Ask HN: Is now the right time to ask for a raise?
As one of the only people left who knows how anything works, I feel like my leverage is very high right now to get paid better. Should I ask for a raise now or just be grateful I still have a job?
13 comments
It's always a good time to ask. Worse they can say is no.
Any employer who retaliates is not worth working for anyway!
Any employer who retaliates is not worth working for anyway!
You put it much more succinctly than the response I was writing.
The "hostage" approach rarely goes well. People tend to have a thing against hagglers, especially those who have the keys to everything. You may be irreplaceable now, and you'll likely get your raise, but asking for one in such a manner will highlight to management why that's a high priority problem.
You're likely to get a raise without asking in most companies. The bureaucratic levels system is designed as a counter to people forcing salaries beyond their ability. But like someone said, you know your team better than us.
You're likely to get a raise without asking in most companies. The bureaucratic levels system is designed as a counter to people forcing salaries beyond their ability. But like someone said, you know your team better than us.
There are a few “accepted” ways of asking this.
First, if you are truly the linchpin, you’re likely working over/above your position. So make the case that you are a rank N employee doing N+1 work.
Alternatively, try the market adjustment route: you are doing more than your role, and you’re already being underpaid for that role.
As a manager IDGAF about these typical asks for raises. It’s part of the job. What I do care about is the “pay me +X or I leave” games - those suck to deal with and are often a card you can play once.
But while we are all worried about job security, things are extra tight for employers right now: if I lose one of my employees, it’s very likely that I’d face an uphill fight to hire someone to replace them because my boss / her boss would claim that as a win for their budget. So you do have some room to maneuver here.
First, if you are truly the linchpin, you’re likely working over/above your position. So make the case that you are a rank N employee doing N+1 work.
Alternatively, try the market adjustment route: you are doing more than your role, and you’re already being underpaid for that role.
As a manager IDGAF about these typical asks for raises. It’s part of the job. What I do care about is the “pay me +X or I leave” games - those suck to deal with and are often a card you can play once.
But while we are all worried about job security, things are extra tight for employers right now: if I lose one of my employees, it’s very likely that I’d face an uphill fight to hire someone to replace them because my boss / her boss would claim that as a win for their budget. So you do have some room to maneuver here.
How would you feel about a proposal like, "Because of X,Y, and Z, I believe that my current position doesn't match the value I provide to the company. My opinion is that a good method to fix this would be to promote me to Sr. (current position) or (current position roman numerals +i) and increase my salary accordingly."?
You should be better able to judge your management and their inclinations than HN folks who don't even know which company you are talking about.
"one of the only people" implies that you are not alone with the extensive knowledge. If they fired you could they still continue? Are the management even smart enough to know how much they don't know? or how vulnerable they are?
I have had many bad experiences with managers who could consider your demands for a raise as a form of ransom. Consider @jerryu's suggestion.
"one of the only people" implies that you are not alone with the extensive knowledge. If they fired you could they still continue? Are the management even smart enough to know how much they don't know? or how vulnerable they are?
I have had many bad experiences with managers who could consider your demands for a raise as a form of ransom. Consider @jerryu's suggestion.
I have a very simple policy. When I want money, I leave and find a new job. It's usually never the reason I look for a new job, but if the money I am making is bothering me, it means there's either problems with the people or the work.
I once wrote about this, and FWIW, a few people have found it interesting
https://stonecharioteer.com/posts/2022/two-of-three-rule.htm...
My two are: people and pay. When pay begins to feel like it sucks, it usually means I'm fed up of the people.
I once wrote about this, and FWIW, a few people have found it interesting
https://stonecharioteer.com/posts/2022/two-of-three-rule.htm...
My two are: people and pay. When pay begins to feel like it sucks, it usually means I'm fed up of the people.
Dunno if I'd have the guts to say "pay me more because I'm all you have left". I do have no problem asking my manager if I'm on track for advancement, which is basically asking "will I get more money soon?" and who knows, maybe asking that will prompt them to address the freed up salaries instead of you. Everyone is going to have a different answer to this question so just do whatever feels right. If you weren't selected for layoffs you were selected to NOT be let go, so you probably won't lose your job. Or you will. Good luck hahaa
> Dunno if I'd have the guts to say "pay me more because I'm all you have left"
I'm not sure how common this is, but retention bonuses for people who weren't made redundant are definitely a thing. It's just a nicer way of phrasing the same thing. And totally a fair thing to ask for. One way to justify it would be higher workload and/or more responsibilities.
I'm not sure how common this is, but retention bonuses for people who weren't made redundant are definitely a thing. It's just a nicer way of phrasing the same thing. And totally a fair thing to ask for. One way to justify it would be higher workload and/or more responsibilities.
If you have inside information that grants you leverage, the time is obviously now before the leverage goes away.
Not sure if you are in tech, but if you are, the tech job market is at an interesting point right now. Cost of labor is likely going to be trending down as companies stop paying top % for engineers, FAANG stops hoarding talent, and more people enter the job market from layoffs.
If you are able to shop around for a job and get a few offers, that will put you in a better position to negotiate. Just be ok jumping to one of those offers if you don’t get the raise.
Not sure if you are in tech, but if you are, the tech job market is at an interesting point right now. Cost of labor is likely going to be trending down as companies stop paying top % for engineers, FAANG stops hoarding talent, and more people enter the job market from layoffs.
If you are able to shop around for a job and get a few offers, that will put you in a better position to negotiate. Just be ok jumping to one of those offers if you don’t get the raise.
You should have a plan B. You cannot just go and say "I deserve a raise", because even if you do deserve it, your employer can still say "no". Given that scenario, what are you going to do? So, whenever it comes to "I need more money", my strategy is:
- search for another job
- be confident about 1 or 2 offers (maybe even go ahead and do a couple of interviews to be even more confident about your chances to switch jobs)
- ask for a raise as you would usually do (you don't need to mention you may switch jobs)
- search for another job
- be confident about 1 or 2 offers (maybe even go ahead and do a couple of interviews to be even more confident about your chances to switch jobs)
- ask for a raise as you would usually do (you don't need to mention you may switch jobs)
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You have nothing to lose. If you're getting your paycheck, they have money to spend. Smart employers will give you an automatic raise just based on the threat of you leaving due to the cost of getting a new hire and getting them ramped up.
If you deserve a raise the time is always right to ask.
If you don't the time is never right.
Deserve is not the same as need, or want though.
Deserve is not the same as need, or want though.
I think it really depends on what size company you work in and how they're doing.
What happens if they say no?
Well, I suppose I should have something lined up before asking.
Maybe or maybe not.
It depends on your delivery and their attitude. I’ve been asked several times to give people raises. If they were worth it, I honored it. If not, I either told them to go get an offer somewhere and bring it back and I would match it, or that the time wasn’t right.
Hopefully you work for mature people who would see this as an opportunity for a discussion.
It depends on your delivery and their attitude. I’ve been asked several times to give people raises. If they were worth it, I honored it. If not, I either told them to go get an offer somewhere and bring it back and I would match it, or that the time wasn’t right.
Hopefully you work for mature people who would see this as an opportunity for a discussion.
What was the ratio of folks who were told to get an offer somewhere who actually brought it back and were matched/beaten, to those who took that offer and walked? Maybe it's my general caution around "try not to get fired" but on the receiving end I'd probably parse such a line as a gentle invitation to leave and that I should probably just take said offer and go.
I'm curious also. Granted, the reasoning was that the employee wasn't perceived as being worth a raise, but inviting them to interview elsewhere might give the impression that they aren't valued even at their existing salary.
Is the intent of such an approach to encourage those employees to take the other offer since it was already stated that they aren't perceived as worthy of a raise in their existing position? Why would coming back with a higher offer make them more valuable after they were basically already told no? Doesn't that seem a bit adversarial? It kind of puts the employee in an adversarial position as well, since if they really want the raise they would have to come back with a sort of "I told you so" proof that others value them more. How does that affect the working relationship?
Is the intent of such an approach to encourage those employees to take the other offer since it was already stated that they aren't perceived as worthy of a raise in their existing position? Why would coming back with a higher offer make them more valuable after they were basically already told no? Doesn't that seem a bit adversarial? It kind of puts the employee in an adversarial position as well, since if they really want the raise they would have to come back with a sort of "I told you so" proof that others value them more. How does that affect the working relationship?
Sometimes it’s just politics. I manage software engineers and am responsible for advocating for their raises.
Occasionally the answer from above will be “no” because budgets are tight and it’s a bad time to be handing out money, but if I have an offer to match in hand it simply gets more attention.
I have advised my direct reports to go get an offer if they could, and it was not because I wanted them to leave. I wanted them to have the best chance at getting that raise they wanted.
I also want them to do the best thing for themselves, so if they have an offer and I can’t match it, good for them they should take it. For them it’s win/win, it only sucks for me if I can’t match.
Occasionally the answer from above will be “no” because budgets are tight and it’s a bad time to be handing out money, but if I have an offer to match in hand it simply gets more attention.
I have advised my direct reports to go get an offer if they could, and it was not because I wanted them to leave. I wanted them to have the best chance at getting that raise they wanted.
I also want them to do the best thing for themselves, so if they have an offer and I can’t match it, good for them they should take it. For them it’s win/win, it only sucks for me if I can’t match.
Never. No one ever took me up on the offer.
Sometimes you just have employees constantly asking for an out-of-cycle raise or promotion. And sometimes they are mediocre but have an inflated perception of their abilities or contributions.
Pay should reflect personal contributions and market conditions. If they think they are worth some percentage above a normal engineer’s salary based on their location, they need to do the research and convince me.
The best engineers I work with get a raise or promotion any opportunity that I can, even without asking.
Sometimes you just have employees constantly asking for an out-of-cycle raise or promotion. And sometimes they are mediocre but have an inflated perception of their abilities or contributions.
Pay should reflect personal contributions and market conditions. If they think they are worth some percentage above a normal engineer’s salary based on their location, they need to do the research and convince me.
The best engineers I work with get a raise or promotion any opportunity that I can, even without asking.