Mr. Benioff, Tear Down That Wall(blogs.zoho.com)
blogs.zoho.com
Mr. Benioff, Tear Down That Wall
http://blogs.zoho.com/uncategorized/mr-benioff-tear-down-that-wall/
7 comments
Keep up the great work, Sridhar Vembu. Many of us are rooting for you and Zoho. Your example of a bootstrapped startup successfully taking on the largest players in the industry is inspiring. I think Zoho is one of the most under-appreciated business stories of 2008.
This may be the most relevant hacker news I have seen all day. If it's not true, I expect a strong response back. And if it is true, I hope there is a good explanation or things change quickly.
I'd like to hear the other side of the story as well. I certainly hope it's not true.
As a developer I'm worried that these open web platforms are not so open. I worry that my data will be hijacked, that my apps will be locked to one vendor, that my provider might be my main competitor.
As a developer I'm worried that these open web platforms are not so open. I worry that my data will be hijacked, that my apps will be locked to one vendor, that my provider might be my main competitor.
Alas, everything I wrote is true, it exactly happened the way I describe in my post. To be honest, I haven't seen a platform with as myopic a strategy as Salesforce, not from Microsoft, not from Google, not from Facebook, not by a long shot, so their situation is a bit unique.
In fact, several months after those events happened, there were people on their team who were uncomfortable with Benioff's stance. They tried to get him to change his mind, to no avail - a second set of interactions happened where one of their execs tried to get us in to Force.com, but he was vetoed by Benioff himself much to his disappointment and frustration (he ended up leaving Salesforce, so he won't be impacted when I say this). It was only after all that happened that I decided to go public with this.
We still stand ready to integrate our suite, just as we do with Facebook, with Google single sign-on and so on. The key question stands: would they let Zoho play in their ecosystem? If not what is the meaning of being "open"?
After all, Benioff compares Salesforce's "openness" with Microsoft, but consider the contrast. AdventNet, the parent company of Zoho, sells most of its software on the Windows platform (like most software companies do, no surprise there). We didn't have to seek permission from Microsoft to create applications on Windows. I don't know the terms, but I bet Microsoft would let us play on the Azure cloud platform, because they know a thing or two about empowering third party developers. Google lets us offer their users the option to sign-in to Zoho using their Google ID. Google lets us integrate Gears for the offline version - they even gave us publicity when we finished the integration. Google APIs are open to any and all vendors, including Zoho, on equal terms.
In fact, several months after those events happened, there were people on their team who were uncomfortable with Benioff's stance. They tried to get him to change his mind, to no avail - a second set of interactions happened where one of their execs tried to get us in to Force.com, but he was vetoed by Benioff himself much to his disappointment and frustration (he ended up leaving Salesforce, so he won't be impacted when I say this). It was only after all that happened that I decided to go public with this.
We still stand ready to integrate our suite, just as we do with Facebook, with Google single sign-on and so on. The key question stands: would they let Zoho play in their ecosystem? If not what is the meaning of being "open"?
After all, Benioff compares Salesforce's "openness" with Microsoft, but consider the contrast. AdventNet, the parent company of Zoho, sells most of its software on the Windows platform (like most software companies do, no surprise there). We didn't have to seek permission from Microsoft to create applications on Windows. I don't know the terms, but I bet Microsoft would let us play on the Azure cloud platform, because they know a thing or two about empowering third party developers. Google lets us offer their users the option to sign-in to Zoho using their Google ID. Google lets us integrate Gears for the offline version - they even gave us publicity when we finished the integration. Google APIs are open to any and all vendors, including Zoho, on equal terms.
Thank you for having the courage to hold Benioff personally accountable. I agree with your attitude and views. If your development HQ wasn't in India, I'd be asking you for a job.
"If your development HQ wasn't in India"
Pft...lame excuse... :^)
Pft...lame excuse... :^)
Much that i appreciate Zoho, not sure it is a great idea to target specific individuals (especially those part of the competition). And there could have been better ways to may be highlight what apparently looks like a Salesforce's lock-in strategy.
When it is a single person responsible, why not? He is also responsible to NYSE:CRM shareholders, and scaring future partners away is not an alignment with a successful platform strategy.
What are the written Terms and Conditions of Zoho integration with AppExchange?
Thanks folks, as a Hacker News regular, I am truly honored to have this featured here.
To address lhorn, this post was written and made it to HN when our India folks were asleep (13.5 hour time difference). And it may be hard for you to accept, but our company doesn't operate that way - the kind of "astro-turfing" you describe. I post at least once a week on Zoho blogs, and this is probably the second time ever anything made it to HN. And it was not a personal rant - it is about a major software-as-a-service vendor who acts in ways totally contrary to their public posturing. Keep in mind, they invited us to be there on AppX, and we did the integration work with their support. As the CEO of Zoho, I deal with hundreds of companies, large and small, in relationships that succeed and in relationships that fail to materialize. What happened with Salesforce was unusual enough to warrant calling out - and should be a cautionary tale for other companies.
To address lhorn, this post was written and made it to HN when our India folks were asleep (13.5 hour time difference). And it may be hard for you to accept, but our company doesn't operate that way - the kind of "astro-turfing" you describe. I post at least once a week on Zoho blogs, and this is probably the second time ever anything made it to HN. And it was not a personal rant - it is about a major software-as-a-service vendor who acts in ways totally contrary to their public posturing. Keep in mind, they invited us to be there on AppX, and we did the integration work with their support. As the CEO of Zoho, I deal with hundreds of companies, large and small, in relationships that succeed and in relationships that fail to materialize. What happened with Salesforce was unusual enough to warrant calling out - and should be a cautionary tale for other companies.
That's really interesting- I, too, had flagged Salesforce as an 'open' company. Their API is comparatively good, and the AppExchange is virtually unparalleled in terms of openness to third parties.
I wonder if this is something specific to Zoho, or if they're taking an anticompetitive stance in general.
I wonder if this is something specific to Zoho, or if they're taking an anticompetitive stance in general.
One of the important lessons in Tech is not to moon the Giant. Lot of things are personal in Business, just ask Netscape.
63 points for these "news"? A public rant about a competitor is "news" here? And how ethical is it to blog about such things? I've never seen a CEO of a company publicly bitching about how badly competitors treat him. Jesus I know for sure to never approach Zoho with a business proposal in fear of turning any potential dispute into a dirty laundry hanging in public.
And why is it even supposed to be interesting for anyone outside of Zoho/Salesforce? I wish we could see IP addresses of people who voted this stuff up: I wonder what percentage of originated from India.
Sridhar, here is an idea for you: write a post titled "Zoho shall pay no taxes" and make your workers vote it up on every public news site.
63 points for these "news"? A public rant about a competitor is "news" here? And how ethical is it to blog about such things? I've never seen a CEO of a company publicly bitching about how badly competitors treat him. Jesus I know for sure to never approach Zoho with a business proposal in fear of turning any potential dispute into a dirty laundry hanging in public.
And why is it even supposed to be interesting for anyone outside of Zoho/Salesforce? I wish we could see IP addresses of people who voted this stuff up: I wonder what percentage of originated from India.
Sridhar, here is an idea for you: write a post titled "Zoho shall pay no taxes" and make your workers vote it up on every public news site.
And why is it even supposed to be interesting for anyone outside of Zoho/Salesforce? I wish we could see IP addresses of people who voted this stuff up: I wonder what percentage of originated from India.
Sridhar, here is an idea for you: write a post titled "Zoho shall pay no taxes" and make your workers vote it up on every public news site.
If this continues to be voted down...will it turn the same gray as the background?
I'm pretty sure I've seen comments blend in completely at about the -50 mark. I don't have a link offhand though.
I actually find the lightening of the text attracts me to it. I'm always curious to see what made a comment so controversial / bad.