Ask HN: I've made a huge mistake; working in tech is killing me
16 comments
> However, voicing these concerns will get eye rolling at best.
It's because most people intuitively understand that while a few of the concerns your express could be legitimate, a vast majority of them are histrionics peddled by media in order to sell page views. Hence, a candidate solution to your conundrum: stop watching/reading news.
It's because most people intuitively understand that while a few of the concerns your express could be legitimate, a vast majority of them are histrionics peddled by media in order to sell page views. Hence, a candidate solution to your conundrum: stop watching/reading news.
While this may actually sound patronizing, it's correct. Agonizing over these things is not a result of some profound grasp of reality and the ultimate causes for XYZ problems that have been around (i.e., the bell curve of ethical behavior as expressed in human beings at present). If you really wanted to pursue tech, you'd be a positive force in it rather than trying to pigeonhole tech/software for ever-present human foibles. It would make more sense to be a part of the evolution of technology. In any case, if things were so bad due to software, I'd simply point out that working in society generally could easily be pinpointed as promoting certain values which will have deleterious effects (in addition to the positive ones).
TL;DR. Needless hand-waving at best.
On the other hand, if it is really "killing" you, you might want to try pinpointing legitimate reasons for why you believe that is so. Or don't and just start from scratch in a new venture in the military or a nondescript job.
TL;DR. Needless hand-waving at best.
On the other hand, if it is really "killing" you, you might want to try pinpointing legitimate reasons for why you believe that is so. Or don't and just start from scratch in a new venture in the military or a nondescript job.
> Agonizing over these things is not a result of some profound grasp of reality and the ultimate causes for XYZ problems that have been around
Since most problems are solved by first recognizing a problem exists, why is the OP's grasp not profound or accurate?
> If you really wanted to pursue tech, you'd be a positive force in it rather than trying to pigeonhole tech/software for ever-present human foibles. It would make more sense to be a part of the evolution of technology
Unfortunately, being a positive force doesn't always change the direction of things if the momentum and direction is toward a wall or cliff.
I'm not anti-tech, but certainly appreciate what the OP has observed.
Since most problems are solved by first recognizing a problem exists, why is the OP's grasp not profound or accurate?
> If you really wanted to pursue tech, you'd be a positive force in it rather than trying to pigeonhole tech/software for ever-present human foibles. It would make more sense to be a part of the evolution of technology
Unfortunately, being a positive force doesn't always change the direction of things if the momentum and direction is toward a wall or cliff.
I'm not anti-tech, but certainly appreciate what the OP has observed.
>why is the OP's grasp not profound or accurate?
As already pointed out, but perhaps not so clearly, it is neither profound nor accurate due to misattribution. The OP attributes faults of human beings and their actions to software and tech, when software and tech are clearly not necessarily at fault for such, even if they might be found to facilitate those behaviors.
> I'm not anti-tech, but certainly appreciate what the OP has observed.
I'm glad you can appreciate it, but I'm still at a loss how anything of this kind can make much sense beyond a debilitating neuro-degenerative disorder. The OP would be better of seeking remedial assistance through technologies like trans-cranial direct current stimulation.
As already pointed out, but perhaps not so clearly, it is neither profound nor accurate due to misattribution. The OP attributes faults of human beings and their actions to software and tech, when software and tech are clearly not necessarily at fault for such, even if they might be found to facilitate those behaviors.
> I'm not anti-tech, but certainly appreciate what the OP has observed.
I'm glad you can appreciate it, but I'm still at a loss how anything of this kind can make much sense beyond a debilitating neuro-degenerative disorder. The OP would be better of seeking remedial assistance through technologies like trans-cranial direct current stimulation.
Thank you for clarifying the first point. Agreed, the fundamental problem exists beyond tech and software. I guess coming to grips with that lets us use tech as a means to an end - a tool - that can be beneficial. The fact that we're discussing it on this medium shows that software and tech can be positive. The OP probably is looking at the general trend and state of problems tied to flaws in us as humans and other macro influences.
I'm sure that a solution exists that might be even simpler than tDCS. A walk through the woods always helps me ;)
I'm sure that a solution exists that might be even simpler than tDCS. A walk through the woods always helps me ;)
Personally, I believe the OP has valid concerns. "News" is not the culprit and blocking it is really not a long term viable solution since we will always be surrounded and impacted by the mindset and decisions of those driving tech.
> There is this implicit belief in progress, in particular that tech represents some inherent advancement for the human race.
Reminds me of the Hemingway quote:
“Never mistake motion for action.”
Too often, "progress" suffers from a lack of a moral compass. Quarterly goals push for measurable goals too often linked to short term monetary rewards over what's of real value to humanity.
gottagetaway - you have great observations, but tech is probably just a part of a bigger systemic problem.
Don't let anyone demean your feelings or take on what you've observed.
> There is this implicit belief in progress, in particular that tech represents some inherent advancement for the human race.
Reminds me of the Hemingway quote:
“Never mistake motion for action.”
Too often, "progress" suffers from a lack of a moral compass. Quarterly goals push for measurable goals too often linked to short term monetary rewards over what's of real value to humanity.
gottagetaway - you have great observations, but tech is probably just a part of a bigger systemic problem.
Don't let anyone demean your feelings or take on what you've observed.
The problem is that people only want the positive issues and don't want to focus on negative issues. It is the way society in the USA has developed.
You raise some points about negative issues nobody wants to talk about. They just ignore them and hope they go away.
Some people do care about negative issues and instead of complaining about them they try to find a solution to the problems.
I have in the past complained about negative issues, but it got me nowhere. People just don't want to hear the negative things and problems, they want to hear solutions and other ways of doing things.
Don't discount yourself, you have at least some skills you picked up working in Silicon Valley. For one you can use a computer, for second you can write with a computer, for third you most likely know something about programming or technical skills about a computer.
There are a lot of people who don't have the skills you have and they have gotten jobs working with a computer. I used to be in an IT department as a programmer/analyst but I also trained the non-IT employees in how to use a computer and the programs I wrote.
If you just have skills in using a computer, which you obviously have, you should be able to get a job in a Non-IT career. You already know how to use a computer, so don't feel down because there are a lot of people who don't know or can't use a computer.
Just list your IT job and what skills you learned.
The most important skills are social skills and people skills, without that you can't hold a job.
You can find another job, and you can go to any state or city you want to go to for a job. It won't pay as much as a SV job, but in other places the economy is better and doesn't have high costing rent and housing.
You raise some points about negative issues nobody wants to talk about. They just ignore them and hope they go away.
Some people do care about negative issues and instead of complaining about them they try to find a solution to the problems.
I have in the past complained about negative issues, but it got me nowhere. People just don't want to hear the negative things and problems, they want to hear solutions and other ways of doing things.
Don't discount yourself, you have at least some skills you picked up working in Silicon Valley. For one you can use a computer, for second you can write with a computer, for third you most likely know something about programming or technical skills about a computer.
There are a lot of people who don't have the skills you have and they have gotten jobs working with a computer. I used to be in an IT department as a programmer/analyst but I also trained the non-IT employees in how to use a computer and the programs I wrote.
If you just have skills in using a computer, which you obviously have, you should be able to get a job in a Non-IT career. You already know how to use a computer, so don't feel down because there are a lot of people who don't know or can't use a computer.
Just list your IT job and what skills you learned.
The most important skills are social skills and people skills, without that you can't hold a job.
You can find another job, and you can go to any state or city you want to go to for a job. It won't pay as much as a SV job, but in other places the economy is better and doesn't have high costing rent and housing.
Were I to leave my job, I have nothing on my resume that could get me hired in another industry
You don't say what it is you do as a "tech worker", but regardless, whatever it is there are similar positions doing it outside of the tech industry. Every industry employs developers, support, project managers, product managers, admin, etc. And here's a little known fact: the majority of those industries not only pay better than the average outside of the valley, but the jobs are less stressful and less filled with 'tech bro' idiots.
My advice would be to get in touch with a recruitment agent who specialises in an industry that isn't tech.
You don't say what it is you do as a "tech worker", but regardless, whatever it is there are similar positions doing it outside of the tech industry. Every industry employs developers, support, project managers, product managers, admin, etc. And here's a little known fact: the majority of those industries not only pay better than the average outside of the valley, but the jobs are less stressful and less filled with 'tech bro' idiots.
My advice would be to get in touch with a recruitment agent who specialises in an industry that isn't tech.
"The future makes me physically panic" - me too long time ago m8, I'm glad I m not alone with this when I have read ur post. I have been thinking there is something wrong me..
The only twist between us is that I'm unable to get into the tech industry ' cos lack of relevant experience and age.
"I have nothing on my resume that could get me hired in another industry." - "How can I escape?" All I can suggest you is, think about what would u like to do what are you good at in, create some reference in that industry with domains and make some international experience also therefore you are able to reply for the reference check. After that sell yourself on the interview. Non tech industries are not that smart as whom works in IT. I know that because unfortunately thats how how I operate to survive this life.
sorry for the bad english, thats my third language.
"I have nothing on my resume that could get me hired in another industry." - "How can I escape?" All I can suggest you is, think about what would u like to do what are you good at in, create some reference in that industry with domains and make some international experience also therefore you are able to reply for the reference check. After that sell yourself on the interview. Non tech industries are not that smart as whom works in IT. I know that because unfortunately thats how how I operate to survive this life.
sorry for the bad english, thats my third language.
You and OP are not alone I'm with You :) Take a time and read about burnout: what is that, reasons of that and what to do. (There is a plenty of sciencific papers about this) It's really a killer! I have it 2 times in 6 months at one workplace, before I managed to leave.
I'm feeling kinda better now, but this feeling of panic will never completely leave me.
I'm feeling kinda better now, but this feeling of panic will never completely leave me.
The tech industry is more than the "startup world" and SF. For every developer working at an Uber there's thousands more working at normal companies, working normal hours, and living in places where they are happy, not where the hype cycle tells them they should.
Also, your resume is better than you think. Most jobs don't require you to be a ninja. I didn't get a degree and have been a developer since 1998, with healthy earnings despite at times using uncool languages (spent most of my career doing ColdFusion) and outside of the startup world (Dallas and Houston). My current life is great, though boring to those in your typical VC-funded party (I write software that helps hold UPS and Fedex accountable to their guarantees); however, if I had to, I could easily freelance and earn and above-average income.
tl;dr The tech industry is more than the startup and SF world, and you can be happy working in tech elsewhere. Optimize for happiness, and don't let others pick your priorities.
Also, your resume is better than you think. Most jobs don't require you to be a ninja. I didn't get a degree and have been a developer since 1998, with healthy earnings despite at times using uncool languages (spent most of my career doing ColdFusion) and outside of the startup world (Dallas and Houston). My current life is great, though boring to those in your typical VC-funded party (I write software that helps hold UPS and Fedex accountable to their guarantees); however, if I had to, I could easily freelance and earn and above-average income.
tl;dr The tech industry is more than the startup and SF world, and you can be happy working in tech elsewhere. Optimize for happiness, and don't let others pick your priorities.
I attended an event in SF about the mistreatment of non-technical employees at tech companies, and how tech people can become allies. For example, security guards in tech companies are not unionized, and many workers had experiences with their employers "forgetting" their pay, or asking them to come in overtime with very little advance notice.
There is also grassroots activism of all kinds in San Francisco, including protest against Uber for exploiting their workers under the guise of "the sharing economy", or protest of Airbnb for raising already exorbitant housing prices. You might have to look beyond the tech community to find these events, but your position on the inside gives you some unique opportunities to help. Best of luck.
There is also grassroots activism of all kinds in San Francisco, including protest against Uber for exploiting their workers under the guise of "the sharing economy", or protest of Airbnb for raising already exorbitant housing prices. You might have to look beyond the tech community to find these events, but your position on the inside gives you some unique opportunities to help. Best of luck.
For example, http://meetu.ps/e/BwlPx/nLH2C/d
You have transferable skills. You can learn the rest.
Start saving, and saving hard.
Start re-training for some other industry.
Once you've got your new qualifications or whatever create a skills based resume[1].
Come up with some reason why you wanted to change industry. Make it positive.
The start applying for as many jobs within your chosen new industry as possible.
Or you could stick with your current job, but reduce the hours and use the extra time for charitable work.
Start saving, and saving hard.
Start re-training for some other industry.
Once you've got your new qualifications or whatever create a skills based resume[1].
Come up with some reason why you wanted to change industry. Make it positive.
The start applying for as many jobs within your chosen new industry as possible.
Or you could stick with your current job, but reduce the hours and use the extra time for charitable work.
You could start at the bottom and do some manual labour with your hands.
Alternatively, you could save up some cash and invest in a small mom-and-pop style business. You will never compete with the capitalism-machine of Amazon/Walmart, but I believe small, side-stores will always exist, simply because they bring that personalization that big stores can't.
You probably won't "change the world" or mask your amassing of wealth to billionaire status with your "$1 salary", but maybe that will make you happy.
Being your own boss can be hugely gratifying and you can probably help the 4-6 families of the workers who work with/for you live decent lives as well.
People will eye-roll you, cause you described the valley as Mordor, but the grass isn't always greener. The snow-sweeper in Chicago would trade that shitty weather and job for the free food and good weather the GooFaces offer.
Alternatively, you could save up some cash and invest in a small mom-and-pop style business. You will never compete with the capitalism-machine of Amazon/Walmart, but I believe small, side-stores will always exist, simply because they bring that personalization that big stores can't.
You probably won't "change the world" or mask your amassing of wealth to billionaire status with your "$1 salary", but maybe that will make you happy.
Being your own boss can be hugely gratifying and you can probably help the 4-6 families of the workers who work with/for you live decent lives as well.
People will eye-roll you, cause you described the valley as Mordor, but the grass isn't always greener. The snow-sweeper in Chicago would trade that shitty weather and job for the free food and good weather the GooFaces offer.
There is potentially some bad tech out there, nuclear weapons and man made virii. But the tech being uber isn't evil or bad. Some of the people that use that tech is bad, and uber the company seems to be bad. But there are a lot of people and companies out there that are bad that have nothing to do with "tech"
Perhaps you should join an established company, out find a company that is doing something you like. There are plenty of people out there that want to solve problems. Go find them.
Go work in tech at a bank, regional bank. Its slower paced, no magpies chasing shiny new stuff. 35h/week, mandatory vacation and good pay.
I'd go back but my startup is now profitable.
I'd go back but my startup is now profitable.
Let's not confuse Silicon Valley startups with the entire tech industry. You might want to try working at a company that just tries to make a profit solving everyday business problems rather than "changing the world" or "disrupting the X industry".
Also, there are lots of jobs for tech people outside the tech industry (many more than in the tech industry). Any big business is a huge user of technology - think of how much software it takes to run a big bank.
Also, there are lots of jobs for tech people outside the tech industry (many more than in the tech industry). Any big business is a huge user of technology - think of how much software it takes to run a big bank.
Move to Columbus, OH. Low cost of living. Nice down to earth Midwestern people. You can continue in tech if you want without the silicon valley madness. If you don't want to do that there's plenty of other stuff going on. Sounds horrible. Sounds worlds different from the tech work I do. In Columbus, OH.
Seriously, when you remove all the stress and mania of silicon valley I think you'll be feeling much better.
Seriously, when you remove all the stress and mania of silicon valley I think you'll be feeling much better.
Silicon Valley is its own kind of bizarre, soul-killing bubble. Stay in the industry, but move somewhere where humanitarian values are prized. Portland or Seattle sound like much better fits for you.
How about joining NGO that you think it really makes the world better? Like Wikimedia / Mozilla?
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I never graduated college. It was simply unnecessary for my getting a job. At my current startup, I am surrounded by people interested in "shiny" new technologies or experiences rather than solving problems well and going home to enjoy those experiences. At first I thought my dysphoria was related to this culture fit, but I'm realizing the underlying problems are endemic: I think the tech industry is actively misanthropic. There is this implicit belief in progress, in particular that tech represents some inherent advancement for the human race. To some extent I agree; however, for every positive thing tech enables (e.g. space exploration), there are hundreds destroying people's lives: think Uber rapes, Uber's bait-and-switch driver policy (have a loan! Oh we're paying you less next month, btw. Hey you got that loan payment?), industrial food production, global warming, resource exhaustion, increased work hours, increased mental illness, the illusion of enjoyment via Facebook, Twitter, blogs, etc; I enjoy some of the content, but most of it is wasting my time and making me miserable. I now consider smartphones as a whole to be a mistake and an epidemic of addiction as bad as any drug. Clearly, I do not belong in silicon valley; SF feels like Mordor if Sauron peddled crack mansions. The future makes me physically panic.
However, voicing these concerns will get eye rolling at best. At worst, it is taboo and people start looking for exit signs. Were I to leave my job, I have nothing on my resume that could get me hired in another industry. I have no other goals in my life, career-wise, and I am painfully aware that software is eating the world. How can I escape?