Ask HN: Mac OS X 10.7 Lion, first impressions?
New look, full screen apps, Mission Control, Mail, Safari, "natural" scrolling and new gestures (I returned to the trackpad), Versions, some issues (mine with the new SMBX). What do you think so far?
12 comments
I found that I liked things that I didn't think I would:
- I like the new scroll bars, though I had to immediately reverse the setting because I couldn't get used to their behavior (probably right for a track pad, but wrong for a mouse scroll wheel). It is even shocking how useful they can be, e.g. in column views such as file save dialogs I don't think I realized before how much space was wasted by scroll bars.
- I also don't mind Launch Pad, although Launch Pad still seems like it tries too hard to shoehorn in an exact implementation from iOS. A big screen with a mouse should yield more flexibility; it would be especially nice to be able to leave spaces between icons and to group them while still showing all icons instead of putting them in a folder like iOS does.
- Other random changes to the UI are generally pretty good. Though I think sliders suck (they look too dim and unclickable now), and the decision to make tab segments metallic seems out of place with the Aqua look that remains everywhere else. Similarly, darkening the blue shade of menu selections seems mismatched compared to everything else.
Many features are maddeningly useless on dual-display machines. Full Screen inexplicably blanks out an entire display with no apparent way to make use of the other one; it even moves windows that started on the 2nd display over to the first before entering Full Screen mode! Mission Control is obviously aware of multiple screens, but the way they did it still seems kludgey to me. It is frankly as if Apple didn't even bother to try supporting multiple displays well, even though they're perfectly happy to sell you systems that encourage this (expensive) hardware arrangement. Like Xcode, Instruments, iTunes and other new one-window apps, this trend is extremely irritating because it's as if the entire potential of my display is being actively shunned by the software side.
Animations are about half-and-half; some are quite nice (like for alert boxes), but most are simply too slow and weren't user-tested properly. Full Screen for instance takes a ridiculously long time, as does switching Spaces, and these delays are unacceptable.
There is a general sluggishness to the new OS in areas besides animation. Sometimes applications seem to take longer to open, and windows take longer to open. It is not clear why.
I prefer to minimize windows into the application icon, and this is kind of a step backwards on Lion: Apple no longer shows these in Exposé (Mission Control). The only apparent way to get them back is via a new dock menu item "Show All Windows". In other words, that preference is no longer useful.
I think the new Mail is brilliantly designed.
The inclusion of FaceTime is nice I guess, but I know absolutely no one who uses it (the other instant messengers like Skype are king now, I'm sorry to say).
In general, a pretty good upgrade, and absolutely worth thirty bucks.
- I like the new scroll bars, though I had to immediately reverse the setting because I couldn't get used to their behavior (probably right for a track pad, but wrong for a mouse scroll wheel). It is even shocking how useful they can be, e.g. in column views such as file save dialogs I don't think I realized before how much space was wasted by scroll bars.
- I also don't mind Launch Pad, although Launch Pad still seems like it tries too hard to shoehorn in an exact implementation from iOS. A big screen with a mouse should yield more flexibility; it would be especially nice to be able to leave spaces between icons and to group them while still showing all icons instead of putting them in a folder like iOS does.
- Other random changes to the UI are generally pretty good. Though I think sliders suck (they look too dim and unclickable now), and the decision to make tab segments metallic seems out of place with the Aqua look that remains everywhere else. Similarly, darkening the blue shade of menu selections seems mismatched compared to everything else.
Many features are maddeningly useless on dual-display machines. Full Screen inexplicably blanks out an entire display with no apparent way to make use of the other one; it even moves windows that started on the 2nd display over to the first before entering Full Screen mode! Mission Control is obviously aware of multiple screens, but the way they did it still seems kludgey to me. It is frankly as if Apple didn't even bother to try supporting multiple displays well, even though they're perfectly happy to sell you systems that encourage this (expensive) hardware arrangement. Like Xcode, Instruments, iTunes and other new one-window apps, this trend is extremely irritating because it's as if the entire potential of my display is being actively shunned by the software side.
Animations are about half-and-half; some are quite nice (like for alert boxes), but most are simply too slow and weren't user-tested properly. Full Screen for instance takes a ridiculously long time, as does switching Spaces, and these delays are unacceptable.
There is a general sluggishness to the new OS in areas besides animation. Sometimes applications seem to take longer to open, and windows take longer to open. It is not clear why.
I prefer to minimize windows into the application icon, and this is kind of a step backwards on Lion: Apple no longer shows these in Exposé (Mission Control). The only apparent way to get them back is via a new dock menu item "Show All Windows". In other words, that preference is no longer useful.
I think the new Mail is brilliantly designed.
The inclusion of FaceTime is nice I guess, but I know absolutely no one who uses it (the other instant messengers like Skype are king now, I'm sorry to say).
In general, a pretty good upgrade, and absolutely worth thirty bucks.
Disclaimer: was running GM for a few weeks.
Love:
* Never been a Spaces user, neither do I use Exposé but I found myself using Mission Control more and more. It feels very natural to my workflow possibly because I hate having an empty spaces around and partly due to gestures.
* Full screen apps is awesome, especially if you use web apps. Currently I created a new Safari window in fullscreen running IRCCloud, I could "peek" that window simply by three-fingers swiping to the right to see if there's any activities in channel I'm on (but not switch to it). I think more (desktop) apps should utilize this. Put some activities on left and right side of the window to allow peeking without leaving the current desktop.
* I thought scrolling was stupid at first, but with Trackpad and a mindset of "control the content, not widget", it kind of make sense.
* Mail.app is a bless for non-Gmail IMAP user like me. It has almost everything I want from a Mail client. My only complaint is that it lacks proper email address aliasing support.
* FileVault 2 no longer randomly eats up my data and transparent to all applications due to the fact it's now disk-level encryption rather than an encrypted disk image. Never did a benchmark, but the performance impact doesn't seems noticeable.
* 256 COLORS SUPPORT IN TERMINAL.
Dislike:
* "New window" effect, it adds a lot of delay and adds nothing in terms of usability.
Unsure:
* I want to like Versions, but couldn't get myself to like it. There's this one time when I open an existing file, accidentally delete half of it, close the window to try to restore its previous state but TextEdit simply overwrite the file on exit.
Love:
* Never been a Spaces user, neither do I use Exposé but I found myself using Mission Control more and more. It feels very natural to my workflow possibly because I hate having an empty spaces around and partly due to gestures.
* Full screen apps is awesome, especially if you use web apps. Currently I created a new Safari window in fullscreen running IRCCloud, I could "peek" that window simply by three-fingers swiping to the right to see if there's any activities in channel I'm on (but not switch to it). I think more (desktop) apps should utilize this. Put some activities on left and right side of the window to allow peeking without leaving the current desktop.
* I thought scrolling was stupid at first, but with Trackpad and a mindset of "control the content, not widget", it kind of make sense.
* Mail.app is a bless for non-Gmail IMAP user like me. It has almost everything I want from a Mail client. My only complaint is that it lacks proper email address aliasing support.
* FileVault 2 no longer randomly eats up my data and transparent to all applications due to the fact it's now disk-level encryption rather than an encrypted disk image. Never did a benchmark, but the performance impact doesn't seems noticeable.
* 256 COLORS SUPPORT IN TERMINAL.
Dislike:
* "New window" effect, it adds a lot of delay and adds nothing in terms of usability.
Unsure:
* I want to like Versions, but couldn't get myself to like it. There's this one time when I open an existing file, accidentally delete half of it, close the window to try to restore its previous state but TextEdit simply overwrite the file on exit.
Scrolling was stupid. Changed, even with a magic mouse.
Airport Express configuration was less robust (couldn't save config options), but the host router was pure crap. Somehow SL's utility could deal with the QoS issues.
Couldn't install automatically with a tweaked boot camp install, gave up, added a partition and am going back-and-forth migrating. The installer was amazingly robust, running from HDD, external HDD and thumb drive, however it crashed and burned with my boot camp issue. It's like that Larson cartoon of the kid who couldn't get into the school.
Scrolling is jerkier than SL, despite having a pristine system. I assume it's the new install of Safari.
Mail is ok, it seemed to accept the [Gmail] prefix better, and was easy to configure.
Full screen is nice on a single display. Hopefully Apple fixes the dual monitor issues before I buy a secondary display. Full screen terminal.app is great, though. Especially with sliding back and forth.
I really, really like the new lock screen. It's my biggest gripe with the OS since I started using a mac back in '04. I no longer am jealous of Windows 7 users.
Gestures aren't as configurable as I'd like. I miss two-finger back, and would like three finger space change.
Spotlight's global sheet is wider; hooray!
I like being able to hide the useless options in system preferences. No longer does "Ink" have to leave a widow option in the row.
The new scroll bars are mediocre, they apparently don't add width to the containing box's size, so in NetNewsWire they overlay the unread items.
Airport Express configuration was less robust (couldn't save config options), but the host router was pure crap. Somehow SL's utility could deal with the QoS issues.
Couldn't install automatically with a tweaked boot camp install, gave up, added a partition and am going back-and-forth migrating. The installer was amazingly robust, running from HDD, external HDD and thumb drive, however it crashed and burned with my boot camp issue. It's like that Larson cartoon of the kid who couldn't get into the school.
Scrolling is jerkier than SL, despite having a pristine system. I assume it's the new install of Safari.
Mail is ok, it seemed to accept the [Gmail] prefix better, and was easy to configure.
Full screen is nice on a single display. Hopefully Apple fixes the dual monitor issues before I buy a secondary display. Full screen terminal.app is great, though. Especially with sliding back and forth.
I really, really like the new lock screen. It's my biggest gripe with the OS since I started using a mac back in '04. I no longer am jealous of Windows 7 users.
Gestures aren't as configurable as I'd like. I miss two-finger back, and would like three finger space change.
Spotlight's global sheet is wider; hooray!
I like being able to hide the useless options in system preferences. No longer does "Ink" have to leave a widow option in the row.
The new scroll bars are mediocre, they apparently don't add width to the containing box's size, so in NetNewsWire they overlay the unread items.
On my macbook (because I suspect some of these things might not work quite so well on a desktop without a magic pad).
It took me a day to get used to the multi gesture, now I'm loving it. Oddly enough my favorite new UI feature is the launch pad, which I heckled when I saw screen shots of. The iPad interface is very clean as easy to navigate/find stuff (after a reorder) compared to my messy application folder.
The hardest part was the reverse in scroll, I had to completely relearn that behave. I initially checked the box to reverse it back to normal, and then I realized they where right in context to left and right scrolling. So I swapped it back, and I think I made the correct choice now... haven't tried a mouse however... 20 years of mouse behavior is not going to change easy I can guarantee.
The new finder preview is FAST, and show images at true size which is awesome.
I'm toying with turning off the dock lights for whats active ATM after reading an article to do with focus. When something isn't running you aren't tempted to toy with it, you stay on task. It feels weird at first, but then remembering everything is viewable in Exposé any way I'm letting go.
Dropping java support was an unneeded annoyance. Having to download a 10.7 specific version made me groan (but I suspect it may have been part of the security upgrades).
Overall I'm extremely happy with it. Would love to try a new full screen apps to see if it increases focus or not, but currently none of my favorite apps support it.
It took me a day to get used to the multi gesture, now I'm loving it. Oddly enough my favorite new UI feature is the launch pad, which I heckled when I saw screen shots of. The iPad interface is very clean as easy to navigate/find stuff (after a reorder) compared to my messy application folder.
The hardest part was the reverse in scroll, I had to completely relearn that behave. I initially checked the box to reverse it back to normal, and then I realized they where right in context to left and right scrolling. So I swapped it back, and I think I made the correct choice now... haven't tried a mouse however... 20 years of mouse behavior is not going to change easy I can guarantee.
The new finder preview is FAST, and show images at true size which is awesome.
I'm toying with turning off the dock lights for whats active ATM after reading an article to do with focus. When something isn't running you aren't tempted to toy with it, you stay on task. It feels weird at first, but then remembering everything is viewable in Exposé any way I'm letting go.
Dropping java support was an unneeded annoyance. Having to download a 10.7 specific version made me groan (but I suspect it may have been part of the security upgrades).
Overall I'm extremely happy with it. Would love to try a new full screen apps to see if it increases focus or not, but currently none of my favorite apps support it.
All in all a very pleasant upgrade. After reading about all the new features and iOS-like feel, I was surprised at how the changes seem really gradual.
pros: still the most elegant OS, the performance seems a bit snappier (just my feeling). cons: The grayness of all the UI elements (e.g. Finder windows) together with the more square appearance of the buttons creates a more somber, less playful atmosphere.
pros: still the most elegant OS, the performance seems a bit snappier (just my feeling). cons: The grayness of all the UI elements (e.g. Finder windows) together with the more square appearance of the buttons creates a more somber, less playful atmosphere.
As someone who did use Spaces quite a lot for separating different projects/tools, I'm a little sad about Mission Control. I agree with the new unified direction, but the functionality is a step backwards. You can't rearrange desktops anymore, which completely cripples it for me.
The nicest thing about Spaces was that I could use my spatial memory to keep track of my applications, ie "oh, yes, that editor window is to the left of this other one, and the browser is underneath". Unfortunately, now it's more like "which tiny black editor window is the one I want? I can't see from the expose view, time to swipe like mad until I find it".
I'm sure they'll fix it in a future update, but right now it does, unfortunately, suck. It's surprising, because the fix seems so simple - the old Spaces let you rearrange desktops by dragging, so it's not like the interface metaphor isn't figured out. The OS can rearrange them for you, so the backend must support it. Maybe they just ran out of time.
The nicest thing about Spaces was that I could use my spatial memory to keep track of my applications, ie "oh, yes, that editor window is to the left of this other one, and the browser is underneath". Unfortunately, now it's more like "which tiny black editor window is the one I want? I can't see from the expose view, time to swipe like mad until I find it".
I'm sure they'll fix it in a future update, but right now it does, unfortunately, suck. It's surprising, because the fix seems so simple - the old Spaces let you rearrange desktops by dragging, so it's not like the interface metaphor isn't figured out. The OS can rearrange them for you, so the backend must support it. Maybe they just ran out of time.
Fully agree. I wish they'd left Spaces in, maybe just enabled Mission Control by default. I would pay to have spaces back, rather than MC.
I think it's interesting how every single person I work with initially hated the new scrolling, but after a couple days of using it has come to believe we've been scrolling wrong for the past 18 years.
Nudging the content inside the window the way you want it to move actually is more natural than adjusting the perspective through which you look at the content. Definitely takes some getting used to, though.
Nudging the content inside the window the way you want it to move actually is more natural than adjusting the perspective through which you look at the content. Definitely takes some getting used to, though.
My biggest gripe is some of the apps, drivers, etc... are not compatible. Some don't work at all, some have limited functionality. Things behave weird (in an unnatural way). Outside of these things so far, the OS is a major improvement. If anything, I would recommend holding off on upgrading just yet for those that haven't. I went back to Snow Leopard for now.
Did you try booting in 32 bit mode, I have found most of the apps that did not work would work if I booted into 32 bit mode.
Sorry for the late response but I did not. I have 8gb of ram and would prefer to stay with 64-bit. That said, I'm now on Lion since most of the updates have been done since my original comment. A few minor pains but overall I am okay with it now.
Major improvement why?
I have never used Spaces before, but ever since I've installed Lion, Mission Control has been amazing. Of course, this is partly due to the trackpad, which allows me to switch between them with a couple fingers. If I were on a desktop machine, I doubt Mission Control would be as convenient.
Magic Trackpad makes it just as awesome on a desktop machine.
like:
* Loving full-screen terminal.
* Haven't tried AirDrop, but it seems useful (especially in a small office setting).
dislike:
* The new scrolling direction. It felt foreign, whereas on an iDevice it felt natural. Changed it back to the old way.
* The app opening 'grow' animation (most apparent with safari). It makes things feel slower.
* Large icons in the finder sidebar. Changed to 'small' and it seems better.
* Loving full-screen terminal.
* Haven't tried AirDrop, but it seems useful (especially in a small office setting).
dislike:
* The new scrolling direction. It felt foreign, whereas on an iDevice it felt natural. Changed it back to the old way.
* The app opening 'grow' animation (most apparent with safari). It makes things feel slower.
* Large icons in the finder sidebar. Changed to 'small' and it seems better.
I kept the default scrolling direction to see how long it would take to get used to the reversed motions. After 2-3 days you switch over without much of a problem. I did have trouble using the scrollwheel on the mouse of a Windows machine recently, though.
hmm. I might have to give it another try and see if it feels better after a few days then. Thanks.
After upgrading, my wireless connection drops every five minutes or so. After a few days of this I switched to using my Windows 7 install primarily.
lion's the new vista