Asking my co-workers out to lunch(ryannjohnson.com)
ryannjohnson.com
Asking my co-workers out to lunch
https://ryannjohnson.com/writing/asking-my-co-workers-out-to-lunch/
11 comments
It's quite common for developers at least to not enjoy the interactions of a one-on-one time with a non direct relation (ie. someone you don't know well/don't have much in common subjects). So while this could be a good idea sometimes, don't "force" this on people who might not decline but also might not enjoy.
Thank you. Common sense is rare these days.
Did bootcamps ruin everything? All of a sudden there is an influx of people with pushy sales-person/telemarketer type of personality in dev positions who's live goal seems to be to forcefully extrovert introverted colleagues.
Did bootcamps ruin everything? All of a sudden there is an influx of people with pushy sales-person/telemarketer type of personality in dev positions who's live goal seems to be to forcefully extrovert introverted colleagues.
I agree, and I would like to add that going out in small groups may work better for some people, because it takes off the pressure of having to "perform" or to make a "good impression" when people are not feeling up for it or when their minds are otherwise too occupied.
Overall, I like the idea of making an effort to form social connections and to learn more about your colleagues and their work. Especially in an environment where most people are not completely consumed with deep work (which to be honest applies to most work places including mine right now) this could be one of the little things that keeps a company together as far as motivation and mood go.
Overall, I like the idea of making an effort to form social connections and to learn more about your colleagues and their work. Especially in an environment where most people are not completely consumed with deep work (which to be honest applies to most work places including mine right now) this could be one of the little things that keeps a company together as far as motivation and mood go.
As a software developer, it strikes me as odd that this is something that doesn't somehow happen naturally.
Where I work, a huge portion of employees eats out instead of bringing their own lunch, so around 12:00 we form into groups and go eat together. Due to various constraints a lot of the time these groups happen to be the size of 2.
I love it because it's an opportunity to get to know your co-workers on a more personal level.
Where I work, a huge portion of employees eats out instead of bringing their own lunch, so around 12:00 we form into groups and go eat together. Due to various constraints a lot of the time these groups happen to be the size of 2.
I love it because it's an opportunity to get to know your co-workers on a more personal level.
It strikes me as odd that people like yourself don't really get developers. The only reason I'm out of the office is to shake off my tunnel vision and to try to solve one of the problems I'm working on by changing the environment. I'm out of the office for the refresher and not to blabber about your noisy children or your boring life. "Casual" lunches are super annoying and not productive. Yuck.
Thanks god with seniority comes the power to turn people like yourself down without any consequences.
Thanks god with seniority comes the power to turn people like yourself down without any consequences.
In my experience most developers, while often a bit introverted or nerdy, are not particularly different from normal people, who often enjoy social interaction and making friends. I can’t agree with your assertion that real developers are as antisocial as you seem to be.
I believe that going to lunch with co-workers should be an opt-in thing, on that we agree. If a company required me to go to lunch with co-workers, then that is technically not a lunch break. That should be considered a "working lunch", and should count towards your hours logged for the week.
With that said, I think you are missing out on a key point here, which is that a HUGE part of being an effective programmer within an organization is your ability to communicate and collaborate effectively with other people.
When you step out of your comfort zone and spend time building casual relationships with your co-workers, you will discover that your influence within the organization grows, and you will also find that people tend to be more empathetic towards you if (and when) you inevitably screw something up. If someone regards you as a "friend", they are much more likely to extend you some grace when your bugs cause them inconvenience. You will also find that they are more eager to pause what they are working on and stop and help you with things when you need it, or to answer your questions. In a situation where you aren't their friend and they don't stop and help you, you could easily be looking at days/weeks worth of delays and back and forth while they are being unhelpful.
Sure, you might be a 10x developer within your little silo, but the moment you need something outside of the silo, you will find those interpersonal relationships can often make a huge difference.
With that said, I think you are missing out on a key point here, which is that a HUGE part of being an effective programmer within an organization is your ability to communicate and collaborate effectively with other people.
When you step out of your comfort zone and spend time building casual relationships with your co-workers, you will discover that your influence within the organization grows, and you will also find that people tend to be more empathetic towards you if (and when) you inevitably screw something up. If someone regards you as a "friend", they are much more likely to extend you some grace when your bugs cause them inconvenience. You will also find that they are more eager to pause what they are working on and stop and help you with things when you need it, or to answer your questions. In a situation where you aren't their friend and they don't stop and help you, you could easily be looking at days/weeks worth of delays and back and forth while they are being unhelpful.
Sure, you might be a 10x developer within your little silo, but the moment you need something outside of the silo, you will find those interpersonal relationships can often make a huge difference.
Please stop throwing around meaningless generalizations and banalities about "silos" and "comfort zones".
> Your coworkers with stop helping you because you "didn't go to lunch with them, :sad_face:"!
haha that's so silly, so naive, so sentimental! We are not children. And your office is not a playground. We are professional adults in a professional setting.
> If someone regards you as a "friend", they are much more likely to extend you some grace
Your co-workers are not your friends. Learn the difference, you are not Michael Scott (I hope).
> Your coworkers with stop helping you because you "didn't go to lunch with them, :sad_face:"!
haha that's so silly, so naive, so sentimental! We are not children. And your office is not a playground. We are professional adults in a professional setting.
> If someone regards you as a "friend", they are much more likely to extend you some grace
Your co-workers are not your friends. Learn the difference, you are not Michael Scott (I hope).
I prefer to work with professionals who also happen to be my friends (or at least friendly acquaintances who know each other's names).
"Professionalism" doesn't have to be an impersonal facade that people hide behind. Work is all about meeting commitments and earning money, sure, but at the end of the day, we are all people, and people have feelings and frustrations. They have things they love and hate. They like being acknowledged and appreciated. This doesn't mean they are children and that the office is a playground free-for-all, though. It just means that your offices are going to be full of people.
People who, for better or worse, are often just trying to make ends meet, and are going through the motions at a job they barely stand.
I think you would be surprised at what a difference a little empathy, kindness, and friendliness in the workplace can do for a company's success, and also for your own career success (if you try it out).
As a side note, one of the things that really opened my eyes to a lot of this was from reading Dale Carnegie's famous book, "How to Win Friends and Influence People".
I highly recommend reading it, if you ever get the chance. I might have an extra copy that I would be willing to lend you, if you are curious?
"Professionalism" doesn't have to be an impersonal facade that people hide behind. Work is all about meeting commitments and earning money, sure, but at the end of the day, we are all people, and people have feelings and frustrations. They have things they love and hate. They like being acknowledged and appreciated. This doesn't mean they are children and that the office is a playground free-for-all, though. It just means that your offices are going to be full of people.
People who, for better or worse, are often just trying to make ends meet, and are going through the motions at a job they barely stand.
I think you would be surprised at what a difference a little empathy, kindness, and friendliness in the workplace can do for a company's success, and also for your own career success (if you try it out).
As a side note, one of the things that really opened my eyes to a lot of this was from reading Dale Carnegie's famous book, "How to Win Friends and Influence People".
I highly recommend reading it, if you ever get the chance. I might have an extra copy that I would be willing to lend you, if you are curious?
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Is it really more common for software developers, though?
I have a similar experience with sporting activities with people in the office. Every week at work we get together and play floorball ("innebandy" in Swedish). It's a mix of people from all departments, and invariably I end up talking to all of them (especially on the way back to the office). Apart from having fun playing sports, I now know various people in different departments. This is good in many ways, not least when you need something done and need to find somebody to talk to.
Of course this only works with people that join the particular activity. Nevertheless, I've found this "random connections" very useful.
This could be an interesting alternative. Any ideas for a sport that anyone could enjoy easily? I wouldn't expect most people having fun with a tennis match for example.
I’ve known a few friends join community kickball groups in new cities they move to. The mix of people I’ve seen in photos and from their descriptions is definitely mostly younger ages, but spans most demographics within the younger age range.
Bowling? I never bowled much, but my son's friends (a group now thirty or just over) seemed to enjoy bowling together now and then.
And volleyball and softball can be played at a variety of levels of skill.
And volleyball and softball can be played at a variety of levels of skill.
Must be very expensive eating out every single lunch? Or maybe you can expense it as a meeting at the author’s company?
This is common in Israel where all but the largest companies (FAANG) give you lunch money instead of free food, so it's a matter of choosing between eating out or ordering in - the cost is the same.
Facebook also lets engineers (and only engineers, oddly) eat out on Wednesdays.
Facebook also lets engineers (and only engineers, oddly) eat out on Wednesdays.
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"Lets" ??
Since when is a company allowed to dictate where employees can eat?
Since when is a company allowed to dictate where employees can eat?
Taking a wild guess here - which you could have done - they probably mean they Facebook lets you expense it, rather than just lets you do it.
Depends on where you are. At least here in Berlin there's always a special lunch pricing and it's certainly cheaper than cooking yourself most of the time. In our office we always go out for lunch every day. Mostly the whole team in one group.
Depends where you live. You have lot of places in the world where eating out is as cheap or even cheaper than cooking for yourself.
In France meals are subsidized and it costs me between 2.40 and 5-6 € per meal.
If you bring your own lunch from home you can sit in a park or similar.
I mean you could go get a $8 sandwich at your local deli.
Coffee is also an option (often free in some offices)
I think the idea of spending one-on-one time at random is wonderful. It helps you break unconscious patterns and get to know people you otherwise might miss out on learning more about.
We developed a cross platform solution called LEAD that connects people for lunch, coffee and speed mentoring too.(not just via random matching.)
LEAD just graduated from Alchemist Accelerator recently.
The bot can be download from https://slack.com/apps/ALBRU32RK-leadbot
Also, if your company doesn't use Slack, we have an email version for the matching.
I did this too in the past. The insights you can get are super valuable. But don't set a specific agenda. Let it flow, with a "rough" intro of what you want to achieve from these lunches.
Google has an internal tool that pairs people for lunch for the same reason. It's fun to see what makes people excited on other teams or to run problems your team is facing by them.
Many companies know it is important to build tools like that. Google has been onto those things since 2006. :)
I tentatively added the slack bot 'Donut' mentioned in my company because I was starting to see a divide between the two colocated offices. I was pleasantly surprised to see over 60% participation, and people personally thanked me for setting it up. Yet another reminder to me how important communication is!
I cherish one on one encounters, especially with people you're accustomed with, but never really spent time getting to know.
Although my favorites are done travelling, which works with a walk long enough too. Inevitably you're breaking the silence.
Although my favorites are done travelling, which works with a walk long enough too. Inevitably you're breaking the silence.
On a side note, the whole website looks pretty interesting to me.
Don't do it one-on-one: you are exposing yourself to false harassment allegations. A single one can ruin your career.
Not really. If you're particularly panicky and feel like you won't know where to draw the line (I feel like if you're asking someone for lunch because you don't really know them, the line is really obvious), then just avoid complimenting looks or clothing and touching. Really no way to go wrong if you avoid those.
Also, if the person does not respond positively (and I don't mean they respond negatively, but if they say no for whatever reason), don't ask again. They now know you want to and will let you know when they're free, and once they do, even if you're the one whose busy, you'll know you're not bothering them.
At least in Israel, lunch is regarded as inherently acceptable in a professional setting, since it's in the middle of the workday, even if you're eating out. Generally I'll only ask people to meet on their personal time if I feel like we know each other well enough and they like me back, otherwise it's an inconvenience -- asking for somebody's personal time is a big ask. With the opposite sex, I find it's really hard for a simple invite for dinner or beer to be misconstrued as an advance. It also helps that the vast majority of female engineers I know are in a relationship, so that makes my intent blatantly obvious.
Also, if the person does not respond positively (and I don't mean they respond negatively, but if they say no for whatever reason), don't ask again. They now know you want to and will let you know when they're free, and once they do, even if you're the one whose busy, you'll know you're not bothering them.
At least in Israel, lunch is regarded as inherently acceptable in a professional setting, since it's in the middle of the workday, even if you're eating out. Generally I'll only ask people to meet on their personal time if I feel like we know each other well enough and they like me back, otherwise it's an inconvenience -- asking for somebody's personal time is a big ask. With the opposite sex, I find it's really hard for a simple invite for dinner or beer to be misconstrued as an advance. It also helps that the vast majority of female engineers I know are in a relationship, so that makes my intent blatantly obvious.
OP is talking about false allegation, you're explaining how to avoid real allegation.
Only in the US.
You can have false allegations without having to go one-on-one with people just as well. That's the thing with the false claims.