Ask HN: How did you meet your cofounder?
14 comments
I met my cofounder in the university. We were taking an algorithms analysis class together, and were later reintroduced by a common friend. We didn't know each other very well and just jumped into it. After some initial friction, it worked out really well (you'd have to ask him if he agrees), but I think it's an exception rather than the rule. We were incredibly lucky it worked out the way it did. If I were to do it again and had to find a cofounder, I wouldn't leave it up to chance.
The biggest mistake I see is people jumping into it with friends who aren't qualified to take a company off the ground at all. Think about it - you wouldn't just hire someone because they're a nice guy without doing an interview, and the cost of a bad hire is much lower than the cost of a bad cofounder (which more often than not is fatal). So don't leave it up to chance. Make a list of qualities you want to see in your potential cofounder. Then hit up everyone you know. Call everyone you respect and ask them for a list of five people they respect. Go to university professors and ask for top five students they know. Go to events and introduce yourself to people. Do founder dating. Compile a list of twenty people you're impressed with (and hopefully are a little intimidated by) who want to start a company.
Then interview each one of them. Rigorously. Make sure they're qualified. Let them interview you (in fact, don't start a company with them if they don't rigorously interview you). Talk completely openly about your goals and theirs. Take it slow. Act as a professional - design an interview process and stick to it with all candidates. It can take a couple of months to interview and close a senior executive hire, it should take about as long to interview and close a cofounder. Do it in steps over a period of a few weeks. Define criteria and goals for each step and stick to them.
Do not wing it, or you will have wasted the next two years of your life. I'd say that if the whole process takes you less than four-six months of nearly full-time work, you're probably being way too cavalier about it (unless you already know someone you've worked with before who has all the qualities you're looking for).
The biggest mistake I see is people jumping into it with friends who aren't qualified to take a company off the ground at all. Think about it - you wouldn't just hire someone because they're a nice guy without doing an interview, and the cost of a bad hire is much lower than the cost of a bad cofounder (which more often than not is fatal). So don't leave it up to chance. Make a list of qualities you want to see in your potential cofounder. Then hit up everyone you know. Call everyone you respect and ask them for a list of five people they respect. Go to university professors and ask for top five students they know. Go to events and introduce yourself to people. Do founder dating. Compile a list of twenty people you're impressed with (and hopefully are a little intimidated by) who want to start a company.
Then interview each one of them. Rigorously. Make sure they're qualified. Let them interview you (in fact, don't start a company with them if they don't rigorously interview you). Talk completely openly about your goals and theirs. Take it slow. Act as a professional - design an interview process and stick to it with all candidates. It can take a couple of months to interview and close a senior executive hire, it should take about as long to interview and close a cofounder. Do it in steps over a period of a few weeks. Define criteria and goals for each step and stick to them.
Do not wing it, or you will have wasted the next two years of your life. I'd say that if the whole process takes you less than four-six months of nearly full-time work, you're probably being way too cavalier about it (unless you already know someone you've worked with before who has all the qualities you're looking for).
I don't know where one would get the assumption that you'll lose the friend if the business fails. If that is the case, you chose the wrong friend. ;)
A failed startup (and a successful one, too) will obviously stress the friendship. But if you go in with a very close friend, or you become close very in the early days of constant work, your friendship will hopefully be strong enough that you'll tough it out and still be great friends regardless of the outcome.
If you have a friend that you're that close with who's a good candidate for being a cofounder, that close relationship will be a huge asset. PG said somewhere that he prefers to invest in close friends because they'll stick it out even during "trough of sorrow" times because the friendship keeps them in it. It'll also make things more fun if you're putting in those long hours with someone that you enjoy spending time with.
But you shouldn't choose a close friend that you wouldn't choose as a cofounder if you had just met them. It's very important that they be skilled and motivated enough that they're a real asset to the startup.
... My first startup hasn't even written a line of code yet (We're doing Node Knockout (http://nodeknockout.com/) this weekend and building the MVP as our entry.), so take that all with a grain of salt. But my cofounders are my close friend and his close friend, and I'm very happy about that.
A failed startup (and a successful one, too) will obviously stress the friendship. But if you go in with a very close friend, or you become close very in the early days of constant work, your friendship will hopefully be strong enough that you'll tough it out and still be great friends regardless of the outcome.
If you have a friend that you're that close with who's a good candidate for being a cofounder, that close relationship will be a huge asset. PG said somewhere that he prefers to invest in close friends because they'll stick it out even during "trough of sorrow" times because the friendship keeps them in it. It'll also make things more fun if you're putting in those long hours with someone that you enjoy spending time with.
But you shouldn't choose a close friend that you wouldn't choose as a cofounder if you had just met them. It's very important that they be skilled and motivated enough that they're a real asset to the startup.
... My first startup hasn't even written a line of code yet (We're doing Node Knockout (http://nodeknockout.com/) this weekend and building the MVP as our entry.), so take that all with a grain of salt. But my cofounders are my close friend and his close friend, and I'm very happy about that.
Friends won't always have the extremely honest and frank business conversations needed. I can give anecdotal evidence of this as I was lucky to work at a record label startup founded by friends.
Both were 100% behind the company, but it took some 5 years to fully understand that 1 friend loved music (and saw the startup as a means to create the right environment for creative artists, viewing money as a side effect of that creativity) and the other loved money (and saw the startup as a means to create an environment in which to make money and viewed the creative process as a hindrance in the generation of product).
It ended quite badly, the friendship was deeply affected by this and the signings reflected a pendulum shift from creativity to product creation.
It has been argued that friendships will inhibit the asking of the kind of questions that would've rooted that out and in either scenario made it more successful, indeed that's my view of this one instance.
So yes, friendship can be a real problem.
Not that it's that black and white, friendships can also be a real boon as PG has mentioned it can be the difference that makes people stick with it through the harder times.
So there's nothing conclusive either way. Depends on the people involved.
Both were 100% behind the company, but it took some 5 years to fully understand that 1 friend loved music (and saw the startup as a means to create the right environment for creative artists, viewing money as a side effect of that creativity) and the other loved money (and saw the startup as a means to create an environment in which to make money and viewed the creative process as a hindrance in the generation of product).
It ended quite badly, the friendship was deeply affected by this and the signings reflected a pendulum shift from creativity to product creation.
It has been argued that friendships will inhibit the asking of the kind of questions that would've rooted that out and in either scenario made it more successful, indeed that's my view of this one instance.
So yes, friendship can be a real problem.
Not that it's that black and white, friendships can also be a real boon as PG has mentioned it can be the difference that makes people stick with it through the harder times.
So there's nothing conclusive either way. Depends on the people involved.
So, my co-founder and I met during our studies in Singapore but we met at least in part because of Hacker News.
Before moving to Singapore I updated my profile on HN saying that I would move there. A few weeks after I had arrived in Singapore I got an email from Ata asking if I was interested to meet up. And that is when the "mating dance" began ;-)
Over a period of six months we started exchanging ideas and building trust. We brainstormed a little each time we met and after about five months I told Ata about this idea, my nugget, that I had been thinking about for 8 months then. I didn't hear from Ata for about two weeks after that meeting and started to worry a little. But two weeks later I had an email from him in my Inbox which contained the URL to a prototype. That sealed the deal between us. A few weeks later, we signed a declaration of intent, and we have been moving forward full throttle since then.
So far the collaboration hasn't always been easy - we are still getting to know each other and working from two different locations doesn't make that easier - but we have found ways to get things done. Starting up with a friend might be easier because you know each other very well but I found a new friend and our relationship isn't loaded with baggage from earlier.
Before moving to Singapore I updated my profile on HN saying that I would move there. A few weeks after I had arrived in Singapore I got an email from Ata asking if I was interested to meet up. And that is when the "mating dance" began ;-)
Over a period of six months we started exchanging ideas and building trust. We brainstormed a little each time we met and after about five months I told Ata about this idea, my nugget, that I had been thinking about for 8 months then. I didn't hear from Ata for about two weeks after that meeting and started to worry a little. But two weeks later I had an email from him in my Inbox which contained the URL to a prototype. That sealed the deal between us. A few weeks later, we signed a declaration of intent, and we have been moving forward full throttle since then.
So far the collaboration hasn't always been easy - we are still getting to know each other and working from two different locations doesn't make that easier - but we have found ways to get things done. Starting up with a friend might be easier because you know each other very well but I found a new friend and our relationship isn't loaded with baggage from earlier.
There are some people who are lucky enough to have friends that have the same drive to succeed, but I think they are in the minority.
I found my co-founder through the co-founder wish list. I couldn't be happier. We were not good friends at first, but friendship comes easily when you are both working hard towards the same goal.
Something that is super important (other than skill) is motivation. If you've got to do some convincing to get a friend to work with you on an idea, it probably won't get too far.
I found my co-founder through the co-founder wish list. I couldn't be happier. We were not good friends at first, but friendship comes easily when you are both working hard towards the same goal.
Something that is super important (other than skill) is motivation. If you've got to do some convincing to get a friend to work with you on an idea, it probably won't get too far.
I married my co-founder. Five years later, when we were both working at GE Capital, we started a side business that grew rapidly. Having my wife as a co-founder was the best of all worlds...I wanted to not only share my life with her, but all the minor and major ups and downs of the startup too.
(Now that we're preparing for our 3rd child -- due in 2months -- I'm not sure which has more ups and downs, kids or the startup!)
(Now that we're preparing for our 3rd child -- due in 2months -- I'm not sure which has more ups and downs, kids or the startup!)
My co-founder and I met through his previous startup UpDown.com. I was an early user for the site and he was one of the first employees.
We would chat everyday on IM and he would ask me product feedback, design, new ideas, etc for UpDown. We both independently moved out to the bay area and just started working on random ideas together.
It was cool because we got to work together long in advance from being co-founders and we were also friends beforehand. Personally I think its always a upside to knowing how the other person works and being in a productive environment with your potential co-founder in advance.
We would chat everyday on IM and he would ask me product feedback, design, new ideas, etc for UpDown. We both independently moved out to the bay area and just started working on random ideas together.
It was cool because we got to work together long in advance from being co-founders and we were also friends beforehand. Personally I think its always a upside to knowing how the other person works and being in a productive environment with your potential co-founder in advance.
My co-founder and I (we run a smallish, growing business, but not what would typically be called a "startup") met at high school (aged 11 or 12). We then went to different colleges, shared a house after university, worked for other people for a bit and then started our company.
I can't imagine founding with someone I didn't know incredibly well - though I don't think you need to go as far as we did and choose your best friend. In any case, as others have said, make sure that your friends are actually good at stuff.
I suspect this also only works if you have the kind of friendship that is built on talking business all the time too. It is actually the foundation of our friendship in many ways so I think that reduces the risks involved (though not to zero, obviously).
There is clearly some personality-type stuff going on here too though - my wife was also my friend for years before we got together...
I can't imagine founding with someone I didn't know incredibly well - though I don't think you need to go as far as we did and choose your best friend. In any case, as others have said, make sure that your friends are actually good at stuff.
I suspect this also only works if you have the kind of friendship that is built on talking business all the time too. It is actually the foundation of our friendship in many ways so I think that reduces the risks involved (though not to zero, obviously).
There is clearly some personality-type stuff going on here too though - my wife was also my friend for years before we got together...
Are you from the US or did you skip a few grades? In the US high school is generally regarded as the four years prior to graduation (freshman-senior year). Usually you enter that around age 14 or 15. Age 11 or 12 would correspond more closely to middle school or junior high (even if the school happened to have those sequences in the same physical building).
Sorry - yeah - I'm in the UK. We have "high school" from 11-16 or 11-18 depending on whether you take A levels (we did).
UK state school system (at least where I went to school) looks something like: 4 or 5 --> about 8 == infant school 8 --> 10 == junior school 11 --> 18 == secondary school / high school
UK state school system (at least where I went to school) looks something like: 4 or 5 --> about 8 == infant school 8 --> 10 == junior school 11 --> 18 == secondary school / high school
Just be rational and logical with your decisions; having similarity with someone personality-wise helps mostly because you will be more likely to keep in touch (not necessarily business) and keep discussions going. My collaborator and I were not "best buddies" before starting but we did have limited experience together in project based school work. Things like startupweekend might be a good testing ground [for a relationship]. I also found out being overly dismissive of your collaborator's approach on something is unnecessary; always be first to offer the other to prototype their idea out, if it sucks or is going nowhere, make your version. Be objective. The best way to find trust is to express it yourself. Be sure to take care of yourself, so that way if you do have to move on, you can do so painlessly.
I saw this earlier and this is why I think a co-founder should be a friend.
'What is a friend? I will tell you...it is someone with whom you dare to be yourself."
This is so important when working together, you need to be able to tell them exactly how you feel, to receive honest feedback and take it in the right way.
Brothers/Sisters and or friends, I think, make the best co-founders. As it is with these people that we can be ourselves which can only be good for your startup. If you go into business with someone then you need to trust them implicitly, if you have this level of trust in place then I firmly believe your partnership can flourish and therefore so can your startup.
'What is a friend? I will tell you...it is someone with whom you dare to be yourself."
This is so important when working together, you need to be able to tell them exactly how you feel, to receive honest feedback and take it in the right way.
Brothers/Sisters and or friends, I think, make the best co-founders. As it is with these people that we can be ourselves which can only be good for your startup. If you go into business with someone then you need to trust them implicitly, if you have this level of trust in place then I firmly believe your partnership can flourish and therefore so can your startup.
One of the best ways I've found is to volunteer your time. This makes sense for a few reasons.
A. The people you are with are also likely volunteers (opensource, event/meeting organizers, etc), which means you will meet people with a favorable attitude/mindset/values. The people with the most to give are the ones with the most value.
B. You have the same interests as them.
C. Volunteers are commonly a very diverse spread of people (experience/jobs/projects/goals/etc).
D. Meeting people like this makes it easy to keep things casual, or move into a partnership type relationship.
A. The people you are with are also likely volunteers (opensource, event/meeting organizers, etc), which means you will meet people with a favorable attitude/mindset/values. The people with the most to give are the ones with the most value.
B. You have the same interests as them.
C. Volunteers are commonly a very diverse spread of people (experience/jobs/projects/goals/etc).
D. Meeting people like this makes it easy to keep things casual, or move into a partnership type relationship.
All three of us had worked together at a previous company.
I think this is important. One time, I started a company with someone I had not previously worked with, and that was a mistake.
People's professional working style can be very different from their non-professional leisure style, which is why I think it's critical to have previously spent time with your cofounder in a work environment.
However, that's just me. Ultimately, finding a cofounder is like finding a spouse - there's no universal, prescriptive formula short of "meet a lot of people".
I think this is important. One time, I started a company with someone I had not previously worked with, and that was a mistake.
People's professional working style can be very different from their non-professional leisure style, which is why I think it's critical to have previously spent time with your cofounder in a work environment.
However, that's just me. Ultimately, finding a cofounder is like finding a spouse - there's no universal, prescriptive formula short of "meet a lot of people".
I met my co-founder through an IRC chat room specialising on the topic. He was the only other one still there until 4am. After our initial meeting to check out his personality and make sure he wasn't a maniac, I had another meeting with him where I asked him a bunch of technical questions. I did the same thing with three or four other people, it was obvious by his reaction to my process we were going to get along well.
Velocity, the entrepreneurial residence, at University of Waterloo: http://velocity.uwaterloo.ca/
I gave a talk at a barcamp, he gave a talk at a barcamp.
and that was it :)
More seriously (even if the emoticon is a real one), I think we both had been looking for the opportunity to meet a co-founder for a long time. Maybe he disagrees, but I think we both had a clear idea of what we wanted and what we wanted NOT.
I registered our current startup URL, 1y1/2ago, I personally had presented a project idea to several handful of hackers before we met each other. It is like when buying a house, you see many, you sharpen your judgment & taste, but when you find the one: you sign very quickly, because you have that deep warm gut-feeling.
It does not mean everything will be rosy all the time. I think we both already know this. But the one key element for me was a true sense of respect. This guy had sharp comments from day 1. Different ideas of how to go about the implementation (I already had put a prototype together with the help of another engineer (more than hacker)) we threw this away and restarted from scratch, thanks to his input.
He was understanding the idea from day 1 because he is that type of driven person, in sports, hacking, and a demanding human (his NYTimes covered app may shock some). He is international minded, open. He share the same crazy goal on our startup 1st $M.
I learn with him a lot, I discover a lot, it is all exhilarating, and the guy while being good at what he does and in general (to use a litote;), he still has this down to Earth humbleness. Respect.
And this respect emulates me to do my utter best so that our startup kicks a.. and so that on my part I don't screw up that chance. From what I see in what he does, it seems he feels the same. Grateful.
There are few times in your life when you think you are in front of a positive black swan. Maybe we see our startup as something bigger than ourselves, maybe we share that sense of awe.
I registered our current startup URL, 1y1/2ago, I personally had presented a project idea to several handful of hackers before we met each other. It is like when buying a house, you see many, you sharpen your judgment & taste, but when you find the one: you sign very quickly, because you have that deep warm gut-feeling.
It does not mean everything will be rosy all the time. I think we both already know this. But the one key element for me was a true sense of respect. This guy had sharp comments from day 1. Different ideas of how to go about the implementation (I already had put a prototype together with the help of another engineer (more than hacker)) we threw this away and restarted from scratch, thanks to his input.
He was understanding the idea from day 1 because he is that type of driven person, in sports, hacking, and a demanding human (his NYTimes covered app may shock some). He is international minded, open. He share the same crazy goal on our startup 1st $M.
I learn with him a lot, I discover a lot, it is all exhilarating, and the guy while being good at what he does and in general (to use a litote;), he still has this down to Earth humbleness. Respect.
And this respect emulates me to do my utter best so that our startup kicks a.. and so that on my part I don't screw up that chance. From what I see in what he does, it seems he feels the same. Grateful.
There are few times in your life when you think you are in front of a positive black swan. Maybe we see our startup as something bigger than ourselves, maybe we share that sense of awe.
There seem to be two conflicting types of advice. Some say to work with a good friend, someone you already know and trust. Others say to never work with your friends because if you fail, and chances are you will, then you lose both the business and the friendship. What do you think?