How a carnivorous mushroom poisons its prey(scientificamerican.com)
scientificamerican.com
How a carnivorous mushroom poisons its prey
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-a-carnivorous-mushroom-poisons-its-prey/
7 comments
Indeed, it's no wonder fungi has a whole kingdom of life to itself.
A fun fact I like to repeat is that fungi are more closely related to us than to plants -- their evolution diverged from animals 9 million years after plants, some 1.5 billion years ago.
A fun fact I like to repeat is that fungi are more closely related to us than to plants -- their evolution diverged from animals 9 million years after plants, some 1.5 billion years ago.
That's an unreasonable level of precision to infer from the data available now, let alone what was possible in 1998 when that estimate was made. In fact, there's ongoing debate as to whether fungi split first from all other eukaryotes, or opisthokonts (incl. fungi and animals) split from all other eukaryotes (incl. plants)
> 9 million years after plants, some 1.5 billion years ago.
This sentence has an unbelievably high temporal resolution. Can you provide a source of that?
This sentence has an unbelievably high temporal resolution. Can you provide a source of that?
I love the specificity of the 9 million figure, 1.5 billion years ago.
You set me off on some reading to find out more as it seems so interesting, but I can't find a detailed figure, so I like exactness your estimate provides.
Amazing to consider what the common ancestor was like and also what our animal ancestors were like at that time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_fungi
You set me off on some reading to find out more as it seems so interesting, but I can't find a detailed figure, so I like exactness your estimate provides.
Amazing to consider what the common ancestor was like and also what our animal ancestors were like at that time.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_fungi
This paper by Taylor & Berbee [1] describes one attempt at dating the divergence of clades on the evolutionary tree. Figure 2 shows the evolutionary tree inferred from analyzing the similarity of gene sequences between species. Table 1 shows estimates of the age of last common ancestors.
[1]: https://taylorlab.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/taylorlab...
[1]: https://taylorlab.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/taylorlab...
If you're itching to see the cladistic trees of stuff check out my hobby project https://relatedhow.kodare.com
It's not perfect as the data source is rather rough, but it's by far the best source I know of.
It's not perfect as the data source is rather rough, but it's by far the best source I know of.
Quite a lot of detail is available at http://timetree.org/
Highly recommend watching Fantastic Fungi for anyone else interested in this space:
https://fantasticfungi.com/
https://fantasticfungi.com/
Merlin Sheldrake has written an excellent book on this subject, 'Entangled Life: How Fungi Make Our Worlds, Change Our Minds & Shape Our Futures'.
https://www.amazon.com/Entangled-Life-Worlds-Change-Futures/...
Here he cooks and eats some Pleurotus that he grew using a copy of his book:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJfDaIVl-tE
Interesting guy, fascinating subject.
https://www.amazon.com/Entangled-Life-Worlds-Change-Futures/...
Here he cooks and eats some Pleurotus that he grew using a copy of his book:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJfDaIVl-tE
Interesting guy, fascinating subject.
The permaculture movement is, in fits and starts, coming around to the idea that the fungi are the real farmers, and we should just stop trying to prevent them from doing their jobs.
Weird, I just ate the first harvest off my blue oyster mushroom kit. I've never been a huge mushroom fan but they were delicious. Tear them up, fry them until they're crisp in olive oil, and top with garlic sauce(*).
(*) - My poor attempt at recreating Lebanese 'toum' ended up making an insanely delicious garlic sauce that keeps for weeks in a plastic squeeze bottle in the refrigerator. 2 heads of garlic, 1 tsp salt, 1 Tbsp of lemon juice, and enough olive oil to make it squeezable and palatable. Blend in a blender and squeeze on everything you eat. The garlic has to be insanely fresh though. Garlic that is good enough to cook with may be too bitter to use and result in a sauce that sucks. You can even cut the core out of the cloves to tame the bitterness more but I find that is not necessary if you have fresh garlic. Definitely avoid green garlic or any that has started sprouting.
(*) - My poor attempt at recreating Lebanese 'toum' ended up making an insanely delicious garlic sauce that keeps for weeks in a plastic squeeze bottle in the refrigerator. 2 heads of garlic, 1 tsp salt, 1 Tbsp of lemon juice, and enough olive oil to make it squeezable and palatable. Blend in a blender and squeeze on everything you eat. The garlic has to be insanely fresh though. Garlic that is good enough to cook with may be too bitter to use and result in a sauce that sucks. You can even cut the core out of the cloves to tame the bitterness more but I find that is not necessary if you have fresh garlic. Definitely avoid green garlic or any that has started sprouting.
I live out in the woods and had gone morel hunting a few times without success. I had heard so many stories about how good they were and i was getting frustrated b/c it seemed like the perfect setting for them.
One day I was mowing my back yard and was stopped in my tracks by this beautiful morel standing proud right in the middle of my yard like it was placed there by God himself lol.
They are incredibly tasty.
Also highly recommend folks try those kits you’re talking about, they are really fun.
One day I was mowing my back yard and was stopped in my tracks by this beautiful morel standing proud right in the middle of my yard like it was placed there by God himself lol.
They are incredibly tasty.
Also highly recommend folks try those kits you’re talking about, they are really fun.
Yes quite frustrating I had morels pop up on my property once -- which I also noticed while mowing -- and then they never returned to the same spot. So delicious.
I remember as a kid finding a large puffball mushroom in the woods near my house, and brought it home and my dad made a delicious stew with it. Every year I went back to the same area and never found one again.
I remember as a kid finding a large puffball mushroom in the woods near my house, and brought it home and my dad made a delicious stew with it. Every year I went back to the same area and never found one again.
Mushrooms in general is a very fleeting thing. For instance, when I take soil from the garden inside and use for planting it's not uncommon for a tiny mushroom to suddenly sprout, bloom, and wilt in less than a day.
That means you have good mycelium in your soil.
The Mushroom is the actual mycelium network - that is the organism. The "mushroom" that you pick and eat is the fruit/sex-organ of the mycelium solely made to reproduce.
The mycelium reproduces in a number of different stages, and can lay dormant for years. Genetic material is swapped beteen two different organisms. The males are called + and the females are called -
When a + meets a - , they swap genetic material, which then flows through the mycelium until it fruits as a mushroom and that is what we pick and eat.
The Mushroom is the actual mycelium network - that is the organism. The "mushroom" that you pick and eat is the fruit/sex-organ of the mycelium solely made to reproduce.
The mycelium reproduces in a number of different stages, and can lay dormant for years. Genetic material is swapped beteen two different organisms. The males are called + and the females are called -
When a + meets a - , they swap genetic material, which then flows through the mycelium until it fruits as a mushroom and that is what we pick and eat.
I don't trust my ability to discern poisonous from benign varieties so I just leave the all where they're at and let them finish out their days in peace.
Years ago, before I ever developed a taste for mushrooms, I cut down a eucalyptus in my yard. Next year I had a couple of Morels pop up through the gravel near the stump. Never saw them again, and I lived there another decade or so.
Now I need to know what Morel mushrooms taste like...
If you fry them they taste like a combination of delicious and heaven.
Alternately - a fine stand in for fried morel mushrooms are fried pumpkin blossoms, if you would like to see what the flavor is like.
I do not have a substitute for any other use for morels, though. They add their own, amazing flavor to any soup, stew, or other recipe. But definitely try fried pumpkin blossoms - that's what fried morel (which is also the best way to cook them) tastes like. Egg wash, cracker crumb breading, fry in butter. Amazing.
Alternately - a fine stand in for fried morel mushrooms are fried pumpkin blossoms, if you would like to see what the flavor is like.
I do not have a substitute for any other use for morels, though. They add their own, amazing flavor to any soup, stew, or other recipe. But definitely try fried pumpkin blossoms - that's what fried morel (which is also the best way to cook them) tastes like. Egg wash, cracker crumb breading, fry in butter. Amazing.
Interestingly,they are ascomycetes (like yeast)and not basidiomycetes (like most consumed mushrooms ). Their taste to me has more in common with brewer's yeast than "regular mushrooms". Meaty, savory, delicious! Time to get to the woods to hunt them.
I'm so glad this post came up because I completely forget about it every year until summer.
This isn’t helpful unless you can tie the word back to an experience but they have a lot of umami. It’s primarily what differentiates them from standard portabellos/button/cremini mushrooms.
Morels here in Europe are priced insanely high, only a bit below black truffles. For a good reason I must say, if well prepared they taste properly awesome.
Well gosh, button mushrooms if well prepared, they taste properly awesome.
Morels are an entirely different level of awesome, though.
Try some and you'll see.
Try some and you'll see.
One advice on preparation - olive oil is far from best to use for frying. Its great for cold cuisine and OK for very quick heat use, but things like mushrooms that take time definitely no.
Grapeseed, rapeseed, sunflower oils handle prolonged high heat much better.
Grapeseed, rapeseed, sunflower oils handle prolonged high heat much better.
All three of those are unsuitable due to Omega 6 content. Coconut oil and Olive oil are perfectly fine for frying mushrooms slowly in a pan at medium or low heat.
You're worried about hitting the smoke point, which would impart foul taste to the food, but its unlikely to happen with any competent cook.
You're worried about hitting the smoke point, which would impart foul taste to the food, but its unlikely to happen with any competent cook.
Also it's worth noting that the smoke point is different for extra-virgin versus other olive oils. A purified olive oil has a much higher smoke point and can be used for higher-temperature pan-frying. EVOO can be used for pan frying or baking but you have to control the temperature and keep it below about 375. Below that is actually a good temperature for frying mushrooms in my opinion.
And a little bit of smoke with olive oil is fine, the white "smoke" is likely just water boiling out.
That's a very common misconception and a stubborn myth: https://youtu.be/l_aFHrzSBrM
I fry mushrooms (and many other things) in olive oil all the time. It works great, tastes great and as long as you use extra virgin oil, doesn't create any more harmful substances than using rapeseed or sunflower seed oil, probably a lot fewer actually.
You can even deep fry in it, which some celebrated chefs do.
I fry mushrooms (and many other things) in olive oil all the time. It works great, tastes great and as long as you use extra virgin oil, doesn't create any more harmful substances than using rapeseed or sunflower seed oil, probably a lot fewer actually.
You can even deep fry in it, which some celebrated chefs do.
I'm unsure if it even applies in your case, but there is the risk of inadvertently creating botulism when storing garling in oil [1]. Since you are refigerating and adding acid, I'd expect it's probably not an issue.
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1404905/
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1404905/
This is more about the preservation method than the contents. The botulism bacteria clostridium botulinumis is anaerobic, so it spreads most frequently in very low oxygen environments, like canning.
A squeeze bottle is unlikely to provide that environment in the medium term. It will likely have too much oxygen exposure.
Tetanus is another example of anaerobic bacteria that's unlikely to occur unless you encounter a low oxygen environment (like a rusty nail underground). A cut or puncture from something exposed to open air is very unlikely to give you tetanus.
A squeeze bottle is unlikely to provide that environment in the medium term. It will likely have too much oxygen exposure.
Tetanus is another example of anaerobic bacteria that's unlikely to occur unless you encounter a low oxygen environment (like a rusty nail underground). A cut or puncture from something exposed to open air is very unlikely to give you tetanus.
Well, there were reports a few years ago of people dying from homemade garlic oil. No canning needed, the oil is an anaerobic environment. You just put garlic in oil and let it sit in the fridge for a week and you have a lethal poison.
That's true there are other ways to create an anaerobic environment, but the article in the parent comment specifically says the garlic oil was canned.
>the article in the parent comment specifically says the garlic oil was canned
Yes, but you said a squeeze bottle "is unlikely to provide that environment" which is incorrect, as the anaerobic environment is created by the suspension in the oil, which separates the garlic from the air. Just because it wasn't specifically mentioned in the article doesn't mean you didn't put out information was incorrect and dangerous. Garlic in oil must be refrigerated and used within about 3-7 days. https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/stinking_facts_about_garlic#:~....
https://www.freep.com/story/life/food/recipes/2015/07/09/gar...
https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/Can-you-get-botulism-from-gar....
Yes, but you said a squeeze bottle "is unlikely to provide that environment" which is incorrect, as the anaerobic environment is created by the suspension in the oil, which separates the garlic from the air. Just because it wasn't specifically mentioned in the article doesn't mean you didn't put out information was incorrect and dangerous. Garlic in oil must be refrigerated and used within about 3-7 days. https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/stinking_facts_about_garlic#:~....
https://www.freep.com/story/life/food/recipes/2015/07/09/gar...
https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/Can-you-get-botulism-from-gar....
That's specifically why I said "medium term." Your example articles actually do not refute this, so you were either being disingenuous or you didn't read them very well. From the first:
"Unrefrigerated garlic-in-oil mixes can foster the growth of clostridium botulinum bacteria, which produces poisons that do not affect the taste or smell of the oil." Keyword 'unrefrigerated.'
From the second:
"when stored in the oil under ideal conditions, it can support the growth of botulism. Ideal conditions happen when improper home canning practices or improper preparation and storage of fresh herb and garlic-in-oil mixtures take place, according to a report from the University of California, Davis." Keywords 'improper preparation' and 'improper home canning practices.'
From your third article: "Garlic in oil should be made fresh and stored in the refrigerator at 40 °F or lower for no more than 7 days. Package in glass freezer jars or plastic freezer boxes, leaving ½-inch headspace. " Keywords 'no more than 7 days,' and '1/2 inch headspace' (this is for the oxygen).
The odds of getting botulism from keeping garlic in oil in the refrigerator in a non-airtight container for a few days is infinitesimally small.
Improper canning greatly increases the odds. Time greatly increases the odds. Nowhere did I suggest garlic in oil was safe in perpetuity.
"Unrefrigerated garlic-in-oil mixes can foster the growth of clostridium botulinum bacteria, which produces poisons that do not affect the taste or smell of the oil." Keyword 'unrefrigerated.'
From the second:
"when stored in the oil under ideal conditions, it can support the growth of botulism. Ideal conditions happen when improper home canning practices or improper preparation and storage of fresh herb and garlic-in-oil mixtures take place, according to a report from the University of California, Davis." Keywords 'improper preparation' and 'improper home canning practices.'
From your third article: "Garlic in oil should be made fresh and stored in the refrigerator at 40 °F or lower for no more than 7 days. Package in glass freezer jars or plastic freezer boxes, leaving ½-inch headspace. " Keywords 'no more than 7 days,' and '1/2 inch headspace' (this is for the oxygen).
The odds of getting botulism from keeping garlic in oil in the refrigerator in a non-airtight container for a few days is infinitesimally small.
Improper canning greatly increases the odds. Time greatly increases the odds. Nowhere did I suggest garlic in oil was safe in perpetuity.
Not contradicting you, but I feel you focus too much on defending yourself. This is just HN. The important thing is people know to be wary of keeping garlic oil (even in a squeeze bottle) for a week plus. The rest of the facts (or who's technically right) are relevant to very few readers.
Sure, but here are the facts:
1. Very few things should be kept in the refrigerator more than a few days due to risk of contamination. Garlic and oil is recommended no more than seven days
2. Under normal refrigeration, to it's fine to keep garlic and oil in a non airtight container, as supported by the above links
I didn't suggest any longer term storage and the idea that I'm espousing something dangerous is somewhat silly given those facts.
1. Very few things should be kept in the refrigerator more than a few days due to risk of contamination. Garlic and oil is recommended no more than seven days
2. Under normal refrigeration, to it's fine to keep garlic and oil in a non airtight container, as supported by the above links
I didn't suggest any longer term storage and the idea that I'm espousing something dangerous is somewhat silly given those facts.
I actually disagree with #1. I've kept food for months without issue. Like, eggs can be good for about six months past the use-by date. Yogurt for one month past. I bake bread dough and let it rise in the fridge for up to 14 days (lends it a nice alcoholic flavor). C. botulinum is just an especially nefarious threat because it won't make the food smell bad: an invisible poison.
Well given I said "very few things" I can't see the disagreement.
Funny, I just harvested my first bloom of blue oyster mushrooms last night too. I couldn't believe how good they were.
As a cultivator, I wish they'd eat the fungus gnats too!.. And I wonder how much supplementing substrate with nematodes would increase protein content, or how'd I'd test this. The ratio of protein to carbs is about 1:2 in these, getting closer to 1:1 would be awesome for cost effective protein, especially as a non-meat item.
Apparently, nematodes can get a whole meter long. It'd be interesting to drop one of such size into a liquid culture or other colonized medium and see what happens, lol.
Apparently, nematodes can get a whole meter long. It'd be interesting to drop one of such size into a liquid culture or other colonized medium and see what happens, lol.
What kind of cultivation do you do?
I wondered about protein content as well. It would be great to be able to produce a mushroom with respectable protein content. It seems like a stretch, though.
I wondered about protein content as well. It would be great to be able to produce a mushroom with respectable protein content. It seems like a stretch, though.
Primarily indoor cultivation of oysters (most cost effective), but also lion's mane and shiitake in lower quantities along with a lot of screwing around with other species for fun. I began construction of my small scale farm just before the pandemic started looking serious (~December 2019), and my business plan was reliant on getting higher-end restaurants as customers (which have fared poorly during this). So it's been somewhat on pause, but I'm hoping things clear up soon, as I've been gathering some nice equipment for good prices over the last year (in large part due to covid, ironically).
It would be great to be able to do assays for protein content at home or for nearly free at a lab to work towards better genetics. An ~86g or "one cup" serving of raw oysters supposedly has around ~3g, and it's worth noting that a raw cup cooks down to maybe a quarter cup or less, which is probably comparatively substantial for those that don't consume meat. The Vitamin D content is also noteworthy, as apparently they're the only considerable source of this in the produce aisle (which I didn't fully appreciate until binge researching last night).
It would be great to be able to do assays for protein content at home or for nearly free at a lab to work towards better genetics. An ~86g or "one cup" serving of raw oysters supposedly has around ~3g, and it's worth noting that a raw cup cooks down to maybe a quarter cup or less, which is probably comparatively substantial for those that don't consume meat. The Vitamin D content is also noteworthy, as apparently they're the only considerable source of this in the produce aisle (which I didn't fully appreciate until binge researching last night).
The larvae can be killed using Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis powder mixed into water.
> The delicious, inescapable inference is that they’re the only vegan food that can itself eat meat.
OK, this bothers me. Carnivorous plants are well-known. Surely it must be possible to eat at least one of them?
Edit: The article then even says later that other fungi do this too! Oy.
OK, this bothers me. Carnivorous plants are well-known. Surely it must be possible to eat at least one of them?
Edit: The article then even says later that other fungi do this too! Oy.
Carnivorous plants are only edible in the most technical sense. They grow in low nutrient environments and slowly digest prey - meaning you'd be eating something that is mostly small leaves coated in rotting insect goo.
But you can't eat pitcher plants, can you?
The author’s entire writing style bothers me.
Reading this feels like reading a news story from a parallel universe. With fungi it always kinda is.
My guess is that more than half of all readers misread "carnivorous" as "coronavirus" at the first glance.
One of the best things I ever did was go to a seminar on mushroom picking 20 years ago. It opened up my eyes to a whole new world. After reading this I have a sense of amazement at what fungi are capable of, but I’m not surprised at all. The more you dig into it, the more you discover how crazy that world is. Fungus is really cool.