Google and Pearson Announce Free LMS Service to Compete with Blackboard/Moodle(chronicle.com)
chronicle.com
Google and Pearson Announce Free LMS Service to Compete with Blackboard/Moodle
http://chronicle.com/blogs/wiredcampus/pearson-and-google-jump-into-learning-management-systems/33636?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+chronicle%2Fwiredcampus+%28The+Chronicle%3A+Wired+Campus%29
17 comments
While my company focuses more on the events aspect of a university, I can say that time and time again, our partner schools go with us because our platform requires no training. We designed it to be easy to use, while still being a helpful product. I'm convinced that if a startup set out to build an LMS that is extremely usable, yet meets most requirements, it'd disrupt the heck out of the space.
So you need a Google account to login? That's going to be a problem.
At my college Blackboard isn't tied in to the administrative processes (there's another system for that), so hopefully they will consider this. "Free" is a word that they like to hear. I don't know too much about the guts of Blackboard but it doesn't seem to be as customizable as a Google system will be.
At my college Blackboard isn't tied in to the administrative processes (there's another system for that), so hopefully they will consider this. "Free" is a word that they like to hear. I don't know too much about the guts of Blackboard but it doesn't seem to be as customizable as a Google system will be.
Don't forget that the Google ecosystem is not just the "@gmail.com" or "@googlemail.com" domains. There are tons of deployments of Google Apps for Domains, wherein one authenticates using the DNS domain[1] of the hosted system, not via the "traditional" Google credentials.
I could be misunderstanding your concern, however, since the vanilla Apps for Domains does store the credentials in a Google controlled machine, AFAIK. I cannot speak to whether there are any customizable authentication options available with Apps for Domains.
1 = and thus creates a new namespace for usernames
I could be misunderstanding your concern, however, since the vanilla Apps for Domains does store the credentials in a Google controlled machine, AFAIK. I cannot speak to whether there are any customizable authentication options available with Apps for Domains.
1 = and thus creates a new namespace for usernames
For the schools I work with (secondary education), this is a bonus. Faculty has been trying to get students to use their Google Apps email and converse using the school's own tools rather than Facebook. Any tool that gets the kids to login to Google Apps to use the website is a bonus.
I'm curious to see how this LMS works out and am recommending teachers check it out immediately.
I'm curious to see how this LMS works out and am recommending teachers check it out immediately.
Currently Google requires you to have a Google acct to use any of their API's. So a site like OpenClass will probably have to cater to that...really hope they don't expect people to use two types of logins...
Instructure's Canvas also used Google APIs and yes, you have to have a Google acct to use certain things like GoogleDocs within their site...
Instructure's Canvas also used Google APIs and yes, you have to have a Google acct to use certain things like GoogleDocs within their site...
The LMS Service market for higher education is surely right for disruption. Personally, I would have been more excited if there was a startup, instead of Google had taken this initiative.
If it was a startup, they couldn't have done it for free.
Google seems to like rolling into an industry and laying waste to it. As a consumer, I'm happy about that. As a CS student, it makes me nervous.
Google seems to like rolling into an industry and laying waste to it. As a consumer, I'm happy about that. As a CS student, it makes me nervous.
I wonder if I am just bitter, but it feels to me like the problem is not in the availability of software. Even this page on HN summarizes many open source or well-thought-out LMS packages.
There seems to be some kind of bad intersection between bureaucracy and apathy (each individual institution scoring higher or one or the other, usually).
Alternatively, the less bile-filled version says that it is closer to the old adage: "no one got fired for buying IBM." =~ s/IBM/BlackBoard/.
There seems to be some kind of bad intersection between bureaucracy and apathy (each individual institution scoring higher or one or the other, usually).
Alternatively, the less bile-filled version says that it is closer to the old adage: "no one got fired for buying IBM." =~ s/IBM/BlackBoard/.
This isn't produced by Google; see some of the comments above.
Instructure's (http://www.instructure.com/) is a startup doing a product in this space (it has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread). My university just switched away from blackboard to it.
I just want to point out that Canvas is doing a rather good job of modernizing LMS software: http://www.instructure.com ...It took me a long time to find that tool when I needed to spin up an LMS, so I wanted to make sure folks were aware of it.
p.s. Canvas is foss https://github.com/instructure/canvas-lms/wiki
p.s. Canvas is foss https://github.com/instructure/canvas-lms/wiki
Mhm... the demo asks for too much information:
Name, email, organization, title, and phone number.
This immediately they'll get random gibberish from me. The majority of LMS provide a default demo login/password and do not require personal information.
About 3 years ago I researched broadly about LMS. I tested several (including Moodle, Dokeos, Claroline, Blackboard, etc) and selected Dokeos due to its simplicity and interface ease. Moodle was a second but the interface just did not make sense to me (too cluttered, no evident task flow for teachers and students). Right now Chamilo seems to follow Dokeos original goal.
Name, email, organization, title, and phone number.
This immediately they'll get random gibberish from me. The majority of LMS provide a default demo login/password and do not require personal information.
About 3 years ago I researched broadly about LMS. I tested several (including Moodle, Dokeos, Claroline, Blackboard, etc) and selected Dokeos due to its simplicity and interface ease. Moodle was a second but the interface just did not make sense to me (too cluttered, no evident task flow for teachers and students). Right now Chamilo seems to follow Dokeos original goal.
A free service from Google? Is the source code available or are institutions going to be screwed if/when it gets canned?
For those who have forgotten: Code Search, Google Video, Wave, Buzz, Google Labs, Google Desktop, Google Notebook, Google Sets, Google Squared, Google Catalogs, Google Answers, Audio Ads, Google Base, Browser Sync, City Tours, Click-to-Call, Google Dashboard Widgets, Dodgeball, Jaiku, Google Mashup Editor, Google Directory, GOOG-411, Joga Bonito, Aardvark, Lively, Music Trends, Ride Finder, Google Shared Stuff, Sidewiki, FastFlip, Google Translate API, Writely, Google Health, PowerMeter, Google University Search, U.S. Government Search, Slide products (Disco, Pool Party, Video Inbox, Photovine, Slideshow, SuperPoke! Pets), Google Pack, Image Labeller and Google Dictionary. I'm sure I have missed a few things, but you get the idea.
For those who have forgotten: Code Search, Google Video, Wave, Buzz, Google Labs, Google Desktop, Google Notebook, Google Sets, Google Squared, Google Catalogs, Google Answers, Audio Ads, Google Base, Browser Sync, City Tours, Click-to-Call, Google Dashboard Widgets, Dodgeball, Jaiku, Google Mashup Editor, Google Directory, GOOG-411, Joga Bonito, Aardvark, Lively, Music Trends, Ride Finder, Google Shared Stuff, Sidewiki, FastFlip, Google Translate API, Writely, Google Health, PowerMeter, Google University Search, U.S. Government Search, Slide products (Disco, Pool Party, Video Inbox, Photovine, Slideshow, SuperPoke! Pets), Google Pack, Image Labeller and Google Dictionary. I'm sure I have missed a few things, but you get the idea.
You missed the Google Search API :-) deprecated twice:
- http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2009/08/well-earned-retiremen...
- http://googleajaxsearchapi.blogspot.com/2010/11/fall-houseke...
- http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2009/08/well-earned-retiremen...
- http://googleajaxsearchapi.blogspot.com/2010/11/fall-houseke...
It sounds like it is from Pearson not Google really, just available via Google Apps marketplace. Suspect they will start to charge if it takes off.
The code appears to be open source. You can checkout the code using git as described here:
http://code.google.com/p/openclass/source/checkout
http://code.google.com/p/openclass/source/checkout
I think that's just a nameclash. The main welcome page is in Russian, which would be unexpected from a Pearson/Google collaboration.
>warning: You appear to have cloned an empty repository.
There doesn't seem to be anything in that project.
There doesn't seem to be anything in that project.
You are right, it is empty: http://code.google.com/p/openclass/source/browse/#git
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I use Blackboard everyday. Blackboard is a scam.
It has an interface from 2002. To many users this might not be a problem. To the hundreds of students I work with, this is.
It is counter intuitive to use, has poorly designed features and has terrible email, calendar and document integration with any other client. Professor complain, students complain and universities shell out millions.
With the advent of Google/Pearson - This could solve alot of these problems and reduce barriers to adoption. However it will not be revolutionary in terms of enabling education. Such software has been around for a while and better execution will not enable better education.
However if google can integrate the following two factors, we have an education game changer, not just a free substitute
- Live work collaboration with Teachers/Teaching Assistants/Students on google docs.
This will allow students to work on documents and have teachers etc check-in and help them out.
- Google Hangout : A feature that is often left out of Google apps suite. But the potential to video conference with students across the city country and the world is a real game changer (As YCombinator knows)
It has an interface from 2002. To many users this might not be a problem. To the hundreds of students I work with, this is.
It is counter intuitive to use, has poorly designed features and has terrible email, calendar and document integration with any other client. Professor complain, students complain and universities shell out millions.
With the advent of Google/Pearson - This could solve alot of these problems and reduce barriers to adoption. However it will not be revolutionary in terms of enabling education. Such software has been around for a while and better execution will not enable better education.
However if google can integrate the following two factors, we have an education game changer, not just a free substitute
- Live work collaboration with Teachers/Teaching Assistants/Students on google docs.
This will allow students to work on documents and have teachers etc check-in and help them out.
- Google Hangout : A feature that is often left out of Google apps suite. But the potential to video conference with students across the city country and the world is a real game changer (As YCombinator knows)
I am currently building a social eLearning site and I will proactively never call what I'm building as an LMS. LMS' key words are "management" where I'm building a site that will facilitate learning not just manage it.
I agree that the big game changers are live work collaboration and video chat and the standard Google has set is absolutely great. As a recent grad (may, 2011), working on group projects was absolutely essential to successful learning and by being able to allow similar interaction online is a win-win.
We have both those features in the site we're building...and the reason we're not too terrified of others using Google's APIs is that the user will ultimately still need a Google account to use them even on a different site.
If OpenClass is truly open, why make everyone sign up and then also sign up to Google? Not everyone has a Google acct. What about all the countries around the world that would benefit from a true "OpenClass"?
Check us out at www.cloudeas.com...our landing page is still not up yet as we recently started this project but with the amount of traction this article is getting, it's needless to say our landing page will be up today (tonight at the very latest).
We are 5 recent grads that feel the exact same way you have about blackboard---absolutely sick of it and it actually distracted us from learning rather than enhancing it...we decided to build our own: built by students but designed for professors
I agree that the big game changers are live work collaboration and video chat and the standard Google has set is absolutely great. As a recent grad (may, 2011), working on group projects was absolutely essential to successful learning and by being able to allow similar interaction online is a win-win.
We have both those features in the site we're building...and the reason we're not too terrified of others using Google's APIs is that the user will ultimately still need a Google account to use them even on a different site.
If OpenClass is truly open, why make everyone sign up and then also sign up to Google? Not everyone has a Google acct. What about all the countries around the world that would benefit from a true "OpenClass"?
Check us out at www.cloudeas.com...our landing page is still not up yet as we recently started this project but with the amount of traction this article is getting, it's needless to say our landing page will be up today (tonight at the very latest).
We are 5 recent grads that feel the exact same way you have about blackboard---absolutely sick of it and it actually distracted us from learning rather than enhancing it...we decided to build our own: built by students but designed for professors
From Blackboard's patent pledge:
"Blackboard hereby commits not to assert any of the U.S. patents listed below, as well as all counterparts of these patents issued in other countries, against the development, use or distribution of Open Source Software or Home-Grown Systems to the extent that such Open Source Software and Home-Grown Systems are not Bundled with proprietary software.
<snip>
"The commitment not to assert any of these named U.S. patents and all counterparts of these patents issued in other countries is irrevocable except that Blackboard reserves the right to terminate this patent pledge and commitment only with regard to any party who files a lawsuit asserting patents or other intellectual property rights against Blackboard or its parent or subsidiaries. This pledge is binding on Blackboard’s successors and assigns."
I really wonder if Blackboard will try anything shady a la its dance with Desire2Learn a few years ago. Limiting this commitment to open source/home grown systems not bundled with propriety software provides Blackboard an opportunity to launch an infringement action against Google, which in a certain light would be hilarious to watch.
[1] http://www.blackboard.com/about-bb/patents/patent-pledge.asp...
"Blackboard hereby commits not to assert any of the U.S. patents listed below, as well as all counterparts of these patents issued in other countries, against the development, use or distribution of Open Source Software or Home-Grown Systems to the extent that such Open Source Software and Home-Grown Systems are not Bundled with proprietary software.
<snip>
"The commitment not to assert any of these named U.S. patents and all counterparts of these patents issued in other countries is irrevocable except that Blackboard reserves the right to terminate this patent pledge and commitment only with regard to any party who files a lawsuit asserting patents or other intellectual property rights against Blackboard or its parent or subsidiaries. This pledge is binding on Blackboard’s successors and assigns."
I really wonder if Blackboard will try anything shady a la its dance with Desire2Learn a few years ago. Limiting this commitment to open source/home grown systems not bundled with propriety software provides Blackboard an opportunity to launch an infringement action against Google, which in a certain light would be hilarious to watch.
[1] http://www.blackboard.com/about-bb/patents/patent-pledge.asp...
"People will sign on to their Google Mail accounts and see OpenClass as one of their available products at the top of their Web browser. They will also be able to use Gmail and Google Docs from within the program."
Is it just me, or is this a bit of a Trojan horse to get students signed up for the Google ecosystem in bunches of 25 at a time?
As both a teacher and a student, I've never been happy with any LMS I've used. I try to avoid them whenever possible.
Is it just me, or is this a bit of a Trojan horse to get students signed up for the Google ecosystem in bunches of 25 at a time?
As both a teacher and a student, I've never been happy with any LMS I've used. I try to avoid them whenever possible.
I just quit my job to build tools in the Edu space - I am wondering if you'd be willing to reconsider using lightweight LMS tools that are feature specific and do not require participation in bigger ecosystems?
Yeah, I'd consider it. Feel free to shoot an email to my username at gmail if you have any questions.
I knew something like this would eventually surface, but didn't realize it'd come from Pearson. We actually launched a very similar business model/site a year ago. I've been waiting to post anything on HN, b/c we are in the process of releasing a few changes (payments, channel updates) that I think would be helpful; but can save that for another time. We are really intrigued by this announcement b/c it is pretty much a direct competitor to what we are doing at NIXTY (www.nixty.com). I posted some thoughts on our blog and will highlight them here. I'd love to hear any thoughts/criticisms on this analysis.
There is ONE big difference between Pearson and NIXTY. Pearson’s main focus is on Pearson’s content. They are trying to make the LMS a commodity, so they can sell more of their content. NIXTY is focused on open education content.
Pearson’s OpenClass = Selling more of Pearson’s Closed Content/Courses
NIXTY = Supporting/Promoting Open Content/Courses
Pearson has the name ‘open’ in the title, but the real goal is to sell more closed content. Will it work? We don’t think so. Why?
1. Open Content is transforming education. It is free. Pearson will marginalize open content and focus on their own content. This will ultimately prove to be the undoing of OpenClass.
2. As the Inside Higher Ed article discussed, other publishing companies will not put their content in Pearson’s OpenClass ecosystem. We are hoping that they’ll look for a neutral alternative like NIXTY.
3. Pearson hasn’t exactly been awesome in the LMS space. eCollege is not what we’d call a market leader. I’m not sure, but it seems like eCollege folks might be in charge of the OpenClass product. Do they have the chutzpah to blow up eCollege to help OpenClass. Will the revenue streams from eCollege (tho likely decreasing) be sacrificed to help them grow OpenClass? Doubtful. They’ll likely try to keep both systems working and consequently end up doing a half-way job with OpenClass.
4. The comments around this from most folks in the articles and on Downes’ Google + post have been less than positive, suggesting that folks don’t necessarily have a lot of trust in Pearson.
Now, to at least try to be fair, let’s consider what Pearson has going for it.
1. They’ve got one BILLION dollars (said in my best Dr. Evil voice). Seriously, they’ve got A LOT of money.
2. They’ve got a lot of strategic relationships with other organizations and institutions. They seem to have done a nice job of rolling this out with their 9 design schools. Nicely done!
3. They’ve got great content!
4. They are good at marketing! You’d think Google co-designed this thing from the get-go; really, however, OpenClass is just another app just like learnboost or any other number of education apps in the Google ecosystem. In sum, Pearson’s OpenClass is an innovative approach to help Pearson sell more of their closed content. We believe that they’ll be forced to marginalize open content and competing closed content. Consequently, they’ll end up doing students, educators, and colleges a disservice. NIXTY offers the same functionality, same price (free!), has been around for over a year, and doesn’t have any content to hawk. Consequently, we can provide a better service to students, educators, and schools.
There is ONE big difference between Pearson and NIXTY. Pearson’s main focus is on Pearson’s content. They are trying to make the LMS a commodity, so they can sell more of their content. NIXTY is focused on open education content.
Pearson’s OpenClass = Selling more of Pearson’s Closed Content/Courses
NIXTY = Supporting/Promoting Open Content/Courses
Pearson has the name ‘open’ in the title, but the real goal is to sell more closed content. Will it work? We don’t think so. Why?
1. Open Content is transforming education. It is free. Pearson will marginalize open content and focus on their own content. This will ultimately prove to be the undoing of OpenClass.
2. As the Inside Higher Ed article discussed, other publishing companies will not put their content in Pearson’s OpenClass ecosystem. We are hoping that they’ll look for a neutral alternative like NIXTY.
3. Pearson hasn’t exactly been awesome in the LMS space. eCollege is not what we’d call a market leader. I’m not sure, but it seems like eCollege folks might be in charge of the OpenClass product. Do they have the chutzpah to blow up eCollege to help OpenClass. Will the revenue streams from eCollege (tho likely decreasing) be sacrificed to help them grow OpenClass? Doubtful. They’ll likely try to keep both systems working and consequently end up doing a half-way job with OpenClass.
4. The comments around this from most folks in the articles and on Downes’ Google + post have been less than positive, suggesting that folks don’t necessarily have a lot of trust in Pearson.
Now, to at least try to be fair, let’s consider what Pearson has going for it.
1. They’ve got one BILLION dollars (said in my best Dr. Evil voice). Seriously, they’ve got A LOT of money.
2. They’ve got a lot of strategic relationships with other organizations and institutions. They seem to have done a nice job of rolling this out with their 9 design schools. Nicely done!
3. They’ve got great content!
4. They are good at marketing! You’d think Google co-designed this thing from the get-go; really, however, OpenClass is just another app just like learnboost or any other number of education apps in the Google ecosystem. In sum, Pearson’s OpenClass is an innovative approach to help Pearson sell more of their closed content. We believe that they’ll be forced to marginalize open content and competing closed content. Consequently, they’ll end up doing students, educators, and colleges a disservice. NIXTY offers the same functionality, same price (free!), has been around for over a year, and doesn’t have any content to hawk. Consequently, we can provide a better service to students, educators, and schools.
Dude. Ping me: [email protected]
We're spinning up Hackers & Founders University. I have a hair on fire need, and I suspect you might be able to help. :)
aka iamelgringo@ googles email service
We're spinning up Hackers & Founders University. I have a hair on fire need, and I suspect you might be able to help. :)
aka iamelgringo@ googles email service
I think the title of this submission and that of the article overstates the degree to which Google and Pearson are working together. Pearson are merely using Google's API for Docs and App integration. This integration is open to anyone, as far as I know. Google are not co-sponsoring this as their own product.
If anyone is interested, I wrote an article about the platform and why it's perhaps not the best idea: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3121232
>“Anytime Pearson and Google are used in the same sentence, it’s going to get people’s attention,”
Yeah, even when apparently this isn't a collaboration between the two, but just launching through Google Apps. It certainly doesn't sound that exciting either, sounds like a press release for a costly new service. Moodle is open-source already and is running many good services on campuses.
Yeah, even when apparently this isn't a collaboration between the two, but just launching through Google Apps. It certainly doesn't sound that exciting either, sounds like a press release for a costly new service. Moodle is open-source already and is running many good services on campuses.
I'm wasn't too impress by Moodle for having used it. I also used Blackboard at my first Uni and while moodle is a step up, there definitely is some work to do. On the admin side I don't think it's any easier to manage than Blackboard. Also Blackboard integration was much better with other campus services. Single sign on and things like that.
But just to be clear Blackboard is a horrible app. UI wise it's like 1999 all over again and it's dog slow (and not for lack of hardware, I knew some of the sys admins at my Uni personally, I worked in the same place as them, it's a bitch to manage). Anything including pen and paper is better than that thing. Teachers making their own HTML file has higher usability than blackboards interface. And rare are the teachers that use it for more than posting pdfs of slides and announcements. I bet their interface is worse.
But just to be clear Blackboard is a horrible app. UI wise it's like 1999 all over again and it's dog slow (and not for lack of hardware, I knew some of the sys admins at my Uni personally, I worked in the same place as them, it's a bitch to manage). Anything including pen and paper is better than that thing. Teachers making their own HTML file has higher usability than blackboards interface. And rare are the teachers that use it for more than posting pdfs of slides and announcements. I bet their interface is worse.
It's exciting to me, because I'm forced to use Blackboard and I hate it (for reasons eloquently described by others in thsi thread). I wanted to get excited about Moodle, and it's OK, but it's not all that. Face it, when you have such a derivative-sounding name, then your offering is likely to be shallow. Google and Pearson are among two of my favorite firms, and I know enough people connected with both to think their commitment to quality is more than skin deep.
First question that comes to mind is: Will Google collect data from students to enhance their other products (i.e. Adsense, G+)?
Our school is actually one of the beta testers, and I think it is important to point out that it is not actually a Google product, but a Pearson product. So although it is available through the Marketplace and plays nicely with Apps, it is not provided by Google.
Anything that makes it easier for faculty to communicate with students is a win-win. Bb is a difficult system to use on multiple fronts - for the student, instructor and administrators. It's also a very compelling add-on to schools that were on the fence regarding Google Apps for Education. This should provide a nice boost for Google.
I always thought that the major issue with getting into the LMS space came from Blackboard's portfolio of software patents surrounding such a service.
Blackboard has pledged that they would not enforce those patents against Open Source projects [1][2], but pay services might have trouble coming their way...which would explain the lack of innovation/modernization in the area.
[1] http://www.blackboard.com/about-bb/patents/patent-pledge.asp...
[2] http://www.blackboard.com/about-bb/patents/frequently-asked-...
Blackboard has pledged that they would not enforce those patents against Open Source projects [1][2], but pay services might have trouble coming their way...which would explain the lack of innovation/modernization in the area.
[1] http://www.blackboard.com/about-bb/patents/patent-pledge.asp...
[2] http://www.blackboard.com/about-bb/patents/frequently-asked-...
Marketplace reported on this Thursday:
http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/10/13/pm...
This is interesting. At Virginia Tech, we switched from Blackboard to an in-house system built on Sakai about 2 years ago. It's much better than Blackboard, but even as a student, it's dreadful. Our professors apparently have it much worse though.
It would be nice to see a system that uses Google Apps. This would be a big step up versus the systems in place now.
It would be nice to see a system that uses Google Apps. This would be a big step up versus the systems in place now.
My question: Is OpenClass going to be hosted by Pearson or are they going to leave that up to the schools like Moodle does?
Just reminds me that "there's no such thing as a free lunch"...
Just reminds me that "there's no such thing as a free lunch"...
It is hosted by Pearson. It is a cloud based service just like Google Apps. They do have a revenue model, although I am not sure it has been completely released yet.