Ask HN: Can you get into engineering management without being a senior?
1 comments
We hope not - there's actually a reason that in functional companies management is promoted from engineering. Anyone managing engineers or scientists needs a deep knowledge of the problem field - if they don't they will inevitable slide into cargo-culting, technological debt will build up, and any politically savvy engineer will keep their mouth shut. If they speak up they will be fired, and they are not paid to fix up management cluelessness and deficiencies in company culture.
Awful engineers who are people people are not adequate management material. The experience from the 18th and 19th century Royal Navy (that's institutional psychology on steroids) is that sailors will put up with anything, except favouritism and incompetence. Inhumane treatment will not provoke a mutiny but lack of navigational skills or poor seamanship will.
Sorry, buddy!
Awful engineers who are people people are not adequate management material. The experience from the 18th and 19th century Royal Navy (that's institutional psychology on steroids) is that sailors will put up with anything, except favouritism and incompetence. Inhumane treatment will not provoke a mutiny but lack of navigational skills or poor seamanship will.
Sorry, buddy!
Interesting - I've seen quite the opposite. That isn't to doubt your observation/experience, of course.
I've seen extremely competent technical managers be utterly unable to manage humans and try and impose their own technical decisions on those who are more than capable of making them themselves - all at the expense of what I would consider to be the 'real' management work.
Additionally, "Awful engineers who are people people are not adequate management material." - nobody made mention of awful engineering in my question and I would suggest I am far from that.
I've seen extremely competent technical managers be utterly unable to manage humans and try and impose their own technical decisions on those who are more than capable of making them themselves - all at the expense of what I would consider to be the 'real' management work.
Additionally, "Awful engineers who are people people are not adequate management material." - nobody made mention of awful engineering in my question and I would suggest I am far from that.
impose their own technical decisions on those who are more than capable of making them themselves
Consensus-building is a major part of management, of course. Someone who can't do that shouldn't be managing. That said, now imagine a technologically clueless manager impose their own misconceptions on a team of experienced engineers, such doesn't go well for long. It's worse if the workplace is strictly hierarchical, as US workplaces will be.
Moving from title-inflated midlevel engineering to management just isn't a good idea. Three years isn't enough - last week I actually interviewed for a laboratory management position at a certain institution where they were quite adamant that they were looking for perhaps 10 or 15 years experience, otherwise you cannot talk to research directors at eye level. The place is large, most of the work will be delegation and directing people. If they decide to extend an offer then the cup comes to me - facility management or people management, it's going to be a tough decision. The fact that the institution is self-aware enough to insist on that level of experience speaks in their favour, of course.
Consensus-building is a major part of management, of course. Someone who can't do that shouldn't be managing. That said, now imagine a technologically clueless manager impose their own misconceptions on a team of experienced engineers, such doesn't go well for long. It's worse if the workplace is strictly hierarchical, as US workplaces will be.
Moving from title-inflated midlevel engineering to management just isn't a good idea. Three years isn't enough - last week I actually interviewed for a laboratory management position at a certain institution where they were quite adamant that they were looking for perhaps 10 or 15 years experience, otherwise you cannot talk to research directors at eye level. The place is large, most of the work will be delegation and directing people. If they decide to extend an offer then the cup comes to me - facility management or people management, it's going to be a tough decision. The fact that the institution is self-aware enough to insist on that level of experience speaks in their favour, of course.
Again, interesting and useful points - thanks.
I think the tone is a little sad, but I suppose it is hackernews after all!
I appreciate the input.
I think the tone is a little sad, but I suppose it is hackernews after all!
I appreciate the input.
I started a little late in engineering, getting my firs job aged 29. I became a mid-level engineer a year later and have been there for two years.
I am most definitely soon on my way to a senior engineer position but I'm not convinced that is the role I would like to take.
My previous career was very 'people' focussed and included a lot of people and project management. As much as I enjoy the pure programming side, I would like to spend more time on the human and management side of things.
In my current and previous companies, the hierarchies were well defined: you'd get to senior engineering role and then move up to a management role and continue onwards. I imagine a number of those people never really wanted to manage but I suppose 'progression' beckons.
Does anybody have any experience of jumping this stage? I have proven management and people skills that are fairly rare in my current industry - or should I plough on through the senior engineering stage to understand the industry as a whole more?
UK based, if that is of importance.
Thanks!