Advice needed: what's a destitute hacker to do?
27 comments
I live in the same area, and though I do have income, I am always looking for other opportunities. From trolling CL occasionally, I've seen a number of jobs listed that might match with your stated skill-set. Most of them are in Broomfield, Boulder, or Denver, and it seems most of them are being screened by employment agencies. However, quite a few are from small, somewhat-technically-clueless (given the descriptions), shops that just need help with their wordpress or other CMS.
It sounds like you may just be in a funk, so if you want to go out for some beers (I'll buy :), just let me know.
It sounds like you may just be in a funk, so if you want to go out for some beers (I'll buy :), just let me know.
I'm really just pretty panicked. And although i haven't interviewed tons of places for programming jobs recently, the few that i have either ended up choosing another candidate or just left the position open, which hasn't done much for my self-esteem. :-/
If you have connections and can maybe help if you end up liking me sure I'd like to get together. I'm not the most fun right now given the circumstances but I can do my best. Other than that maybe we can just get together after this personal crisis is over? I'm really not overstating things and don't have much energy for casual get-togethers right now. That's not to say I wouldn't enjoy meeting up at a later date, so don't take this the wrong way! I appreciate the offer of support.
If you have connections and can maybe help if you end up liking me sure I'd like to get together. I'm not the most fun right now given the circumstances but I can do my best. Other than that maybe we can just get together after this personal crisis is over? I'm really not overstating things and don't have much energy for casual get-togethers right now. That's not to say I wouldn't enjoy meeting up at a later date, so don't take this the wrong way! I appreciate the offer of support.
I understand. My experience has been that the best way to find work opportunities is through networking (I know it's not always fun). Not to use a cliché, but it is often who you know, not what.
I'm trying to figure out a way (financially) to setup a hackerspace in the area, and I'll try to get a hold of you if I succeed.
I'm trying to figure out a way (financially) to setup a hackerspace in the area, and I'll try to get a hold of you if I succeed.
When I get in a rut, the best thing is to get some small things done first.
Have you looked at sites like elance, odesk, and guru? You can find small projects there that pay. It could be a good way to get some momentum back. You may have to apply for a bunch of projects to get your first assignment, but don't get discouraged. You have talent. Whatever experience is lacking on your profile, just add your test scores etc.
You mention several different ways that your confidence is low. Let me tell you a secret: the rest of us feel the same way, just that we may have managed to ignore it a little better.
Finally, learning to sell yourself isn't easy but it's no more difficult than learning to program. It's perfectly ok to mess up. Just keep trying and dont take it too serioisly - you will eventually get the hang of it.
Have you looked at sites like elance, odesk, and guru? You can find small projects there that pay. It could be a good way to get some momentum back. You may have to apply for a bunch of projects to get your first assignment, but don't get discouraged. You have talent. Whatever experience is lacking on your profile, just add your test scores etc.
You mention several different ways that your confidence is low. Let me tell you a secret: the rest of us feel the same way, just that we may have managed to ignore it a little better.
Finally, learning to sell yourself isn't easy but it's no more difficult than learning to program. It's perfectly ok to mess up. Just keep trying and dont take it too serioisly - you will eventually get the hang of it.
Do you have any coworkers that you got along with at your previous jobs? If so, go on LinkedIn, look them up, ask them to connect, leave a positive review for them, ask them to do the same for you. If this process is completed successfully, send a personal message to them, "hey, I just figured I'd check in.. enjoyed working with you blah blah blah... hey, I'd be happy to give you a reference anytime, would you mind if I used you as a reference in the future, if so, could you give me your phone number just so I can keep it for when I may need it"?
That's all you need, I have used co-workers for references before and it works just fine most of the time, you don't necessarily have to have your superior give you a reference
That's all you need, I have used co-workers for references before and it works just fine most of the time, you don't necessarily have to have your superior give you a reference
I could get good coworker references from about 3-4 coworkers at my last programming job. I had one coworker even recommend me for a job at their current company, but I didn't pass their interview process, though they were only hiring for one position and said they wanted someone that was a perfect fit.
I guess I feel the gap in employment in tech is the bigger problem now (almost a year at this point).
That is reassuring to hear that not every employer is interested in a supervisor reference.
I guess I feel the gap in employment in tech is the bigger problem now (almost a year at this point).
That is reassuring to hear that not every employer is interested in a supervisor reference.
I had become almost completely out of touch with my already thin network, and was in essentially your same financial and employment situation. I got my current job because a recruiter was trawling LinkedIn.
Use it, it costs you nothing, and works while you're asleep.
You might try CraigsList, I've heard of people getting decent jobs that way.
Follow through on your unemployment, and any other benefits program you run across. Your job is to keep breathing until your job becomes a job.
Use it, it costs you nothing, and works while you're asleep.
You might try CraigsList, I've heard of people getting decent jobs that way.
Follow through on your unemployment, and any other benefits program you run across. Your job is to keep breathing until your job becomes a job.
Thanks. Your advice is really helpful. I'll see what I can do about making sure my LinkedIn is up-to-date and such.
Craigslist also sounds like a good possibility too!
I don't think I qualified at any point for unemployment since I resigned, or at least that's my understanding. I'll see what I can do about benefits programs, but a lot seem based on income alone, or need paperwork that takes a while to acquire (record of monthly expenses? not sure what would count as a valid record, or birth certificate, which I don't currently have a copy of). Wish there was someone I could meet with in person to work through these things, but I don't know of any walk-in clinics or anything to help people like this.
Craigslist also sounds like a good possibility too!
I don't think I qualified at any point for unemployment since I resigned, or at least that's my understanding. I'll see what I can do about benefits programs, but a lot seem based on income alone, or need paperwork that takes a while to acquire (record of monthly expenses? not sure what would count as a valid record, or birth certificate, which I don't currently have a copy of). Wish there was someone I could meet with in person to work through these things, but I don't know of any walk-in clinics or anything to help people like this.
"I don't think I qualified at any point for unemployment since I resigned"
Maybe. Apply anyway.
As for the paper work and all ... it's your job. Do it.
There's probably web sites for every agency that you want to deal with, start there.
Maybe. Apply anyway.
As for the paper work and all ... it's your job. Do it.
There's probably web sites for every agency that you want to deal with, start there.
Work on some open source projects, start your own, etc. They can be small, it doesn't really matter, but these are great for explaining gaps. I actually got a job where I spent a lot of time talking about an open source project I was working on (really just a personal project), one of the guys interviewing me seemed really interested in it so we spent our entire portion of the interview just talking about that.
If you are using dried beans and not instant rice you are not really suffering nutritionally. Not any worse than what most americans eat anyway.Do a google search.
Go to a soup kitchen for a meal every once in a while, if you feel guilty about it volunteer at a different one.
Get out of the house.
You have issues other than a job to worry about and going back to the same type of work you do not enjoy is not going to help.
Salvation Army, Red Cross or any 'decent church' should be able to direct and help you with social services.
Go to a soup kitchen for a meal every once in a while, if you feel guilty about it volunteer at a different one.
Get out of the house.
You have issues other than a job to worry about and going back to the same type of work you do not enjoy is not going to help.
Salvation Army, Red Cross or any 'decent church' should be able to direct and help you with social services.
I mean the works alright. It doesn't suck. But work is work, and it's never been a reasonable thing for me to do one thing every possible moment and feel happy and balanced.
Trust me job and money is my biggest worry, and there's not many that are bigger than that. I'll leave the existential stuff until after I have the necessities taken care of.
Good to know the nutrition might not be that bad, at least relatively. ;-)
After reading some other threads on here I'm thinking that I should probably figure out about somewhere in the city to house in so that the car isn't an issue. I live out in the boonies right now, so soup kitchen would be a commute and maybe cost more than the actual food.
Trust me job and money is my biggest worry, and there's not many that are bigger than that. I'll leave the existential stuff until after I have the necessities taken care of.
Good to know the nutrition might not be that bad, at least relatively. ;-)
After reading some other threads on here I'm thinking that I should probably figure out about somewhere in the city to house in so that the car isn't an issue. I live out in the boonies right now, so soup kitchen would be a commute and maybe cost more than the actual food.
Just a suggestion. Have you thought about freelancing? I've seen threads here where freelancers seem to be able to make a decent amount, provided they know the right technology and spend some time carving out a niche / getting to know clients. Maybe you can try searching for those threads and see what technologies are in demand?
Freelancing could be something you try to get into while looking for a job. And it would also be a way to build your resume.
Freelancing could be something you try to get into while looking for a job. And it would also be a way to build your resume.
That's maybe a route I could take. I guess I always felt to freelance you had to be really good at selling yourself though, that there was a lot of competition, and I'm probably not the greatest at that.
I do have some pretty marketable skills: a fair amount of experience in PHP, Rails, Javascript, SQL, HTML / CSS.
I'd have no idea how to go about getting the first few clients though.
I do have some pretty marketable skills: a fair amount of experience in PHP, Rails, Javascript, SQL, HTML / CSS.
I'd have no idea how to go about getting the first few clients though.
Spring is coming, which is really helpful. Try to get out and do things. It's really hard when you're poor, but at least get out and enjoy the natural part of the universe. Even a walk through the neighborhood looking at flowers is better than a day on the couch.
Build something, to help keep your spirits up and your brain engaged. It doesn't matter what, doesn't matter how large or small. Small might even be better. Just build something.
Build something, to help keep your spirits up and your brain engaged. It doesn't matter what, doesn't matter how large or small. Small might even be better. Just build something.
Thanks. I do try and enjoy cheaper things when I can. Nothing too active though, as that's more calories and higher food expenses (kidding, but only slightly ;-) )
"Programming has never been a strong passion of mine", if you look at the real successful people--the people that are happy, they do things that they are passionate about. If you're not passionate about programming or being a hacker--why put yourself through it? What ARE you passionate about?
I'm doing it because I can make a living that way. I'm sure that's why most people do their jobs. Not everyone does what they dream of, because society doesn't value all contributions equally, and some not at all.
Helping poor people with odd jobs and cleaning is actually something I'm passionate about, but it's also a good way to be pretty poor and destitute yourself.
Helping poor people with odd jobs and cleaning is actually something I'm passionate about, but it's also a good way to be pretty poor and destitute yourself.
buy / borrow these books, and work through them
(http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mind-Over-Mood-Change-Changing/dp/08...)
(http://www.amazon.co.uk/Overcoming-Anxiety-Helen-Kennerley/d...)
Find a friend to help give you a poke now and again.
Here's an Australian website that is often recommended.
(http://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome)
A few weeks work will drastically reduce anxiety.
{Start-up idea: MoodGym but better.)
(http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mind-Over-Mood-Change-Changing/dp/08...)
(http://www.amazon.co.uk/Overcoming-Anxiety-Helen-Kennerley/d...)
Find a friend to help give you a poke now and again.
Here's an Australian website that is often recommended.
(http://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome)
A few weeks work will drastically reduce anxiety.
{Start-up idea: MoodGym but better.)
Anxiety is my least worry. I don't want to get caught up in some sort of meta-anxiety about my anxiety. Once I'm done securing a more stable job then I'll see what I can do to fix the anxiety. :-)
You might contact a contracting / consulting firm. Let them sell you.
I don't know where to find them. Can you direct me anywhere? I know basically nothing about this.
I Googled "denver software consulting" (without the quotes) and saw some decent results. Here are a couple:
http://www.righttimeconsulting.com/career-opportunities/
http://denversoftwarepeople.com/
http://www.righttimeconsulting.com/career-opportunities/
http://denversoftwarepeople.com/
You could post up your LN / resume link in your HN profile. Indeed trawls contract jobs well:
http://www.indeed.com/q-Software-Engineer-Contract-l-Denver,...
There is a supposed lack of developers in Denver. Good advice in this thread, wish you well, and eventually, if programming is not your thing, transition into client relations, sales engineer (maybe not your thing re: anxiety), Jr Product Manager, etc.
There is a supposed lack of developers in Denver. Good advice in this thread, wish you well, and eventually, if programming is not your thing, transition into client relations, sales engineer (maybe not your thing re: anxiety), Jr Product Manager, etc.
Thank you this is very helpful.
Thanks. Didn't mean to send anybody off on a LMGTFY quest but i do appreciate it.
I can't give any advice other than the obvious, keep your skills sharp and never stop looking for work. If your parents can't help you financially, ask them to help you look for work and let you know if they hear of anything. Breaking into the programming industry is extremely difficult, but you have not failed as long as you keep trying.
On that note, if anyone in the Sonoma-Marin-Napa area is hiring entry-level coders or IT staff, I'm looking for work.
On that note, if anyone in the Sonoma-Marin-Napa area is hiring entry-level coders or IT staff, I'm looking for work.
I graduated from a state university in 2009 with a degree in Computer Science. I graduated with honors and a 3.81 gpa. My gpa could've been a lot higher, but I struggled with untreated clinical-level anxiety throughout school which lead to severe procrastination or simply not turning in certain projects. I got a 1520 on my SATs, was a National Merit Scholar and an IB (International Baccalaureate) graduate. Although I never went through with applying to grad school I got a 1480 on my GREs with a perfect quant score.
Now I'm aware that being a good test-taker doesn't entitle me to anything, and if anything I'm more aware than anyone else how test-taking skills or academic success don't really apply to real-life success. I currently clean houses for a living, and am barely scraping by on that. Recently I lost one of my clients for unforeseen reasons, and that put me back in a risky situation just as far as getting by. I can still pay bills and rent, but my food and gas budgets are really restricted. I'm basically eating beans and rice and not doing so well nutritionally, which has been especially apparent these past few weeks as I've had a cold that doesn't seem to be getting any better.
I am also without health insurance. May of last year was the last time I was employed at a job that provided health insurance, and after about 4 months my savings dwindled to where I couldn't afford to make COBRA payments anymore. This wouldn't be such an issue, but I also have anxiety issues that have gone untreated for a while, especially after I decided to cut back on taking some medication I was previously prescribed due to not being able to meet the monthly costs.
I held a programming job back in May, one that I had for 2 1/2 years before finally resigning. I worked at the University I graduated from helping with a research project. When I graduated in December 2008, most of the companies I had spend the past few months interviewing for had put a stop to their hiring programs, and the job I ended up taking was the only offer extended to me. This would have been fine, but over time and especially towards the end I had a great deal of trouble at that job. It would probably be unfair to call my boss emotionally abusive, but the lack of any praise, the high level of criticism, the lack of any process, the expectation of constant overtime, constant coworker turnover, left me extremely burnt out by the time I left that job. That was in May of 2011.
Besides the fact that my boss continually trash-talked on my predecessor, my boss was infuriated with me for resigning when I did (burn-out hit me really hard and I gave short notice after my productivity dropped and my sleeping habits and punctuality became erratic, and so I thought I was actually doing the responsible thing by resigning since I no longer felt competent).
So anyways with my last job since I left I've had a high level of anxiety that any new job I apply for I have basically had no positive supervisor references. Since I left my last job I have applied for a handful of positions, but with no positive results and a sense that grew over time that I was unemployable due to my mixed work history, and my increasing interval of unemployment (at least in tech). Thank goodness a close friend of mine showed me how to clean houses and passed along clients to me, or I might have been even more thoroughly convinced of how unemployable and worthless I was.
Programming has never been a strong passion of mine, though I am fond of tech and read HN on a daily basis. I think I'm pretty decent at programming simply from being quick to learn new skills and learn from my mistakes, but I've never felt a passion to devote large chunks of my free time to it. I don't have a strong interest in doing personal projects any more than an accountant might crunch numbers just for fun on the weekend. I'm very much a people person too, and if I don't spend time socializing away from the screen in my free time I get depressed and generally unmotivated about a lot of things. I know this automatically puts me on a lower rung when hiring for programming talent, since I don't have any open source projects to show off, or have any number of puzzle solutions memorized for easy pseudo-coding during an interview, but I'd hope that this wouldn't make me unemployable.
I've also been pretty content to move away from the tech field, but since I also have a fairly significant amount of credit card debt which I acquiring during unemployment, after my savings ran out, but before I was making regular income, it's extremely hard for me to pay my bills with the generally low-paying work that I'm doing now (well at least after factoring in lots of unpayed commute time, and limited hours).
And paradoxically it seems to take a not insubstantial amount of money to file a successful case for unemployment, which I'd find pretty funny if it wasn't so depressing. Also low-income health assistance programs, food stamps, etc. can carry a pretty daunting set of requirements and lengthy waiting periods, both of which aren't so great for someone dealing with anxiety and situational depression, and also in need of more immediate assistance. I've tried my best to search for some sort of social work assistance, just for some help sorting through my options and figuring out what steps I need to take to apply, with no luck.
I've worked out I need to make $25k a year after taxes to cover credit card bills, living expenses, and have some sort of small savings (heaven forbid my car ever break down or some other unknown expense come up anytime soon, since I have no way to pay for it). This would be peanuts for any decent-paying career-type job, but it's quite depressing how far above the minimum wage this ends up being, and how far out of reach it might be for anyone with a not-so-stellar resume.
Family is no help right now, as they just don't have the resources to help considering their own financial and medical issues. Not every acquaintance I know is aware of my tough financial situation, due to embarrassment on my part, but I haven't had any luck in exploring opportunities the other 50% have proposed, because they are few and far between and the few that actually existed haven't panned out (I live in the Denver / Boulder area by the way, so I'm not sure if it's just the locale, or who I know or what, but networking hasn't made much of a difference)
So I don't mean to just dump some sob story on HN, or ask for handouts or anything. I'd really just like some advice on what to do. I admit I haven't been the most proactive at doing every thing I could possibly do to break back into the middle class, but believe it or not both a bad reference-less first work experience, unemployment, constant financial worry, etc. can feel a bit hopeless sometimes. And sometimes I'll think I'm making some progress improving at least financially, and then I lose a client the same month I have to make the car insurance payment and things seem even worse.
I'm not asking for advice on how to make myself a candidate to break into the top tech companies, or even get a starting position making the $70k+ a year that a lot of soon-to-be graduates seem to take for granted, even after the financial collapse. My next job doesn't have to be stimulating or glamorous. I don't have any travel money or even extra gas money, which I'm sure complicates things. I'd like to hope that even given the current constraints, that maybe there's still some way I can fix my employment situation and not have to worry if I can pay my bills for the month or if I have enough money to buy fruits and veggies.
So I guess my question to HN is basically, what's a destitute hacker to do?