I Love My MacBook But $750 is $750(markevanstech.com)
markevanstech.com
I Love My MacBook But $750 is $750
http://www.markevanstech.com/2008/09/06/i-love-my-macbook-but-750-is-750/
10 comments
Yeah, you're right. A Civic with an Integra Type-R engine isn't an Integra Type-R, although it may go just as fast. There's more than just power metrics.
The 'Mac aura' is a big part in why Apple has been so successful. I've never understood why people tend to downplay the 'aura.' Most of us find meaning in design and aesthetics. I know I do. I made the switch to Mac after 18 years of using Windows, and every extra penny spent was well worth it; and I can speak for another 20 I know that have done and feel the same.
I've seen many comments here that express the same sentiment in the article. And it's funny, you'd think those that are trying to build a strong user base by providing their users with the best product experience possible (mostly UI focused) would see that there's great importance to be found in aesthetics.
By dismissing the 'aura' and being 'hip' you neglect a big part of what makes us humans. We all want to be cool, and we all want others to admire our design choices, at least most of us do -- a majority not accurately represented by this community. And from a purely business standpoint, positioning your product to appeal to this part of the human psyche can reap huge rewards. If you can fulfill those wants, people will pay.
The 'Mac aura' is a big part in why Apple has been so successful. I've never understood why people tend to downplay the 'aura.' Most of us find meaning in design and aesthetics. I know I do. I made the switch to Mac after 18 years of using Windows, and every extra penny spent was well worth it; and I can speak for another 20 I know that have done and feel the same.
I've seen many comments here that express the same sentiment in the article. And it's funny, you'd think those that are trying to build a strong user base by providing their users with the best product experience possible (mostly UI focused) would see that there's great importance to be found in aesthetics.
By dismissing the 'aura' and being 'hip' you neglect a big part of what makes us humans. We all want to be cool, and we all want others to admire our design choices, at least most of us do -- a majority not accurately represented by this community. And from a purely business standpoint, positioning your product to appeal to this part of the human psyche can reap huge rewards. If you can fulfill those wants, people will pay.
I agree. It's a weird phenomenon. People just don't question high performance sports cars. They seem to understand why someone would want to pay a lot of money for a porche, but they don't seem to understand why people would want to pay slightly more for a mac :/
A mac isn't even in the same league though. A luxury sports car could be 10x the price of a comparable 'standard' car. Mac's are only slightly more expensive than other some cheapy laptops.
I'll just stick with my Macs though :)
edit: That 'advert' is completely bizarre.
A mac isn't even in the same league though. A luxury sports car could be 10x the price of a comparable 'standard' car. Mac's are only slightly more expensive than other some cheapy laptops.
I'll just stick with my Macs though :)
edit: That 'advert' is completely bizarre.
I totally question why someone would purchase a high performance sport car. 10 to 100 times the price of an already very expensive thing for performance you can't legally use and a nicer looking design. They're nice, but they're not $200'000 nice for a marginal increase in power, ability, & a nice body panel design.
Plus you can get motorbikes that would beat any ferrari for the same price as a prius.
Plus you can get motorbikes that would beat any ferrari for the same price as a prius.
You forget that exotic cars arouse female interests in owners of the cars. That's what the owner pays for the price difference.
At the other hand, an exotic laptop doesn't arouse female interest in their owner. Probably they know it is just $700 difference.
At the other hand, an exotic laptop doesn't arouse female interest in their owner. Probably they know it is just $700 difference.
If you can and would pay 10 to 100 times the price, then you wouldn't describe the original thing as "very expensive".
(A prius doesn't cost an arm and a leg. boom boom.)
(A prius doesn't cost an arm and a leg. boom boom.)
If you have the money, of course you're going to spend 100x the price to get the best.
Getting a performance car isn't about the top speed, or performance in itself, it's a status symbol, a big toy, something to marvel over, something to show people, etc etc etc (I don't have one BTW.... yet).
Getting a performance car isn't about the top speed, or performance in itself, it's a status symbol, a big toy, something to marvel over, something to show people, etc etc etc (I don't have one BTW.... yet).
To me, sports cars are about appreciating the bleeding edge in engineering/design (I don't have one either.. haha). And I think anytime a product is priced at 100x it's functional equivalents it's about connoisseurship.
Now I'm not saying that macs are a work of art (though OSX is in many ways the cutting edge of UI design), but they also aren't 100x the cost, maybe just +50%.
Now I'm not saying that macs are a work of art (though OSX is in many ways the cutting edge of UI design), but they also aren't 100x the cost, maybe just +50%.
Culturally, cars are status symbols. Computers aren't (except in small geek circles, sometimes). When you pay extra for a car, you're paying for prestige. When you pay extra for a computer... well... you're paying extra. Apple is trying to change this, and for some people it seems to be working.
(As for me, I wouldn't spend extra on a fancy car either, unless it had some significant technical advantages)
(As for me, I wouldn't spend extra on a fancy car either, unless it had some significant technical advantages)
The reason the arguing never ends is because the Mac faithful deny that a Mac is actually more expensive. No one would say "but the Solstice is the same price as the Boxster, if you just drop a more powerful engine in the Solstice..."
By having a unique product in terms of operating system and hardware design, Apple avoids their products becoming commodities. Thus they aren't subject to the same economic forces as Acer (jeez, how can you compare Apple to Acer, anyway...).
I'm not an economist but I wonder how much profit they get from positioning as a luxury good and how much from having a unique, single-vendor non-commodity product "ecosystem" that includes things like the iPhone, iPod, etc.
I'm not an economist but I wonder how much profit they get from positioning as a luxury good and how much from having a unique, single-vendor non-commodity product "ecosystem" that includes things like the iPhone, iPod, etc.
Acer actually do make some nice laptops, no, really, I'm not kidding. There are a few sexy/slim/light ones.
But they are not the laptops they sell for $399. Those are pretty much not laptops but rather movable computers - they serve _a_ purpose, but not the same purpose as a portable laptop.
But they are not the laptops they sell for $399. Those are pretty much not laptops but rather movable computers - they serve _a_ purpose, but not the same purpose as a portable laptop.
If the supercar experience is what you want in a computer you'll be running unix or something more obscure on souped up hardware. Maybe the Mac Pro rates here (it would be a lot more certain if you could practically separate Darwin from the candy), but there's no way the macbook equates to a supercar. Careful with those car anologies - I have heard people make remarks like that about Volvos.
I intentionally picked the boxster because it is by no means a supercar. It's a reasonably priced sports car (<50k) from a well respected brand.
The analogy works for any class of car, or any consumer product. That's the argument, really -- that this is a pervasive phenomenon, but we only seem hear about it in regards to laptops.
The analogy works for any class of car, or any consumer product. That's the argument, really -- that this is a pervasive phenomenon, but we only seem hear about it in regards to laptops.
My wife replaced a HP Amada with a MacBook. The MacBook had some early troubles but has been stable ever since. Two years or so.
The HP lasted about a year before the power cord connector came away from the main board and had to be resoldered. This happened a couple of times before we gave up on the machine. I bet the landfills are full of these things.
The MacBook has worked out vastly cheaper than the HP over the actual ownership experience, even if the upfront cost was a bit more.
The HP lasted about a year before the power cord connector came away from the main board and had to be resoldered. This happened a couple of times before we gave up on the machine. I bet the landfills are full of these things.
The MacBook has worked out vastly cheaper than the HP over the actual ownership experience, even if the upfront cost was a bit more.
HP's gone downmarket in a big way, pushing lots of $700 notebooks into Costco, Target, Office Max, etc. They're the only laptops you see in Costco anymore, I strenuously avoid them. I'll stick with thinkpads and Toshiba for XP/Ubuntu dual booters.
i commented on teh Mark Evans blog that macbooks have one feature no other laptop under about $1700 has, the DVI out. That, Time Machine, textmate, iphoto, firewire, a listenable sound card, and a few other features are easily worth $750 canadian.
I will say that i've had 4 mac laptops, 2 worked great (G4 powerbook and Macbook), 2 are problematic. Another powerbook had its logic board replaced 3 x (twice in last 5 months), and i've experienced spontaneous freezes on Leopard a few times when quitting Firefox or textmate. This i consider a serious issue.
i commented on teh Mark Evans blog that macbooks have one feature no other laptop under about $1700 has, the DVI out. That, Time Machine, textmate, iphoto, firewire, a listenable sound card, and a few other features are easily worth $750 canadian.
I will say that i've had 4 mac laptops, 2 worked great (G4 powerbook and Macbook), 2 are problematic. Another powerbook had its logic board replaced 3 x (twice in last 5 months), and i've experienced spontaneous freezes on Leopard a few times when quitting Firefox or textmate. This i consider a serious issue.
I've never owned one, but I hear that thinkpads are also reliable, and they're still significantly cheaper than Macs.
Yes, actually I'd concur with the reliability. My TP 600X probably holds the record for being the longest continuously useful portable I've ever owned.
Thinkpads sell at about the same price as macs, if you choose the proper "options" to really make the choice comparable -- the base macs are a mid/upper thinkpad. I own both, I know first-hand. And both are very reliable, as far as I can tell. The macs lasted 4 years each; the thinkpad is 2 years old and kicking very well. We'll see what happens.
I noticed that too when I was in the market for a new laptop. I ended up getting the MacBook because I was fond of OS X (legally...and hackintoshes are a pain) and because the thing just looked better.
Maybe it's just me, but if I were spending any significant amount of time with something I would like it if it looked good. Thinkpads were merely functional and no more.
Maybe it's just me, but if I were spending any significant amount of time with something I would like it if it looked good. Thinkpads were merely functional and no more.
Maybe at some price/performance points, but in April I compared a low-end MacBook Pro with a similarlly spec'd 15" Thinkpad, and found that the Thinkpad was something like $500 cheaper. If you want a 15" screen, you have to buy a MBP, which starts around $2000.
I ended up getting the Mac, and I'm happy with it, but not sure if it was worth the extra money. I still prefer Linux after working with a Mac for a few months.
I ended up getting the Mac, and I'm happy with it, but not sure if it was worth the extra money. I still prefer Linux after working with a Mac for a few months.
How much do you value your time?
My laptop is my primary tool. Day in day out.
Even at $75/h it pays off in 10 hours.
My laptop is my primary tool. Day in day out.
Even at $75/h it pays off in 10 hours.
Have you ever bought a computer at the apple store? It takes more than an hour just for them to go through their sales pitch while they try to sell you on apple care. God forbid you know what you want, and just want to get out of there with it in hand.
The Apple products are fun to use but given the price premium the build quality is questionable, and the machine itself is rather slow.
Jer
The Apple products are fun to use but given the price premium the build quality is questionable, and the machine itself is rather slow.
Jer
I've been in and out of an Apple store in 10 minutes. Just go in knowing what you want. Tell the salesmen/woman clearly, right up front. If you don't want applecare, list it like a feature. 2 gig ram, dvd-burner, no applecare. Are you sure? Yes. You don't even have to go wait in line at a cash register. The sales guy just checks you out.
At circuit city, I got two spiels about extended warranties. One from the sales floor guy. One from the cashier. It also took 25 minutes to "find" the computer I wanted in the back. And this was for a preconfigured toshiba from the display.
At circuit city, I got two spiels about extended warranties. One from the sales floor guy. One from the cashier. It also took 25 minutes to "find" the computer I wanted in the back. And this was for a preconfigured toshiba from the display.
I have been in and out of the Apple store in about 2 minutes buying my last laptop.
I said give me that Macbook, and while the guy in front of me took my credit card with his wireless POS device, another guy grabbed me the laptop.
I really find the anti-Apple movement interesting. I am not sure how to explain it - but it is more about passion than substance than the pro-Apple movement.
I said give me that Macbook, and while the guy in front of me took my credit card with his wireless POS device, another guy grabbed me the laptop.
I really find the anti-Apple movement interesting. I am not sure how to explain it - but it is more about passion than substance than the pro-Apple movement.
I once had to tell a guy at the Apple store to cut his spiel short and that I was going to be the easiest sale he had all day, he just needed to get what I wanted from the back and move on to the next customer.
You must have no expenses, amazing. Do tell.
I'm confused. My laptop is my source of earnings. Every hour I spend fiddling with it is an hour I don't get paid for.
What am I missing?
What am I missing?
That I like fiddling with my laptop, and so hours spent on it are leisure time (valued at $0) rather than work (valued at $lots).
For most people your point is valid, but this is a hacker site, no?
(I was a actually a bit disapointed with I installed Ubuntu 8.04 - previously it had been great fun as I had to mess with all sorts of thigns to get it to work perfectly. This time it was all a bit too easy, even wireless and 3D were no-configuration installs. One opportunity to learn new things gone.)
For most people your point is valid, but this is a hacker site, no?
(I was a actually a bit disapointed with I installed Ubuntu 8.04 - previously it had been great fun as I had to mess with all sorts of thigns to get it to work perfectly. This time it was all a bit too easy, even wireless and 3D were no-configuration installs. One opportunity to learn new things gone.)
> This time it was all a bit too easy, even wireless and 3D were no-configuration installs. One opportunity to learn new things gone
I for one have plenty of other opportunities to learn new things, all a lot more appealing than an "opportunity" like this, which I have no choice but to pursue (if I want to use my wifi network that is). Learning the intricacies of how wifi works/is configured under Linux is of little interest to me -- I'd rather spend my time getting through the stack of books on my desk. Or writing code. Or a hundred other things.
I presume this is true for most of us here.
I for one have plenty of other opportunities to learn new things, all a lot more appealing than an "opportunity" like this, which I have no choice but to pursue (if I want to use my wifi network that is). Learning the intricacies of how wifi works/is configured under Linux is of little interest to me -- I'd rather spend my time getting through the stack of books on my desk. Or writing code. Or a hundred other things.
I presume this is true for most of us here.
For something you use every day, and on which you may work, $750 is really not very much at all.
Laptops are all really cheap these days. When they're all cheap, you may as well get the best IMHO.
Laptops are all really cheap these days. When they're all cheap, you may as well get the best IMHO.
Summary: "several products exist with different specifications and prices"
...
...
Can we please stop doing this?
These simplistic one sentence summaries can be applied to almost any piece.
Summary of the Constitution: "We are entitled to various rights, and there are a bunch of laws that help us protect them."
These simplistic one sentence summaries can be applied to almost any piece.
Summary of the Constitution: "We are entitled to various rights, and there are a bunch of laws that help us protect them."
Summary: stop doing things I don't like.
:p
More seriously, his post states the cost and some specifications of a macbook, and a low-cost windows laptop and that people might consider price and "mac aura" before buying. He doesn't make any useful, interesting or funny observations, conclusions, assertions or explanations. That's his entire post.
Not, "here's why I think the mac is more expensive" or "what will happen to the mac as cheap windows laptops get more powerful" or "if the mac aura is the main reason for the cost then it means XYZ", or "in previous economic downturns, mac prices changed like XYZ" or "Based on this, I predict the next device from apple will be an XYZ" or "I've built a mac price predictor" or anything. Not even as simple as "The mac is $750 more and I think that's too much".
"makes you wonder." - makes him wonder what? "at first glance it seems like a great deal" - what about at second and further glances? "I know it's apples and oranges, they're different" - how about discussing the differences in detail? "saving $750 at a time of economic uncertainly could resonate with many consumers." - discuss. Explain. Reveal insight. Predict.
No, none of that. Just "two products exist with different specifications and prices".
It's a simplistic one sentence summary for a simplistic too-many-sentence blog post.
Where's the hacking? the news? the opinion? Where's the content?
You love your macbook? fine, make it a four word blog post. That would be better. A passionate outburst for a product so unusually, distinctively good that you can't resist being happy that it simply exists!
:p
More seriously, his post states the cost and some specifications of a macbook, and a low-cost windows laptop and that people might consider price and "mac aura" before buying. He doesn't make any useful, interesting or funny observations, conclusions, assertions or explanations. That's his entire post.
Not, "here's why I think the mac is more expensive" or "what will happen to the mac as cheap windows laptops get more powerful" or "if the mac aura is the main reason for the cost then it means XYZ", or "in previous economic downturns, mac prices changed like XYZ" or "Based on this, I predict the next device from apple will be an XYZ" or "I've built a mac price predictor" or anything. Not even as simple as "The mac is $750 more and I think that's too much".
"makes you wonder." - makes him wonder what? "at first glance it seems like a great deal" - what about at second and further glances? "I know it's apples and oranges, they're different" - how about discussing the differences in detail? "saving $750 at a time of economic uncertainly could resonate with many consumers." - discuss. Explain. Reveal insight. Predict.
No, none of that. Just "two products exist with different specifications and prices".
It's a simplistic one sentence summary for a simplistic too-many-sentence blog post.
Where's the hacking? the news? the opinion? Where's the content?
You love your macbook? fine, make it a four word blog post. That would be better. A passionate outburst for a product so unusually, distinctively good that you can't resist being happy that it simply exists!
He forgot to mention the Acer Extreme has an AMD Sempron Processor and the Macbook has an Intel Core 2 Duo, which probably reduces the price of the Acer by a lot.
do i have to be the only one to say that i like my MBP because it looks good? jeez, i have to look at this thing sitting in my lounge every single day, as well as the hours i spend on it. seriously, i go to my friends houses and they pull out these ugly chunks of plastic - i don't care what it runs, whatever floats your boat, but why choose something ugly? begone with your specs bean counter - i yearn for style.
speaking as a former windows user, macs are worth the money given the frustation it saves you and the tech support you no longer have to do for your family. (I tried using linux as a desktop but it was just too unfamiliar from windows comparatively)
I think the guy is missing the big picture
I think the guy is missing the big picture
[deleted]
Why people insist on macs is beyond me...get a kickass laptop for $1000, load up ubuntu or fedora or mint or openSUSE, and call it a day.
Oh well, install wireless drivers and graphics drivers, and THEN call it a day. Still, as far as I care, beats buying into the Mac rich-boy fandom.
News for you: LINUX ISNT THAT HARD
Oh well, install wireless drivers and graphics drivers, and THEN call it a day. Still, as far as I care, beats buying into the Mac rich-boy fandom.
News for you: LINUX ISNT THAT HARD
In self-reflection, why did I comment negatively about Mac on YC News, where everyone is an Apple fanboy...?
Oh well.
Oh well.
It's just the way it is. Of course "the way it is" happens to embody a significant amount of contemporary economic theory.