I'm almost homeless: Why you should not go outside Airbnb's payment system
65 comments
I guess I should pass this piece of advice on. If you have roaches in your house (or anywhere for that matter) there is a simple cheap effective way to get rid of them.
Boric acid. Just sprinkle it around the place (its not toxic to humans, or comparable to salt anyway), on the sideboards, and anywhere else the roaches are likely to go. It will kill them all pretty quickly.
I recently had issues with the neighbor having lots of them and boric acid really controlled them. Before applying I saw at least a dozen on any given day. Afterwards I was (un)lucky to see one a week.
Boric acid. Just sprinkle it around the place (its not toxic to humans, or comparable to salt anyway), on the sideboards, and anywhere else the roaches are likely to go. It will kill them all pretty quickly.
I recently had issues with the neighbor having lots of them and boric acid really controlled them. Before applying I saw at least a dozen on any given day. Afterwards I was (un)lucky to see one a week.
> (its not toxic to humans, or comparable to salt anyway)
This is FALSE, and very dangerous advice for people with infants.
Quote from NSW Food Authority [1]:
"Borax, also known as sodium borate (Na2B4O7.10H2), and boric acid (H3BO3) are colourless, salt-like substance that can also be a white powder."
"What are the symptoms of Borax poisoning?
Some of the symptoms of Borax ingestion include headache, fever, nausea, vomiting, and red eyes.
Symptoms may appear 2 to 4 hours after ingesting Borax.
If you have ingested Borax, or come into contact with someone with these symptoms, you should call the NSW Poisons Information 24 hour hot line on 13 11 26 and seek immediate medial attention at your local doctor’s surgery or hospital.
If large amounts of Borax are consumed, acute kidney failure and death may result."
Not to say it isn't good at killing roaches, but please don't use it believing it's non-toxic.
[1] http://www.foodauthority.nsw.gov.au/consumers/other-food-top...
This is FALSE, and very dangerous advice for people with infants.
Quote from NSW Food Authority [1]:
"Borax, also known as sodium borate (Na2B4O7.10H2), and boric acid (H3BO3) are colourless, salt-like substance that can also be a white powder."
"What are the symptoms of Borax poisoning?
Some of the symptoms of Borax ingestion include headache, fever, nausea, vomiting, and red eyes.
Symptoms may appear 2 to 4 hours after ingesting Borax.
If you have ingested Borax, or come into contact with someone with these symptoms, you should call the NSW Poisons Information 24 hour hot line on 13 11 26 and seek immediate medial attention at your local doctor’s surgery or hospital.
If large amounts of Borax are consumed, acute kidney failure and death may result."
Not to say it isn't good at killing roaches, but please don't use it believing it's non-toxic.
[1] http://www.foodauthority.nsw.gov.au/consumers/other-food-top...
Boric acid is reasonably toxic. Borax is "nontoxic", which is to say, the lethal dose for borax is similar to the lethal dose for salt or baking soda — about half a pound for any of the three, in my case. Alle Ding' sind Gift, und nichts ohn' Gift; allein die Dosis macht, daß ein Ding kein Gift ist.
There are other pesticides that are less dangerous to babies.
There are other pesticides that are less dangerous to babies.
That site doesn't list how much you need to consume to have any affects hence my statement that its comparable to salt, IE if you eat a lot of salt you will be in a bad way too.
That was my previous understanding though. If you have any sources to show what sort of consumption you need to have any sort of toxic effect I would be very interested.
Something people reading this may not know is that Chinese restaurants did use it for a long time as a meat tenderiser and still do in China and presumably in other parts of the world too.
That was my previous understanding though. If you have any sources to show what sort of consumption you need to have any sort of toxic effect I would be very interested.
Something people reading this may not know is that Chinese restaurants did use it for a long time as a meat tenderiser and still do in China and presumably in other parts of the world too.
I read an interesting article a few days ago about how borax was used in the US as a meat preservative up through the early 20th century, along with more toxic substances like copper sulfate and formaldehyde. In those days there were no food safety regulations, so manufacturers used whatever they wanted.
Suspicious of the safety of these additives, a chemist from the U.S. Department of Agriculture formed volunteer "Poison Squads" to test if these substances were actually safe or not. The article discusses his work, and is worth a look.
"Death in the Pot": http://www.laphamsquarterly.org/essays/death-in-the-pot.php?...
Suspicious of the safety of these additives, a chemist from the U.S. Department of Agriculture formed volunteer "Poison Squads" to test if these substances were actually safe or not. The article discusses his work, and is worth a look.
"Death in the Pot": http://www.laphamsquarterly.org/essays/death-in-the-pot.php?...
As a resident from Louisiana and now living in Texas, I would tell you that spreading Boric acid is only attempting to address the symptom, but not the problem.
When you see one roach, you can rest assured that 25 more are in the walls. See 5, and yes, there are 125 roaches waiting in the wings.
When you see one roach, you can rest assured that 25 more are in the walls. See 5, and yes, there are 125 roaches waiting in the wings.
The nice thing about boric acid is that it will kill them later when they are in the walls etc... Roaches will eat their fallen, and ingest the boric acid again killing those ones too.
Winged ones you will need to control with screens and closed doors but believe me when I say that's easier to do then get rid of the ones crawling around.
Winged ones you will need to control with screens and closed doors but believe me when I say that's easier to do then get rid of the ones crawling around.
"The host isn't returning our calls. He finally comes around the next day.
We tell him that we are leaving and that we can't stay because of the roaches.
He claims that roaches are just a part of life in Texas and are completely normal.
He does give us back $160 dollars in cash though and tells us he will give us the rest later when he gets it. He says he will keep in touch"
Sorry, but I think you're being unreasonable by asking for too much. It's the same as the adage about Fast/Good/Cheap--pick two, you can never have all three. It sounds like the owner was busy, not avoiding you--he comes over the next day and that's avoiding? He gives you part of your money back and doesn't lie about the issue. I'm failing to see a problem here.
I also find the entire story highly exaggerated: An apple that we bought and put on the counter had been cored out by what I imagine was an army of roaches that night.
----
"When I see him he tells me he moved back in and took the place off airbnb and doesn't feel he owes us anything because we should have sucked it up and dealt with the roaches.
I say I will feel it was fair if we pay half, and he says life isn't fair."
Again, this is completely reasonable. He owes you nothing, you didn't sign a contract. You had unrealistic expectations that under any circumstances would have been disappointed no matter what the situation.
Edit: I'm becoming more convinced this story is entirely fake to begin with looking at what questions the OP has chosen to answer/ignore.
We tell him that we are leaving and that we can't stay because of the roaches.
He claims that roaches are just a part of life in Texas and are completely normal.
He does give us back $160 dollars in cash though and tells us he will give us the rest later when he gets it. He says he will keep in touch"
Sorry, but I think you're being unreasonable by asking for too much. It's the same as the adage about Fast/Good/Cheap--pick two, you can never have all three. It sounds like the owner was busy, not avoiding you--he comes over the next day and that's avoiding? He gives you part of your money back and doesn't lie about the issue. I'm failing to see a problem here.
I also find the entire story highly exaggerated: An apple that we bought and put on the counter had been cored out by what I imagine was an army of roaches that night.
----
"When I see him he tells me he moved back in and took the place off airbnb and doesn't feel he owes us anything because we should have sucked it up and dealt with the roaches.
I say I will feel it was fair if we pay half, and he says life isn't fair."
Again, this is completely reasonable. He owes you nothing, you didn't sign a contract. You had unrealistic expectations that under any circumstances would have been disappointed no matter what the situation.
Edit: I'm becoming more convinced this story is entirely fake to begin with looking at what questions the OP has chosen to answer/ignore.
Roaches are unpleasant, and I empathize, but Texas is going through a historic drought right now. You can expect to find thirsty pests heading indoors.
And I haven't heard of $500/month rent in Austin in over a decade. For rent that cheap, expect hardships.
And I haven't heard of $500/month rent in Austin in over a decade. For rent that cheap, expect hardships.
Yes, cobralibre is correct. I live in Austin and even with a regularly-scheduled pest treatment, we are still getting lots of bugs in the house. It's really hot out there and it's driving the bugs indoors.
Our original hypothesis was that we could share a master bedroom in a house. Craigslist has lots of $500 a month rooms for rent. We are trying to keep costs low.
We learned this was a bad idea and have pivoted, and our planning on renting a 1 bedroom for our office as soon as possible.
We learned this was a bad idea and have pivoted, and our planning on renting a 1 bedroom for our office as soon as possible.
Just roaches dude. Yeah, it's a PITA, but at worst you could've called an exterminator and saved several hundred bucks. Due dilligence, and don't be a wimp.
Dude that wouldn't have even worked because the place wasn't properly sealed off from the outside. You could kill all the roaches inside and new ones would just come back.
Any good exterminator would properly address the outside of the structure. No structure is immune to roaches.
Also because I know someone is going to say I didn't plan ahead or came on too tight a budget... I know. I'm living on the edge and pushing things but it will turn out ok and I will have had a valuable experience.
I'm just trying to protect someone else from getting screwed over by sharing my experience.
I'm just trying to protect someone else from getting screwed over by sharing my experience.
You didn't get screwed over IMO. You paid half price, and got half the value. You didn't expect any problems at that price?
There are lots of rooms in Austin available for $500 a month. You can get a master bedroom with private bath for that price.
We could have we just ran out of time.
We could have we just ran out of time.
Good story, good life lesson. You tried to game the system and got jacked in the process.
Let me tell you, I hate bugs as much as the next guy and I feel for you. I lived in some dumps, but never with any roaches. I went to college up north in Minnesota and we used to all pitch in and get bug bombs for our house. About once every 6 months always did the trick.
You don't say in your article why you needed to move to Austin in the first place. What was it about where you were living which wasn't conducive to your start-up succeeding?
Let me tell you, I hate bugs as much as the next guy and I feel for you. I lived in some dumps, but never with any roaches. I went to college up north in Minnesota and we used to all pitch in and get bug bombs for our house. About once every 6 months always did the trick.
You don't say in your article why you needed to move to Austin in the first place. What was it about where you were living which wasn't conducive to your start-up succeeding?
All this over some roaches? Seriously? I don't know where you're originally from, but around here (Virginia), insects indoors are a part of life. Having recently moved from cold Seattle, I've never seen so many bugs in my life. I feel like I'm in the jungle.
I'm not sure what the situation in Texas is, but I know many homes in Hawaii specifically will mention that refunds aren't available due to roach occupation in the home. Cockroaches there are quite literally a way of life. Doesn't matter how clean your house is, you will have them. You kind of get used to them while living there, and after a while they don't really bother you. Texas may very well have the same situation, so he may not be lying when he says that they're a way of life. Can't be sure though.
It's most definitely not the way of life here in Texas. I'm currently in Dallas, but grew up in the sticks and have never had to cope with the roach situation he's describing.
I'm in north Dallas and unless you pay for regular extermination visits, roaches are a way of life if you live near open areas. I have a 10 acre ranch behind, two parks within a half mile, and a creek a few hundred feet away, and roaches and mice just love to cool off or warm up in the house, depending on the time of year. Although, this year it is rats and spiders, go figure.
You realize you're not seeing roaches because the rats are eating them, right? (Healthy ecology, healthy home!)
We've been in two other places so far and not seen any roaches. All the people around here I talk to say it is not normal to see roaches everywhere. Maybe once in a while.
We had to rent another place and pay another month's rent. This place doesn't have a real kitchen, so we are buying much more expensive food and burning money faster.
You can simulate a great deal of a kitchen if you buy a hot plate, a rice cooker, and maybe a microwave or toaster oven. You'll have to wash dishes in the bathroom sink. It sucks. But eating out isn't always your only option.
You can simulate a great deal of a kitchen if you buy a hot plate, a rice cooker, and maybe a microwave or toaster oven. You'll have to wash dishes in the bathroom sink. It sucks. But eating out isn't always your only option.
This is a great story! Thanks for sharing!
It's not really surprising that someone who was willing to cheat AirBNB out of their cut of the deal was also willing to cheat you. You've got to watch out when you're dealing with people like that.
Couldn't you have hired exterminators for US$310? Let alone US$700. Also, Hostelling International Austin charges US$28 per bed per night with a shared bathroom in the room, so your (potential) savings on the AirBNB deal are at least good for a week in a youth hostel.
It's not really surprising that someone who was willing to cheat AirBNB out of their cut of the deal was also willing to cheat you. You've got to watch out when you're dealing with people like that.
Couldn't you have hired exterminators for US$310? Let alone US$700. Also, Hostelling International Austin charges US$28 per bed per night with a shared bathroom in the room, so your (potential) savings on the AirBNB deal are at least good for a week in a youth hostel.
I don't really think they guy cheated them. They saw the place and paid for it, the guy clearly isn't running at hilton here. At $500 month in a major city, I wouldn't expect anything less then sub-standard living conditions.
Don't you think he should have mentioned that there are tons of roaches in his place in the listing? Or on the phone?
He should.
Why didn't we hire an exterminator? I never even thougt of it. Thinking now I don't feel it was our responsibility to exterminate this guy's place, and he said he would refund our money which was airbnb's policy.
Of course it wasn't your responsibility. But if you'd done that you could have spent the next few days hacking on your project instead of looking for lodging, and you might even have been able to collect the exterminator fees from him.
This has a little bit of the feel of those Craigslist AirBnB stories that came out about a month ago. Could they be farming HN now?
Welcome to Texas. I had never even seen a cockroach before moving to Houston from Michigan in 2008, but I saw my first one within the first three days of living there (and I was living in a $1,200/mo apt. in a nice area). Maybe to reduce your burn rate you could catch a few and roast them over a fire to save on food costs :)
Drop me a line if you're looking for a place to rent, depending on what you can afford, I know a cheap, crime free, close to grocery store/bus lines apartment complex and have lived in nearly every part of the city, so I can at least guide you on where to look. Nothing else, I can pay for a beer.
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Austinite here. Roaches infestation is absolutely NOT something I would expect to see, no matter how much or little I was paying. a couple of them, whatever, but if youre debating whether you can sleep the night, you're not renting from a person that lives on the same plane of reality.
Hey, look at it another way: they've included food in the $500. http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-04-15/entertainment/270... ;-)
What is your startup? Post a url..I'm interesting in checking out what you're working on.
It's true that roaches are a PITA when it comes to your own living space. But imagine what story you could have told if part of your startup's success came from overcoming this event? Hahaha it sounds ridiculous -- but really, people would have loved it. Also, I feel that the best decision would have been to get a master bedroom for $500.. You and your co-founder would work together anyway. What is so bad with sleeping in the same room together? Might as well since you're spending so many hours with him anyway. Become ramen-profitable then move in somewhere else!
Still, a great article that serves value to the community since many of us will use AirBnB sooner or later.
Still, a great article that serves value to the community since many of us will use AirBnB sooner or later.
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totally a fake article. all it needs is a "he was Nigerian".
This is so funny to my partner and I. I wish it was fake and I had my $360 back!
I could put a link to the dude's airbnb profile. I feel like he screwed me and failed to disclose a material defect, but still I'm not sure.
I could put a link to the dude's airbnb profile. I feel like he screwed me and failed to disclose a material defect, but still I'm not sure.
`He does give us back $160 dollars`
$500 - $160 = $340.
Basic Math might be why you guys are low on money fyi.
$500 - $160 = $340.
Basic Math might be why you guys are low on money fyi.
I paid a dude with a truck $20 to move our stuff there. Douche bag.
$500 - $20 - $160 = $320. even less.
-500 rent
-20 truck cost
+160 rent refund
------
$360
You should've stayed and recorded the whole ordeal. Would've been an incredible story to tell to journalists afterwards
People get scammed all the time; this is newsworthy here only because it indirectly involves a Y Combinator startup. I doubt you'd find another journalist interested in the story.
I feel for the people in the situation, but you have to use common sense particularly when you're using up the bulk of your runway in one payment. Part of business is sizing people up and making a decision about whether to trust them or not -- and when you make bad decisions there are consequences you have to live with.
I feel for the people in the situation, but you have to use common sense particularly when you're using up the bulk of your runway in one payment. Part of business is sizing people up and making a decision about whether to trust them or not -- and when you make bad decisions there are consequences you have to live with.
the hook for their techcrunch article!
Airbnb as a means to a business end and cash outside the system meant to protect you in cases where things can easily go wrong? And no handling of the situation except to run from the roaches? Business is a tough place, especially if you only have two months worth of money ahead of you...
lol, I can't believe you posted this for the hn trolls. LOL, I am giggling so bad they downvoted one guy for being humorous, but the disrespectful trolls go unabated. I love HN more trolls here than 4chan. Only thing missing is nudy pictures to distract the trolls.
Ohh and gl in austin.
Ohh and gl in austin.
I think some people are just jealous our startup is getting traction.
I can't believe people are thinking it's fake. Its funny.
I am going to leave the thread now and get back to work. I was just mad and wanted to share. It made me feel better.
I can't believe people are thinking it's fake. Its funny.
I am going to leave the thread now and get back to work. I was just mad and wanted to share. It made me feel better.
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The place turned out to be infested, and without using airbnb's payment system, we were without recourse.
My co-founder and I moved to Austin Texas with enough money for two months of runway. All we needed to do in those two months was triple our monthly revenue to become ramen profitable. We felt we could do it in one month.
We booked one place on airbnb for 8 days and it was fantastic. We thought in that time we could find a more permanent place to stay. It was far harder to find housing in Austin than we anticipated.
We were getting desperate so we tried airbnb for a place for a month. I had read here at hacker news that people have great success negotiating better prices by contacting the hosts.
We only had a couple more days to find a place and we were getting desperate.
We found a place listed for $810 a month on airbnb. I offered the host $500. He gave me his phone number in a way so as to confuse airbnb's phone number filters.
I called him and he told me he would rent his place for $500 per month, but only if we paid in cash.
I knew it was a bad idea, but it was becoming a choice between a hotel (which I had no money for) and homelessness.
Everyone else we contacted said their places were booked or were 1200 per month or more. We were running out of options.
I paid him $500 in cash the day I arrived at the place and everything looked good in the day time.
When the sun set the first night we were watching Forrest Gump when we saw a gigantic cockroach climbing on the wall!
It was huge! I have never seen one that big in my life! I jumped up, and grabbed my backpack off the floor and another one runs out from under my backpack!
It turns out the place was crawling with roaches. We started seeing them everywhere.
They were large and not afraid of us, they would charge at us.
We realized this was not going to be a place where we could focus on our start up. We couldn't even get a good night sleep because I would dream of bugs crawling on me.
Then we start to notice that the host has put little cockroach traps in every room, we even see some rat traps in the kitchen.
It was after midnight now and we decided to just sleep there that one night and figure something out in the morning.
We slept with the lights on to hopefully scare the roaches away.
The place also had a ton of mosquitos, so many that I would get bit three times walking from the bedroom to the kitchen.
The next day we are seeing roaches in the kitchen crawling over the counters and everything. An apple that we bought and put on the counter had been cored out by what I imagine was an army of roaches that night.
The host isn't returning our calls. He finally comes around the next day.
We tell him that we are leaving and that we can't stay because of the roaches.
He claims that roaches are just a part of life in Texas and are completely normal.
He does give us back $160 dollars in cash though and tells us he will give us the rest later when he gets it. He says he will keep in touch.
We had to rent another place and pay another month's rent. This place doesn't have a real kitchen, so we are buying much more expensive food and burning money faster. Now things are getting tight. We are counting on this guy to come through for us with a refund.
I had been trying to contact him all week and he is ignoring me. Im trying to find a time to meet him to give him back the keys and get some boxes we had left there.
When I see him he tells me he moved back in and took the place off airbnb and doesn't feel he owes us anything because we should have sucked it up and dealt with the roaches.
I say I will feel it was fair if we pay half, and he says life isn't fair.
If we had used airbnb's payment system we could have gotten a full refund when the place was not as advertised within 24 hours. The host also chose a flexible cancellation policy which would have allowed us to get a full refund of any unused days.
So always use the airbnb payment system no matter how much pressure a host puts on you not too!
I would like to thank the airbnb founders for creating such a great service, I will definitely be using it again and recommending it to friends and I will always be telling them to use the airbnb payment system!
This whole thing has put our start up in a precarious place, but we are finding ways around it. We had not wanted to raise any money or borrow any money, but now we are looking into offering friends and family 1 year 12% bonds (personal loans).
I can probably do a couple consulting jobs which will cover things, I had wanted to avoid this because our start up is really picking up, we have about 1/4 million users a month now.
We are also thinking of creating a product related to our startup and raising money for it on kickstarter.
I also might sell my macbook air and Sony FX-7 camera.
It's been a good lesson, and makes me more sympathetic to people in a bad situation. Sometimes its just a couple things going wrong...