problem is that they are all following the same playbook:
Get an Idea (Startup Weekend) -> Build Prototype (Seed) -> Head Over To Silicon Valley -> Sell/Fail.
I fail to see how that is in any way good for anybody other than the investors.
Get an Idea (Startup Weekend) -> Build Prototype (Seed) -> Head Over To Silicon Valley -> Sell/Fail.
I fail to see how that is in any way good for anybody other than the investors.
Do you have any more information on Melbourne incubators?
I know of AngelCube, is there a 'best' startup community?
I'm still yet to even find a good online forum for startups (nothing like news.ycombinator even)
How do they sell/fail? You mean, no one wants to buy Australian startups because they're usually just not very good?
I know of AngelCube, is there a 'best' startup community?
I'm still yet to even find a good online forum for startups (nothing like news.ycombinator even)
How do they sell/fail? You mean, no one wants to buy Australian startups because they're usually just not very good?
We'll see. Lots of people getting on the Startup bandwagon at the moment. Some of them are helped along by PushStart and StartMate (YC-style incubators). Others are finding their own way.
Some cool things are going on and other stuff has happened here: Atlassian, Google Maps, Freelancer, Campaign Monitor, 99 Designs are some big-ish names.
Australia tends to hate on itself and think that everything is horrible, when we actually have it much better than many other places. For "Tech Startups" it's obvious that Silicon Valley is _the_ place to be - but that doesn't mean that you have to be there to succeed. Especially if you are using technology to transform a market back home.
Some cool things are going on and other stuff has happened here: Atlassian, Google Maps, Freelancer, Campaign Monitor, 99 Designs are some big-ish names.
Australia tends to hate on itself and think that everything is horrible, when we actually have it much better than many other places. For "Tech Startups" it's obvious that Silicon Valley is _the_ place to be - but that doesn't mean that you have to be there to succeed. Especially if you are using technology to transform a market back home.
Firstly there is no doubt that Australia is a great place to start a business. It's a stable, wealthy country with great health care, financial regulations and everything generally works. We also have a great FTTH network being rolled out.
However as a startup it has nothing on other countries.
The biggest problem is that the successful people in Australia simply don't give back like they do in other countries. There is no real sense of philanthropy or altruism nor has there been much pressure from the community to do so.
So it has the left the industry with some noble seed incubators at the low end (<50K), pretty hopeless VCs at the high end (2-5M+) and very little in between. You just don't have access to that 200-500K that most startups need (i.e. 2-3 devs + 1 business) but which isn't that hard to get in UK/US/Europe.
And you see it in the outcomes. We only really have a small handful of internationally successful IT companies despite the huge wealth in the country.
However as a startup it has nothing on other countries.
The biggest problem is that the successful people in Australia simply don't give back like they do in other countries. There is no real sense of philanthropy or altruism nor has there been much pressure from the community to do so.
So it has the left the industry with some noble seed incubators at the low end (<50K), pretty hopeless VCs at the high end (2-5M+) and very little in between. You just don't have access to that 200-500K that most startups need (i.e. 2-3 devs + 1 business) but which isn't that hard to get in UK/US/Europe.
And you see it in the outcomes. We only really have a small handful of internationally successful IT companies despite the huge wealth in the country.
As an Australian CS graduate, the best offer I got from an Australian company was less than half the worst BigCo offer in the states. Google might hem and haw about "Australia's future prosperity", but their motives should be clear. More graduates does not a Silicon Valley make.
Not sure where you've been looking, I've heard of decent offers in Australia. If you've been applying for corporate IT jobs then no surprise, but you can do well over here.
Any thoughts on whether this is:
* a long term program to mint more developers (and drive down salaries) * to mint more developers to create more websites to display advertising on faster * ??? or
* a genuine good will program * ???
?
* a long term program to mint more developers (and drive down salaries) * to mint more developers to create more websites to display advertising on faster * ??? or
* a genuine good will program * ???
?
Does anyone know of anything interesting happening in New Zealand re startups?
I heard there were some restrictive regulations on selling retail items online in Australia? It effectively takes away any benefits of trading purely online. How successful is online retailing?
I've never heard of any regulations. There are plenty of successful online-only retailers across a range of industries. AFAIK you just setup a website, register for GST and off you go.
The only issue I've heard is that some brick/mortar shops have been putting pressure on suppliers not to deal with online companies. But our beloved ACCC (pro-consumer agency) is investigating as we speak and I doubt that will last very long.
The only issue I've heard is that some brick/mortar shops have been putting pressure on suppliers not to deal with online companies. But our beloved ACCC (pro-consumer agency) is investigating as we speak and I doubt that will last very long.
http://iterate.inspire.edu.au/
And if you know any high school students link them to:
http://challenge.ncss.edu.au/
There's some fantastic CS teaching programs going on in Australia and we should give them as much support as we can :)