Steve Jobs Responds To The Antenna Issue: Hold It Different Or Use A Case(techcrunch.com)
techcrunch.com
Steve Jobs Responds To The Antenna Issue: Hold It Different Or Use A Case
http://techcrunch.com/2010/06/24/iphone-4-antenna-issue/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29&utm_content=FaceBook
69 comments
I'm not happy at all about how Apple is responding to this.
Admitting that they fucked up will cut into their profits. Convincing people that the phone is fine and that the user is the problem moves more units.
Apple has investors like any other company. This move is good for the investors.
Admitting that they fucked up will cut into their profits. Convincing people that the phone is fine and that the user is the problem moves more units.
Apple has investors like any other company. This move is good for the investors.
> Apple has investors like any other company. This move is good for the investors.
Any move that is bad for the customers won't be good for investors.
There is no short term vs long term thinking once you reached profitability and have cash reserves. The short term will inevitably become the long term.
The _responsible_ thing to do for your investors is to solve problems before they get any more expensive to solve. i.e. solve your problems _now_
You have to simultaneously satisfy customers, investors, employees and the community you operate within. If you cannot wrap your head around that you cannot be trusted by anyone because you will always be sacrificing one for the other to save your incompetent ass.
Sheesh. This is not rocket science.
Any move that is bad for the customers won't be good for investors.
There is no short term vs long term thinking once you reached profitability and have cash reserves. The short term will inevitably become the long term.
The _responsible_ thing to do for your investors is to solve problems before they get any more expensive to solve. i.e. solve your problems _now_
You have to simultaneously satisfy customers, investors, employees and the community you operate within. If you cannot wrap your head around that you cannot be trusted by anyone because you will always be sacrificing one for the other to save your incompetent ass.
Sheesh. This is not rocket science.
It's a shame you feel that way, but down-voting the truth is not going to fix your economy, un-pollute your oceans nor end your wars.
Feel free to shout once you've had enough and want the beatings to stop.
:-)
Feel free to shout once you've had enough and want the beatings to stop.
:-)
And if I were an investor, I would be wondering what the FUCK they were doing shipping a product with as big a flaw as this.
This is shit that should have been corrected in the DESIGN stage.
This is shit that should have been corrected in the DESIGN stage.
> wondering what the FUCK they were doing shipping a product with as big a flaw as this
most likely, the reason being that they field-tested this whole thing with 3gs look-alike dielectric (non-conducting) case...
most likely, the reason being that they field-tested this whole thing with 3gs look-alike dielectric (non-conducting) case...
Or maybe they just thought AT&T had really crap reception wherever they went?
Admittedly that's a flippant remark but I still haven't seen any indication as to what proportion of users are having the problem. It's getting press because it's Apple, not necessarily because huge proportions of users are having issues. I expect someone here will correct me if I'm wrong though.
Admittedly that's a flippant remark but I still haven't seen any indication as to what proportion of users are having the problem. It's getting press because it's Apple, not necessarily because huge proportions of users are having issues. I expect someone here will correct me if I'm wrong though.
no design ought to sacrifice usability, no matter how beautiful
That way leads to the Homer Simpson car. Every design makes trades away from an ideal of usability for aesthetic reasons as well as cost and practicality.
That way leads to the Homer Simpson car. Every design makes trades away from an ideal of usability for aesthetic reasons as well as cost and practicality.
Apple's design has never been especially humanistic (in the sense that things are shaped to the peculiarities of the human body)--the sharp right angles on the MacBooks that cut into your wrists at certain typing angles, or the old undersized puck mouse, or some of the awkwardness for some people using the Mighty Mouse, for instance--so this isn't a very surprising flaw. Add to that Steve's stubbornness in terms of admitting mistakes, and this happens. It's a pretty awesome idea making the structural part of the phone the antenna, but obviously doesn't work if you hold it the "wrong" way.
I think using structural elements as part of the antenna is quite common, it's making them visible and touchable by the user that's new.
Apple is simply trying to revolutionize the way we hold our phones
I was expecting to read this on Daring Fireball.
Gruber's actual comment: "I don’t know if this signal-degradation-in-left-hand thing is really a widespread problem or not yet, but it’s not reasonable to tell people not to hold the phone this way."
http://daringfireball.net/linked/2010/06/24/iphone-hold
http://daringfireball.net/linked/2010/06/24/iphone-hold
Wow, Gruber's comments are really terse when he's disagreeing with Apple.
Kind of disappointed since I expected some kind of ass-pulled argument about what Apple wants.
Kind of disappointed since I expected some kind of ass-pulled argument about what Apple wants.
He's mentioned that neither himself or anyone of a number or friends he's asked has been able to reproduce the problem. How could he possibly write exhaustively on the topic at this point, given the lack of information and personal experience of it?
> has been able to reproduce the problem
Are you talking about the lost signal on iPhones, or are you talking about Apple's response? ... because the later is the real problem for me.
Will the next iPhone have a working antenna in the list of features?
Are you talking about the lost signal on iPhones, or are you talking about Apple's response? ... because the later is the real problem for me.
Will the next iPhone have a working antenna in the list of features?
What's your ideal Apple response?
If it's true, we fucked up, sorry, we'll try not to do it again.
You are assuming that it is a big fuck up that affects a lot of units and/or people, and that the way a phone is held usually doesn't affect its reception. You are also implying that the iPhone 4 antenna has worse performance than its predecessors. Neither of these things are conclusive, and some reports suggest the opposite.
Hypothetically, what if these things aren't true, then what would be the appropriate Apple response?
Hypothetically, what if these things aren't true, then what would be the appropriate Apple response?
"We have reasons to believe these reports aren't true and that in fact the antenna is better than in the previous versions; nevertheless we are taking steps to investigate this issue"
There, is that so hard? ... No, telling a customer to not hold it like that is not acceptable ... WTF is Jobs smoking? Fortunately for him these news have a closed circuit, as only technically inclined people have an interest in such things; nevertheless ... what if it's a real problem with those phones and it turns out to upset lots of regular people?
There, is that so hard? ... No, telling a customer to not hold it like that is not acceptable ... WTF is Jobs smoking? Fortunately for him these news have a closed circuit, as only technically inclined people have an interest in such things; nevertheless ... what if it's a real problem with those phones and it turns out to upset lots of regular people?
Apple: Hold Different.
Maybe Jobs needed to hold the iPhone4 differently during the keynote instead of telling everyone to turn off their MiFi, laptops, etc.
Masking tape over the lower left corner has been demonstrated to solve the problem. I'm wondering if clear nail polish might also do the job.
Anyone have any idea as to why the human body might be causing attenuation whereas other materials don't?
Anyone have any idea as to why the human body might be causing attenuation whereas other materials don't?
> Masking tape over the lower left corner has been demonstrated to solve the problem
You know, I read this tip in a few forums. What bugs me, though, is this: I buy an 800$ design icon (yes, it costs that much here if you want it unlocked and I _never_ buy a locked phone) to then apply a couple of layers of gaffer tape on my brand new design icon, so that it works halfway as advertised?
It could be me and the fact that my > 5 year old Nokia 9300 is burning holes into my brain tissue, but somehow this really seems completely far-out..
You know, I read this tip in a few forums. What bugs me, though, is this: I buy an 800$ design icon (yes, it costs that much here if you want it unlocked and I _never_ buy a locked phone) to then apply a couple of layers of gaffer tape on my brand new design icon, so that it works halfway as advertised?
It could be me and the fact that my > 5 year old Nokia 9300 is burning holes into my brain tissue, but somehow this really seems completely far-out..
The human body is conductive, so the masking tape acts as an insulator. I'm wondering at exactly what shape the antenna inside the phone is, if it can be affected that easily.
If you've ever played around with short-wave radio (I suppose people do need to be older than a certain age to have done that :) ) it's possible to improve reception if you touch the antenna.
If you've ever played around with short-wave radio (I suppose people do need to be older than a certain age to have done that :) ) it's possible to improve reception if you touch the antenna.
Buy a device for $200+ and fix it with duct tape.
Every man should be able to fix something with a hammer, a screwdriver, and some duct tape.
I kick my tower computer good and regular, it silences that pesky yammering fan, and keeps it from showing me attitude.
Occasionally i just glare at it menacingly, by now it learned.
Every man should be able to fix something with a hammer, a screwdriver, and some duct tape.
I kick my tower computer good and regular, it silences that pesky yammering fan, and keeps it from showing me attitude.
Occasionally i just glare at it menacingly, by now it learned.
The shape of the antenna is the metal running on the outside of it :P
That is the problem.
That is the problem.
Maybe they will just start putting some clear finish over iPhones from the factory to fix the issue.
I usually approve of Jobs's candid replies, but not this time.
I mean, holding it a different way isn't necessarily that tall of an order, but if anything is wrong here it's not the user's hand position- it's the antenna, and the user is being asked to compensate for Apple.
I mean, holding it a different way isn't necessarily that tall of an order, but if anything is wrong here it's not the user's hand position- it's the antenna, and the user is being asked to compensate for Apple.
The user is being asked to compensate for the laws of reality.
It's a hand sized device that you hold in your hand. Some holding positions will shield the antenna. As various people and videos show, this is also the case with iPhone 3Gs, iPhone originals and other phone makes and models.
And anyway, they're not being forced to tolerate the intolerable, they can always return the phone and buy a different one.
It's a hand sized device that you hold in your hand. Some holding positions will shield the antenna. As various people and videos show, this is also the case with iPhone 3Gs, iPhone originals and other phone makes and models.
And anyway, they're not being forced to tolerate the intolerable, they can always return the phone and buy a different one.
> The user is being asked to compensate for the laws of reality.
No the user is being asked to compensate for shitty design. I've yet to have a phone that dramatically loses signal when holding it, and all my phones have had internal antennas. If Apple can't do one of the basics of phone design (you know, making the cellular phone work) it is only and will forever only be their fault.
I stick my motorola phone under my leg (I'm saying literally under my fat ass) whilst in the company truck so I can feel it vibrate and still seem to get enough reception, even in dead zones, to receive texts and calls. If my phone can work through about a foot of flesh, then an iPhone should easily be working through an inch of flesh.
No the user is being asked to compensate for shitty design. I've yet to have a phone that dramatically loses signal when holding it, and all my phones have had internal antennas. If Apple can't do one of the basics of phone design (you know, making the cellular phone work) it is only and will forever only be their fault.
I stick my motorola phone under my leg (I'm saying literally under my fat ass) whilst in the company truck so I can feel it vibrate and still seem to get enough reception, even in dead zones, to receive texts and calls. If my phone can work through about a foot of flesh, then an iPhone should easily be working through an inch of flesh.
Engineering is about trade-offs. Pro - Better reception and less dropped calls than previous iPhones, Thinnest Smartphone on the market. Con - some people are experiencing diminished reception when the phone is held in a certain way. If you think the cons outweigh the benefits, don't buy it or return it, it's as simple as that. Apple doesn't give a shit, there will be 10s of millions of people this year who will perceive the benefits of the external antenna design as easily compensating for its negatives.
False choice. Why not have a phone with better reception and fewer dropped calls AND good reception no matter how the phone is held? If this a problem that can be solved with a 0.4" strip of tape, then obviously Apple had the option. They simply overlooked it.
Also, the issue isn't whether or not we're forced to purchase a product we don't like. That is a subtle straw man. The issue is whether or not Apple made wise engineering decisions, and whether or not Jobs is exhibiting the appropriate attitude towards Apple's customers, who WANT to spend their money on a nice iPhone, but are having trouble with Apple's shitty design.
Also, the issue isn't whether or not we're forced to purchase a product we don't like. That is a subtle straw man. The issue is whether or not Apple made wise engineering decisions, and whether or not Jobs is exhibiting the appropriate attitude towards Apple's customers, who WANT to spend their money on a nice iPhone, but are having trouble with Apple's shitty design.
Well, apple could have just added a telescoping antenna like the phones of 10 years ago, but that would seem to kind of break the aesthetic, wouldn't it?
If my phone can work through about a foot of flesh, then an iPhone should easily be working through an inch of flesh.
If the claims of it being solved with a bumper or layer of insulating material are accurate, then it does work through an inch of flesh, what it doesn't do is work when the flesh is electrically connecting two separate parts of the antenna system.
If the claims of it being solved with a bumper or layer of insulating material are accurate, then it does work through an inch of flesh, what it doesn't do is work when the flesh is electrically connecting two separate parts of the antenna system.
I seems Jobs has started falling back on "change the way you do things, not that big a deal", a little too often these days.
One of these days it will be that big a deal.
One of these days it will be that big a deal.
I know he suggested a company rename and now using your device in a way that doesn't stop it working - when else?
How about wait in line for 10 hours even though you have a reservation and it'd be trivial for us to get you your device in minutes just so we can have a photo-op. Not that big a deal.
It used to be Apple fit the we wanted to live, now they want us to go out of our way to conform to them.
It used to be Apple fit the we wanted to live, now they want us to go out of our way to conform to them.
Where did he say that?
Now I am really starting to feel for ATT. I can't help but feel that it might be the iPhone(3G and 3GS) that should be blamed for all the dropped calls and not ATT :P
A man stopped at Murray the Tailor's shop to pick up his new suit. Trying it on, he noticed that one sleeve was longer than the other. Murray waved it off: "Just pull your right shoulder back and bend your elbow a bit." The man did this, and was pleased with the look of the sleeve.
"It also looks like one pant leg is longer than the other" the man continued. Murray the Tailor shrugged. "No problem. Lean to your left a little bit, and don't bend that knee so much when you walk." The man pulled his shoulder back, bent his elbow, leaned to his left and strolled in front of the mirror with one leg stiffened. The suit was perfect... except...
"Should this collar ride up so high?" Murray the Tailor smiled indulgently, and chided "You shouldn't let your head droop so low. Push it back so people can see you!" He guided the man's chin up, up, far enough so that the back of the man's head just closed the distance to the collar.
The man studied himself in the mirror and was satisfied. He left the shop wearing the suit and strode happily down the sidewalk, leaning left, stiff legged, one arm held at an odd angle and head back with chin pointing straight ahead. He was noticed by a pair of bystanders, and one of them remarked:
"Murray must be one damn good tailor. Look how he managed to fit that cripple."
"It also looks like one pant leg is longer than the other" the man continued. Murray the Tailor shrugged. "No problem. Lean to your left a little bit, and don't bend that knee so much when you walk." The man pulled his shoulder back, bent his elbow, leaned to his left and strolled in front of the mirror with one leg stiffened. The suit was perfect... except...
"Should this collar ride up so high?" Murray the Tailor smiled indulgently, and chided "You shouldn't let your head droop so low. Push it back so people can see you!" He guided the man's chin up, up, far enough so that the back of the man's head just closed the distance to the collar.
The man studied himself in the mirror and was satisfied. He left the shop wearing the suit and strode happily down the sidewalk, leaning left, stiff legged, one arm held at an odd angle and head back with chin pointing straight ahead. He was noticed by a pair of bystanders, and one of them remarked:
"Murray must be one damn good tailor. Look how he managed to fit that cripple."
This is a ridiculous response to a serious issue, but what confuses me is how some iPhones seem to be affected while others aren't. If it's just a matter of a short between the antennas due to a bad design decision, shouldn't it be universal? (I've tried and tried to replicate the issue with mine, but I haven't been able to.)
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, but it seems obvious that "hold it differently" is not a viable option.
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out, but it seems obvious that "hold it differently" is not a viable option.
Relevant image: http://i.imgur.com/zAJ0y.jpg
Apple people are Bastiat fans. Who knew? :)
http://goo.gl/5jEe
http://goo.gl/5jEe
Here's what I think Jobs really meant: http://funnyfailpictures.com/2008/12/cell-phone-fail-picture...
Aaaand we've come full circle again, where people start to realize that Apple is, like Microsoft, a gigantic company that doesn't care about anyone.
Maybe we can all move to open-source platforms, so that we can fill the Blogosphere (tm) with self-righteous bullshit about Ubuntu before being swept up by the next commercial trend. Gee, it took a shiny user interface and a meticulously-engineered corporate image to sucker in that last batch, how low can be set the bar this time?
I hate humanity.
Maybe we can all move to open-source platforms, so that we can fill the Blogosphere (tm) with self-righteous bullshit about Ubuntu before being swept up by the next commercial trend. Gee, it took a shiny user interface and a meticulously-engineered corporate image to sucker in that last batch, how low can be set the bar this time?
I hate humanity.
If a comment from Jobs about the latest release of Apple's product leads you to hate humanity… well let's just say you're going to have trouble with society in general. There is far worse.
Oh, on a second reading I guess it's the people getting suckered in without learning that makes you feel that way… Like this classic xkcd comic: http://xkcd.com/743/
I would say this: Cheer up! The vocal minority of shiny-chasing blogoshpere complainers is not representative of humanity in any way! Most people are quite happy with their iPhones and Steve Jobs knows it.
Oh, on a second reading I guess it's the people getting suckered in without learning that makes you feel that way… Like this classic xkcd comic: http://xkcd.com/743/
I would say this: Cheer up! The vocal minority of shiny-chasing blogoshpere complainers is not representative of humanity in any way! Most people are quite happy with their iPhones and Steve Jobs knows it.
If a comment from Jobs about the latest release of Apple's product leads you to hate humanity… well let's just say you're going to have trouble with society in general. There is far worse.
It wasn't that particular comment I was referring to. But thanks for being patronizing!
It wasn't that particular comment I was referring to. But thanks for being patronizing!
> Aaaand we've come full circle again, where people start to realize that Apple is, like Microsoft, a gigantic company that doesn't care about anyone.
I hope nobody realizes this, since they're quite different. MS's primary market is OEMs and businesses, and they care about selling to them.
> Gee, it took a shiny user interface and a meticulously-engineered corporate image to sucker in that last batch, how low can be set the bar this time?
Would you prefer it if shiny interfaces actively drove people away?
I hope nobody realizes this, since they're quite different. MS's primary market is OEMs and businesses, and they care about selling to them.
> Gee, it took a shiny user interface and a meticulously-engineered corporate image to sucker in that last batch, how low can be set the bar this time?
Would you prefer it if shiny interfaces actively drove people away?
Is $29 for a case really that expensive if you just bought an iphone?
Considering those bumpers probably cost less than a dollar to make, and are apparently quite essential to the product working properly in some instances, the $29 is kind of a slap in the face. On the 16GB model the bumper costs 15% much as the phone itself. The bumper probably costs less than the packaging you throw into the trash. (which is not required to make the phone work properly)
It's definitely not, but if I had purchased an iPhone 4 I'd be more than a little bit pissed off about this response. One of the most advertised and promoted features of the new iPhone is it's stunningly beautiful design. To then have to stuff it in a case that hides that design and makes it look like pretty much any other phone... just seems wrong.
Cases suck. It's not the cost, it's having some cheesy looking piece of rubber on your phone.
$29 for what amounts to a repair module for your phone does seem a bit pricy, considering it's broken from the factory.
It's $29 because that's what the market said it's willing to pay for a piece of rubber and plastic. Basic market economics. If the market's not willing to pay, then the market will adjust the price. Apparently the market's willing to pay $29.
Talk about sweeping statements. There is a hell of a lot more to "Basic market economics" than "If the market's not willing to pay, then the market will adjust the price" but thanks for ridiculing everyone in the field.
In this particular instance, cases are just an accessory market for Apple. They don't care if they are selling as many of these as possible because it's not even a secondary revenue stream. They can afford to let it just sit there at $29 until it rots or someone buys it.
In this particular instance, cases are just an accessory market for Apple. They don't care if they are selling as many of these as possible because it's not even a secondary revenue stream. They can afford to let it just sit there at $29 until it rots or someone buys it.
Ok, that's just plain wrong. Stores like the Apple Store or Fry's make their biggest margins on the accessories. Of course they care about selling as many any the can. You really think the margin on an iPhone is anywhere nearly as big as the margin on a rubber iPhone case?
Any economist will tell you there is cost associated with having inventory sitting on the shelves and not moving. Floorspace in an Apple Store, or any store for that matter, isn't free. There's rent, opportunity cost, maintenance, etc. Basically, if people stopped paying high prices for rubber cases at a store, the store will drop the price because there's cost associated with it sitting there. Maybe Apple can endure a lot more pain than their competitors, but that's not magic, that's because of the pile of cash they're sitting on. If they had less cash, they wouldn't be able to endure as much pain in the market. Yes, maybe there's other forces at work, but basic market forces don't stop applying just because it's Apple.
Any economist will tell you there is cost associated with having inventory sitting on the shelves and not moving. Floorspace in an Apple Store, or any store for that matter, isn't free. There's rent, opportunity cost, maintenance, etc. Basically, if people stopped paying high prices for rubber cases at a store, the store will drop the price because there's cost associated with it sitting there. Maybe Apple can endure a lot more pain than their competitors, but that's not magic, that's because of the pile of cash they're sitting on. If they had less cash, they wouldn't be able to endure as much pain in the market. Yes, maybe there's other forces at work, but basic market forces don't stop applying just because it's Apple.
>Maybe Apple can endure a lot more pain than their competitors, but that's not magic, that's because of the pile of cash they're sitting on.
Exactly. They make enough margin on other things to not be forced to be so aggressive with pricing on other things.
>but basic market forces don't stop applying just because it's Apple.
My point was: the cost of things is much more complicated than "basic market forces" [1].
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pricing_strategies
Exactly. They make enough margin on other things to not be forced to be so aggressive with pricing on other things.
>but basic market forces don't stop applying just because it's Apple.
My point was: the cost of things is much more complicated than "basic market forces" [1].
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pricing_strategies
The point is that any price for an that's required as a repair kit for a defective product is too much.
There are plenty of manufacturers who will sell it for it's true price. :) Dealextreme.com
Certainly, but it doesn't change the fact that the market recognizes a place for the $29 product. You can walk into the Apple store and see ridiculously priced cases. It's because people are willing to pay. The market sets the price. If someone doesn't like it, they have a choice. It's the beauty of markets.
You can argue about markets setting the prices if those prices change. I doubt the $29 price point is going to fluctuate anytime soon. Apple picked a price, not the 'market' and that's where it'll stay. Whether the market will bear it is an open question.
Pricing products can be a complicated issue and can involve more than just market forces.
Pricing products can be a complicated issue and can involve more than just market forces.
Is $300 really that much to get some bumpers, if you just bought a new car?
Worse yet, adding those bumpers, and most cases, makes the whole 'square edge to allow the phone to sit up and act as a camera on a table' feature, er thing, not work.
No, but on my 3g I dont use a case simply because that makes the phone bulkier and most cases make you drag your entire pocket out along with the phone.
[deleted]
I suppose this is a trivial feature of iPad's design, since it clearly doesn't apply to iPhone 4, which is beginning to epitomize form over function--no design ought to sacrifice usability, no matter how beautiful. It becomes simply bad, sub-optimal design.
I'm not happy at all about how Apple is responding to this.