Ask HN: European startup looking for a service for recurring billing
69 comments
If you are in the UK with a UK bank account, you are going to need a UK gateway and merchant account - unless you relocate. It's just part of the "know your customer" anti-money-laundering deal that all western countries have between their governments and their banks that make it difficult to set up abroad. It might be possible, but it's just extra headache.
I would suggest looking at Recurly as your integration endpoint for a few reasons:
1) Multi-currency. Some people claim it's "expensive" as as $200/mo add-on, but the extra conversions from geo-targetting visitors with their native currency make this a no-brainer, especially for UK companies.
2) Data portability. You can leave Recurly in 5 years if you want to write your own recurring billing app or switch to somewhere else and they will give you your data.
3) Not having your customer's CC details held at the gateway (Recurly are best described as a value-add intermediary) means you should be able to easily switch out gateways later on. This is a key architectural choice that I don't think people pay enough attention to, and Recurly really don't promote it enough. Chargify etc do not do this, instead they store your customer's details at the gateway and have no power to retrieve them ever again.
4) Supports VAT.
The down side to Recurly is their API is a bit messy. Their hosted payment pages and "transparent API" appear to be next to useless if you want to also record extra information (e.g, username) as part of the signup process in a seemless way.
With regards to payment gateway, pick any payment gateway from here: http://recurly.com/features/payment-gateway-support
The truth is, it really doesn't matter. As long as it is working, and your bank/merchant account doesn't put a hold or delay on your income.
Don't stress about the transaction fees. People get too hung up on a percentage point, with the frame of reference that "when we've got $10m in revenue, that 1% is worth $100,000)", but honestly, when you get to that point, you will have enough business savvy to re-negotiate or look for a better deal then. When you don't have any customers, it really doesn't matter.
I would suggest looking at Recurly as your integration endpoint for a few reasons:
1) Multi-currency. Some people claim it's "expensive" as as $200/mo add-on, but the extra conversions from geo-targetting visitors with their native currency make this a no-brainer, especially for UK companies.
2) Data portability. You can leave Recurly in 5 years if you want to write your own recurring billing app or switch to somewhere else and they will give you your data.
3) Not having your customer's CC details held at the gateway (Recurly are best described as a value-add intermediary) means you should be able to easily switch out gateways later on. This is a key architectural choice that I don't think people pay enough attention to, and Recurly really don't promote it enough. Chargify etc do not do this, instead they store your customer's details at the gateway and have no power to retrieve them ever again.
4) Supports VAT.
The down side to Recurly is their API is a bit messy. Their hosted payment pages and "transparent API" appear to be next to useless if you want to also record extra information (e.g, username) as part of the signup process in a seemless way.
With regards to payment gateway, pick any payment gateway from here: http://recurly.com/features/payment-gateway-support
The truth is, it really doesn't matter. As long as it is working, and your bank/merchant account doesn't put a hold or delay on your income.
Don't stress about the transaction fees. People get too hung up on a percentage point, with the frame of reference that "when we've got $10m in revenue, that 1% is worth $100,000)", but honestly, when you get to that point, you will have enough business savvy to re-negotiate or look for a better deal then. When you don't have any customers, it really doesn't matter.
Recurly supports http://WireCard.com, a large German gateway which is able to serve all EU-based corporations.
That's what we are using for our app (http://laskuapp.com). We are based in Belgium. The process with wirecard was quite long but went smoothly and the people we were in contact with were super friendly.
Wow, this is really helpful. I think we will definitely use Recurly (as it is the only service, that doesn't look like crap).
Apparently FlowApp uses Recurly too. So it is possible to make this look nice :)
Apparently FlowApp uses Recurly too. So it is possible to make this look nice :)
Use http://recurly.com with http://WireCard.com/ as Gateway.
Works fine in the EU!
(WireCard AG is a German based credit card gateway owning a "full" bank license. It's also a public traded company regulated by strict German banking regulations)
Works fine in the EU!
(WireCard AG is a German based credit card gateway owning a "full" bank license. It's also a public traded company regulated by strict German banking regulations)
What's WireCard like price-wise? Doesn't seem to say on their website.
setup 149,00 EUR (seems to be negotiable)
monthly 19,00 EUR
per transaction 0,25 EUR + 3,45% (Visa, MC)
just ask their customer support and tell them, that you will use recurly.com which means less technical trouble for all people involved (PCI compliance etc).
We use Chargify with Payment Express hooked up to Barclaycard and American Express merchant services. It works great.
We lost $750 of sales (50%) in our first month because we didn't think Amex was important. It turns out that Amex is the card of choice for US businesses.
We lost $750 of sales (50%) in our first month because we didn't think Amex was important. It turns out that Amex is the card of choice for US businesses.
That's some good advice right there.
Same setup as Jot here (Hi jot)...
Had zero trouble with Payment Express (known as Direct Payment Solutions to the UK banks). Only thing that is maybe not ideal is the time difference, Payex. are in New Zealand and so email-threads can take several days if you don't ask questions at 1am.
Had zero trouble with Payment Express (known as Direct Payment Solutions to the UK banks). Only thing that is maybe not ideal is the time difference, Payex. are in New Zealand and so email-threads can take several days if you don't ask questions at 1am.
I'm the founder of Simplified Ecommerce and we support international Merchants from almost everywhere.
There's a lot of really great companies in the space, I think we offer something unique. (www.simplifiedecommerce.com)
Get to market fast
- Get started within a day, without long complicated merchant account applications.
- Copy & Paste integrations with "Buy Now" links
- Instant security and PCI Compliance - Merchants never touch sensitive data
- Easy recurring subscription billing and one-time payments
- Customizable hosted payment pages that match your website and branding, with no CSS knowledge required.
- Simple straight forward pricing that includes everything in the payments stack.
Grow without limits
- Built in Affiliate Marketing
- Portable data from day 1(all customer data is stored in our level 1 PCI compliant tokenized vault)
- Add your own merchant account any time - we're a gateway, certified and integrated with most US and some international processor networks
- Switch merchant accounts seamlessly - all your data, reporting, integrations, custom payment pages, affiliate relationships... remain intact.
We have a history of over 10 years in the payments space, contact me anytime if you have any questions- colin at SimplifiedEcommerce.com
There's a lot of really great companies in the space, I think we offer something unique. (www.simplifiedecommerce.com)
Get to market fast
- Get started within a day, without long complicated merchant account applications.
- Copy & Paste integrations with "Buy Now" links
- Instant security and PCI Compliance - Merchants never touch sensitive data
- Easy recurring subscription billing and one-time payments
- Customizable hosted payment pages that match your website and branding, with no CSS knowledge required.
- Simple straight forward pricing that includes everything in the payments stack.
Grow without limits
- Built in Affiliate Marketing
- Portable data from day 1(all customer data is stored in our level 1 PCI compliant tokenized vault)
- Add your own merchant account any time - we're a gateway, certified and integrated with most US and some international processor networks
- Switch merchant accounts seamlessly - all your data, reporting, integrations, custom payment pages, affiliate relationships... remain intact.
We have a history of over 10 years in the payments space, contact me anytime if you have any questions- colin at SimplifiedEcommerce.com
So how come you can do this and the others can't? How do you deal with the problems listed elsewhere in the thread?
I let my customers chose between PayPal Subscriptions and 2Checkout.
Both work okay, but I would absolutely prefer a method that didn't involve redirecting my customers to unknown domains and interfaces like Paypal.com and 2Checkout.com.
Both work okay, but I would absolutely prefer a method that didn't involve redirecting my customers to unknown domains and interfaces like Paypal.com and 2Checkout.com.
Another problem with Paypal.com and 2Checkout.com is the amount of data they require to charge my card. There's no way they need to know my home address, phone number, email address, etc. I feel sorry for those who will post PII to some sub-merchant website because the seller's devs were too lazy to write something user and privacy -friendly.
It's not about laziness, it's about fraud. The less you know about your customer the more likely the person on the other end is not who they claim to be, and doesn't have permission to use the credit card they're using. For some sites that's fine, for others taking only a CC#, CVV2 code and zip code (the minimum necessary info to pay a decent transaction rate ) and you'll be out of business in a few months from the chargeback rate.
Once you lose a merchant account for CB rate (consistently above 1%), you'll never get another again, since all banks/MSPs check the TMF and MATCH file and will see you've been terminated in the past. Both your business information and the social security numbers of all principals of the business will be blacklisted for life.
You might be interested in the book "Founders at Work: Stories of Startups Early Days". PayPal is one of the founding stories covered. The only reason PayPal is here, where so many other payment services came and went during the dot-com boom, is that they tackled the fraud problem. There were times when PayPal was bleeding over $10 million a month to fraudulent activity. They are, in effect, the largest payment fraud management company in the world.
Once you lose a merchant account for CB rate (consistently above 1%), you'll never get another again, since all banks/MSPs check the TMF and MATCH file and will see you've been terminated in the past. Both your business information and the social security numbers of all principals of the business will be blacklisted for life.
You might be interested in the book "Founders at Work: Stories of Startups Early Days". PayPal is one of the founding stories covered. The only reason PayPal is here, where so many other payment services came and went during the dot-com boom, is that they tackled the fraud problem. There were times when PayPal was bleeding over $10 million a month to fraudulent activity. They are, in effect, the largest payment fraud management company in the world.
It's a bit of a stretch to call them "unknown domains" in 2011. PayPal has 232 million accounts in over 190 markets, and anyone that's ever bought something on eBay knows them. People on all my websites have a choice between using a credit card right on the site or checking out through PayPal, and on every one of those sites, they choose PayPal more than 50% of the time.
If you are talking about the US market, you are right. In the Norwegian market, the one I'm operating it, it is certainly not that way. Very few ordinary "non-geeky" people have heard about Paypal here.
Would it be possible for you to open a US account with an online bank and have all online payments go there? Or would this be a big no no?
I'm not an US citizen. I guess that you need a social security number and be an American citizen to open a bank account in the US.
It's near impossible to open an bank account in many countries (specifically developed countries) without residency. I would also expect that if a US bank account was being used the IRS might question about taxes, as payment is occurring in the US, as far as they are concerned?
You can open up a bank account in the US without US residency - but it's more of a hassle than just using a service that supports your country because of tax issues and such.
I'm working on https://subsify.com/ to try and fill the gap in recurring payments for UK and EU businesses. At the moment we're only partnered with SagePay as a Payment Gateway so if that sounds good to you get in touch.
You need to work on your presentation. Replacing "try", "working on", and "if that sounds good to you" would go a long way. Like this:
"I have developed https://subsify.com/ which is a service filling the gap in recurring payemnts for UK and EU business. We currently support SagePay as Payment Gateway, which will fulfill the needs of most people. I would encourage anyone struggling with recurring payments in the UK to get in touch, we will probably be able to help you out."
"I have developed https://subsify.com/ which is a service filling the gap in recurring payemnts for UK and EU business. We currently support SagePay as Payment Gateway, which will fulfill the needs of most people. I would encourage anyone struggling with recurring payments in the UK to get in touch, we will probably be able to help you out."
I already mentioned in the other thread:
http://www.saasy.com
No direct experience with the service but same guys that offer Fastpring (non recurring) which I recommend!
No direct experience with the service but same guys that offer Fastpring (non recurring) which I recommend!
We were using Spreedly to abstract out the payment gateway side of things for our subscriptions.
However, to use them you need to be able to disable CVV checking using PayPal's "advanced fraud management filters". The same applies for Recurly and other similar services AFAIK.
Unfortunately PayPal wouldn't let us do this as we don't have enough trading history etc... so until we get a merchant account we're having to use PayPal's own recurring billing APIs.
We'd love for there to be a viable alternative to PayPal, Stripe's API looks gorgeous in comparison.
However, to use them you need to be able to disable CVV checking using PayPal's "advanced fraud management filters". The same applies for Recurly and other similar services AFAIK.
Unfortunately PayPal wouldn't let us do this as we don't have enough trading history etc... so until we get a merchant account we're having to use PayPal's own recurring billing APIs.
We'd love for there to be a viable alternative to PayPal, Stripe's API looks gorgeous in comparison.
Have a look at this series of posts we wrote on our blog: http://blog.handcraft.com/2011/01/looking-back-on-the-quest-... - we looked at Fastspring, Chargify and Spreedly and ultimately settled on Spreedly and Ogone (and a merchant account with AmEx). Spreedly is the processor most like Stripe of the above list.
We're in the Netherlands (like you?). Hit me up on twitter or our blog if you need any more info.
We're in the Netherlands (like you?). Hit me up on twitter or our blog if you need any more info.
We're also using Adyen. The support is pretty good, the API/website/documentation/customization options are all terrible. But it's one of the few PSPs that provides support for lots and lots of payment methods (like: VISA, Amex, MC, PayPal, but also a lot of local stuff like iDeal, Mr. Cash, etc.)
Supporting a local payment method (iDeal in our case) is a pretty big deal in our case, since it accounts for +50% of our total revenue. Don't underestimate this if you're planning to launch a European SaaS business!
Supporting a local payment method (iDeal in our case) is a pretty big deal in our case, since it accounts for +50% of our total revenue. Don't underestimate this if you're planning to launch a European SaaS business!
Same story here, I can pretty much confirm this word for word.
Especially the broad support of payment methods is crucial, and pretty much makes up for all of Adyen's shortcomings in the implementation department.
Especially the broad support of payment methods is crucial, and pretty much makes up for all of Adyen's shortcomings in the implementation department.
I'd also like to know this. PayPal as a primary payment gateway should not be an option for any startup.
What laws stop companies like Stripe, Recurly etc from easily launching in the EU?
What laws stop companies like Stripe, Recurly etc from easily launching in the EU?
We use Adyen's recurring payments: http://www.adyen.com/
Works OK for us, but could be better if you see Stripe for example.
Works OK for us, but could be better if you see Stripe for example.
We have and are in a similar situation.
Our setup at the moment is. HSBC Merchant Account, SagePay Gateway and Recurly for recurring billing. Its a lot of middle men and really isn't that great of a solution. I'm just about to setup Barclays EPDQ. It looks good. 3% charge and £10 per month for the privileged.
I have been usinng WHMCS.com's billing system for a few months. It has modules to handle many payment systems, and handles recurring billing.
You still have to have a merchant account; but, you have the potential to save 2-3% of each sale, since you will be dealing with the payment processor directly.
You still have to have a merchant account; but, you have the potential to save 2-3% of each sale, since you will be dealing with the payment processor directly.
I am also looking for something like this. The best I could come up with so far is fastspring.com. They offer their services to european customers and even handle european VAT.
I have not had a chance to try them out, though. Maybe someone has some experience to share?
I have not had a chance to try them out, though. Maybe someone has some experience to share?
It's hard to find out what other startups (from Europe) use for billing. Can anyone give any examples?
I understand that the rules are different and that most of the banks here are probably old-fashion, but isn't there a way to work around al those problems?
I understand that the rules are different and that most of the banks here are probably old-fashion, but isn't there a way to work around al those problems?
A slightly unconventional, but doable, approach for businesses aiming at the US market (or otherwise working primarily in US $) is to incorporate a subsidiary in the US and handle billing there.
Is it actually possible to start a subsidiary as an European citizen?
You don't have to be a resident to incorporate, although (as always) the laws often are quite arcane. If I remember correctly, taxation differs massively depending on whether your European company owns the US corporation/LLC or whether individual persons do.
You have to register with a state, and Delaware seems to be the preferred one, as they're basically a tax haven. The Liechtenstein of the US…
You have to register with a state, and Delaware seems to be the preferred one, as they're basically a tax haven. The Liechtenstein of the US…
Who has experience with Ogone (in combination with Atos, EMS or Paysquare) or Chronopay?
I looked into Chronopay, it seems a bit shady. Their co-founder was arrested recently too http://krebsonsecurity.com/2011/06/chronopay-co-founder-arre...
Hmm.. I believe http://Zuora.com might be able to help as they have a European office as well.
We use 2checkout.com for recurring subscriptions.
What about Avangate (www.avangate.com)? I don't know too much about them, so I am not sure if they are what you're looking for.
I've used Avangate. Pretty straightforward to setup; no prerequisites for a gateway or merchant account.
We need this!
We are trying to get Samurai (http://samurai.feefighters.com) into Europe. We don't have a firm timetable just yet though. If you'd like to be notified when it happens, please enter your email address here: https://docs.google.com/a/transfs.com/spreadsheet/viewform?h...
But what is so difficult to make it available in Europe? I don't really grasp what the problems are. And is there any way we Europeans can help, besides saying that we want to use your service.
Every time there's a post on HN about a new business that's the new hotness but which is not available outside the US, there are a bunch of posts asking why. Here are some possible answers:
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3027066
Another way of looking at it is that by creating the [insert country here] clone of [insert cool service here], you could probably start a niche business pretty quickly by serving the need unmet by the service you're cloning. This worked great for LoveFilm in the UK, who cloned Netflix.
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3027066
Another way of looking at it is that by creating the [insert country here] clone of [insert cool service here], you could probably start a niche business pretty quickly by serving the need unmet by the service you're cloning. This worked great for LoveFilm in the UK, who cloned Netflix.
Rules of Business: If there is a market in Europe, some european copy cat will fill the gap if the US based company is too slow.
Addendum: And then very likely the most successful European copycats will get acquired by a the same US company when it really wants to expand abroad...
If they did something interesting, i.e. are worth acquiring. More likely, they still sit on a month-old feature set of the original and then are sued out of business – or just ignored.
never saw that "sue out of business" in Europe.
There is just no way to protect "your business idea" unless you deliver + expand fast. If the German copy-cat industry is faster, you just lost and have to pay a lot (groupon).
I personally don't like copy-cats but that's the way it currently goes.
There is just no way to protect "your business idea" unless you deliver + expand fast. If the German copy-cat industry is faster, you just lost and have to pay a lot (groupon).
I personally don't like copy-cats but that's the way it currently goes.
Probably the number of countries in Europe, each of which has a slightly different banking system (never mind the general legal system or language). If I recall correctly, a lot of web services in general aren't even easily accessible for Canadians.
I'm not quite sure about the rest of Europe, but payment options in Germany are generally quite different. Credit cards are getting more popular, but most transactions are done via direct bank transfer, often via a debit card. Wasn't that popular in the US, at least where I worked. So if you're selling something, just working out a deal with Visa and MasterCard isn't enough, as a lot of people won't be able to pay that way. Some web shops here have a huge amount of different payment options, credit cards, direct transfer (via a number of different companies), mobile phone payment (yuck), paypal etc.
European startups would be more used to it, but start with a smaller original userbase, and thus less money available to expand.
I'm not quite sure about the rest of Europe, but payment options in Germany are generally quite different. Credit cards are getting more popular, but most transactions are done via direct bank transfer, often via a debit card. Wasn't that popular in the US, at least where I worked. So if you're selling something, just working out a deal with Visa and MasterCard isn't enough, as a lot of people won't be able to pay that way. Some web shops here have a huge amount of different payment options, credit cards, direct transfer (via a number of different companies), mobile phone payment (yuck), paypal etc.
European startups would be more used to it, but start with a smaller original userbase, and thus less money available to expand.
Probably the number of countries in Europe, each of which has a slightly different banking system (never mind the general legal system or language)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the EU prevent this. Isn't there laws in place to standardize things?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the EU prevent this. Isn't there laws in place to standardize things?
There are lots of lawyers who make money just with that, never mind bankers…
Of course there are provisions in place that make it easier for the banks to communicate, as this is in the interest of the banks themselves. That doesn't instantly revoke every odd tax law that came up in each country over the course of a few hundred years of financial history…
Yes, it's possible for me to wire money to anyone in Europe, if I run through a few hoops. And, well, it's not that much harder to wire it to the US or Nigeria.
That doesn't mean that this is the approach you want to take with a customer. You want to make it as easy as possible for the customer to give you money, so it would be great if you'd accept the preferred way to do that in his native country. And as I wrote above, not everybody's preferred way is via credit cards. Never mind that there's still a number of different currencies…
The EU (and esp. the Euro) made it much easier. That doesn't mean it's easy.
Of course there are provisions in place that make it easier for the banks to communicate, as this is in the interest of the banks themselves. That doesn't instantly revoke every odd tax law that came up in each country over the course of a few hundred years of financial history…
Yes, it's possible for me to wire money to anyone in Europe, if I run through a few hoops. And, well, it's not that much harder to wire it to the US or Nigeria.
That doesn't mean that this is the approach you want to take with a customer. You want to make it as easy as possible for the customer to give you money, so it would be great if you'd accept the preferred way to do that in his native country. And as I wrote above, not everybody's preferred way is via credit cards. Never mind that there's still a number of different currencies…
The EU (and esp. the Euro) made it much easier. That doesn't mean it's easy.
Wiring money to anyone in the EU _is_ easy now.
Might not be the case for UK people because they still need to deal with foreign currencies ;)
I can't remember seeing a web shop that does IBAN/SWIFT transfers (apart from one or two small-time ebay sellers). I pay via wire transfer all the time within Germany, but outside it's credit card or paypal (and even the latter quite often requires a credit card transfer for that).
It's not a big deal for corporate / professional deals with largers sums, i.e. a monthly €49 subscription. But if you're running some kind of browser game and want to get one-time €2.99 payments, you'll have to deal with a rather different demographic. Have yet to see an internatinal (at least pan-European) service that provides a good solution for that. Most of the time you have to cobble it together from all different local providers, and a lot of them look quite fishy to me (and that's saying something in that market).
It's not a big deal for corporate / professional deals with largers sums, i.e. a monthly €49 subscription. But if you're running some kind of browser game and want to get one-time €2.99 payments, you'll have to deal with a rather different demographic. Have yet to see an internatinal (at least pan-European) service that provides a good solution for that. Most of the time you have to cobble it together from all different local providers, and a lot of them look quite fishy to me (and that's saying something in that market).
Saying that you want to use our service helps us know that it is worth our while, yes... but in terms of issues, there are a few things:
The overarching theme is that the payments industry is much more complicated than it seems to the layman. There are a ton of players that you have to interact with, and they are a different set from country to country.
The payment systems are surprisingly different on the backend in each country. The US is large enough where it makes sense for us to create integrations into all of the different backends to work with all banks/processors. To do it in smaller countries might not make as much sense. We have to tread carefully because we need to ensure that our partners are great. That is something we can do in the US because our partners are a known quantity. Not the case for us abroad.
We also want to be able to provide adequate support. There is even a timezone hurdle. We provide phone support and it would suck to get calls at night.
Another part is just honestly the US market is so large and we still have room to grow here and add awesomeness that it is hard to prioritize going somewhere else. That being said, we are pursuing it because there is OBVIOUSLY a huge need there. We are still in beta so we're still working on the core product. Simultaneously we're working out a solution for the EU (difficult) and Canada (not as difficult).
Other issues include taxes, currency and currency risk, taking payments, etc. There's a lot to think about there. We really want to do it, but to do it right requires a lot of thought, and we just haven't done it yet.
If you have connections to folks that can help, please drop me a line (email in profile)
BTW, if you are interested in geeking out about how processing works (in the US), here's an ebook: http://feefighters.com/ebooks/what-is-credit-card-processing...
The overarching theme is that the payments industry is much more complicated than it seems to the layman. There are a ton of players that you have to interact with, and they are a different set from country to country.
The payment systems are surprisingly different on the backend in each country. The US is large enough where it makes sense for us to create integrations into all of the different backends to work with all banks/processors. To do it in smaller countries might not make as much sense. We have to tread carefully because we need to ensure that our partners are great. That is something we can do in the US because our partners are a known quantity. Not the case for us abroad.
We also want to be able to provide adequate support. There is even a timezone hurdle. We provide phone support and it would suck to get calls at night.
Another part is just honestly the US market is so large and we still have room to grow here and add awesomeness that it is hard to prioritize going somewhere else. That being said, we are pursuing it because there is OBVIOUSLY a huge need there. We are still in beta so we're still working on the core product. Simultaneously we're working out a solution for the EU (difficult) and Canada (not as difficult).
Other issues include taxes, currency and currency risk, taking payments, etc. There's a lot to think about there. We really want to do it, but to do it right requires a lot of thought, and we just haven't done it yet.
If you have connections to folks that can help, please drop me a line (email in profile)
BTW, if you are interested in geeking out about how processing works (in the US), here's an ebook: http://feefighters.com/ebooks/what-is-credit-card-processing...
I understand that it's a hard thing to do and it might not be as interesting as the US market. But what is interesting is that the payment/bank industry is far behind on what people want. You guys, Stripe and BankSimple are a good example of changing that.
Obviously there are a lot of people that seriously want to make this happen. So isn't there a way to help you make this work and organize something to gather information about these subjects per country?
Obviously there are a lot of people that seriously want to make this happen. So isn't there a way to help you make this work and organize something to gather information about these subjects per country?
Most people say that we need to use Paypal. But we prefer to work with Stripe for example, because it really looks like a great service and a service with a refreshing way of working with payments.
Does anyone know or have experience with using a recurring service that is accessible for European companies?