Atlanta to San Francisco: What I Learned Moving Cross-Country(paulstamatiou.com)
paulstamatiou.com
Atlanta to San Francisco: What I Learned Moving Cross-Country
http://paulstamatiou.com/atlanta-to-san-francisco-moving-cross-country
13 comments
I noticed the same pattern as I've been moving around the last few years.
Transportation is huge -- there was a big difference for me moving even just two metro stops farther from my job in Paris.
Jonah Lehrer wrote a post on this a while ago: http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2010/03/commuting.php
Transportation is huge -- there was a big difference for me moving even just two metro stops farther from my job in Paris.
Jonah Lehrer wrote a post on this a while ago: http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2010/03/commuting.php
According to the calculations of Frey and Stutzer, a person with a one-hour commute
has to earn 40 percent more money to be as satisfied with life as someone who walks to
the office.Its always interesting to me to see people's reactions when moving from poorly planned sprawling cities to some of the better planned more organically laid out cities in the US (DC, NY, Chicago, Portland, SF, etc) your quality of life changes drastically when you get to leave the car behind and walk around or just hop on efficient public transit and go anywhere you want.
I'm moving from the east coast to Seattle this week and I'm most excited about the idea of crossing a continent. Its amazing how our mind can underestimate the size of the US and how few and far between chances to take a true cross country road trip are.
I'm moving from the east coast to Seattle this week and I'm most excited about the idea of crossing a continent. Its amazing how our mind can underestimate the size of the US and how few and far between chances to take a true cross country road trip are.
I could not agree more. I've taken Amtrak's Empire Builder from Chicago to Seattle and Portland several times and each time the size of the US was simply awesome.
I highly recommend doing it. In the fall and winter the cross country ticket is $170 each way and if you upgrade to a roomette, $300 each way (meals included).
Sitting for a dinner chat with a different group for 3 nights in a row + staring out the window at Glacier National Park is definitely worth the cost.
I highly recommend doing it. In the fall and winter the cross country ticket is $170 each way and if you upgrade to a roomette, $300 each way (meals included).
Sitting for a dinner chat with a different group for 3 nights in a row + staring out the window at Glacier National Park is definitely worth the cost.
You can thank me for subsidizing that low cost with my Boston - NYC trips which cost well over $100 each way. Often you can fly from Boston to LaGuardia for less than the train. High fares on the east coast routes subsidize those cheap cross country "named" trains.
Pro tip: Never buy a ticket on a named train i.e. "Empire Builder", "Vermonter" when just trying to get between cities - they are frequently many hours late.
Oh, and that Verizon wireless commercial that shows a guy spotting a good looking girl already on a train and he quickly changes his ticket using his smart phone; that can't be done, not even with a voice call. To change an Amtrak ticket you have to physically take the ticket to a ticket window.
Just about every time I take Amtrak I get pissed-off by the high cost and indifferent service.
Pro tip: Never buy a ticket on a named train i.e. "Empire Builder", "Vermonter" when just trying to get between cities - they are frequently many hours late.
Oh, and that Verizon wireless commercial that shows a guy spotting a good looking girl already on a train and he quickly changes his ticket using his smart phone; that can't be done, not even with a voice call. To change an Amtrak ticket you have to physically take the ticket to a ticket window.
Just about every time I take Amtrak I get pissed-off by the high cost and indifferent service.
> You can thank me for subsidizing that low cost with my Boston - NYC trips which cost well over $100 each way. Often you can fly from Boston to LaGuardia for less than the train. High fares on the east coast routes subsidize those cheap cross country "named" trains.
Thanks, but federal and state tax dollars are also a major subsidy source (especially on the Empire Builder which is one of the main sources of tourists for Idaho/Wyoming/etc.).
> Pro tip: Never buy a ticket on a named train i.e. "Empire Builder", "Vermonter" when just trying to get between cities - they are frequently many hours late.
You're right, but they've been getting better. Especially since winter, when the weather wreaked havoc on the system. See http://www.trainweb.org/capt/AmtrakMapsForward.html for "real time" calculated location of the trains and how late they are.
> Oh, and that Verizon wireless commercial that shows a guy spotting a good looking girl already on a train and he quickly changes his ticket using his smart phone; that can't be done, not even with a voice call. To change an Amtrak ticket you have to physically take the ticket to a ticket window.
I've changed tickets several times over the phone and online. They ask you to go to the counter to verify ID, but if you swipe your card at the FasTrak station you can get the new ticket printed just fine.
> Just about every time I take Amtrak I get pissed-off by the high cost and indifferent service.
I've had the exact opposite experience. On the Empire Builder, the staff is always courteous (even to unruly passengers) and is genuinely interested in the wellbeing of the passengers. I've made friends with some of the workers at the smaller Amtrak stations along the EB route -- they make for great conversation when you're waiting for the train.
Thanks, but federal and state tax dollars are also a major subsidy source (especially on the Empire Builder which is one of the main sources of tourists for Idaho/Wyoming/etc.).
> Pro tip: Never buy a ticket on a named train i.e. "Empire Builder", "Vermonter" when just trying to get between cities - they are frequently many hours late.
You're right, but they've been getting better. Especially since winter, when the weather wreaked havoc on the system. See http://www.trainweb.org/capt/AmtrakMapsForward.html for "real time" calculated location of the trains and how late they are.
> Oh, and that Verizon wireless commercial that shows a guy spotting a good looking girl already on a train and he quickly changes his ticket using his smart phone; that can't be done, not even with a voice call. To change an Amtrak ticket you have to physically take the ticket to a ticket window.
I've changed tickets several times over the phone and online. They ask you to go to the counter to verify ID, but if you swipe your card at the FasTrak station you can get the new ticket printed just fine.
> Just about every time I take Amtrak I get pissed-off by the high cost and indifferent service.
I've had the exact opposite experience. On the Empire Builder, the staff is always courteous (even to unruly passengers) and is genuinely interested in the wellbeing of the passengers. I've made friends with some of the workers at the smaller Amtrak stations along the EB route -- they make for great conversation when you're waiting for the train.
I've found the public-transit comparison decidedly more mixed than a clear "SF wins". Admittedly, I lived in midtown in Atlanta, and mostly went to other places that have good subway service: Decatur, downtown, Buckhead, the airport, etc. To get to other places, the buses are kind of lame, but I wouldn't say they're any more lame than Muni's terrible buses. I did have a car, but I rarely drove; probably once every few weeks, mostly to visit friends who lived in the suburbs. In SF, meanwhile, the city is geographically tiny and yet still somehow cannot run a decent public-transit system. I can jog from the Richmond or Sunset to Caltrain faster than Muni can get me there.
I will say that the Bay Area as a whole does suburban commuter rail better, because of BART and Caltrain. MARTA has a little of it, but it doesn't extend nearly as far outside the urban core as BART and Caltrain do. Though do note that if you plan to visit the Valley, there are plenty of places that aren't that easy to get to via Caltrain.
I will say that the Bay Area as a whole does suburban commuter rail better, because of BART and Caltrain. MARTA has a little of it, but it doesn't extend nearly as far outside the urban core as BART and Caltrain do. Though do note that if you plan to visit the Valley, there are plenty of places that aren't that easy to get to via Caltrain.
I would say the main deficiency with MARTA's buses is frequency, not the number of options. MUNI's buses run way more frequently I've found when visiting SF.
Exactly. MUNI (SF's bus service) is by many measures irresponsible, incompetent, and corrupt. It even runs a late a lot.
But the density of the city simply creates such a high frequency of buses, and coverage of routes, that it results in a very practical, pragmatic service to use.
Even really well off people often don't have cars in SF just because having a car is more of a hassle than taking the bus/BART/extremely occasional cab.
We know from Paul's blog (awesome blog, Paul!) that he really likes cars. When even he is thinking of ditching it, it says a lot about the service.
Sidebar: I currently live in Portland, which has an award-winning bus/rail service. And it is true, it's awesome. The drivers are polite, and often really care about urban planning/civic stuff. The buses are clean, the documentation/data/maps/API well-done.
But because Portland is so much less dense than SF, it still means that in many cases, taking a bus here is more of a drag, and cars more common. (On a personal note, I've gotten way more into biking since moving here from SF.)
Sidebar: I currently live in Portland, which has an award-winning bus/rail service. And it is true, it's awesome. The drivers are polite, and often really care about urban planning/civic stuff. The buses are clean, the documentation/data/maps/API well-done.
But because Portland is so much less dense than SF, it still means that in many cases, taking a bus here is more of a drag, and cars more common. (On a personal note, I've gotten way more into biking since moving here from SF.)
There's Cobb County Transit, too. I was in Atlanta last weekend, staying near the Cumberland Mall while going to a conference in Midtown, and didn't know about Cobb County Transit until I saw a bus. It wasn't on GMaps, while MARTA was. Now I know that when I visit a city I haven't been to, I ought to check more than just GMaps.
Of course, that wasn't the only mistake I made while planning. If I'd booked my hotel sooner, I could have got a nice place, within walking distance to the conference, at a reasonable price.
I like this article because it reminds me that planning can be fun, isn't really that hard, and can help a great deal. It sounds like Stammy got a much nicer place than he would have if he didn't reply to new listings. It was also smart to get in-building laundry. My current place in Boulder has me going to the laundromat, and it's much more of a distraction than I thought it would be, even if I pay them to do my laundry. It makes me take my car on days when I'd much rather be on foot or on a bike.
...and I concur about grocery stores being important. Boulder has three stores I like to frequent really close to each other: Whole Foods, Vitamin Cottage, and Sunflower Market. Each has their strong points. Whole Foods has everything and a great salad bar and deli; Vitamin Cottage has only organic produce, with better prices than Whole Foods, and Sunflower often has the best prices town on both organic and non-organic produce.
Of course, that wasn't the only mistake I made while planning. If I'd booked my hotel sooner, I could have got a nice place, within walking distance to the conference, at a reasonable price.
I like this article because it reminds me that planning can be fun, isn't really that hard, and can help a great deal. It sounds like Stammy got a much nicer place than he would have if he didn't reply to new listings. It was also smart to get in-building laundry. My current place in Boulder has me going to the laundromat, and it's much more of a distraction than I thought it would be, even if I pay them to do my laundry. It makes me take my car on days when I'd much rather be on foot or on a bike.
...and I concur about grocery stores being important. Boulder has three stores I like to frequent really close to each other: Whole Foods, Vitamin Cottage, and Sunflower Market. Each has their strong points. Whole Foods has everything and a great salad bar and deli; Vitamin Cottage has only organic produce, with better prices than Whole Foods, and Sunflower often has the best prices town on both organic and non-organic produce.
Nice.
I moved out to SF 6 months ago from upstate NY. Rent is expensive, but my girlfriend and got an apartment for $1,200/month, 1 bedroom, 1 livingroom/kitchen, 1 bath. And there's an L stop right out front of our door... though, it does take 20 minutes to get downtown on it, we're in the sunset.
I got rid of a lot of stuff while moving too. It's better that way. I recommend that to everybody who's moving: stuff is expensive not valuable, just get rid of it, buy new stuff at Ikea (1 futon bed, 2 dressers, 1 table, 2 bedside tables plus lamps, all for just over $1,000).
Since we flew out here (I sold my car, she had hers shipped out here) I'd say we spent under $5,000 on the move.
It's totally awesome out here. Worth every penny!
I moved out to SF 6 months ago from upstate NY. Rent is expensive, but my girlfriend and got an apartment for $1,200/month, 1 bedroom, 1 livingroom/kitchen, 1 bath. And there's an L stop right out front of our door... though, it does take 20 minutes to get downtown on it, we're in the sunset.
I got rid of a lot of stuff while moving too. It's better that way. I recommend that to everybody who's moving: stuff is expensive not valuable, just get rid of it, buy new stuff at Ikea (1 futon bed, 2 dressers, 1 table, 2 bedside tables plus lamps, all for just over $1,000).
Since we flew out here (I sold my car, she had hers shipped out here) I'd say we spent under $5,000 on the move.
It's totally awesome out here. Worth every penny!
I couldn't give away my dog :(
I moved to Seattle with my dog, from Indiana.
She's anything but a city dog, and I think the next time I drive home, she'll be coming with me; I'll give her to a friend or my sister.
As dog-friendly as Seattle is, there are definitely dogs that can't do the city.
It was a hard choice to make. :-/ But she'll be much better off with someone at home more often, with a backyard and a more active lifestyle/running with her. She was mainly black lab with some chow and pitbull so I took her to the dog park for a good 90 minutes every other day to keep her energy levels in check and not destroy the apartment too much haha.
We've got three of them in the isocket office - you're welcome to visit and get your dog fix anytime. Especially if you stop by after our product launch this week so we can do another usability testing session. It's come a long way since you saw it last :)
One thing I considered was living in San Mateo or even Mountain View where you can rent a room in a house with a yard and keep your dog. If you must be in SF, then find a roommate and rent a townhouse with a yard in Potrero Hill.
All easier said than done, but I could never leave my dog.
Good luck!
All easier said than done, but I could never leave my dog.
Good luck!
If you have a driving partner, I would recommend a cross-country driving trip to everyone. A few months ago I moved from Charlottesville, VA out to the Bay Area. I stopped in Memphis, Amarillo, Phoenix, LA and drove up highway 101 from there. It's a weird feeling to describe, but driving across the entire country almost gives you a renewed sense of patriotism.
Oh yeah almost forgot... drive the speed limit in Texas.
Oh yeah almost forgot... drive the speed limit in Texas.
I moved from Atlanta (I'm also a tech grad) to SF as well. I had to move back down to the south bay where it was at warm at least once a year. Since I landed a job before I went, they paid for the move, which in retrospect was a bad decision because I just ended up moving everything instead of selling/trashing the stuff I rarely use.
I was happy to read this post as I am moving to SF on June 26. And it sounds like we roughly had the same budgeting done, except I plan to live with roommates so that will save me some money.
Renting a place off AirBnB for a week while I find a place with roommates. Got rid of almost all of my possessions except for essential computers, clothes, and books. Shipping the computers and clothes that I can't take with me on the flight. Storing the books until I feel like i live in a somewhat permanent place and want them shipped out.
I can't wait to not have a car. Shipping my bike out as soon as I get a place. Going to have a TransLink Muni/Bart pass and a ZipCar card on me as soon as I hit the ground. Plan on using the ZipCar for those rare instances when I need a car/truck. Like my maiden voyage to Ikea for a desk, bed, and maiden Trader Joes grocery trip.
Renting a place off AirBnB for a week while I find a place with roommates. Got rid of almost all of my possessions except for essential computers, clothes, and books. Shipping the computers and clothes that I can't take with me on the flight. Storing the books until I feel like i live in a somewhat permanent place and want them shipped out.
I can't wait to not have a car. Shipping my bike out as soon as I get a place. Going to have a TransLink Muni/Bart pass and a ZipCar card on me as soon as I hit the ground. Plan on using the ZipCar for those rare instances when I need a car/truck. Like my maiden voyage to Ikea for a desk, bed, and maiden Trader Joes grocery trip.
I just made this same move a couple months ago. I got a job out here. So my girlfriend and I sold most everything, including my car and drove over with 2 cats. While I can't recommend driving across the country with two cats, I can say that I am glad we got rid of everything. Purging yourself of all your things and starting over is an interesting experience. I have never been one to acquire lots of stuff but I had my share. Getting rid of it all helps you realize how small you can live and still be happy.
How I did it (starting January 2008):
- Drove from Atlanta to Long Beach with dog in back seat.
- Rented room in Long Beach for three months (found on craigslist).
- Found it wasn't working with Long Beach co-founder.
- Drove to San Jose and stayed with friend for three months.
- Realized startup wasn't working. Got job. Got apartment.
- Still in San Jose needing to jumpstart a startup.
I'm doing this in a week, actually. And I'll be couchsurfing for the forseeable future, living out of my backpack. I can't wait. Road trip and then SF!
This post was extremely valuable for me. Thanks.
This post was extremely valuable for me. Thanks.
Have you checked out Noisebridge yet?
I haven't - this is something I'll have to do considering they are in the Mission too! Thanks
Kudos on the move. How's skribit doing btw?
For example, if I move now, I'd focus on food (supermarkets, restaurants) and transport, and once I have understood, I'd be basically comfortable already, and I'd just let the gaps like neighbourhood and so on fill themselves out automatically.
It's a bit sad in a way - that sense of seeing something new and unexpected is now lost to me. All my recent travels are just a variation on something I've seen before, even if to supposedly exotic places.