The enormous problems with using the war on terror as the basis for gun control(vox.com)
vox.com
The enormous problems with using the war on terror as the basis for gun control
http://www.vox.com/2016/6/20/11953254/guns-terror-watch-list
10 comments
From the article: "The reason is simple: If you give the government more power to ban terrorists from having guns, you’re reinforcing the power it has to define who counts as a terrorist.
That power is something of which both many liberals and many conservatives are deeply skeptical."
I for one am happy that the discussion is including this attitude. While obviously mass shootings are a tragedy we should address, I'm also conscious that U.S. has made a few steps towards a totalitarian/police state that are pretty scary. There may not be any easy solutions to gun violence, but "rushing to give government more anti-terror laws" seems like the cure is worse than the disease, by a _lot_, and it seems like at least some politicians agree..
That power is something of which both many liberals and many conservatives are deeply skeptical."
I for one am happy that the discussion is including this attitude. While obviously mass shootings are a tragedy we should address, I'm also conscious that U.S. has made a few steps towards a totalitarian/police state that are pretty scary. There may not be any easy solutions to gun violence, but "rushing to give government more anti-terror laws" seems like the cure is worse than the disease, by a _lot_, and it seems like at least some politicians agree..
It's perfectly reasonable for the security services of any country to identify potential bad guys. It's reasonable for the potential bad guys to face extra scrutiny. It's perfectly fine for the NSA or FBI or whoever to say (internally) "Here's a list of people we think are behaving suspiciously. Let's keep an eye on them."
But it is not reasonable to deny someone rights, any rights, because they've been identified as subjects of extra scrutiny. We already have a system through which people are denied rights based on things they've done. It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot more perfect than a list which a) isn't public knowledge, b) has no official procedure for adding people and c) has no procedure for appealing your inclusion.
Beyond that, this particular list is a list of names, not a list of identities. Lord help you if you share a name with somebody who is behaving a little suspiciously. There must be many thousands of people named, for example, Mohammed al-Masri, or John Smith, or Pablo Gonzalez, or Amit Patel. Supposedly Ted Kennedy ended up on the list because he shared a name with someone they were watching.
But it is not reasonable to deny someone rights, any rights, because they've been identified as subjects of extra scrutiny. We already have a system through which people are denied rights based on things they've done. It's not perfect, but it's a hell of a lot more perfect than a list which a) isn't public knowledge, b) has no official procedure for adding people and c) has no procedure for appealing your inclusion.
Beyond that, this particular list is a list of names, not a list of identities. Lord help you if you share a name with somebody who is behaving a little suspiciously. There must be many thousands of people named, for example, Mohammed al-Masri, or John Smith, or Pablo Gonzalez, or Amit Patel. Supposedly Ted Kennedy ended up on the list because he shared a name with someone they were watching.
Funny how the republicans handed the democrats two gun control measures, and they turned them down.
[deleted]
"The greater the diversity in a community, the fewer people vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects; In the most diverse communities, neighbours trust one another about half as much as they do in the most homogeneous settings."
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/t...
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/t...
hackney(1)
If you're on the terror list, or the no fly list, there is no trial, you're simply deprived of some rights you used to have, with no recourse. I've had to deal with the DMV, and you get sent to many confusing places and have to spend many hours trying to extricate yourself from them.
With gun control, it's the same thing. "The list is a state secret". They won't tell you how you got on it, and won't tell you how to get off, and there's no due process where you can plead your case in court.
The fact that you have to fight a Kafka-esque bureau to acquit yourself of something you've never been convicted of should raise the hackles of everybody involved.