Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes(theverge.com)
theverge.com
Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/25/22995144/microsoft-foreign-corrupt-practices-bribery-whistleblower-contracting
381 comments
I was prepared to get my pitchfork out, but after reading I'm struggling to connect the dots. This article is scant on details of what illegal or favorable behavior Microsoft is expecting in exchange for money. The only concrete mention is a previous SEC filing that has nothing to do with this whistleblower. The first example about $40k doesn't seem to explain what Microsoft was actually thinking it would get for that money, let alone whether that money was illegal. At worst, it seemed to violate corporate policy, which I can understand if that got missed in an initial review. The other examples don't sound like bribery on Microsoft's part so much as resellers squeezing as much out of a deal as they can get away with. I call that a problem with the reseller model.
I imagine Microsoft looks the other way while resellers make lots of money because, realistically, being in some of the markets mentioned is impossible unless you're connected with the right person. While not necessarily efficient, I wouldn't call that illegal or even unethical without a lot more detail than this article provides.
But maybe I'm missing something. This article reads as poorly researched, and the whistleblower comes off as disgruntled more than ethical.
Edit: It's worth noting that the whistleblower's original words are a little more well-written than this article [1]. However, it makes the contrast clearer between what is factual vs what is only insinuated.
1: https://www.lioness.co/post/microsoft-is-using-illegal-bribe...
I imagine Microsoft looks the other way while resellers make lots of money because, realistically, being in some of the markets mentioned is impossible unless you're connected with the right person. While not necessarily efficient, I wouldn't call that illegal or even unethical without a lot more detail than this article provides.
But maybe I'm missing something. This article reads as poorly researched, and the whistleblower comes off as disgruntled more than ethical.
Edit: It's worth noting that the whistleblower's original words are a little more well-written than this article [1]. However, it makes the contrast clearer between what is factual vs what is only insinuated.
1: https://www.lioness.co/post/microsoft-is-using-illegal-bribe...
This has been common knowledge for me for a long time, after this case surfaced in the media here in Romania: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_licensing_corruption...
Pretty much all of the public system uses windows as OS, and most of the times it's just to use a browser to access a webapp. But there are actual windows lock-ins (due to people training and existing workflow/infrastructure that has no incentive to change), such as MS Office and Adobe Reader.
So there was no reason for Microsoft to bribe decision-making people to use windows, windows was already firmly locked in, they did it just so they can overprice licenses and for them to accept leased licenses instead of a permanent one time pay windows license. Big win for MS and bribe takers, big loss to common decency and public spending availability.
A sign of a healthy democratic government can be seen in the decisions to build future public software infrastructure on open source technology, and use Linux as client/server OS (as it's pretty much the only other alternative offering similar ease of use/maintenance/compatibility with existing software).
edit: wrote this to show it's not necessarily the cost of doing business, in most places, because the software ecosystem is already locked in and can't be replaced overnight and without considerable spending. It's just the cost of extracting more public money. And sometimes it's the cost to keep the business safe from decisions to steer towards Opensource: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux
Pretty much all of the public system uses windows as OS, and most of the times it's just to use a browser to access a webapp. But there are actual windows lock-ins (due to people training and existing workflow/infrastructure that has no incentive to change), such as MS Office and Adobe Reader.
So there was no reason for Microsoft to bribe decision-making people to use windows, windows was already firmly locked in, they did it just so they can overprice licenses and for them to accept leased licenses instead of a permanent one time pay windows license. Big win for MS and bribe takers, big loss to common decency and public spending availability.
A sign of a healthy democratic government can be seen in the decisions to build future public software infrastructure on open source technology, and use Linux as client/server OS (as it's pretty much the only other alternative offering similar ease of use/maintenance/compatibility with existing software).
edit: wrote this to show it's not necessarily the cost of doing business, in most places, because the software ecosystem is already locked in and can't be replaced overnight and without considerable spending. It's just the cost of extracting more public money. And sometimes it's the cost to keep the business safe from decisions to steer towards Opensource: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux
My work involves a public sector organization in Brazil. In the last years there was a big push towards microsoft products at my workplace, to a point where emails with announcements from corporate IT sometimes looks and sounds like spam pushing MS products. Now I'm left wondering if that's related to bribes here too, or if it's just bad judgement/taste from IT leadership.
I’m disappointed but not surprised that the title is editorialized. It specifically leaves off “whistleblower alleges”. It’s literally one disgruntled former employee claiming this. But as usual for HN these days a tiny populations claim - in this case a population of one - is stated as fact.
Western countries look the other way when their companies exploit poor countries. Then let the same corrupt money to be be taken out from those poor countries and hidden in their banks and property markets. Microsoft is not alone in this many other companies do the same. I personally feel the biggest hate from the west for the chinese so called road and belt initiative is not that China is exploiting these countries rather China has pushed them out and taken over their scam.
Jesus do you know how many training videos about anti-corruption and bribery I've had to watch as an MS employee?
Reminds me of this great piece (and hn discussion) regarding corporate bribery during the Watergate years:
https://longreads.com/2018/11/20/the-second-half-of-watergat...
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18498796
This reads as the modern chapter to the story.
https://longreads.com/2018/11/20/the-second-half-of-watergat...
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18498796
This reads as the modern chapter to the story.
If a government organization would want to use a Linux, how hard would it actually be? Is it a viable alternative?
I have been reading the comments about bribing foreign companies. Very interesting
I think it is pertinent to remind people here, especially subjects of the USA, that in the USA bribing politicians is a formal and accepted practise. Records are kept, they are publicly available.
The hypocrisy of those politicians is legendary for all sorts of reasons, this is just a minor point. Bribery is only illegal if done informally in foreign countries or the private sector.
I think it is pertinent to remind people here, especially subjects of the USA, that in the USA bribing politicians is a formal and accepted practise. Records are kept, they are publicly available.
The hypocrisy of those politicians is legendary for all sorts of reasons, this is just a minor point. Bribery is only illegal if done informally in foreign countries or the private sector.
I reckon Microsoft and others haven't learned from Lockheed in the 70s. It'll only be a matter of time before we hear about other charges regarding Apple and Google
Fridays are the days most interesting news lands because it’s easiest to sweep it under the rug with the weekend.
I wish news organizations where more courageous and held on to this stuff to Monday/Tuesday.
I wish news organizations where more courageous and held on to this stuff to Monday/Tuesday.
The only way to stop this is to give the whistleblower a large cut of the fine: say, 50%. That will drive up the incentive to whistleblow; otherwise, all you get is a pink slip and a spot in the soup kitchen line.
I bet this is normal procedure for most companies that do business in countries where bribes are common. In Germany foreign bribes used to be even deductible.
Fair play to this guy whoever he is. If only more people had his integrity.
Kudos to Yasser Elabd! This man sounds awesome.
This part particularly stood out to me:
> When he refused a performance improvement plan, he lost the job and left Microsoft for good in August 2018.
I didn't know you could refuse a PIP. TIL
This part particularly stood out to me:
> When he refused a performance improvement plan, he lost the job and left Microsoft for good in August 2018.
I didn't know you could refuse a PIP. TIL
And much of this is to convince governments to not go open source. This kind of behavior is part of Microsoft's DNA.
Everytime something like this comes up, westerners pretend that they are shocked, which I find hard to believe.
Western aid agencies and humanitarian agencies work closely with corporations and third world governments to get their way. Oftentimes, these bribes are not as direct as alleged here. Instead, the corporations donate to humanitarian agencies, which then allocate it as budget in the target country in exchange for business deals. Most of the aid disappears in "admin expenses" i.e. it goes to fill the pockets of people making these deals with these corporations.
Western aid agencies and humanitarian agencies work closely with corporations and third world governments to get their way. Oftentimes, these bribes are not as direct as alleged here. Instead, the corporations donate to humanitarian agencies, which then allocate it as budget in the target country in exchange for business deals. Most of the aid disappears in "admin expenses" i.e. it goes to fill the pockets of people making these deals with these corporations.
Billions get paid to Microsoft from countries with starving people.
This has always upset me and I do not use Microsoft.
I am just so sick of all the cheating. Every time you turn around, some business, politician, or wealthy person is corrupt as f** and everyone who can do anything about it won't.
To be clear, this is not (just) a matter of ethics. If true, these acts are in violation of the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. Each violation can be up to 5 years in prison.
Foreign companies get fined billions for doing the same when it doesn't please Uncle Sam...
I've been working in the tech industry for 25 years. I've probably watched 10 different corporate ethics training videos that cover bribery and inappropriate gifts. At the end we have to answer a quiz to prove we weren't asleep.
In all my time I have never had any control over money and no way to bribe someone even if I wanted to.
About 5 years ago I check my email in the morning and there are emails from the corporate legal and PR teams about not answering any questions from reporters about a certain employee. They state this person is no longer an employee.
I immediately google his name and find that he has been arrested on foreign bribery charges.
Everyone in our team was laughing that he must have forgotten to take the mandatory corporate ethics and anti bribery training.
What is the point of making us watch all these videos when we have no budget authority anyway while the C-level execs bribe people?
In all my time I have never had any control over money and no way to bribe someone even if I wanted to.
About 5 years ago I check my email in the morning and there are emails from the corporate legal and PR teams about not answering any questions from reporters about a certain employee. They state this person is no longer an employee.
I immediately google his name and find that he has been arrested on foreign bribery charges.
Everyone in our team was laughing that he must have forgotten to take the mandatory corporate ethics and anti bribery training.
What is the point of making us watch all these videos when we have no budget authority anyway while the C-level execs bribe people?
Highly skeptical of this take. Lots of allegations claiming various payments are really bribes When all is said and done there will be few true bribes found and those will likely be by rogue relatively lower level or little supervised employees Suspect this is a disgruntled employee with a good lawyer who dreamed up a way to squeeze Microsoft. Who doesn't hate or want to hate Microsoft ? Big companies are well aware of the massive liability and associated legal costs under US federal law for bribery (domestic and foreign) and no way are they going to conspire systemically to destroy themselves. There have already been well documented and publicized federal bribery cases against companies such as Walmart. No legal department is going to tolerate bribery
Microsoft spokesperson: "how dare you single us out, obviously everyone is doing this"
> "they’re promoting the bad people. If you’re doing the right thing, they won’t promote you."
I can relate to this. Seems to be an industry-wide phenomenon. It probably explains what's going on with the world.
I can relate to this. Seems to be an industry-wide phenomenon. It probably explains what's going on with the world.
I wonder if this explains the shocking incompetence of the Windows division...
Bribing in Africa is so common it could be considered a business practice
Why am I not surprised. Microsoft operates in all the sketchy countries.
After all the business ethics training videos I had to sit through, I am infuriated by this.