Am I an idiot for wanting a dumber phone?(wired.com)
wired.com
Am I an idiot for wanting a dumber phone?
https://www.wired.com/story/am-i-an-idiot-for-wanting-a-dumber-phone/
36 comments
I'd like a phone that:
- Respects my privacy. It's not tracked or surveilled. Contacts and communications are not logged and recorded.
- Doesn't alert with spam calls and texts multiple times per day.
- Has days of batter and weeks of standby.
- Can provide an emergency data link ("tethering") for my other mobile devices when necessary.
- Avoids emissive displays. E-ink is rapidly becoming a strong preference for me.
- Hardware buttons.
- Folds away keyboard/touchpad. No butt-dialing.
- Physical headphone jack.
- Small pocketable format.
Nice-to-haves above and beyond that: notes/remiders, clock / timer / alarm, mapping / directions (with disableable / activate-only-when-needed GPS), and transit / travel information.
Almost all other substantive uses are far better applied to a larger format device --- probably a tethered e-ink tablet as a first option (8" -- 13"). I'd still like an e-ink keyboarded ultra-light laptop / notebook as well. I'll wait ...
I'm ... close ... to simply going in for a pager with very limited access (as in, nobody but top priorities can reach it), and I can reach back out via another option.
PSTN is dangerously near death, not just wireline / POTS but mobile as well.
- Respects my privacy. It's not tracked or surveilled. Contacts and communications are not logged and recorded.
- Doesn't alert with spam calls and texts multiple times per day.
- Has days of batter and weeks of standby.
- Can provide an emergency data link ("tethering") for my other mobile devices when necessary.
- Avoids emissive displays. E-ink is rapidly becoming a strong preference for me.
- Hardware buttons.
- Folds away keyboard/touchpad. No butt-dialing.
- Physical headphone jack.
- Small pocketable format.
Nice-to-haves above and beyond that: notes/remiders, clock / timer / alarm, mapping / directions (with disableable / activate-only-when-needed GPS), and transit / travel information.
Almost all other substantive uses are far better applied to a larger format device --- probably a tethered e-ink tablet as a first option (8" -- 13"). I'd still like an e-ink keyboarded ultra-light laptop / notebook as well. I'll wait ...
I'm ... close ... to simply going in for a pager with very limited access (as in, nobody but top priorities can reach it), and I can reach back out via another option.
PSTN is dangerously near death, not just wireline / POTS but mobile as well.
Hi! Android phone here.
- I deactivated notifications for most apps. If necessary, I setup in-app notifications (Discord notifies me about a new personal message, but not about a random post on the "general" channel)
- I don't use the facebook app, but I have a link to facebook.com on my icon screen, browsed firefox
- ublock origin extension for firefox
- if a random notification happens, long click on it allows deactivating the next ones from the same app
- I deactivated incoming email notifications. If I want to read my emails, I open the client. I guess it saves battery too.
- In France we have an app to detect spam or phishing calls. It can event prevent the phone ringing when detected as such.
- I deactivated notifications for most apps. If necessary, I setup in-app notifications (Discord notifies me about a new personal message, but not about a random post on the "general" channel)
- I don't use the facebook app, but I have a link to facebook.com on my icon screen, browsed firefox
- ublock origin extension for firefox
- if a random notification happens, long click on it allows deactivating the next ones from the same app
- I deactivated incoming email notifications. If I want to read my emails, I open the client. I guess it saves battery too.
- In France we have an app to detect spam or phishing calls. It can event prevent the phone ringing when detected as such.
Google Play Services, Google's Advertising ID, tower tracking, full access to contacts, call data, messages, and far more, are all failures and weaknesses of the present smartphone (including Android) environment.
At its core is the mobile phone data network itself, which provides sufficiently fine (and largely utilised) location tracking, vox activity, and Internet data usage tracking and association with a single device. The foundation is shit, no golden castle can be constructed on it.
Source: Android owner for nearly 15 years, infosec background, numerous exploits, data disclosures, white papers, etc.
https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/mobile-phones-location-trackin...
https://ssd.eff.org/en/playlist/privacy-breakdown-mobile-pho...
At its core is the mobile phone data network itself, which provides sufficiently fine (and largely utilised) location tracking, vox activity, and Internet data usage tracking and association with a single device. The foundation is shit, no golden castle can be constructed on it.
Source: Android owner for nearly 15 years, infosec background, numerous exploits, data disclosures, white papers, etc.
https://ssd.eff.org/en/module/mobile-phones-location-trackin...
https://ssd.eff.org/en/playlist/privacy-breakdown-mobile-pho...
> I think people just want phones that are just less addicting.
That's easy. Learn to type 120wpm. Going from 120wpm on a laptop to 30wpm on a phone will seem like pure agony. Unfortunately, you'll still be addicted to the internet, but at least you can't take your laptop into the can with you. Well, not in public, anyway.
That's easy. Learn to type 120wpm. Going from 120wpm on a laptop to 30wpm on a phone will seem like pure agony. Unfortunately, you'll still be addicted to the internet, but at least you can't take your laptop into the can with you. Well, not in public, anyway.
I type > 120pm on a computer and > 70wpm on a mobile touch screen with all spell checking disabled (and used to type > 100wpm on a Blackberry).
It's not agonising and if you use the tech more (just like the computer), you improve
It's not agonising and if you use the tech more (just like the computer), you improve
I've found that setting my iphone to black and white completely broke my desire to use my phone. I would really recommend it as the first step for anyone who wants to limit the amount of time they spend on their device.
Works well.
And on the accessibility shortcuts you can also set it so triple-pressing the home button instantly toggles between B&W/Colour so (for example) you can the colours on a photo you've just taken.
And on the accessibility shortcuts you can also set it so triple-pressing the home button instantly toggles between B&W/Colour so (for example) you can the colours on a photo you've just taken.
Amazing - this is my new default, thanks!
The best de-Googled phone is, sadly, an iPhone. I came to this conclusion after sticking with Android for over a decade and hating iPhones, but switching to iOS has been one of the better decisions I made in my life.
While I agree, it isn't any less addicting than a Googled phone, sadly. I'm in agreement with the OP that I need something else, but I'm finding it both hard to get away from the iCloud infrastructure and also just part ways with a smartphone.
If I could get a dumb phone that could still run Google/Apple/Any Maps for GPS purposes, I'd be first in line.
If I could get a dumb phone that could still run Google/Apple/Any Maps for GPS purposes, I'd be first in line.
It's as addictive as what apps you run on it. Facebook and Instagram aren't going to be any less addictive just because you get them running on a Linux phone.
The smartphone UX is all kinds of poor, I'm immediately repulsed and turned off by it versus a keyboard and mouse. Hamburger menus at the top of a now-very-tall screen? Yeah, fuck that.
The smartphone UX is all kinds of poor, I'm immediately repulsed and turned off by it versus a keyboard and mouse. Hamburger menus at the top of a now-very-tall screen? Yeah, fuck that.
You have zero Google apps on your phone? If not then your iPhone is every bit the Google tracking device that an Android phone is.
You say that like it's hard to believe, but the big ones are Gmail & Maps right? And it's completely possible/not that uncommon to not have either of them. Out of the box Apple even has first-party solutions for both I think?
> the big ones are Gmail & Maps right?
There's also the YouTube app (needed for Chromecasting YouTube from iPhone), and Google Calendar.
There's also the YouTube app (needed for Chromecasting YouTube from iPhone), and Google Calendar.
Oh YouTube in particular is a good point, I overlooked that.
(I'm sure it's at least somewhat intentional along those lines that it hasn't become GTube or something over the years.)
(I'm sure it's at least somewhat intentional along those lines that it hasn't become GTube or something over the years.)
It's definitely not "every bit the Google tracking device", simply because iPhones do not use Google services for assisted GPS. Unless you fully de-Google an Android phone, it'll keep reporting the nearby networks, cell towers and other wireless beacons to Google in the background. On iOS, this doesn't happen by default, because this data is sent to Apple instead.
I have just one Google app installed: Maps. Its location settings are set to only allow location access when the app is open, so it collects very little data useful to Google. I can probably switch to Apple Maps, but I don't know whether the quality of navigation and public transport data is as good as Google Maps. If it turns out to be similar, I'm likely to switch, because I'm only staying with GMaps thanks to the data quality.
I have just one Google app installed: Maps. Its location settings are set to only allow location access when the app is open, so it collects very little data useful to Google. I can probably switch to Apple Maps, but I don't know whether the quality of navigation and public transport data is as good as Google Maps. If it turns out to be similar, I'm likely to switch, because I'm only staying with GMaps thanks to the data quality.
I absolutely have zero google apps on my iPhone. Also don’t use TikTok, Facebook or any of their subsidiary services. It works well.
I don't have this problem. I can't stand and have never been able to stand browsing social media or the internet on smart phones. I have the latest iphone max, but I only use it for comms (phone, SMS, email, slack, discord, zoom if I'm on the go and really screwed) and taking pictures. I never have and never will "consume" on my phone unless I have absolutely no other choice of device to use (like if I were locked in an elevator with only my phone for several days). Mobile websites are terrible so when I do "consume" on my phone I inevitably check the "request desktop site" checkbox and do everything I can to avoid the site thinking I'm mobile, because once they know you're mobile 2/3rds of the features suddenly are unavailable typically. 99.99% of my media consumption, video watching, and web browsing is on my laptop or through various streaming devices like apple tv, etc. In the past I did play a few select mobile games that were quite good like Bloons TD, but I always gravitated towards the desktop version instead when it became available, and I find that these days there aren't any good games that aren't pay-to-win via microtransactions, at least none that come up when I poke around.
So for these reasons I've never understood how someone could find their phone addicting. It's an ad-displaying machine with terrble UX and limited functionality that can also do comms. I browse social media like Twitter, etc., on my laptop. I can't understand how anyone would ever want to do that on mobile.
My favorite phone I've ever owned was still my Lumia 1020 back in the golden days of windows phone. That phone embodied the two tasks I care about (comms and taking pictures), had a dark-mode UI way before that became popular, and generally just stayed out of the way and was performant.
So for these reasons I've never understood how someone could find their phone addicting. It's an ad-displaying machine with terrble UX and limited functionality that can also do comms. I browse social media like Twitter, etc., on my laptop. I can't understand how anyone would ever want to do that on mobile.
My favorite phone I've ever owned was still my Lumia 1020 back in the golden days of windows phone. That phone embodied the two tasks I care about (comms and taking pictures), had a dark-mode UI way before that became popular, and generally just stayed out of the way and was performant.
> So for these reasons I've never understood how someone could find their phone addicting.
This is like saying "I don't abuse alcohol, therefore I can't understand how others could abuse alcohol."
Good for you, dude. I guess be thankful that you don't have these struggles, but try to understand that your life experience isn't necessarily shared.
This is like saying "I don't abuse alcohol, therefore I can't understand how others could abuse alcohol."
Good for you, dude. I guess be thankful that you don't have these struggles, but try to understand that your life experience isn't necessarily shared.
What was the point of writing this though? You have an extremely anomalous use of and relationship to smartphones that makes you immune to the problems other people have with them. Yet those problems are widespread, and the ways you've avoided them aren't really accessible or acceptable to most of the people experiencing them.
You don't come right out and say it but there's definitely a virtuousness angle here. If other people were just good in the ways you are good, they wouldn't have these problems. They have in some sense the ability to avoid these consequences, and so they are choosing to have them. They deserve them, in a sense. Right?
You don't come right out and say it but there's definitely a virtuousness angle here. If other people were just good in the ways you are good, they wouldn't have these problems. They have in some sense the ability to avoid these consequences, and so they are choosing to have them. They deserve them, in a sense. Right?
Imagine berating someone for their inability to relate. Perhaps the poster has undiagnosed autism? It's surprisingly common in adults.
The point of posting it was clearly attempting to understand/relate.
The point of posting it was clearly attempting to understand/relate.
It wasn't at all clear to me that that was the attempt being made. But then, I do have diagnosed autism so hey.
You're in good company here on HN (me too).
My point is I don't understand what sucks people in. Explain to me how you normies operate. How can you stand mobile ux?
Yep, it's not the phone it's the apps on the phone that are addicting. Delete them and you'll live in peace and tranquility.
> Delete them and you'll live in peace and tranquility.
^ This. My app install strategy is zero apps installed by me.
^ This. My app install strategy is zero apps installed by me.
I would love to have a flip phone again.. the simpler and dumber the better.
they're great. the UX is so bad that i hardly use it unless absolutely necessary, which is a positive thing for me. would definitely recommend. it has maps and podcasts and google, believe it or not. the downside is no imessaging (which i can do on my computer), no notes (so i carry around a notebook), bad camera (want to buy a digital one), no spotify (been listening to cds and want to get an mp3 player without apps), no authenticator app (we should be using hardware keys anyway). so now i carry around more stuff unfortunately but it's a worthwhile tradeoff. it's a clunky UX and everybody around me has a smartphone, so i just use theirs to google or play something on spotify.
it's made me realize how much of our recent world has been built around everybody having a smartphone. for example, QR codes for menus and to pay for parking, etc, is not a very equitable world.
it's made me realize how much of our recent world has been built around everybody having a smartphone. for example, QR codes for menus and to pay for parking, etc, is not a very equitable world.
Is it any less equitable than needing to have a fixed address or bank account?
idk, wasn't comparing to that.
It seems that a lot of people want a "dumber phone" but also don't want to give up thing like Maps/Spotify/Quality Camera/2FA app/etc. I am one of those people have found a solution that has worked well for myself. (iOS only)
I use Screentime and give the password to my partner. I have blocked downloading new apps and websites I waste time on. This lets me have access to useful apps and I can look things up on the internet (but not browse reddit). If can always temporarily get the password from my partner if I need a new app or am traveling.
I highly recommend trying it out if you want a dumber-phone but don't want a dumb phone.
I use Screentime and give the password to my partner. I have blocked downloading new apps and websites I waste time on. This lets me have access to useful apps and I can look things up on the internet (but not browse reddit). If can always temporarily get the password from my partner if I need a new app or am traveling.
I highly recommend trying it out if you want a dumber-phone but don't want a dumb phone.
So I know it sounds counterintuitive, but I have found that when I got an Apple Watch (the OG) it drastically changed my relationship with my phone.
Before if I got an alert I would want to open it, and then that turned into opening other apps and before I knew it I was in a spiral.
But with the Apple Watch I get the alerts I want (texts largely) on my watch and everything else is stuck on my phone. The important alerts are front and center, if I need to respond I either can from my watch or I can from another Apple Device (I often get an alert for a text on my watch and then open iMessage on my Mac for example).
So my phone now is much more... I purposefully open it when I need it instead of I need to respond to something and it turns into a spiral.
I know it isn't quite the same as being disconnected. But it is weird how much having those alerts on my wrist has drastically changed how I view my phone.
Before if I got an alert I would want to open it, and then that turned into opening other apps and before I knew it I was in a spiral.
But with the Apple Watch I get the alerts I want (texts largely) on my watch and everything else is stuck on my phone. The important alerts are front and center, if I need to respond I either can from my watch or I can from another Apple Device (I often get an alert for a text on my watch and then open iMessage on my Mac for example).
So my phone now is much more... I purposefully open it when I need it instead of I need to respond to something and it turns into a spiral.
I know it isn't quite the same as being disconnected. But it is weird how much having those alerts on my wrist has drastically changed how I view my phone.
> if I got an alert
There’s your problem. My phone has been in DnD for the past 10 years and I’m still addicted and check it way too often.
When I need to use my girlfriend’s phone, it beeps and rings and alerts 5 times in the space it takes to watch the video she’s trying to show me. It’s downright anxiety inducing and I don’t understand how she lives like that.
My phone doesn’t even show the red bubble notification counters anymore. It’s great.
There’s your problem. My phone has been in DnD for the past 10 years and I’m still addicted and check it way too often.
When I need to use my girlfriend’s phone, it beeps and rings and alerts 5 times in the space it takes to watch the video she’s trying to show me. It’s downright anxiety inducing and I don’t understand how she lives like that.
My phone doesn’t even show the red bubble notification counters anymore. It’s great.
It was definitely a problem for me before, because I would have anxiety about missing the important notifications within all the noise.
Even now though there are alerts that I want. Like texts from my partner, certain email chains, etc.
I have those important alerts going to my watch and everything else is stuck to my phone.
With the added benefit that because those alerts are stuck there, I was also able to better realize that there are a lot of alerts that I don't want and either deleted the apps or changed their notification settings.
Kinda more where I am going with this, the watch let me re-evaluate a lot of things about my phone. Yes those things can be done without the watch. But it was the push to help me have a healthy (in my opinion) relationship with my phone.
Importantly, this came with the added benefit of I still have this phone in my pocket for the (admittedly rare) times that having a smart phone is truly beneficial.
Even now though there are alerts that I want. Like texts from my partner, certain email chains, etc.
I have those important alerts going to my watch and everything else is stuck to my phone.
With the added benefit that because those alerts are stuck there, I was also able to better realize that there are a lot of alerts that I don't want and either deleted the apps or changed their notification settings.
Kinda more where I am going with this, the watch let me re-evaluate a lot of things about my phone. Yes those things can be done without the watch. But it was the push to help me have a healthy (in my opinion) relationship with my phone.
Importantly, this came with the added benefit of I still have this phone in my pocket for the (admittedly rare) times that having a smart phone is truly beneficial.
Also living in DnD mode for ten years and wouldn't have it any other way. I tend to triage my correspondence every few hours rather than as it comes in, especially with email, otherwise I'd go bananas.
I'm thinking of getting a smartwatch just to test out your theory. I got one for my wife because she's always leaving her phone in her bag with the ringer off (or so low she can't hear it) and I can never reach her. So on the upside, the watch makes it so she gets my messages. On the downside, the watch makes it really annoying for her to reply so often she doesn't.
So, while I despise the interruptions, I'm also sympathetic to the way my friends and family and coworkers feel. If they write me and I never respond, it makes them feel bad. And if it's something timely/important, it can cause real anxiety or problems.
So, while I despise the interruptions, I'm also sympathetic to the way my friends and family and coworkers feel. If they write me and I never respond, it makes them feel bad. And if it's something timely/important, it can cause real anxiety or problems.
Totally agree. I resisted a smart watch for so long because I wanted fewer distractions not more. Turns out, the Apple Watch lets me achieve that while still getting the small number of notifications I need to (primarily phone calls).
https://www.wired.com/2015/04/the-apple-watch/
https://www.wired.com/2015/04/the-apple-watch/
It is really weird when you think that adding the watch allows this.
I am sure there are people that the watch just made them more attached to their phone in an unhealthy manner.
But I would love to think that there are just as many of us that it has turned into a healthy addition. Contrary to popular belief.
I am sure there are people that the watch just made them more attached to their phone in an unhealthy manner.
But I would love to think that there are just as many of us that it has turned into a healthy addition. Contrary to popular belief.
But you're still getting interruptions, or micro-interruptions if you want to call it like that and that takes a tool on focus and deep work. I have a smartphone but will keep it on silent and out of view to deal with interruptions: for me everything can wait.
True to a point, but I would still like to be able to get alerts from my partner.
Those are alerts that you would still get even with a dumber phone.
I do also realize that you can kinda replicate this with focus mode. But my point is more, my watch has turned into the alerts I care about while everything else is stuck on my phone if I so choose to interact with it.
Those are alerts that you would still get even with a dumber phone.
I do also realize that you can kinda replicate this with focus mode. But my point is more, my watch has turned into the alerts I care about while everything else is stuck on my phone if I so choose to interact with it.
Yeah, sadly dumb phones aren't the solution either. With call spamming smart phones could potentially be more useful, dumb phones have no screening call capability for spam and becomes a hassle to use them. I feel for old people with dumb phones receiving dozens of unsolicited calls. The best solution is self restraint from distractions.
Very true, a dumb phone seems to be the wrong answer to the problem. I mean if you really don't get any value ever from the smart phone go for it, but it is a weird solution when you can just make your relationship with the phone healthy yourself. I mean a fresh iOS install doesn't give you a ton of alerts on its own.
But also, smart phones do have their value. There have been a couple of jobs I have gotten interviews for because I was hanging out with someone and someone mentioned looking to fill a position so I sent them my resume right there.
Or navigation (walking or car). Not getting lost (heavily related to navigation but still). Needing to look up something on the internet.
Sure today a lot of smart phone use is for... I am going to say meaningless tasks. They are "fun" but you would be fine without them. But there are a lot of valid uses that smart phones provide. The issue is everything else.
But also, smart phones do have their value. There have been a couple of jobs I have gotten interviews for because I was hanging out with someone and someone mentioned looking to fill a position so I sent them my resume right there.
Or navigation (walking or car). Not getting lost (heavily related to navigation but still). Needing to look up something on the internet.
Sure today a lot of smart phone use is for... I am going to say meaningless tasks. They are "fun" but you would be fine without them. But there are a lot of valid uses that smart phones provide. The issue is everything else.
Yes.
Or, more accurately, you're an idiot if you blame your phone for feeling distracted all the time. It's not your phone's fault. It's your brain's fault. Without taking conscious action to stop thinking about the distractions you'll just move from one distraction to another when you choose a dumber phone. Getting a phone that can't run apps isn't going to magically make you pick up your side project. You'll watch more TV, or play more video games, or just play Snake on the dumb phone, or post more on HN or something.
Being distracted by your phone is a symptom of a problem, not a cause.
Or, more accurately, you're an idiot if you blame your phone for feeling distracted all the time. It's not your phone's fault. It's your brain's fault. Without taking conscious action to stop thinking about the distractions you'll just move from one distraction to another when you choose a dumber phone. Getting a phone that can't run apps isn't going to magically make you pick up your side project. You'll watch more TV, or play more video games, or just play Snake on the dumb phone, or post more on HN or something.
Being distracted by your phone is a symptom of a problem, not a cause.
I might agree with this if applications and devices were not created by people who have degrees and jobs explicitly aimed at getting and holding your attention. If there were not people who, because of mental disorders (or just being young) become addicted more easily than average.
It's a war for your attention, and your phone is their primary gateway to your attention.
Don't blame the victim when there's a multi-billion dollar market that hinges on victimizing people by getting - and keeping - their attention.
It's a war for your attention, and your phone is their primary gateway to your attention.
Don't blame the victim when there's a multi-billion dollar market that hinges on victimizing people by getting - and keeping - their attention.
I spend far more time scrolling HN than I do on social media or on my phone. I have an HN problem, and no social media problem. Yet, HN has zero "engagement engineering" put into it.
And why is this? Because chose to start browsing HN, and I chose to not spend time on social media. My addiction is a product of my own choices, and nobody else's.
If you can show me that the majority of people addicted to social media and/or their phones were forced to use them, then that's involuntary. Otherwise, by definition, they voluntarily decided to use whatever social media app they're captured by.
And why is this? Because chose to start browsing HN, and I chose to not spend time on social media. My addiction is a product of my own choices, and nobody else's.
If you can show me that the majority of people addicted to social media and/or their phones were forced to use them, then that's involuntary. Otherwise, by definition, they voluntarily decided to use whatever social media app they're captured by.
I mean, everyone installing some kind of time management software is trying to offload their problems to an app, instead of dealing with their own issues of e.g. distractability or seeking low energy distractions.
I think low energy distractions are fine, within reason though. As long as they don't start to affect other things, like sleep; if they do, you need to do some self-reflection and leave it alone.
I think low energy distractions are fine, within reason though. As long as they don't start to affect other things, like sleep; if they do, you need to do some self-reflection and leave it alone.
My phone is pretty much my primary connection to all of manmade material culture, and I'd prefer to keep it that way.
Physical objects take up space, and time, in the form of the effort needed to keep track of them. They also cost money. A phone is one of the most powerful devices ever made to replace physical items.
Plus, it's amazing to be able to go anywhere and never worry about getting lost(Or was, back when I lived somewhere with busses and actually could go to more than a small number of places).
It also has a huge equalizing effect. I can remember stuff just as well as anyone! I can leave a pot of water on the stove, do something in another room for a few minutes, and come back! I can count 100 objects and not lose track!
The addiction is a very real problem, but a fairly lower middle class life with modern tech is still more of a luxury than a millionaire would have had 50 years ago.
I'm not exactly sure what to do about it, but getting rid of Android isn't really on my list of ideas, although if someone's life is so awesome that they're willing to give up phones to not miss a minute, and they've got enough capability that they don't just spend all their time getting lost and forgetting things, I can respect that.
Physical objects take up space, and time, in the form of the effort needed to keep track of them. They also cost money. A phone is one of the most powerful devices ever made to replace physical items.
Plus, it's amazing to be able to go anywhere and never worry about getting lost(Or was, back when I lived somewhere with busses and actually could go to more than a small number of places).
It also has a huge equalizing effect. I can remember stuff just as well as anyone! I can leave a pot of water on the stove, do something in another room for a few minutes, and come back! I can count 100 objects and not lose track!
The addiction is a very real problem, but a fairly lower middle class life with modern tech is still more of a luxury than a millionaire would have had 50 years ago.
I'm not exactly sure what to do about it, but getting rid of Android isn't really on my list of ideas, although if someone's life is so awesome that they're willing to give up phones to not miss a minute, and they've got enough capability that they don't just spend all their time getting lost and forgetting things, I can respect that.
Solved the problem with a Nokia 8110 4G, which works great as Internet tether for my thinkpad too (now writing using them in fact). Browsing is near impossible as is using every other internet service, just calls and receiving SMSs from the bank from time to time, which is exactly what I need. They're slowly pushing the use of apps for authentication, but I still keep the (paid) option to stay with SMSs. The phone works great although the UI is a bit sluggish; battery life is not great but enough for use with tethering and calls (no problems whatsoever doing both at the same time). Camera is sub par just like every dumb phone out there; I use it only to make photos of products I need to remember, I never expected I could use it to shoot beautiful sunsets.
Price may change significantly, I was lucky enough to purchase it new at €49 delivered, but I've seen its price dancing up to over 200€, which is ridiculous.
If you can find it at a reasonable price, it's a nice little device that does the 3 things a dumb phone should do today.
I use Jelly 2 phone (3 inch display: https://imgur.com/a/WXG6YXg) and OLauncher (no icon, just text). Only Spotify, Map, Mail, Calendar and Telegram. Any other app is unusable as the screen is way too small.
It's so annoying to use that I really use it when I have to.
It's so annoying to use that I really use it when I have to.
If it wasn't for 1. maps/transit directions (Google Maps is the only service that is useful for this where I live) 2. video calls with family, I would probably be OK with an early 2000s Nokia. But I want both of those things, so I keep reluctantly using an iPhone.
The long-term solution to the never ending distractions is going to be more tech, not less. We are seeing the start of it with Apple building out the focus modes on iOS, but there's lots of ground to cover. Imagine that all the productivity apps, i.e. slack and email, leverage AI to help prioritize and schedule what you need to respond to. For example, you could imagine your inbox giving you one notification after two hours with a prioritized list of emails to respond to. At the end of the week, if you haven't responded or read emails that fit a certain pattern, it will suggest filtering these emails to another folder.
This is a little more complex with social media, where the goal is to drive engagement time as much as possible. Not really sure what would fix this, other than users manually setting up their own screen time limits. Legislation might be able to accomplish something, but that feels very heavy handed and would likely have poor execution considering how out of touch politicians are. Perhaps Apple could build in some OS features that would identify social media addiction and gently nudge users to take breaks.
The dumb phone idea is interesting and highlights how much of a current issue this is, but doesn't feel like a realistic solution for the broader public
This is a little more complex with social media, where the goal is to drive engagement time as much as possible. Not really sure what would fix this, other than users manually setting up their own screen time limits. Legislation might be able to accomplish something, but that feels very heavy handed and would likely have poor execution considering how out of touch politicians are. Perhaps Apple could build in some OS features that would identify social media addiction and gently nudge users to take breaks.
The dumb phone idea is interesting and highlights how much of a current issue this is, but doesn't feel like a realistic solution for the broader public
This feels like a very tech-industry answer. The solution to too much tech in our lives is more tech? AI? The latter especially I don’t buy. In my experience, apps and services that try to learn your usage patterns rarely do a good job of it. I know there’s really great uses of AI out there, but this idea that we can just sprinkle some AI dust over problems and they’ll be solved, feels like such a tired pitch by now. Often AI turns services into grey boxes that become very frustrating to use when their predictions are wrong. I don’t need to cede even more control of my life to algorithms that are opaque to me and are often trying to monetize me in ways I never consented to.
As far as more tech being more realistic than people opting for dumb phones en masse, you’re probably right, but AI being an actual good solution to tech addiction I disagree.
As far as more tech being more realistic than people opting for dumb phones en masse, you’re probably right, but AI being an actual good solution to tech addiction I disagree.
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I want a dumber phone. A camera would be nice but I don't need one. All I need it to do is (how do I do a line break? 2 spaces at the end doesn't work)
- Make standard mobile phone calls and text (with a touchscreen)
- Support calls using SIP/VOIP
- Maybe an app or two, specifically signal so I can look at pictures, I don't need video to work
- No notifications (besides text when it's not on silent)
- If possible a really shitty browser that doesn't support JS but can handle searching google+wikipedia
- Make standard mobile phone calls and text (with a touchscreen)
- Support calls using SIP/VOIP
- Maybe an app or two, specifically signal so I can look at pictures, I don't need video to work
- No notifications (besides text when it's not on silent)
- If possible a really shitty browser that doesn't support JS but can handle searching google+wikipedia
My strategy has been to use Google's parental controls to disable all apps that I had a tendency to misuse. That being primarily web browsers. I left termux installed and can still browse the web, when necessary, through links2. This is text only and javascript free, as you suggest.
It just feels like your want is just so niche it's unrealistic to produce the exact phone. If you stopped at wants 1 and 2, sure. When you start adding apps and a bad browser it's veering off into strange requirements because for those things to happen you essentially need to pay for a fully featured phone anyway.
It sounds like you could use an iPhone and only leave the phone, message(disable iMessage in settings), install whatever app or two you want, going settings and disable notifications, or put it in focus mode, or do not disturb mode, or do all three of those things. Then you can go into settings > safari > advanced and disable javascript.
It sounds like you could use an iPhone and only leave the phone, message(disable iMessage in settings), install whatever app or two you want, going settings and disable notifications, or put it in focus mode, or do not disturb mode, or do all three of those things. Then you can go into settings > safari > advanced and disable javascript.
Well if I stopped at want 2 the rest are fullfilled. 2 are maybes and one was a no notification if there are apps. There are plenty of devices with a not to spec web browser and back in the day people use to write java apps for phones which only used the java api. I thought that might be what the app situation might be if there are apps but I'm completely fine with text+contacts being the only app
Actually I forgot one more requirement. I'd like either a headphone jack (or bluetooth) and music player for when I jog
Actually I forgot one more requirement. I'd like either a headphone jack (or bluetooth) and music player for when I jog
Great, an iPhone is still a good solution! It has bluetooth and a way to physically plug in headphones.
For me, iOS 16 focus modes and a cellular Apple Watch is working for this. I've been able to pretty much just stop carrying my phone when I need to be connected but don't want the distractions. I have tried the Palm Phone in the past to reduce my use of smartphones and really liked it but did not like the lack of integration to iCloud and that you couldn't de-Googleify it.
I tried getting an app called BlockSite to work for the last 2 years, but it must have relied on a very unstable API for tracking webpage visits and displaying the overlay to block them, because it was always breaking.
I feel pretty dumb for not thinking of this sooner, but chrome allows blocking JavaScript on specific domains. I literally just yesterday finally did this for YouTube, and I'm excited I finally found something that works.
The channels will all still be there later if I want to watch some of the content, but now I can't just casually start it up all the time.
Also if this sounds useful to you but you sometimes need YouTube, this doesn't block it in the little temporary browser that opens when you click on a link from Facebook messenger. So it's a roundabout way to still access in a pinch when you want to watch a video.
I feel pretty dumb for not thinking of this sooner, but chrome allows blocking JavaScript on specific domains. I literally just yesterday finally did this for YouTube, and I'm excited I finally found something that works.
The channels will all still be there later if I want to watch some of the content, but now I can't just casually start it up all the time.
Also if this sounds useful to you but you sometimes need YouTube, this doesn't block it in the little temporary browser that opens when you click on a link from Facebook messenger. So it's a roundabout way to still access in a pinch when you want to watch a video.
> I WASTE WAY too much time on my phone and am attracted by the idea of simplifying my digital life. So I found several apps and tutorials designed to make my smartphone ‘dumb,’ but I’ve hesitated to take the plunge. Am I just trying to escape modern life?
Buy dumbphone with no WIFI, Bluetooth, NFC, Only SMS and VOICE and put your SIM card in it. Use it for SMS and VOICE.
You can still have smartphone but now it doesn't have SIM, so no LTE or 5G, and turn off WIFI, NFC, Bluetooth, and put it in airplane mode forever. This will dumb it down.
Take your dumbed down smartphone with you only if you need camera and GPS. Like hiking etc..
I'd like a dumb(ish) digital wallet. One that I can use to replace my 5 NFC-enabled payment cards, which has a small screen which lets me select which payment method I want to use (CC vs Debit, company vs private, etc), and which shows me the amount that's being requested, instead of having to rely on the terminal's goodwill.
Might be nice if it could also include a digital version of the other foo that's in my physical wallet: bus pass, gym membership card, ID, office access card. Like an actual wallet.
Some of these things are already possible with smartphones. But smartphones are insecure garbage filled with ad-tech and bloatware and rarely receive security patches for more than a year or so.
Might be nice if it could also include a digital version of the other foo that's in my physical wallet: bus pass, gym membership card, ID, office access card. Like an actual wallet.
Some of these things are already possible with smartphones. But smartphones are insecure garbage filled with ad-tech and bloatware and rarely receive security patches for more than a year or so.
I'd just like a nice Android OS based phone with a BlackBerry style real keyboard. Please.
Personally I don't want a dumber phone. Smart phones have net-increased my quality of life, although that may be because I have always stood away from mainstream social media.
However I want companies to loose their "we need to funnel our entire product through an app" attitude.
I was recently looking for some Nanoleaf-style lighting elements for some indirect light at my workstation. I failed to find any that doesn't require an app to control basic things like brightness etc. It's just a fancy adjustable lightbulb. Just put a physical on/off switch and a dial for brightness on the panel.
However I want companies to loose their "we need to funnel our entire product through an app" attitude.
I was recently looking for some Nanoleaf-style lighting elements for some indirect light at my workstation. I failed to find any that doesn't require an app to control basic things like brightness etc. It's just a fancy adjustable lightbulb. Just put a physical on/off switch and a dial for brightness on the panel.
I don't want a dumber phone, I want a phone I can _fully_ control. Once we have that we can use software to make the phone be what we want, when we want.
For those who are looking for something in-between but closer to the dumb phone side, I'd recommend the Kyocera DuraXE (also sold as the DuraXV).
I'm quite happy with it. It's got exactly what I'd want: decent camera, the ability to (very slowly) type out a text message if needed, the ability to (clumsily) browse the web, and is super rugged. You can also side-load APKs if you really need some app too (e.g. maps).
I'm quite happy with it. It's got exactly what I'd want: decent camera, the ability to (very slowly) type out a text message if needed, the ability to (clumsily) browse the web, and is super rugged. You can also side-load APKs if you really need some app too (e.g. maps).
Does the phone use Android or another operating system? I looked into the Kyocera phones but couldn't really understand this. Presumably it's Android if you can sideload APKs, but then, is it google Android or another version?
It is Android, but some kind of stripped down and modified version of it. I've tried to find official info on it too, but what's out there is mostly power user speculation. The consensus seems to be that it's stripped down in that it boots faster and makes use of less standard features, but also modified to do things like support the pointer given that the screen is non-touch.
Why is it $270?? Pinephone is $150-$200
The best thing I ever did is have a secondary device - a tablet - that has all notifications turned off. I get the benefits of a smart device, without the attention-grabbing detriments.
Sure, my phone still rings and beeps at me (occasionally), but there's enough of a barrier in the act of moving devices which keeps me from swapping instinctively, that lets me keep my attention on the media (usually books) I'm consuming.
Sure, my phone still rings and beeps at me (occasionally), but there's enough of a barrier in the act of moving devices which keeps me from swapping instinctively, that lets me keep my attention on the media (usually books) I'm consuming.
I used to feel similar but no more. I keep only the minimal must-to-have apps on my default profile and rest on a Work profile. Work profile remains switched off most of the time until and unless I need to use the apps on the Work profile. Eventually, this cut down the number of apps on my phone.
Sandbox your addictions and trim them down at your pace. That's how it worked for me.
Sandbox your addictions and trim them down at your pace. That's how it worked for me.
Back in the 90s, I would occasionally get a phone call on my land line from the phone company, trying to upsell me on things like call waiting that they could charge me more for.
My reply was that I only want two things: the ability to make calls, and the ability to receive calls. And that on most days I wasn't so sure about the second thing, come to think of it.
My reply was that I only want two things: the ability to make calls, and the ability to receive calls. And that on most days I wasn't so sure about the second thing, come to think of it.
Unfortunately, a "smart phone" is very useful when traveling. Buying tickets to events, checking on travel, directions, translation, etc.
I think the key is to have two phones -- a "dumb phone" for during the day at office and evenings at home so you won't be distracted, and a "smart phone" for travel
I think the key is to have two phones -- a "dumb phone" for during the day at office and evenings at home so you won't be distracted, and a "smart phone" for travel
I wanted a dumber phone and a less addictive digital experience, without giving up any of the neat features or becoming a disconnected weirdo.
So I bought an Apple Watch and I now leave my phone in a different room. I get all notifications and can respond to urgent ones or be summoned to the phone if needed. But I'm no longer doomscrolling.
So I bought an Apple Watch and I now leave my phone in a different room. I get all notifications and can respond to urgent ones or be summoned to the phone if needed. But I'm no longer doomscrolling.
I went down this road in the last few months because spending 800$ on a fucking phone drives me insane.
There is not a good dumb phone. I bought a few and they all had network connectivity or clarity issues. We're being slowly forced into using smartphones made by two data-hungry American corporations and I for one do not like it one bit.
There is not a good dumb phone. I bought a few and they all had network connectivity or clarity issues. We're being slowly forced into using smartphones made by two data-hungry American corporations and I for one do not like it one bit.
I bought Nokia dumphones and they didn't have connectivity issues, but I live in the EU. The bigger problem is that a lot of services assume that any phone is a smartphone, and can display images and has a browser.
I am currently homeless and I wish I could switch to a dumb phone. I still do not know what is stopping me. Man this tech has me by the shorts and I hate it.
It is always just something that is there, needed me, either for alerts, or charging, or FOMI (That is fear of missing information, You are welcome).
It is always just something that is there, needed me, either for alerts, or charging, or FOMI (That is fear of missing information, You are welcome).
maybe I'm just very different from the target audience, but this article seems to run through a load of viewpoints that just don't make any sense. why on earth would you feel stupid for making the conscious decision to switch to a less distracting phone? who has this fear of phone dumbness that the article is talking about? it seems like an issue invented (by the author) through the semantics of the words dumb and smart. yes, some people may have social fomo, but that's not the fear of being some kind of luddite
I also completely disagree that it's a cop-out for a dumb phone to have genuinely useful features like maps, music and taxis - things you might have anyway in physical form
I also completely disagree that it's a cop-out for a dumb phone to have genuinely useful features like maps, music and taxis - things you might have anyway in physical form
Unfortunately, there are many cases nowadays where you actually need a smartphone.
It’s less about the phone and more about the apps on it. You really don’t need Instagram or any of this crap but I’m sure you already know that.
You can have a phone and just use rss for news.
It’s less about the phone and more about the apps on it. You really don’t need Instagram or any of this crap but I’m sure you already know that.
You can have a phone and just use rss for news.
What is stopping someone from creating this experience on a modern phone?
My recommendation every time this topic comes up:
* Restore your phone to factory fresh, install only the minimum apps you need. Way easier than culling from the herd, app-wise.
Why not have a friend / spouse / whoever put parental controls, lock all applications / websites you don't want access to?
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Switched to a 30$ ebay flip phone earlier this month. It's been great so far
Perhaps a dumber phone isn't the best answer. Here are some other things to try to help with your smartphone addiction.
First - delete all your addictive social media apps from your phone. If there are some you can use without issue then you can keep those. I have LinkedIn installed on my phone, for example.
Second - use a strong password generator for all your social media sites you do use. Only keep those passwords on your laptop/workstation, not your phone. This prevents you from being able to use your phone's web browser to go to the social media sites. I use FB to keep in touch with family and friends, but I have no idea what my password is and I certainly couldn't login from my phone. I visit FB in the morning while having my first coffee using my laptop and so it's easy to time box.
Third - why the notifications? Your phone shouldn't be bleeping and blooping and squawking all day long. That's distracting. I disable almost all audio notifications, enable some banner notifications, and enable most badges. If I notice any of those notification methods causing me any kind of anxiety or distraction then I disable it. This works wonders for your computer too - your notifications should be for things that are actually important and require your attention, not a post where your buddy is sharing pictures of what he's having for lunch.
If you've removed your ability to engage with social media on your phone then what can you do? For starters, you have a great point-and-shoot digital camera/video recorder in your pocket. You also have a GPS receiver. You have a radio (Spotify) or a music player (your music app). All in once device.
You also have your ID and a means to pay - so technically you no longer need a waller. In my town you're going to need your phone in order to pay for parking. Sorry, there's an app for that and that's what you have to use to pay. Many bars and restaurants these days no longer provide menus and simply give you a QR code that takes you to the menu. Public Transportation is increasingly reliant on phones - again I don't need a wallet to carry my metro card. By the time you have a phone capable of doing all these things you're firmly back into the smartphone territory.
Finally, do you have hobbies? Are there apps that support your hobby? I'm a musician. I have Garage Band on my iPhone. I can be enjoying a walk and have an inspiration and quickly capture an idea that I can work on later. I could go on and on - there's actually many music apps I use - and I don't have to drag my laptop to my buddy's house whenever we want to jam together.
Your best strategy isn't to get a dumber phone, but to get smarter in how you use your smartphone. Make your smartphone work for you, don't become a slave to it!
First - delete all your addictive social media apps from your phone. If there are some you can use without issue then you can keep those. I have LinkedIn installed on my phone, for example.
Second - use a strong password generator for all your social media sites you do use. Only keep those passwords on your laptop/workstation, not your phone. This prevents you from being able to use your phone's web browser to go to the social media sites. I use FB to keep in touch with family and friends, but I have no idea what my password is and I certainly couldn't login from my phone. I visit FB in the morning while having my first coffee using my laptop and so it's easy to time box.
Third - why the notifications? Your phone shouldn't be bleeping and blooping and squawking all day long. That's distracting. I disable almost all audio notifications, enable some banner notifications, and enable most badges. If I notice any of those notification methods causing me any kind of anxiety or distraction then I disable it. This works wonders for your computer too - your notifications should be for things that are actually important and require your attention, not a post where your buddy is sharing pictures of what he's having for lunch.
If you've removed your ability to engage with social media on your phone then what can you do? For starters, you have a great point-and-shoot digital camera/video recorder in your pocket. You also have a GPS receiver. You have a radio (Spotify) or a music player (your music app). All in once device.
You also have your ID and a means to pay - so technically you no longer need a waller. In my town you're going to need your phone in order to pay for parking. Sorry, there's an app for that and that's what you have to use to pay. Many bars and restaurants these days no longer provide menus and simply give you a QR code that takes you to the menu. Public Transportation is increasingly reliant on phones - again I don't need a wallet to carry my metro card. By the time you have a phone capable of doing all these things you're firmly back into the smartphone territory.
Finally, do you have hobbies? Are there apps that support your hobby? I'm a musician. I have Garage Band on my iPhone. I can be enjoying a walk and have an inspiration and quickly capture an idea that I can work on later. I could go on and on - there's actually many music apps I use - and I don't have to drag my laptop to my buddy's house whenever we want to jam together.
Your best strategy isn't to get a dumber phone, but to get smarter in how you use your smartphone. Make your smartphone work for you, don't become a slave to it!
This is the second tech adverse article [1] I've come across recently from Wired. The first was someone who doesn't use a password manager. I'm starting to see a pattern here.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32176748
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32176748
The exceptions to the norm are interesting to read about and discuss. Not wanting a smartphone is the exception to the rule in today's world.
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