Ask HN: How to handle a layoff when I already planning on leaving?
27 comments
There is no "leaving on very good terms." There's either "eligible for rehire" or not. That's it. Yes, for that particular manager in his/her particular mood, you might be this great guy who will be missed, but no one else will give a rat's ass.
If you think you have a good shot at getting severance out of it, tell them you're leaving. Otherwise, keep quiet and leave when you have a new job lined up. But why would they give you severance if you're going to leave of your own accord anyway?
If you think you have a good shot at getting severance out of it, tell them you're leaving. Otherwise, keep quiet and leave when you have a new job lined up. But why would they give you severance if you're going to leave of your own accord anyway?
You can always approach HR and say you can’t continue in your role because reasons. Ask about possible next steps. You have a good chance they’ll make you some kind of severance offer in exchange for a general release.
Maybe you could strike a deal to be laid off instead of the 2 directs. Very hard thing to navigate though, especially if they were to say no
> Do you think there is anything to gain by being transparent with my boss about my intent to leave?
No. Keep doing your job, move when you find another.
No. Keep doing your job, move when you find another.
I think it's easier to get a new job if you have a job, otherwise they can low-ball you because you look more desperate
in some companies they offer you to voluntarily leave and get severance package so that others can be saved. Check if this is available in your company.
What is there to negotiate, you're leaving.
Make a stand, tell your team you are resigning. Worst case, the other three members of your team resign as well, where does that leave the enterprise...
You could tell your boss you can't bring yourself to lay anyone off so you'll quit yourself. They give you severance, and promote someone from under you without laying anyone off because of the cost saving they'll make without you.
Win-win all round.
Win-win all round.
You can't know usually if your leaving will prevent the other layoffs. It could be the company still lays off part of your team and now you don't get the ability/punishment to have to pick them.
I love quitting a job, it puts the power in my hands. I'm fortunate to work as a dev and have almost infinite employment opportunities at the time. Is the same true for your team? It might be that some of them want to leave too, esp because of the severance.
An incredibly brave but potentially great thing would be to open up to your team about it. Maybe some of them would be happy to get severance, another is say having a baby and wants stability. Someone mentioned this on hacker news recently.
I love quitting a job, it puts the power in my hands. I'm fortunate to work as a dev and have almost infinite employment opportunities at the time. Is the same true for your team? It might be that some of them want to leave too, esp because of the severance.
An incredibly brave but potentially great thing would be to open up to your team about it. Maybe some of them would be happy to get severance, another is say having a baby and wants stability. Someone mentioned this on hacker news recently.
I'm not sure about the severance, you would certainly need to negotiate that. I did know a person who offered to take the layoff even though they were not slated to, and it worked out fine for them. They got the layoff severance, COBRA, etc. that you would normally not get if you quit. But it would be different in each situation.
If they are laying of people for financial reasons, they expect additional people to leave. So you won't necessarily save anyone by declaring that you are going to go, because that is already priced in.
If somebody quits, most companies’ next words won’t be, “Here’s your severance.”
You’re going to need to tell them, “I’m willing to quit in exchange for X.”
You’re going to need to tell them, “I’m willing to quit in exchange for X.”
I like the comments here. For me, I’d rather stay in good terms with teammates than with superiors, only because is unlikely to get a good referral or another offer from a superior after quitting, while it’s a lot more likely to get good recommendations from teammates.
I have probably 5 or 6 previous teammates that if I heard they were open for work and my company was hiring I’ll refer them in a heart beat because I’d love to with with them again!
I have probably 5 or 6 previous teammates that if I heard they were open for work and my company was hiring I’ll refer them in a heart beat because I’d love to with with them again!
It depends on your relationship with your boss and the general level of assholery in your company's leadership. In an ideal company, you could be open with your boss about your preference to be let go over some of your team. In a less ideal, but still sensible company, you could casually mention that you'd be willing to take a severance arrangement rather than cut into your more junior members and see if they'll consider it. A company is often interested in reducing its risk during layoffs and having someone willingly sign up for a package is less risky than fingering someone whose willingness is unknown (but presumed low).
In a company or boss that can't be trusted, keep your mouth shut and provide for your family and yourself. If you quit 3 weeks after the layoffs, so be it. They earned that lack of transparency through their prior actions.
In a company or boss that can't be trusted, keep your mouth shut and provide for your family and yourself. If you quit 3 weeks after the layoffs, so be it. They earned that lack of transparency through their prior actions.
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But you haven't left and there is reason for that. A better opportunity might not turn up for you until we start getting out of the recession.
Otherwise, if you are comfortable with quitting before securing the next thing for yourself, just do it if you think it will help one of your reports. At least it will help you clear your conscious.
Otherwise, if you are comfortable with quitting before securing the next thing for yourself, just do it if you think it will help one of your reports. At least it will help you clear your conscious.
A smart team doing layoffs will know there is bound to be attrition after an event. They are relying on it if they are smart.
They may even know they'll lose some of their most competent and have priced it in.
Feel no guilt for keeping your mouth shut. (and don't assume you can negotiate anything, especially if they aren't forward thinking.)
They may even know they'll lose some of their most competent and have priced it in.
Feel no guilt for keeping your mouth shut. (and don't assume you can negotiate anything, especially if they aren't forward thinking.)
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For what it’s worth, those are typical questions that would come up on https://softskills.audio/. I’d like to encourage you to submit [0] your question there, even though it likely won’t be picked up quickly enough to help you personally in your current situation.
[0] https://softskills.audio/ask/
[0] https://softskills.audio/ask/
I know it sounds cold but without knowing more about the company you work for my suggestion is to say nothing and start looking. Unless you have a new job lined up, all the papers signed, and a start date never tell your current company. At best they are happy for you, at worse they are vindictive and either fire you immediately (an no, unemployment is neither easy/simple nor is it much money normally) or make your life hell until you do leave.
There is also no guarantee that your team will be safe if you tell them you are leaving. They might decide to just get rid of the whole team and leave another team whole (instead of taking a pound of flesh from each team). Again, without knowing what your current company is like we can only speculate but tread carefully.
There is also no guarantee that your team will be safe if you tell them you are leaving. They might decide to just get rid of the whole team and leave another team whole (instead of taking a pound of flesh from each team). Again, without knowing what your current company is like we can only speculate but tread carefully.
I agree with this. I really cannot think of any situation where it would make sense or give a person any sort of advantage whatsoever to not just look out for themselves and make sure everything is in order before even mentioning to the company that you're looking at other opportunities. I'm surprised to see some other comments suggesting giving a heads up.
If you can feasibly get a severance package, it seems worth the risk
This is the right answer.
My only advice is to get out one way or another. I'd try to convince your boss to lay you off (yay severance) and keep the subordinates. Either way if you were looking and they were doing lay offs sounds like a depressing place to work. Get out as soon as you can.
Find a good job, lay off the best workers and take them with you.
Not sure if it helps, but let me share my experience.
At the company I'm working for, there is a hiring slowdown (that can turn into a hiring freeze), and the announcement felt like "the writing was on the wall" and I expect that things will get only worse as time goes by. It's a mobile team and I am worried that the whole team will be let go and the company go forward with web only.
I decided to look for another job, had some interviews, and I realized that most other options I am a good candidate for are not significantly better than what I have now.
I decided to improve my "whiteboard" interview skills, get some big wins at the current company to improve my resume, learn a new technology in my free time, improve my open source and public portfolio for another half year and try looking for a job again later.
My point is: do not assume that you'll easily find a better job in no time, especially if your current job is not that terrible.
I'd err on the side of caution and, first and foremost, protect myself: no disclaimers to either the bosses or coworkers.
At the company I'm working for, there is a hiring slowdown (that can turn into a hiring freeze), and the announcement felt like "the writing was on the wall" and I expect that things will get only worse as time goes by. It's a mobile team and I am worried that the whole team will be let go and the company go forward with web only.
I decided to look for another job, had some interviews, and I realized that most other options I am a good candidate for are not significantly better than what I have now.
I decided to improve my "whiteboard" interview skills, get some big wins at the current company to improve my resume, learn a new technology in my free time, improve my open source and public portfolio for another half year and try looking for a job again later.
My point is: do not assume that you'll easily find a better job in no time, especially if your current job is not that terrible.
I'd err on the side of caution and, first and foremost, protect myself: no disclaimers to either the bosses or coworkers.
I recently did a month of interviews and determined the same. Everyone is cargo culting everyone else why move for basically the same situation.
First, I think this is a pretty clear sign from the universe that it's time to go get that other offer.
If they are good people, it's okay to give extended notice of your desire to leave. A lot of places would love to have time to bring someone else up to speed and for you to wrap up what you're doing. It also means you have an easier time going to interviews and such and can use your current superiors as references. The only case where it is in their best interest to terminate you right away is if they are hemorrhaging and need to cut labor costs fast, but if that's the case your job isn't particularly safe as it is. I would suggest having a conversation with someone who would be a decision maker in such a scenario about long term vision to get a sense of how things would go down if you were to take this approach before taking the plunge.
If you think they might act out of spite, wait until you have an offer. If your giving notice would have prevented a layoff, odds are they're just going to try and rehire that person so it would at worst result in a few weeks of stress. You're not a dick for quitting after a layoff, they're dicks for mismanaging a company to the point they need to lay people off and not being good at determining who to lay off.
If they are good people, it's okay to give extended notice of your desire to leave. A lot of places would love to have time to bring someone else up to speed and for you to wrap up what you're doing. It also means you have an easier time going to interviews and such and can use your current superiors as references. The only case where it is in their best interest to terminate you right away is if they are hemorrhaging and need to cut labor costs fast, but if that's the case your job isn't particularly safe as it is. I would suggest having a conversation with someone who would be a decision maker in such a scenario about long term vision to get a sense of how things would go down if you were to take this approach before taking the plunge.
If you think they might act out of spite, wait until you have an offer. If your giving notice would have prevented a layoff, odds are they're just going to try and rehire that person so it would at worst result in a few weeks of stress. You're not a dick for quitting after a layoff, they're dicks for mismanaging a company to the point they need to lay people off and not being good at determining who to lay off.
Consider meeting with the VP of HR (not your HRBP) and tell them you’re open to negotiating an exit so the organization can save a headcount.
This is how two extremely talented mentors of mine left BigCorp jobs.
This is how two extremely talented mentors of mine left BigCorp jobs.
can you tell your boss that you want to get laid off as well ? I've seen this actually work.
You can get severance and try to find a job.
You can get severance and try to find a job.
You don’t get any advantage of informing proactively. You are not a martyr. Stay in your own boundaries.
It’s in your best interest to say nothing and keep looking for another job.
Otherwise you’ll probably be fired on the spot or laid off as they’re looking for cuts anyway.
Otherwise you’ll probably be fired on the spot or laid off as they’re looking for cuts anyway.
The issue is severance really varies. I've seen it at month per year of service, I've seen it at a week per year of service. I've seen caps of one month severance. For me personally it would make a difference if I got a big sum.
Make a suggestion up the chain to give remaining employees the option of a severance package. You can spin it as further cost savings, or a way to get rid of the non-believers. Then take the option yourself.
Offer to take voluntary redundancy?
OP wrote that they could be fired on the spot, they're not in the land of generous voluntary redundancy packages.
No they didn't, they wrote that they want to quit, and other people are being let go.
The organisation's looking for people to cut, which if you want to quit anyway is lucky - it suggest VR may be accepted (or it may be involuntary anyway if you wait).
The organisation's looking for people to cut, which if you want to quit anyway is lucky - it suggest VR may be accepted (or it may be involuntary anyway if you wait).
> Do you think there is anything to gain by being transparent with my boss about my intent to leave? I could be fired on the spot, but that doesn't leave me much worse off if I just quit
Getting fired is preferable to quitting as you get unemployment
I've been through several layoffs before, but this time is a little different. I have been very unhappy in the job, and have already been looking around for something new.
The default option is just to carry on until I actually have another offer in hand. However, it feels kinda bad to lay off teammates, only to quit myself several weeks later.
Do you think there is anything to gain by being transparent with my boss about my intent to leave? I could be fired on the spot, but that doesn't leave me much worse off if I just quit. Best case, I could negotiate my own severance, and/or leave on very good terms.
Any advice or experience from those who have been through similar would be appreciated!