Ask HN: How Do You Negotiate?
9 comments
There are a few components to being a good "negotiator".
1. Put yourself in situations where you're comfortable walking away. If you're frequently finding yourself in back-and-forths where you're afraid of the other side saying no, you may be putting too much on the line. Start off with lower risk negotiations, and slowly ratchet them so that you have something to fall back on.
2. A lot of people think that negotiation is a "fight" to arrive to get what you want, but the reality is more complicated. It's really a joint agreement where both sides get most of what they want. Most negotiations rarely end with all parties feeling getting everything they desire. To achieve this, communicate your needs clearly, and likewise, try to understand the other side's needs. Only then can you make demands that make sense.
3. This goes along with #1. It's very important to give the sense that you have control over the situation. In a salary negotiation, this could be having multiple offers, or very clearly communicating that you don't need the job. In a PR, it might be replying to pushback on a change by explaining in detail why it's a positive for the codebase, and throw out a few architectural details to support your statements. If you're trying to get an upgrade during your hotel stay, usually just asking is enough—most hotels are fully booked anyways, so as long as you appear calm and deliberate about it, you'll probably get something extra.
4. I hesitated in adding this as a specific bullet point, since it might be "controversial"; be nice! You're dealing with humans, not machines. Don't be rude while negotiating. It rarely works out as a strategy to get the other side to concede. Nice people are fun to work and deal with.
1. Put yourself in situations where you're comfortable walking away. If you're frequently finding yourself in back-and-forths where you're afraid of the other side saying no, you may be putting too much on the line. Start off with lower risk negotiations, and slowly ratchet them so that you have something to fall back on.
2. A lot of people think that negotiation is a "fight" to arrive to get what you want, but the reality is more complicated. It's really a joint agreement where both sides get most of what they want. Most negotiations rarely end with all parties feeling getting everything they desire. To achieve this, communicate your needs clearly, and likewise, try to understand the other side's needs. Only then can you make demands that make sense.
3. This goes along with #1. It's very important to give the sense that you have control over the situation. In a salary negotiation, this could be having multiple offers, or very clearly communicating that you don't need the job. In a PR, it might be replying to pushback on a change by explaining in detail why it's a positive for the codebase, and throw out a few architectural details to support your statements. If you're trying to get an upgrade during your hotel stay, usually just asking is enough—most hotels are fully booked anyways, so as long as you appear calm and deliberate about it, you'll probably get something extra.
4. I hesitated in adding this as a specific bullet point, since it might be "controversial"; be nice! You're dealing with humans, not machines. Don't be rude while negotiating. It rarely works out as a strategy to get the other side to concede. Nice people are fun to work and deal with.
I've had an unprecedented number of salary negotiations over the past two months.
I had multiple offers to choose from and they were all pretty good on the surface. Having "I can walk away if I need to" in the back of my mind made the entire experience more relaxing (on my end).
I stated with "I'm looking at X, Y, and Z companies" in the first interaction with each of the three interviews.
Company X gave me an offer of $AMOUNT in an email (before a formal discussion about salary). $AMOUNT was a really nice bump from my current salary already.
When it came time to talk "how much do you expect" for Y company I told them I had X offer for $AMOUNT and would be interested to know what they could offer.
Y company came back with $AMOUNT + 10%.
I used was up front with company Z about the previous two offers. They offered me $AMOUNT + 17%. Note: company Z was slightly worse compared to X and Y.
I had a meeting with company X and told them about the above. They agreed to $AMOUNT + 17%.
I took company X in the end.
I had multiple offers to choose from and they were all pretty good on the surface. Having "I can walk away if I need to" in the back of my mind made the entire experience more relaxing (on my end).
I stated with "I'm looking at X, Y, and Z companies" in the first interaction with each of the three interviews.
Company X gave me an offer of $AMOUNT in an email (before a formal discussion about salary). $AMOUNT was a really nice bump from my current salary already.
When it came time to talk "how much do you expect" for Y company I told them I had X offer for $AMOUNT and would be interested to know what they could offer.
Y company came back with $AMOUNT + 10%.
I used was up front with company Z about the previous two offers. They offered me $AMOUNT + 17%. Note: company Z was slightly worse compared to X and Y.
I had a meeting with company X and told them about the above. They agreed to $AMOUNT + 17%.
I took company X in the end.
If company X moved 17% how much % do you think you potentially left on the table?
Hard to say. Probably some amount.
I was already making a stupid amount for the workload at my original employer. I'm happy with the end result for the moment.
I had another offer that I didn't mention here for 30% more after I accepted the +17% offer. It required a being on call Tuesday to Sunday... Money isn't the only factor.
I was already making a stupid amount for the workload at my original employer. I'm happy with the end result for the moment.
I had another offer that I didn't mention here for 30% more after I accepted the +17% offer. It required a being on call Tuesday to Sunday... Money isn't the only factor.
If you've already gotten bumps from their original offer, odds are that you are not leaving much on the table at all.
I'm also reading Voss's book and watched most of his Masterclass. You probably just need more time on task, which is the problem with learning a lot of things. Most of us negotiate job offers, salary, hotel upgrades, etc infrequently. One thing that works is not giving a fuck and be willing to walk away. For example, buying a car - in that specific scenario you have a ton of leverage.
Could be a good product idea - negotiation practice sessions as a service...
Could be a good product idea - negotiation practice sessions as a service...
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Someone mentioned practice, and yes that is key. When I decided I was going to learn how to sell, I quit my job and went work in new car dealerships; it took me a couple of years and hundreds of negotiations before I became a force to be reckoned with.
Read sales books like those written by Zig Ziglar and Jay Abraham. Voss is awesome (though the title is a misnomer as he does advocate for splitting the difference in a part of that book). Some of his best advice is that of mirroring--it works like magic.
Never forget that if you are not prepared to walk away, you are not negotiating you are capitulating. Love or hate Trump he understands this fact about negotiating and he owns it.
Read sales books like those written by Zig Ziglar and Jay Abraham. Voss is awesome (though the title is a misnomer as he does advocate for splitting the difference in a part of that book). Some of his best advice is that of mirroring--it works like magic.
Never forget that if you are not prepared to walk away, you are not negotiating you are capitulating. Love or hate Trump he understands this fact about negotiating and he owns it.
Just ask. It's harder for some than you might think. Don't over think it. Ask for what you want, be direct, be sincere, and line up alternatives if you need to walk away.
Read "Never Split The Difference" by Chris Voss. It was the best book i read in 2019 and it will change your mind on how you look at negotiating.
Regarding salaries, pick a number you’re a tony bit ashamed to say out loud and add 5-10%. Use that as a starting point and let them talk you down. You’ll probably want to try this out a few times on jobs you’re meh about to get comfortable saying it.
Apart from the book by Voss you can also read these two they are good books but in the end it all comes to presence of mind and practice.
To Sell Is Human by Daniel Pink Getting To Yes by Roger Fisher & William Ury.
To Sell Is Human by Daniel Pink Getting To Yes by Roger Fisher & William Ury.
I liked, and will second, Getting To Yes
I’ve tried reading some books. Most recent one was “never split the difference” by Chris Voss. But it’s still a huge challenge.
What’s working for you? And how can I and others learn to better negotiate?