Why women don't FLOSS(blog.milkingthegnu.org)
blog.milkingthegnu.org
Why women don't FLOSS
http://blog.milkingthegnu.org/2008/06/why-women-dont-floss.html
7 comments
We shall not rest until every subgroup of the population has perfectly proportional representation in every possible activity!
In my experience women are less involved in FLOSS because they gravitate more heavily towards institutional jobs where IT staff learn whatever systems the company uses. FLOSS expertise is concentrated in people who use software independently before they use it organizationally.
This is not intended as a sexist post or a comment on differences in capabilities between genders. I've seen capable women who find it harder to get employment than their male peers, and think there are sexist pressures in the workforce that make it a lot harder for women to work as independent consultants. So I know a lot less who worry about Hadoop.
This is not intended as a sexist post or a comment on differences in capabilities between genders. I've seen capable women who find it harder to get employment than their male peers, and think there are sexist pressures in the workforce that make it a lot harder for women to work as independent consultants. So I know a lot less who worry about Hadoop.
Hmm, I'm not buying all their arguments. From the article: "However, the extent of the problem is not funny...Almost half of the women have been asked out. "
On college campuses, probably 80-90% of women have been asked out. Does that prevent women from going to college?
On college campuses, probably 80-90% of women have been asked out. Does that prevent women from going to college?
Yes but there are major differences:
- In college you're not interacting only through the Internet
- Even though you might be popular, you're not going to have that many guys asking you out.
- But the main thing is at work, or when practicing your hobby, you're not expecting to be bugged very often by people probing for a relationship...
"But the main thing is at work, or when practicing your hobby, you're not expecting to be bugged very often by people probing for a relationship..."
Thats silly, for many folks (for good or for ill), it is through work or their hobbies that they meet new people.
Thats silly, for many folks (for good or for ill), it is through work or their hobbies that they meet new people.
Not quite. You're socializing (including taking on new hobbies) to meet new people, yes. But you're not passioned by your hobby (say History or computers) because you want to socialize ... And if you're into say long distance running that's not to have all the guys -who otherwise might have run faster- start slowing down just to look at your butt ...
At both places I worked that had women (admittedly, both colleges), women were asked out. I'm told it's not uncommon at regular jobs either. What fraction of nurses (an 80-90% women profession) are asked out, do you think?
As far as I know, women are asked out at many hobby activities as well. I know people who have gotten dates at critical mass, rowing, the gym and some sort of "Free Palestine" club. I'm told that even church is not an unreasonable place.
This "men asking out women" problem seems quite pervasive.
As far as I know, women are asked out at many hobby activities as well. I know people who have gotten dates at critical mass, rowing, the gym and some sort of "Free Palestine" club. I'm told that even church is not an unreasonable place.
This "men asking out women" problem seems quite pervasive.
I wish I had the problem of those women (being asked out too often).
It's easy to say that, but I once went to a gay bar with some girl friends and gay friends of mine. At first the attention was somewhat flattering, but it didn't take long before the people leering at me and trying to get me to dance with them when I was uninterested really started to bother me. At that moment, I was enlightened.
I know what you mean, but I still think it is the better problem to have: too many wanting you vs too few.
Look at it on the bright side: since you're forced to ask, at least you get to choose ... :)
Choose your rejection wisely? ;-)
I take issues with some parts of the article:
"She presents the following reasons: CS jobs are clean jobs and they don't require much physical force. It's a typical tertiary activity that can even be conducted while staying home!
What's interesting is that the arguments used are well, sexist"
Huh? Can somebody explain what is sexist about those arguments? Because it implies that women might have less physical strength than men on average? Is there a debate about that?
"women, who normally still assume a disproportionate amount of domestic responsibilities."
Is that true? If so, why, and maybe that would be a more suitable starting place for striving for equality?
"She presents the following reasons: CS jobs are clean jobs and they don't require much physical force. It's a typical tertiary activity that can even be conducted while staying home!
What's interesting is that the arguments used are well, sexist"
Huh? Can somebody explain what is sexist about those arguments? Because it implies that women might have less physical strength than men on average? Is there a debate about that?
"women, who normally still assume a disproportionate amount of domestic responsibilities."
Is that true? If so, why, and maybe that would be a more suitable starting place for striving for equality?
She said that in the context of "There is nothing masculine/male about CS ..." and since gender was the subject of the dscussion you don't need a huge leap of faith to accept the comment as sexist.
As to the broom work, yes it's suitable t there, although not the subject of the post...
As to the broom work, yes it's suitable t there, although not the subject of the post...
So why is it sexist to say "there is nothing masculine about CS"? If you say the opposite, surely it would be sexist, because it would imply that women are not made for CS. But saying "CS is not masculine" seems not sexist to me. Except that the whole question is rather uninteresting ("masculine" or not - who cares?).
It's ironic that asking a woman out is not OK, but huge flamewars between men in the F/OSS community are OK.
Perhaps this will sound sexist, but in my experience, women are more critical than men, especially towards other women. And even if a particular woman does not exhibit this quality, she still expects it from others, both men and women. I'm not saying this is an inborn trait (although some aspects of it could be), but I have definitely observed it when I'm out with girl friends of mine.
Could it not be, then, that when considering the prospect of writing software and releasing it for scrutiny, an expectation of excessive criticism prevents many women from doing so?
Could it not be, then, that when considering the prospect of writing software and releasing it for scrutiny, an expectation of excessive criticism prevents many women from doing so?
Men and women are different; they think and act differently. I think we shouldn't make such a big deal about it. Just let the natural forces of it play out. Sexism will only prevent a woman from achieving her dreams if she lets it. Sometimes I think that people complain politically out of incompetence in the real world to just deal with it and succeed.