Ask HN: How much can you make from ad networks like Deck, Carbon, Fusion, etc?
I'm working on a web and mobile app that would fit nicely with the type of sites they're typically on, and those networks are the only kind of ads I don't really mind. Does anyone have a ballpark on what you make serving those ads on your site/app?
11 comments
It really depends on what you're doing.
The disadvantage with platforms like decktrade is you have a different set of rules from traditional CPC networks like AdMob. As it is a direct exchange, you're typically dealing with fill rates that can vary wildly and a CPC/eCPM that fluctuates.
That isn't to say you shouldn't use them - I actually prefer to use our own internal ads instead of AdMob and others, with DeckTrade being higher on our own priority list. Use AdWhirl or another mediator to set up your serving list and then your own house ads to make sure you have a max fill rate.
Now, as for ballpark figures I have to say it rather depends. Do you know what your average CTR is on ads you're testing in your apps/sites? If you need, set your estimate at about .08% to 1% CTR; conversely, average earned CPC depends on platform. I'd give it anywhere from $0.03 to $0.05. With that you'de be averaging somewhere from $0.24 to $0.5 eCPM.
As an example of what we get, for our ads on AdMob we have a $0.43 eCPM form our highest impression sites which have a CTR of 0.71%. DeckTrade skews a bit higher at $0.74 and 0.94% respectively. Internal ads we run way outperform all of them however, but our fill rate for those is much less.
Before you begin estimating however, you need to look at your apps/sites and see how related any ads may be. Remember to categorize well and look into how you can maximize the relevance of ads to your own apps. If you have a game, you know people are often playing for a reason - figure out what works and you'll earn more from that.
Ping me @kzorz or something if you want to talk further. We're doing a lot with mobile ads and I'd be happy help anyone out here on YCHN.
<plug class="shameless">We also have an alpha of our internal ad network that we are looking for testers for</plug>
The disadvantage with platforms like decktrade is you have a different set of rules from traditional CPC networks like AdMob. As it is a direct exchange, you're typically dealing with fill rates that can vary wildly and a CPC/eCPM that fluctuates.
That isn't to say you shouldn't use them - I actually prefer to use our own internal ads instead of AdMob and others, with DeckTrade being higher on our own priority list. Use AdWhirl or another mediator to set up your serving list and then your own house ads to make sure you have a max fill rate.
Now, as for ballpark figures I have to say it rather depends. Do you know what your average CTR is on ads you're testing in your apps/sites? If you need, set your estimate at about .08% to 1% CTR; conversely, average earned CPC depends on platform. I'd give it anywhere from $0.03 to $0.05. With that you'de be averaging somewhere from $0.24 to $0.5 eCPM.
As an example of what we get, for our ads on AdMob we have a $0.43 eCPM form our highest impression sites which have a CTR of 0.71%. DeckTrade skews a bit higher at $0.74 and 0.94% respectively. Internal ads we run way outperform all of them however, but our fill rate for those is much less.
Before you begin estimating however, you need to look at your apps/sites and see how related any ads may be. Remember to categorize well and look into how you can maximize the relevance of ads to your own apps. If you have a game, you know people are often playing for a reason - figure out what works and you'll earn more from that.
Ping me @kzorz or something if you want to talk further. We're doing a lot with mobile ads and I'd be happy help anyone out here on YCHN.
<plug class="shameless">We also have an alpha of our internal ad network that we are looking for testers for</plug>
Thanks for the info. I think you may be thinking of the wrong Deck though. I was referring to http://decknetwork.net/, which is a network that only shows only a single ad per site with a limited number of advertisers and publishers. For example, on Daring Fireball (http://daringfireball.net/). Fusion (http://fusionads.net/) does the same thing. I'm not sure how much that changes the numbers, but I believe it's a bit different from the typical ad network.
Ahh, ok.
Hmm, interesting model from those guys. Problem with that is, as il said, ads that make money are typically not ads that you like.
Now, to differentiate from the mobile side, there are reams of networks you can use. The whole 1-ad thing is not actually that effective imho, as you have 1 single source of revenue. You have no points of critical comparison to determine what is working.
The key is response vs. relevance. If you can have several ads on page that promote products and services that are relevant, then you have the right mix. No one says you need to stick with one ad or that you need to cram every single banner possible in your page. Go with a good balance, and start as far on the relevance side as possible. Inch your way over to response and watch your stats: if you see your pageviews start to inch down because you added that other banner spot or text link group, take it out. Test, test, test and retest - that is the key.
One good avenue to providing relevant ads is simply by making an account on Commission Junction and searching for relevant products. If you have a site about IT, apply to every IT software affiliate program and software sales company out there. Set up an OpenX ad server and start to optimize. Look for who gets the response and conversions from users.
The best part about affiliate ads on your site that you control is it keeps you honest. Unrelated irrelevant junk will either alienate people or not convert, so you are incentivized to stick with what adds value.
Most important of all of this - and it is easy to forget - is this: as a site/app owner, YOU control the impressions. That control is important, so don't give it away to just one single advertiser network. Make them work for your business, just like you do for your own customers.
Hmm, interesting model from those guys. Problem with that is, as il said, ads that make money are typically not ads that you like.
Now, to differentiate from the mobile side, there are reams of networks you can use. The whole 1-ad thing is not actually that effective imho, as you have 1 single source of revenue. You have no points of critical comparison to determine what is working.
The key is response vs. relevance. If you can have several ads on page that promote products and services that are relevant, then you have the right mix. No one says you need to stick with one ad or that you need to cram every single banner possible in your page. Go with a good balance, and start as far on the relevance side as possible. Inch your way over to response and watch your stats: if you see your pageviews start to inch down because you added that other banner spot or text link group, take it out. Test, test, test and retest - that is the key.
One good avenue to providing relevant ads is simply by making an account on Commission Junction and searching for relevant products. If you have a site about IT, apply to every IT software affiliate program and software sales company out there. Set up an OpenX ad server and start to optimize. Look for who gets the response and conversions from users.
The best part about affiliate ads on your site that you control is it keeps you honest. Unrelated irrelevant junk will either alienate people or not convert, so you are incentivized to stick with what adds value.
Most important of all of this - and it is easy to forget - is this: as a site/app owner, YOU control the impressions. That control is important, so don't give it away to just one single advertiser network. Make them work for your business, just like you do for your own customers.
For the mobile, I would most likely want to use the same network for consistency. And the main reason I want to use one of these networks is because the ads are high quality and relevant. I'm less worried about maximizing revenue, and more concerned with the ads being helpful and unobtrusive.
Thanks again for the tips. I haven't done much with advertising, so it's definitely helpful to hear.
Thanks again for the tips. I haven't done much with advertising, so it's definitely helpful to hear.
Glad I can help. I understand your desire with helpful/unobtrusive ads, but I would just caution you to not leave money on the table. Do some testing to find that balance - let the users help you decide :)
Best of luck!
Best of luck!
Here's the thing: The kinds of ads you don't mind are the same kinds of ads that perform the worst for advertisers. The CPMs will probably reflect this.
I don't know how they perform, but I assume their successful because companies keep advertising there. I don't mind these particular ads because they're high quality, not obnoxious, and relevant to me. I never click through ads on most sites, but I actually do click through these because I'm interested in the product. It's ideal advertising to me.
You can approximate using this page: http://decknetwork.net/
28 advertisers * $8300 = $232,400. That figure divided by 100,873,827 impressions is $.002 / impression or $2.30 per thousand impressions. Assume The Deck pays out 70% and you're looking at $1.60 CPM.
28 advertisers * $8300 = $232,400. That figure divided by 100,873,827 impressions is $.002 / impression or $2.30 per thousand impressions. Assume The Deck pays out 70% and you're looking at $1.60 CPM.
That's probably a good rough estimate. I did some of my own back of the envelope calculations along those lines and figured out a site like Daring Fireball is probably making around $5,700/month from the Deck, which is less than I would have thought. I'd love to get some first-hand info though.
One other comment: mobile affiliate networks are still in their infancy and many are just shady fly-by-night companies. In general, do not trust them.
how many visitors users do you have/expect to have