Turn $5 steak to $50 steak with salt(steamykitchen.com)
steamykitchen.com
Turn $5 steak to $50 steak with salt
http://steamykitchen.com/163-how-to-turn-cheap-choice-steaks-into-gucci-prime-steaks.html
143 comments
I don't know why you guys keep pushing Auber controllers, most professionals use SousVideMagic controllers and now the people at Fresh Meals Solutions have the latest 1500D with better accuracy and many safety features. Free shipping too!
I tried this about a year ago. It works pretty well. It's not a complete substitute for a great cut of steak but it's a good way to save money on meat.
Stupid question: does this work with chicken? I tend to prefer the white meat.
The article says one of her influences was a chef that did this with chicken.
http://www.nytimes.com/1982/07/07/garden/getting-the-most-ou...
This works really well with fish too. My favorite catalonian restaurant cooks its fish on a slab of salt, with excellent results.
This works really well with fish too. My favorite catalonian restaurant cooks its fish on a slab of salt, with excellent results.
I'm having steak this weekend, will have to try this out. Educational and tasty (hopefully)!
Let us know how it turns out!
It turned out well! I didn't make a control sample, but both my girlfriend and I enjoyed it (for both steaks last night, and steak burritos today for lunch). As the author suggested, we also added garlic and rosemary to the salting process.
I'm kinda new to cooking steaks, so I don't have a lot of experience to measure this against, but I think I will do this again next time.
I'm kinda new to cooking steaks, so I don't have a lot of experience to measure this against, but I think I will do this again next time.
I tried this once -- it was very salty, which I don't mind, but it was nothing special as far as tenderness.
Seconded. I salted a one-inch-thick steak about an hour ahead of grill time, with a rinse and pat-dry just before grilling. It still tasted too salty. Furthermore, even with 5-10 minutes' rest time after grilling, the steak still lost too much juice upon cutting.
This method works: Preheat grill to 500 deg F. Lightly salt and pepper the steak just before grilling. Grill for 4 minutes per side per inch of thickness. Remove, call the guests in, and serve. Yum.
This method works: Preheat grill to 500 deg F. Lightly salt and pepper the steak just before grilling. Grill for 4 minutes per side per inch of thickness. Remove, call the guests in, and serve. Yum.
You missed a step.
Remove, [let rest for 5 minutes], call the guests in...
Remove, [let rest for 5 minutes], call the guests in...
Understood. But by the time the guests are in, it has probably rested for 5 minutes already. Any more than that, and the steak will have cooled off too much. Hey, that's the way it works for me.
I've tried this a couple of times. It's nothing special. Your better off finding locally sourced fresh meat - it's usually as cheap and you will be able to find one you like.
(also, incidentally, I'd say a good steak is as much about taste as texture. This sorta sacrifices one for the other)
(also, incidentally, I'd say a good steak is as much about taste as texture. This sorta sacrifices one for the other)
You're right on about taste vs texture. Often times the tenderness/texture is inversely proportional to the flavor in steaks. Which is why you see many menus placing something like blue cheese on top of beef tenderloin.
However, the "freshness" of beef is in interesting topic. When a cow is slaughtered it is bled and hung in a cooler for about a week. At this point it is usually cut up into primal cuts or sub-primal cuts, sealed in cryovac and sent to the store. At wholesale clubs you can usually buy these whole sub-primals in cryovac. In a normal store the "butcher's" simply cut up the sub-primals into normal size and sell them. The people who work the meat counter in the typical store are simply meat cutters and no longer butchers in the true sense.
Some restaurants keep their meat in the cryovac for extended periods of time and they call this "aging" which is technically called "wet aging". And vastly inferior to dry aging. Dry aging is simply leaving a sub-primal in a temperature appropriate room for an extended period to allow bacteria to break down the meat and moisture to evaporate, thus increasing flavor.
Freshness in terms of beef really means "never frozen". If you freeze beef (or any protein really) then ice crystals form and cause damage to the cellular structure of the meat. This means that juices from the meat will simply exit the meat and never return, no matter how long your rest the meat after cooking.
However, the "freshness" of beef is in interesting topic. When a cow is slaughtered it is bled and hung in a cooler for about a week. At this point it is usually cut up into primal cuts or sub-primal cuts, sealed in cryovac and sent to the store. At wholesale clubs you can usually buy these whole sub-primals in cryovac. In a normal store the "butcher's" simply cut up the sub-primals into normal size and sell them. The people who work the meat counter in the typical store are simply meat cutters and no longer butchers in the true sense.
Some restaurants keep their meat in the cryovac for extended periods of time and they call this "aging" which is technically called "wet aging". And vastly inferior to dry aging. Dry aging is simply leaving a sub-primal in a temperature appropriate room for an extended period to allow bacteria to break down the meat and moisture to evaporate, thus increasing flavor.
Freshness in terms of beef really means "never frozen". If you freeze beef (or any protein really) then ice crystals form and cause damage to the cellular structure of the meat. This means that juices from the meat will simply exit the meat and never return, no matter how long your rest the meat after cooking.
What good does local sourcing do? Is it freshness? I'm not a meat expert, but I would guess that a big company with an economy of scale would be able to produce higher quality meat for a lower cost. Also, if you're sourcing locally from non-big brand names, don't you have concerns about their cold chain?
You'd think so. But I have found you get better quality for very little premium. And even the cheap stuff is better than supermarket schmuck.
My aunt rears poultry for several markets. Her supermarket produce is usually additionally processed in a variety of ways by an intermediate to increase it's sale value (with poultry it is usually water plumped).
It might take a while but there is sure to be a local butcher or farm shop nearby where you can buy more directly.
Edit: also I personally don't think meat is a Market that benefits from economy of scale :-) I usually find supermarkets a false economy.
My aunt rears poultry for several markets. Her supermarket produce is usually additionally processed in a variety of ways by an intermediate to increase it's sale value (with poultry it is usually water plumped).
It might take a while but there is sure to be a local butcher or farm shop nearby where you can buy more directly.
Edit: also I personally don't think meat is a Market that benefits from economy of scale :-) I usually find supermarkets a false economy.
I had no idea about plumping. Do you know what percent of the revenue her supermarkets take?
Not sure but it's a fair whack. She makes a little more on direct & local sales but mostly that is because she also gets some of the retail markup too (which the supermarkets soak up).
EDIT: here is some info on plumping. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/all-we-can-eat/food-politic...
My Aunt's produce isn't modified all that much (because it is marketed as premium and local produce by the supermarket - they buy from numerous small producers in local regions and distribute to that region). However most of the generic chicken you see in stores will be plumped in this way. Im not sure of the exact water content but I recall watching a TV show once about it that suggested 70% water content (including what was already there)
EDIT: here is some info on plumping. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/all-we-can-eat/food-politic...
My Aunt's produce isn't modified all that much (because it is marketed as premium and local produce by the supermarket - they buy from numerous small producers in local regions and distribute to that region). However most of the generic chicken you see in stores will be plumped in this way. Im not sure of the exact water content but I recall watching a TV show once about it that suggested 70% water content (including what was already there)
I don't know the situation elsewhere, but something that surprised me here in the UK is the disclosure requirements. We have a lot of rules on describing ingredients and nutrition in food, some statutory, others widely accepted industrial practices. However, even the statutory rules let food suppliers "forget" certain things, like IIRC up to 10% of added water in meat products. In other words, they can legally say "no added water" with anything up to 10% added, or reduce greater actual amounts accordingly. I'm not sure I see any public interest in that kind of rule, unless it really is an essential part of the production process that literally everyone (including the local butcher with a local supplier competing with the supermarkets) is going to have to do.
The bakeries here usually blend their cheesecakes (which are sold by weight) with flour to boost their margins. This sounds like exactly the same sort of process. I wonder how frequent this is in the food industry.
It's done with bacon, too. This is why you'll find that cheap bacon, when fried, will expel a lot of water, whereas the more expensive stuff won't. This is probably more noticeable on back bacon ("Canadian" bacon) - I can't imagine the fatty parts hold the water for long enough.
Locally sourced meat tends to be grass-fed or at least grass finished. It also tends to have WAY better living conditions than any commercial plant. A happy animal is a tasty animal.
I highly suggest you watch Food inc. :-)
I highly suggest you watch Food inc. :-)
I grew up on a cattle farm. Is 3,000 head a "plant"? Was it evil because there was an "Inc" on the end of the name?
A happy animal is indeed a tasty animal. That's why we raise cattle in dry pens (away from predators) with abundant fresh water and feed them carefully formulated food twice a day. Our cattle get better dietary planning than I do; they don't eat pure corn (as the term "corn-fed" might lead you to believe), they eat a mix including alfalfa, grass hay, corn, barley, silage, cannery surplus apples, oats, molasses, and other ingredients. The fact is, big or small, any cattleman is going to try and keep the conditions as good as possible. If your animals are standing in 2 feet of mud and eating moldy hay, they're not going to produce and you're not going to make money. Also, nobody goes into the livestock business hating the animals--we who grew up on farms probably have a better understanding and empathy for livestock than your average city-dweller, and we want to act kindly toward them.
As for grass feeding, you want to know something? One of the biggest grass-fed beef producers back home only eats corn-fed beef. Corn-fed beef is more extensively marbled and more tender. Like organic produce, grass-fed beef is a niche market for people who think something tastes better because it has a crunchy image and damn the price/scalability/sustainability.
A happy animal is indeed a tasty animal. That's why we raise cattle in dry pens (away from predators) with abundant fresh water and feed them carefully formulated food twice a day. Our cattle get better dietary planning than I do; they don't eat pure corn (as the term "corn-fed" might lead you to believe), they eat a mix including alfalfa, grass hay, corn, barley, silage, cannery surplus apples, oats, molasses, and other ingredients. The fact is, big or small, any cattleman is going to try and keep the conditions as good as possible. If your animals are standing in 2 feet of mud and eating moldy hay, they're not going to produce and you're not going to make money. Also, nobody goes into the livestock business hating the animals--we who grew up on farms probably have a better understanding and empathy for livestock than your average city-dweller, and we want to act kindly toward them.
As for grass feeding, you want to know something? One of the biggest grass-fed beef producers back home only eats corn-fed beef. Corn-fed beef is more extensively marbled and more tender. Like organic produce, grass-fed beef is a niche market for people who think something tastes better because it has a crunchy image and damn the price/scalability/sustainability.
Fyi: people eat grass fed beef because cows are naturally meant to eat grass, not corn. Cows that eat grass do not get illnesses that require antibiotics, etc.
Would you allow cameras into your whole operation?
> Corn-fed beef is more extensively marbled and more tender.
I don't think there's much debate that corn fed is fattier and more appealing to the average palate. The issue is health and omega-6 to omega-3 ratios. Even a small amount of corn or other seeds in the feed put omega-6 way up.
I don't think there's much debate that corn fed is fattier and more appealing to the average palate. The issue is health and omega-6 to omega-3 ratios. Even a small amount of corn or other seeds in the feed put omega-6 way up.
Call it what you want, but it's still a factory farm. Cattle are fattened on a corn-based diet to a point where they have extreme problems like heart disease and obesity that would normally kill an animal if it wasn't destined for the slaughterhouse already. Your beef still has to be treated and bathed in an ammonia solution to kill the E. Cohli that is everywhere due to the cattle living in their own excrement.
Or how do you deal with the problem of manure in the pens? Surely you can't keep an animal confined in a cage it's whole life and expect it to shit somewhere else?
Watch Food Inc. You will never want to eat "corn-fed" beef again.
Or how do you deal with the problem of manure in the pens? Surely you can't keep an animal confined in a cage it's whole life and expect it to shit somewhere else?
Watch Food Inc. You will never want to eat "corn-fed" beef again.
You deal with the problem of manure in the pens by clearing them out regularly. The pens are large; just bring in a tractor and scrape the pen, then give the manure to some farmer for his fields. We also keep a large "mound" of dirt in the middle of the pens so when it rains, the cattle have a place they can stand out of the mud.
These aren't cages, they're large pens, starting at about the size of a football field and going up.
A grass-fed animal is still going to be walking in, sleeping on, and eating manure; in fact, grazing cattle often look dirtier than ours.
I'm not exactly sure how watching a sensationalist film is going to erase the 18 years of animal husbandry experience I've accumulated. I've assisted in slaughtering cattle, sheep, and pigs, I've shoveled every kind of manure imaginable, I've birthed sheep (starting at about age 5), I've hauled the inevitable dead animals, I've assisted in various basic surgical and veterinary operations. I've been to numerous other feedlots and dairies, and having observed all these things I am quite happy and secure in eating beef and drinking milk.
These aren't cages, they're large pens, starting at about the size of a football field and going up.
A grass-fed animal is still going to be walking in, sleeping on, and eating manure; in fact, grazing cattle often look dirtier than ours.
I'm not exactly sure how watching a sensationalist film is going to erase the 18 years of animal husbandry experience I've accumulated. I've assisted in slaughtering cattle, sheep, and pigs, I've shoveled every kind of manure imaginable, I've birthed sheep (starting at about age 5), I've hauled the inevitable dead animals, I've assisted in various basic surgical and veterinary operations. I've been to numerous other feedlots and dairies, and having observed all these things I am quite happy and secure in eating beef and drinking milk.
What if I live near a "commercial" plant, so it's local to me?
Local is nonsense. If you want grass finished say so. Don't say local. And calling it commercial is misleading too, since grass finished is also commercial.
Local is nonsense. If you want grass finished say so. Don't say local. And calling it commercial is misleading too, since grass finished is also commercial.
Until the whole "USDA Organic" program came along, 'organic' was a reasonable (if inane) proxy for decent-tasting produce. The lack of pesticides never had much to do with the quality, except that it attracted people with graduate degrees to farmwork.
The 'local' thing has been a reasonably successful attempt at taking the place of 'organic' as a proxy marker for non-crap. It has the nice property of still mostly working after being coopted by the big supermarket chains.
It's just as bullshit, if not moreso, but it's useful bullshit.
The 'local' thing has been a reasonably successful attempt at taking the place of 'organic' as a proxy marker for non-crap. It has the nice property of still mostly working after being coopted by the big supermarket chains.
It's just as bullshit, if not moreso, but it's useful bullshit.
I like to buy local simply because I like Dwight (my Angus beef farmer), Steve (my lamb guy) and the chicken lady down the street (I forget her name). Seriously, these are interesting people who work hard at their craft and have to perform some serious "hacks" to get their work done (how do you keep coyotes out of the hen house?). I like them, I like them in the neighborhood, and they inspire me for my own work. I'm willing to pay more for that ... but in reality only the chickens are more expensive. Everything else is cheaper ... but you can't just go to Dwight at 6:30pm nad pick up a steak for dinner. You have to plan around the slaughter and freeze stuff.
Empirically, Giant Eagle (the crap chain supermarket in PA) beef tastes like crap, and local butcher beef tastes really good. Locality is a good proxy for people caring about food tasting good, and for not going through enormous horrible disease-ridden meat-packing plants. The latter tends to produce meat that tastes bad and periodically makes you sick.
AFAIK, there are only 4 cattle slaughterhouses in PA: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/downloads/slaughter_...
Only one of the 4 is not owned by Cargill or JBS.
Unless your beef vendor is taking delivery on whole carcasses and then packing it themselves, the beef is probably packed at the slaughterhouse, as well.
Only one of the 4 is not owned by Cargill or JBS.
Unless your beef vendor is taking delivery on whole carcasses and then packing it themselves, the beef is probably packed at the slaughterhouse, as well.
Since I can't actually respond to any of you directly (thanks HN commenting code!)... [ugh. now the reply links are there, my bad?]
It's illegal to resell beef to consumers which wasn't slaughtered at a facility with a USDA inspector. If you buy the whole animal, like bmj does, then it can be slaughtered by anyone who knows what they're doing and packed (cut and wrapped) by any competent butcher. You then cannot resell that meat (and, in fact, all of the packaging should have not for retail stamps on it).
Now, personally, having actually toured a slaughterhouse (the one in Fresno, CA), I've got no problem with them. I definitely take issue with the "enormous horrible disease-ridden" characterization. Most of the food safety problems have been artifacts of the high volume hamburger production process. If you buy steaks, or even hamburgers made by butchers from whole cuts of meat, you should be in the clear.
I was merely trying to point out, somewhat obliquely, that unless you're slaughtering an animal you own and then buying all of the cut and wrapped meat, any beef you buy in the US was slaughtered at a huge slaughterhouse. That's just the reality of the situation, and it's a combination of regulations intended to keep you safe (having a USDA inspector on site is really, really expensive) and the continued consolidation of the packing industry (enabled by the government, NIMBY organizations, environmental groups, etc).
At the same time, as an Nth generation cattle rancher (where N > 4), I don't want to discourage anyone from buying locally raised beef. ;-)
It's illegal to resell beef to consumers which wasn't slaughtered at a facility with a USDA inspector. If you buy the whole animal, like bmj does, then it can be slaughtered by anyone who knows what they're doing and packed (cut and wrapped) by any competent butcher. You then cannot resell that meat (and, in fact, all of the packaging should have not for retail stamps on it).
Now, personally, having actually toured a slaughterhouse (the one in Fresno, CA), I've got no problem with them. I definitely take issue with the "enormous horrible disease-ridden" characterization. Most of the food safety problems have been artifacts of the high volume hamburger production process. If you buy steaks, or even hamburgers made by butchers from whole cuts of meat, you should be in the clear.
I was merely trying to point out, somewhat obliquely, that unless you're slaughtering an animal you own and then buying all of the cut and wrapped meat, any beef you buy in the US was slaughtered at a huge slaughterhouse. That's just the reality of the situation, and it's a combination of regulations intended to keep you safe (having a USDA inspector on site is really, really expensive) and the continued consolidation of the packing industry (enabled by the government, NIMBY organizations, environmental groups, etc).
At the same time, as an Nth generation cattle rancher (where N > 4), I don't want to discourage anyone from buying locally raised beef. ;-)
The beef we purchased directly from a farmer (all cows are 100% pastured and grass-fed) are processed and packed by Cheplic in Finleyville, PA.
Of course, the farmer isn't processing an obscene amount of cattle each year, either, and he only sells directly to consumers, face-to-face, so a small butcher can actually handle that sort of volume.
Of course, the farmer isn't processing an obscene amount of cattle each year, either, and he only sells directly to consumers, face-to-face, so a small butcher can actually handle that sort of volume.
Heh. The local butcher whose very happy meat I ate actually was in the Ferry Plaza in SF.
But really, I don't know if the goodness in non-Giant-Eagle meat has anything to do with the meat packing industry. I just was trying to convince ars that food people aren't being totally dumb when they say that local is often better than GEagle equivalents.
But really, I don't know if the goodness in non-Giant-Eagle meat has anything to do with the meat packing industry. I just was trying to convince ars that food people aren't being totally dumb when they say that local is often better than GEagle equivalents.
I haven't looked into buying local beef (I'm in Chicago and have good sources for high-quality beef), but I have done the legwork on pork, and all of the farms I can order from outsource "processing" and add a couple bucks per pound to the cost of the meat to cover it. I don't think slaughterhouse ownership is any kind of smoking gun.
I live in Chicago. What are your sources of high-quality beef?
Fox & Obel, Paulina - first two that come to mind.
Hah. If you think Giant Eagle is crap, you should step into a Kroger sometime.
I grew up around Pittsburgh, then moved to Atlanta for school ~9 years ago. Talk about a substantial drop in supermarket quality...
I grew up around Pittsburgh, then moved to Atlanta for school ~9 years ago. Talk about a substantial drop in supermarket quality...
But what if I am buying locally raised and processed grass-fed beef? Local is hardly nonsense. Every two weeks I meet the guy actually raising the animals to buy our food (beef, chicken, milk, cheese, eggs). I can't think of a more appropriate way to do business with something as important as what I put in my body.
you wont find the "commercial plant" selling locally.
You could go further afield for your meat (I do myself actually) but a "local producer" is certainly the style your after.
You could go further afield for your meat (I do myself actually) but a "local producer" is certainly the style your after.
If you buy local you're much more likely to get beef that is grass fed, and not factory farm raised beef that is fed corn and lives in their own filth. You know in order to kill bacteria in ground beef, they actually use an ammonia bath, and they can only guarantee it will kill 99% of the bacteria? Somehow, the FDA thinks this is safe. What's the harm in 1% E. Cohli, after all?
Watch a documentary called Food, Inc. and become enlightened.
Watch a documentary called Food, Inc. and become enlightened.
I'm pretty excited about the prospect of eating a delicious steak for only a few bucks! I also enjoy that this person has the same method of cooking as I do, which is to create a recipe and then iterate on it several times within the span of a few weeks before it eventually tastes amazing.
OK. Sous Vide looks more interesting to me that overly salting a piece of meat. tptacek care to weigh in? I am about 23 hours away from buying a rice cooker + pid controller to make this happen. I do the pid part at work so it is interesting to me from a work point of view too.
Edit: If you have not seen sous vide cooking: http://amath.colorado.edu/~baldwind/sous-vide.html
It looks amazing to me.
Edit: If you have not seen sous vide cooking: http://amath.colorado.edu/~baldwind/sous-vide.html
It looks amazing to me.
I was cooking at a two Michelin star restaurant last year where a large majority of proteins and vegetables were cooked sous vide. Don't underestimate the importance of a good salting, but sous vide will make everything you cook perfect, and consistent.
There is a better home option now than the rice cooker + pid timer( which does not circulate water and leads to uneven cooking. http://www.sousvidesupreme.com/
This is as good as you can get without buying a $995 dollar immersion circulator(which you should buy if you can).
Pick up the more expensive foodsaver, if you can't afford a commercial unit. I cook at arazorashinyknife.com these days, and our commercial unit which costs $5000 just died on us, it cost $1000 just to have a guy look at it -.-
http://cookingissues.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/coming-soon-so... Here is a primer on sous-vide cooking, which by the way can can be done the ghetto way by sealing a sturdy ziplock bag almsot under water, to get as much air out as you can. Then you can leave a large pot of water running under the hot water tap until you can get the water to the temperture you need.
There is a better home option now than the rice cooker + pid timer( which does not circulate water and leads to uneven cooking. http://www.sousvidesupreme.com/
This is as good as you can get without buying a $995 dollar immersion circulator(which you should buy if you can).
Pick up the more expensive foodsaver, if you can't afford a commercial unit. I cook at arazorashinyknife.com these days, and our commercial unit which costs $5000 just died on us, it cost $1000 just to have a guy look at it -.-
http://cookingissues.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/coming-soon-so... Here is a primer on sous-vide cooking, which by the way can can be done the ghetto way by sealing a sturdy ziplock bag almsot under water, to get as much air out as you can. Then you can leave a large pot of water running under the hot water tap until you can get the water to the temperture you need.
Aren't you worried about the plasticizers from the bags?
Sous Vide sounds interesting, but I don't relish the though of eating known carcinogens that are leeching into my foods. BPA is a serious risk, and the FDA so far has refused to take much action on it.
It seems that corporate profits trump safety these days. How much rocket fuel is safe to drink in our public water supply? What are a few deaths against the right to corporate earnings?
It seems that corporate profits trump safety these days. How much rocket fuel is safe to drink in our public water supply? What are a few deaths against the right to corporate earnings?
You're not crazy, but if you're serious, you basically need to avoid all commercial meat, both because nobody's guaranteed that things like BPA haven't leached into your food before it arrives on the shelves, and because commercial meat is exposed to worse things than plasticizers.
Yes.
Totally not sold on the value of the circulator for a home rig (although, don't spent $1000 on an IC, since the price circulation is about to drop radically). Unless you want to make a poster of eggs cooked to every degree between 130 and 150, the ghetto PID controller setup is plenty precise enough.
I highly doubt that the price of the ic is going to drop as it still hasn't dropped a dollar. A oid controller is totally fine for a home cook, and if you can afford it the sous vide supreme is even better. A quality foodsaver would be just fine for home use as well. PS if any NYC HN'ers are interested in coming to an underground supper club for dinner, check our. Arazorashinyknife.com and shoot me an e-mail. Its a fun time and everybody Is welcome
Ping me in email, and I'll track down the $300 part I'm thinking of.
I've seen (IRL) the sous vide supreme appliance, and have a peer who got to use one for a couple weeks, and if you've got the ghetto rig, the SVS doesn't add anything. Hacker News types are better off with the PID controller.
I've seen (IRL) the sous vide supreme appliance, and have a peer who got to use one for a couple weeks, and if you've got the ghetto rig, the SVS doesn't add anything. Hacker News types are better off with the PID controller.
arazorashinyknife, eh? We run in similar circles (friends with cathy erway?). Is your project food-related?
She's a friend of a friend I believe..we've never met. Yeah we do dinners around the city/country/world. We're doing a series of dinners in late march, sign up for the mailing list on arazorashinyknife.com for a heads up, you should come!
You mean the project I mention in my HN profile?
I really want to do sous vide, but basically everything I've read says you get bad results unless you have a serious-dude vacuum chamber packer sealer $4000 thing, which seems mildly impractical.
Especially, you can't do the spectacular compressed stuff without one of those.
You can get sous-vide-like results sometimes without said equipment, though; Thomas Keller's Ad Hoc at Home book contains a lot of unstated backports from sous vide techniques. For instance, he has you blowtorch a big prime rib roast and then cook it at very low temperature in the oven (275 F) for two hours. It reliably comes out with the uniform-pink-almost-all-the-way-to-the-edges effect. Presumably not quite as close.
Especially, you can't do the spectacular compressed stuff without one of those.
You can get sous-vide-like results sometimes without said equipment, though; Thomas Keller's Ad Hoc at Home book contains a lot of unstated backports from sous vide techniques. For instance, he has you blowtorch a big prime rib roast and then cook it at very low temperature in the oven (275 F) for two hours. It reliably comes out with the uniform-pink-almost-all-the-way-to-the-edges effect. Presumably not quite as close.
I call shenanigans on the $4000 SV rig stuff. Commercial kitchens will spend $4000 on an immersion circulator alone, and that's before the cryovac or whatever they're doing to seal food.
If you want to (a) make watermelons with the texture of a strip steak or (b) cook SV in huge volume, you need to investigate high end equipment.
Otherwise, the concept behind SV is extremely simple. Precisely controlled temperature over long cooking time. The $120 PID controllers do that job just fine.
What have you read that says you need a cryovac to do SV well? The Baldwin guide actively endorses the ghetto setup, and there are numerous blogs of people succeeding with it. The Keller sous vide book isn't a home cookbook any more than the Alinea cookbook is. You're not making French Laundry food at home no matter how you equip your kitchen.
If you want to (a) make watermelons with the texture of a strip steak or (b) cook SV in huge volume, you need to investigate high end equipment.
Otherwise, the concept behind SV is extremely simple. Precisely controlled temperature over long cooking time. The $120 PID controllers do that job just fine.
What have you read that says you need a cryovac to do SV well? The Baldwin guide actively endorses the ghetto setup, and there are numerous blogs of people succeeding with it. The Keller sous vide book isn't a home cookbook any more than the Alinea cookbook is. You're not making French Laundry food at home no matter how you equip your kitchen.
Actually, I do make French Laundry food at home sometimes. From the original cookbook, anyway.
I would think you still need something vaguely vacuum-sealer-like, since as the Baldwin guide says any air pockets will expand and insulate half the object.
But I suppose I'll try the $40 vacuum sealer.
I would think you still need something vaguely vacuum-sealer-like, since as the Baldwin guide says any air pockets will expand and insulate half the object.
But I suppose I'll try the $40 vacuum sealer.
You definitely get small pockets of air. On the other hand, the week I started doing this, I fanatically probed the temperatures of the proteins I cooked, and they were invariably exactly where I set the controller to. It got boring, so I stopped checking. Also, the difference between perfect 131-133f ribeye and carefully cooked conventional ribeye is not subtle.
I would imagine that the pockets of air is going to matter less the longer you have the protein in the bath. What is your typical use case start it in the morning before work and then dinner? or is is a more abbreviated cycle?
I thought of this exact page whilst reading; I'm glad I wasn't the only one.
It would be pretty awesome if you documented how you made it work (especially if you do it in such a way that is cheap and easily reproducible).
It would be pretty awesome if you documented how you made it work (especially if you do it in such a way that is cheap and easily reproducible).
1. Buy Auber Instruments SV controller @ ~$120.
2. Buy mechanically-switched Black & Decker rice cooker @ $40.
3. Buy Seal-a-Meal vacuum sealer @ $40.
4. Buy two aged rib-eye steaks.
5. Pat steaks dry, salt liberally, pepper.
6. Seal steaks in a single vacuum-sealed bag with 1 tbsp of butter for each steak.
7. Set Auber PID controller for 131f.
8. Put sealed steaks in the bottom of the rice cooker. Fill with water.
9. Ensure that the thermal probe from the PID controller is in the water.
10. Ensure that the rice cooker is plugged into the PID controller, and the PID controller into the wall.
11. Walk away for 4 hours.
12. Heat peanut oil in a skillet until shimmering.
13. Remove steaks from water bath. Pat dry. Oil should be just-smoking.
14. Sear steaks on both sides, 30-40 seconds per side.
15. Rest meat 10-15 minutes.
16. Serve.
2. Buy mechanically-switched Black & Decker rice cooker @ $40.
3. Buy Seal-a-Meal vacuum sealer @ $40.
4. Buy two aged rib-eye steaks.
5. Pat steaks dry, salt liberally, pepper.
6. Seal steaks in a single vacuum-sealed bag with 1 tbsp of butter for each steak.
7. Set Auber PID controller for 131f.
8. Put sealed steaks in the bottom of the rice cooker. Fill with water.
9. Ensure that the thermal probe from the PID controller is in the water.
10. Ensure that the rice cooker is plugged into the PID controller, and the PID controller into the wall.
11. Walk away for 4 hours.
12. Heat peanut oil in a skillet until shimmering.
13. Remove steaks from water bath. Pat dry. Oil should be just-smoking.
14. Sear steaks on both sides, 30-40 seconds per side.
15. Rest meat 10-15 minutes.
16. Serve.
You are right. SousVide cooking prepares healthy meals with less salt and spices, and at the same time, preserve the vitamins and nutrients and flavour much more than conventional cooking. Our latest release SVM 1500D temperature controller works beautifully with a basic rice cooker. FreshMealsSolutions is introducing another new product called FreshMealsMagic which is a heater and circulator all in one for $159.00. It will make any pots into a constant water bath for sousvide cooking ( no need for rice cooker).
Get me a review unit! If it works, I will sing its praises to the heavens.
Finally a Hacker News article I can share with my Mom!!
Just don't share it with your wife .. she may take offense.
Hah! My wife was the one who told me about <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=March+14th>March 14th</a>. This will make it even better.
protip: salt all meat 10-60 minutes before cooking, depending on size. Don't do this with fish.
alternative: brine all your meat.
alternative: brine all your meat.
Why not on fish? Around here (SW of Europe) it's customary to salt mackerel and sardines the morning before cooking. Even the whole day before, if they're going to be boiled.
Salting things a while beforehand so the salt penetrates it is a good idea in general. You're supposed to do that to basically any savory food, including chicken, meat, eggs. For big things, like prime rib roasts, you salt it a whole day ahead.
So, this guy compared wrongly-salted expensive steak to correctly-but-very-heavily-salted cheap steak. Unfair.
Also, in general, expensive steak isn't expensive because it's aged. Aged steak is expensive, but the difference between cheap and expensive is more commonly just which part of the cow it is. Filet mignon is a happy tender fatty underused part of the cow. Also, not very much of it per cow.
A good recipe for chicken:
Turn your oven on high (450 if you have ventilation, 425 if not). Coat a 3- or 4-pound chicken with coarse kosher salt so that you have an appealing crust of salt (a tablespoon or so). Put the chicken in a pan, stick a lemon or some onion or any fruit or vegetable you have on hand into the cavity. Put the chicken in the oven. Go away for an hour. Watch some TV, play with the kids, read, have a cocktail, have sex. When an hour has passed, take the chicken out of the oven and put it on the stove top or on a trivet for 15 more minutes. Finito.
From http://blog.ruhlman.com
So, this guy compared wrongly-salted expensive steak to correctly-but-very-heavily-salted cheap steak. Unfair.
Also, in general, expensive steak isn't expensive because it's aged. Aged steak is expensive, but the difference between cheap and expensive is more commonly just which part of the cow it is. Filet mignon is a happy tender fatty underused part of the cow. Also, not very much of it per cow.
A good recipe for chicken:
Turn your oven on high (450 if you have ventilation, 425 if not). Coat a 3- or 4-pound chicken with coarse kosher salt so that you have an appealing crust of salt (a tablespoon or so). Put the chicken in a pan, stick a lemon or some onion or any fruit or vegetable you have on hand into the cavity. Put the chicken in the oven. Go away for an hour. Watch some TV, play with the kids, read, have a cocktail, have sex. When an hour has passed, take the chicken out of the oven and put it on the stove top or on a trivet for 15 more minutes. Finito.
From http://blog.ruhlman.com
The difference between prime and choice is not aging, it's marbling. Marbling will also usually be the difference between pricing of different cuts of meat from the same animal, as more often-used muscles will tend to be leaner and tougher.
Right, marbling is what really makes a difference (just look at kobe beef, what is its key characteristic?).
Btw, the linked article presents nothing new, over salting+removing is an approach already seen in many other places(even cooking show). As the advice of drying it, essential.
@ecuzillo, the salt crust method is perfect for fish, salt encrusted seabass is pretty popular here.
A great way to cook a steak if you have good ventilation is to use a cast iron skillet and heat the skillet in an oven to 500 degrees. Brush the steak with olive oil ahead of time, and make sure it is room temperature (not fridge temperature). Pull the skillet out of the oven, put it on the stove. Turn the burner up on the stove, and cook the steak for 30 seconds on each side, then put the entire skillet back in the oven for 2 minutes on each side.
The steak will be tender and juicy, since searing it at such a hot temperature locks in most of the juices, similar to the way a wound is cauterized.
I only recommend you do this if you have a VERY well ventilated kitchen, as the amount of smoke generated will surely set off any smoke alarms in your house otherwise.
Sidenote: Why is it that a lot of modern kitchens don't have properly ventilated hoods that actually vent outside? It seems ridiculous that most of the hoods over stoves nowadays just recirculate the air back inside. When I want to cook, I want to cook, damn it!
The steak will be tender and juicy, since searing it at such a hot temperature locks in most of the juices, similar to the way a wound is cauterized.
I only recommend you do this if you have a VERY well ventilated kitchen, as the amount of smoke generated will surely set off any smoke alarms in your house otherwise.
Sidenote: Why is it that a lot of modern kitchens don't have properly ventilated hoods that actually vent outside? It seems ridiculous that most of the hoods over stoves nowadays just recirculate the air back inside. When I want to cook, I want to cook, damn it!
Your instructions provide a perfectly reasonable way to cook a steak, but the theory on searing locking in juices has been proven false (see Good Eats or America's Test Kitchen). The purpose of searing steak is to invoke the Maillard Reaction which dramatically increases flavor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Searing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maillard_reaction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Searing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maillard_reaction
The step he's missing is resting the protein after it's cooked; over 15 minutes, the juices redistribute themselves throughout the meat.
Here's a fun article on cooking beef: Bob del Grosso, from the Culinary Institute, losing his shit over how Mark Bittman writes up his technique for the NYTimes:
http://ahungerartist.bobdelgrosso.com/2010/01/minimalist-of-...
Here's a fun article on cooking beef: Bob del Grosso, from the Culinary Institute, losing his shit over how Mark Bittman writes up his technique for the NYTimes:
http://ahungerartist.bobdelgrosso.com/2010/01/minimalist-of-...
Interesting, I did not know that. I assumed it was similar to cauterizing a wound.
I also sear, then finish off in the oven, especially in the winter when I don't want to brave the snow to get to the grill.
Tip: Most olive oils have relatively lower smoke points, especially if you're using virgin. So, if you want to prevent most of the smoke, try canola oil. The OO isn't doing much for flavor, especially if it's burning. Also, a pat of butter at the end is essential.
Tip: Most olive oils have relatively lower smoke points, especially if you're using virgin. So, if you want to prevent most of the smoke, try canola oil. The OO isn't doing much for flavor, especially if it's burning. Also, a pat of butter at the end is essential.
Cooks Illustrated just did a piece where they cook the steak in the oven to 120f and finish on in a skillet; I've used it a couple times, and it works really well.
That is Alton Brown's recipe (http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/alton-brown/pan-seared-ri...).
i make a mean peppersteak using a similar technique that I picked up from a local restaurant.
The diff:
1. crack peppercorns spread across a baking sheet. Lay steak upon them. Compress. I use a heavy (cold) skillet. Flip steak. Repeat.
2. Heat oil just beneath the smoke point in pan, otherwise cook steak as described.
3. Serve with any citrus-based steaksauce. (A1 if you have to, but I prefer to make my own OJ based sauce)
The peppercorn crust is quite good.
The diff:
1. crack peppercorns spread across a baking sheet. Lay steak upon them. Compress. I use a heavy (cold) skillet. Flip steak. Repeat.
2. Heat oil just beneath the smoke point in pan, otherwise cook steak as described.
3. Serve with any citrus-based steaksauce. (A1 if you have to, but I prefer to make my own OJ based sauce)
The peppercorn crust is quite good.
Take the steak out, drain most of the fat out, toss in a minced shallot, turn the heat off, cook the shallot for about a minute, take the pan off heat and throw in any liquor (brandy, cognac, and cheap bourbon all work great), heat to boil, scrape the bottom of the pan, clean, add mustard, mix, add cream to fill the bottom of the pan, mix, reduce. Steak au poivre!
Beautiful with the peppered crust.
Beautiful with the peppered crust.
For anyone trying this at home, please note the "take the pan off heat" part of the instructions...
Being able to make a good pan-sauce is a skill that provides one of the best returns on the time investment for a home cook (second only to making your own stocks and glaces.)
Being able to make a good pan-sauce is a skill that provides one of the best returns on the time investment for a home cook (second only to making your own stocks and glaces.)
Another tip: WRAP THE PAN HANDLE IN SOMETHING HEAT PROOF
In the frenzy of mixing things and moving ingredients around you tend to forget the pan is still at ~500F.
This tip has been brought to you by the scar on my left palm.
In the frenzy of mixing things and moving ingredients around you tend to forget the pan is still at ~500F.
This tip has been brought to you by the scar on my left palm.
I blew a bottle up that way once. It was pretty awesome: there were little splotches everywhere in my kitchen. There are still little splotches in the corners on the ceiling.
Filet is more expensive than hanger, and often better.
Dry-aged is more expensive than fresh, and always better.
Prime is more expensive than choice, and always better.
These things all matter. You're right, but I still want to stomp on the confusion about what "prime" means.
I heartily endorse Ruhlman's "too stupid to cook" chicken recipe. Buy two chickens when you do it, save the other for leftovers. Whole chicken is much more economical than breasts.
Dry-aged is more expensive than fresh, and always better.
Prime is more expensive than choice, and always better.
These things all matter. You're right, but I still want to stomp on the confusion about what "prime" means.
I heartily endorse Ruhlman's "too stupid to cook" chicken recipe. Buy two chickens when you do it, save the other for leftovers. Whole chicken is much more economical than breasts.
I think the second point is a matter of taste. Aging is a fermentation process, and it changes the taste of the meat. Some like it, some don't. It's not like prime vs. choice, which is an issue of fat distribution: people almost universally like well-marbled meat vs. lean or fatty chunks.
Part of the effect of dry-aging is the enzymatic breakdown of the proteins and fats (not really "fermentation") and the other part is the reduction in the moisture content of a particular cut. The loss of water weight is one of the reasons a dry-aged cut costs more.
You can replicate a similar process at home by putting your cut of beef in an open container in your refrigerator (be sure to put a small rack under it to get air circulation on the bottom) and letting it sit for 3-4 days. For something like a rib roast the improvement in taste and texture can be quite significant.
You can replicate a similar process at home by putting your cut of beef in an open container in your refrigerator (be sure to put a small rack under it to get air circulation on the bottom) and letting it sit for 3-4 days. For something like a rib roast the improvement in taste and texture can be quite significant.
I actually prefer Strip or Sirloin to Filet. Filet is tender all the time, but I think the others have more flavor :)
How would you do that with eggs?
Eggshells are actually very porous. Putting eggs in very salty water will see the salt get absorbed through the shell and into the white and yolk.
'Salty eggs' are often used in Chinese food...
'Salty eggs' are often used in Chinese food...
If you're frying or baking them, you salt them before they set, rather than after they go on the plate. If you're poaching, you salt the water. If you're doing the crazy poach-in-the-shell stuff, I imagine you do something with the shell porousness, like the sibling comment.
ruhlman is the goddamn man.
This is basically the method I use when cooking steaks.
Also see this post which discusses the effects of flip intervals on cooking time and evenness of steaks: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1117296
Also, some other simple tips:
1) In general, the more marbling the better. You want lots of veins of fat in the muscle of the cut. Big chunks of fat don't count, and leaner meat won't have as much flavor.
2) Hard white fat is good, spongy yellow fat is not.
3) Don't overcook your meat.
Also see this post which discusses the effects of flip intervals on cooking time and evenness of steaks: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1117296
Also, some other simple tips:
1) In general, the more marbling the better. You want lots of veins of fat in the muscle of the cut. Big chunks of fat don't count, and leaner meat won't have as much flavor.
2) Hard white fat is good, spongy yellow fat is not.
3) Don't overcook your meat.
My mum came along for a trip to the market a few weekends ago and had me looking for well aged porterhouse. She told me to look specifically for the yellowing fat as its a sign of age. She grabbed one that looked sickeningly yellow but I can confirm that this was one of the most tender porterhouses I've had.
Yellow fat can indicate a lot of things, most of them not good:
1) The animal was old.
2) Worst case: the animal was losing weight when it died. This will make the meat taste sour (as best I can describe).
3) Best case: it's grass fed and not grain finished. This fat will usually be hard. If you're in the UK (guessing because you said "mum"), that's probably what you got.
4) It's dry aged beef. The outer layer will turn a bit yellow, but otherwise the fat is going to be whatever color it was before aging. Temperature and duration of aging has a lot more to do with how tender the cut is going to be.
Really, it's the spongy feeling stuff you want to avoid. If you're in the US, and it's not marketed as grass fed, it's almost certainly from an old dairy cow or an animal which was sick when it was slaughtered (and losing weight).
1) The animal was old.
2) Worst case: the animal was losing weight when it died. This will make the meat taste sour (as best I can describe).
3) Best case: it's grass fed and not grain finished. This fat will usually be hard. If you're in the UK (guessing because you said "mum"), that's probably what you got.
4) It's dry aged beef. The outer layer will turn a bit yellow, but otherwise the fat is going to be whatever color it was before aging. Temperature and duration of aging has a lot more to do with how tender the cut is going to be.
Really, it's the spongy feeling stuff you want to avoid. If you're in the US, and it's not marketed as grass fed, it's almost certainly from an old dairy cow or an animal which was sick when it was slaughtered (and losing weight).
I think you could use less total sodium when doing this if you substituted some MSG for salt.
A more natural way to achieve the same result would be to wrap the steak in kombu and allow it to rest in the fridge for a while. The Japanese use this technique for some fish preparations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kombu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kombu
Liberally salting your steak is a fine idea, but where is this person finding choice ribeye for $5? Choice isn't "cheap". The $15/lb ribeye at Whole Foods is choice, as is pretty much every other steak you buy outside a specialty store. There's nothing at all wrong with it.
This article never gets specific, but I get the impression the author doesn't really know what "prime" means: how well marbled the cut is with fat. Salt isn't going to change that (although, again, it will improve your steak).
If tenderness is all you're after, you can use a jaccard on the meat; Google it, they're cheap. They put tiny little cuts in the meat to break up the fibers.
When people say "cheap steak" they usually mean skirt or flank. Can you even get prime skirt steak?
This article never gets specific, but I get the impression the author doesn't really know what "prime" means: how well marbled the cut is with fat. Salt isn't going to change that (although, again, it will improve your steak).
If tenderness is all you're after, you can use a jaccard on the meat; Google it, they're cheap. They put tiny little cuts in the meat to break up the fibers.
When people say "cheap steak" they usually mean skirt or flank. Can you even get prime skirt steak?
USDA beef grading is assigned to the whole carcass, so you can get any part of the cow in prime. Only cuts where USDA rating correlates with quality are typically marketed as prime/choice, typically just loin and rib-eye. You do see things like "prime skirt steak" but it's uncommon, because there won't be any difference in marbling or tenderness on that cut. For other cuts like chuck, prime is actually too fatty for many applications (e.g. try chuck @ Schaub's @ Stanford -- not good for moist cooking, could be good for hamburgers I guess).
Whole Food beef is select not choice. I can only speak for Bay Area definitively, I haven't checked out WF meat counter in Chicago. I doubt it's any different because Whole Foods has a nice high-margin gig going on what they call "natural" beef, which is USDA Select sold as a premium product on the strength of Whole Foods brand. It's a store brand with premium pricing, great gig if you can pull it off, good for Whole Foods.
Whole Food beef is select not choice. I can only speak for Bay Area definitively, I haven't checked out WF meat counter in Chicago. I doubt it's any different because Whole Foods has a nice high-margin gig going on what they call "natural" beef, which is USDA Select sold as a premium product on the strength of Whole Foods brand. It's a store brand with premium pricing, great gig if you can pull it off, good for Whole Foods.
When the steak in front of me is labelled "USDA Choice", it's choice. I would be surprised to find out that any of the steaks at Whole Foods are "select". I think you're just wrong about this.
Yep, you can probably get "prime skirt" at Schaub's. Someone fedex me a Fred Steak, please. I'll send italian beef back in reply.
Yep, you can probably get "prime skirt" at Schaub's. Someone fedex me a Fred Steak, please. I'll send italian beef back in reply.
Interesting, must be a Chicago vs SF Bay thing, definitely no choice meat in Whole Foods here.
S H E N A N I G A N S. I just called Whole Foods SOMA, and they have not one but one hundred and three POUNDS of prime ribeye roast, and prime ribeye steaks cut on display. Yes, the rest is choice.
I usually just put a liberal coating of garlic salt on and grill at a low temperature, rotating every 2 minutes or so until the meat looks visibly moist. Turn the heat up to high at the end for the final 2 rotations and done.
I've had people fly cross-country (twice) for these steaks and it's really not all that hard. But it makes for an expensive summer season with lots of entertaining on my deck.
One guy was mystified as to why I wasn't using the popular Morton's method of high heat and turn once. Then he had one, came back the next weekend unannounced "just happened to be in the area" and tried to bribe me with a bottle of Santa Rita Reserva Cab (I know cheap wine, but good). Too bad I was out of steaks.
And yes, I usually get the on-sale cheap steak at the local grocery. So long as it's decently marbled it doesn't really seem to matter much what I get so long as it's not skirt or flank.
I've had people fly cross-country (twice) for these steaks and it's really not all that hard. But it makes for an expensive summer season with lots of entertaining on my deck.
One guy was mystified as to why I wasn't using the popular Morton's method of high heat and turn once. Then he had one, came back the next weekend unannounced "just happened to be in the area" and tried to bribe me with a bottle of Santa Rita Reserva Cab (I know cheap wine, but good). Too bad I was out of steaks.
And yes, I usually get the on-sale cheap steak at the local grocery. So long as it's decently marbled it doesn't really seem to matter much what I get so long as it's not skirt or flank.
I cook steak in a vacuum-sealed bag submerged in a water bath held with a PID controller at precisely 131f, then sear them in a cast iron pan with just-barely-smoking peanut oil for about 30 seconds a side. Nobody has flown cross-country for my cooking, but the Chicago HN'ers should do a dinner sometime.
I've heard of this technique before, but never tried the product of it yet. How do you control for food-borne diseases like Clostridium botulinum? (honest question). I'd be concerned that level of heat wouldn't kill it off.
It sounds to me like this technique would really help with a complete and consistent cooking of the entire steak -- something I strongly favor. It's why I start with a low heat grill then ramp up to hot at the end. But my technique is imprecise and requires lots of attention.
Does it also help the flavor by keeping the fats close to the meat in the bag? I'd think another side benefit is that the steaks would come out so tender a fork could cut them.
I'd be curious to try throwing in some butter and seasonings into the bag, or at least for the final searing. A browned coating of butter seems to make lots of meats taste really great in my opinion (as opposed to a plant derived oil). But some people don't like the heavy oily taste it can imbue in the food.
It sounds to me like this technique would really help with a complete and consistent cooking of the entire steak -- something I strongly favor. It's why I start with a low heat grill then ramp up to hot at the end. But my technique is imprecise and requires lots of attention.
Does it also help the flavor by keeping the fats close to the meat in the bag? I'd think another side benefit is that the steaks would come out so tender a fork could cut them.
I'd be curious to try throwing in some butter and seasonings into the bag, or at least for the final searing. A browned coating of butter seems to make lots of meats taste really great in my opinion (as opposed to a plant derived oil). But some people don't like the heavy oily taste it can imbue in the food.
Sous vide cooking (what I just described) is effectively pasteurization. At 131f, by the time a steak is cooked through, you'll have a better than 10D reduction in botulism --- in the fantastically unlikely event that your meat is infected with it (botulism is extremely rare).
The sous vide guide (Google for it) will give you the math for this, but their numbers are keyed on salmonella, which is what you really need to look out for; botulism appears to be easier to kill.
As far as aromatics go, cooking sous vide works on the same principal as cooking in a pouch. It amplifies most flavors, which is a good thing with few exceptions (garlic, notably, doesn't work SV).
The sous vide guide (Google for it) will give you the math for this, but their numbers are keyed on salmonella, which is what you really need to look out for; botulism appears to be easier to kill.
As far as aromatics go, cooking sous vide works on the same principal as cooking in a pouch. It amplifies most flavors, which is a good thing with few exceptions (garlic, notably, doesn't work SV).
Thanks for the reply, found the book.
> As far as aromatics go, cooking sous vide works on the same principal as cooking in a pouch.
Ahh, now it suddenly clicks for me. Too bad about the garlic.
> As far as aromatics go, cooking sous vide works on the same principal as cooking in a pouch.
Ahh, now it suddenly clicks for me. Too bad about the garlic.
You use garlic powder to make up for it, and I tend to roast garlic on the side when I really need it. Also, you're saving all the liquid for pan sauces anyways, and you throw garlic into that. I don't find myself missing it.
Seriously, can you just please start a sous vide blog or something? I'm fascinated.
"Chicago HN'ers should do a dinner sometime"
Sounds like a good idea to me. I cooked a 15lbs kobe beef brisket last weekend and had more meat than people to share it with.
Sounds like a good idea to me. I cooked a 15lbs kobe beef brisket last weekend and had more meat than people to share it with.
American Kobe is quite good. It's beef for people who think beef is blue collar and prefer shellfish, lamb, duck, etc.
Jappanese (true) Kobe is even better, and it's the only beef I've ever even considered eating "blue" (super rare). If you're ever in Japan, treat yourself. It's worth it.
Jappanese (true) Kobe is even better, and it's the only beef I've ever even considered eating "blue" (super rare). If you're ever in Japan, treat yourself. It's worth it.
FTA:
* And yes, I know what “Choice” and “Prime” means – it’s the marbling. The salting doesn’t affect fat content – I’m using those terms as a figure of speech.
[deleted]
Drool. Drool. Drool.
Hacking = coding for food.
Hacking = coding for food.
Water dissolves salt, and some of it gets sucked back into meat via osmosis
WTF is wrong with people and osmosis? This is diffusion. Osmosis is diffusion of water and nothing else.
Also, "table salt tastes like shit" is quite true. I've been buying an unrefined sea salt for a while now, the difference is incredible. Flavor in foods, where before was mere saltiness.
WTF is wrong with people and osmosis? This is diffusion. Osmosis is diffusion of water and nothing else.
Also, "table salt tastes like shit" is quite true. I've been buying an unrefined sea salt for a while now, the difference is incredible. Flavor in foods, where before was mere saltiness.
You're noticing the difference in the texture of the salt, not the flavor of the salt. You'll do just as well with kosher salt, which is significantly cheaper than sea salt (and, more importantly, comes in bigger containers).
I have a small bag of fleur de sel (we call it "crunchy salt") which I use to finish things, but again, it's for the texture. I wouldn't say I've found any incredible difference in salt flavor.
I have a small bag of fleur de sel (we call it "crunchy salt") which I use to finish things, but again, it's for the texture. I wouldn't say I've found any incredible difference in salt flavor.
No, the flavor. Unrefined salts tend to carry loads of random minerals from the source, which lend their flavors to whatever you use it on.
I'm not a big salt-flavor fan, so I effectively never have salt pieces on anything. The texture doesn't exist in any salt I use, as it's all dissolved.
edit: finally found it. Redmond RealSalt, all the big grocery stores near me carry it. ~6.50 for 26 oz, so for my uses that's 6.50 for a year of salt usage, if not more.
I'm not a big salt-flavor fan, so I effectively never have salt pieces on anything. The texture doesn't exist in any salt I use, as it's all dissolved.
edit: finally found it. Redmond RealSalt, all the big grocery stores near me carry it. ~6.50 for 26 oz, so for my uses that's 6.50 for a year of salt usage, if not more.
Unrefined salts carry a miniscule amount of trace minerals from the source and this small amount of contamination is almost imperceptible. If you do not actually salt after cooking (and all of the salt is therefore dissolved into the food) then you are not tasting the so-called "flavor" of the salt, it is all in your head. A specialty salt can be mildly effective as a finishing agent but if you are adding it to the dish more than five minutes before it hits someone's mouth you are wasting your money.
In the case of the salt you mention this is just kosher salt with a particular bit of marketing spin on the package. What makes kosher salt the go-to choice for most chefs is the size of the crystal -- it is large enough that you can use a "pinch" in your fingers and get some control over distrbution and these large crystals also take a little while to completely dissolve so it is much better than standard table salt when you are doing something like salting a piece of meat prior to cooking. Another reason you may like it (given your stated aversion to salty flavors) is that because of the large crystal size a given volume of kosher salt has only half as much actual salt in it compared to table salt. If you have a recipe that calls for one teaspoon of salt and you use one teaspoon of kosher salt you are actually only putting in a half teaspoon of NaCl (the other half of the teaspoon is just air.) This is not bad for most cooking, but you should go out an get a bit of regular table salt if you do any baking at all, that is one area where cutting down on salt can ruin a recipe if you don't know what all of the other components in the recipe are doing and compensating appropriately.
In the case of the salt you mention this is just kosher salt with a particular bit of marketing spin on the package. What makes kosher salt the go-to choice for most chefs is the size of the crystal -- it is large enough that you can use a "pinch" in your fingers and get some control over distrbution and these large crystals also take a little while to completely dissolve so it is much better than standard table salt when you are doing something like salting a piece of meat prior to cooking. Another reason you may like it (given your stated aversion to salty flavors) is that because of the large crystal size a given volume of kosher salt has only half as much actual salt in it compared to table salt. If you have a recipe that calls for one teaspoon of salt and you use one teaspoon of kosher salt you are actually only putting in a half teaspoon of NaCl (the other half of the teaspoon is just air.) This is not bad for most cooking, but you should go out an get a bit of regular table salt if you do any baking at all, that is one area where cutting down on salt can ruin a recipe if you don't know what all of the other components in the recipe are doing and compensating appropriately.
Try some unrefined salts before claiming it's identical to table salt. In the stuff I have, there are clods of red & grey minerals. Sticking your finger in & tasting a bit, you can extremely easily taste a difference. Dissolving it in water, you can see the precipitates, and easily taste a difference. Double-blind in all cases, compared against two other kinds of "regular" salt. I'm careful with what I eat. It's even easily detectable in clear soups.
It's the flavor. Really. There is a difference. There's a definite marketing spin to try to sell it, but that doesn't imply there's no difference.
It's the flavor. Really. There is a difference. There's a definite marketing spin to try to sell it, but that doesn't imply there's no difference.
Mass-market sea salt and kosher salt are the same thing. Buy whichever is cheaper. You're right that it's better for cooking than table salt (except in baking, where you cannot use it). This is otherwise not worth arguing about.
A lot of people say they can detect an "off" flavor in table salt, maybe because of the anticaking agents, maybe because of the iodine. I wouldn't write off the difference between table salt and kosher salt, even if you're salting before you cook.
Using expensive salt before/during cooking though sounds crazy to me.
Using expensive salt before/during cooking though sounds crazy to me.
Cut her some slack. She did confess to sleeping through chemistry and otherwise wrote and illustrated a good article, while pounding bourbon.
It's not the article writer in particular, the article is basically fine in other respects, it's people in general. I see far more people using "osmosis" more often than "diffusion", despite almost never using it correctly.
For example, those "Learning through osmosis" signs in libraries, articles, shirts, etc. absolutely abound. It clearly isn't working if you think that's osmosis. Or there are tons of services with quotes like this: http://www.languagetutoring.co.uk/LearningThroughOsmosis.htm...
Evidently they aren't tutoring science.
Osmosis vs diffusion is not difficult to understand. It just seems people use it to sound smarter, and thus fail miserably 99% of the time.
For example, those "Learning through osmosis" signs in libraries, articles, shirts, etc. absolutely abound. It clearly isn't working if you think that's osmosis. Or there are tons of services with quotes like this: http://www.languagetutoring.co.uk/LearningThroughOsmosis.htm...
Evidently they aren't tutoring science.
Osmosis vs diffusion is not difficult to understand. It just seems people use it to sound smarter, and thus fail miserably 99% of the time.
"Osmosis vs diffusion is not difficult to understand. It just seems people use it to sound smarter, and thus fail miserably 99% of the time."
They fail 99% of the time with you, but if the vast majority of the people don't know the difference (as you said they don't), then the misusers aren't failing with the vast majority of listeners. :)
They fail 99% of the time with you, but if the vast majority of the people don't know the difference (as you said they don't), then the misusers aren't failing with the vast majority of listeners. :)
Incorrect statements are incorrect, whether or not anyone's around to hear the tree fall in the forest. I'll accept ramchip's explanation through simile, but quite literally that's the first time I've heard it (I may live under a rock in that, though).
Are you then implying that anything that the majority believes - heck, lets make it 99% - is true, and should be accepted?
Lets put it in geek-friendly terms, dating it back a number of years, so it strikes a chord with yc users: "Windows is the only operating system."
Are you then implying that anything that the majority believes - heck, lets make it 99% - is true, and should be accepted?
Lets put it in geek-friendly terms, dating it back a number of years, so it strikes a chord with yc users: "Windows is the only operating system."
I was replying to your statement: "It just seems people use it to sound smarter, and thus fail miserably 99% of the time."
I'm saying they fail to sound smarter with you but perhaps succeed in sounding smarter [not at being right] with the vast majority.
I'm saying they fail to sound smarter with you but perhaps succeed in sounding smarter [not at being right] with the vast majority.
I wouldn't say "learning through osmosis" is necessarily wrong. Knowledge is like water. Throw a human in an environment with concentrated knowledge and he will absorb some. Of course, this isn't strictly the same, but it's just a simile...
> table salt tastes like shit
What's the chemical difference? Doesn't the mined salt just come from old dried out seas?
What's the chemical difference? Doesn't the mined salt just come from old dried out seas?
Alternate title: Lure redditors to HN with steak.
You can also break down collagen (the tough protein) by braising, or a couple of other simple slow-cooking methods. The meat will have different taste and texture from grilled steak, but in no way inferior. Braising can easily turn a $5/pound cut into something that tastes better than 95% of the dry-aged porterhouse steaks out there.
Sous vide is great for braising at the exact temperature that you want. Braising is still high heat cooking and you don't have precise control over it. Sous vide allows one to braise with moisture intact and preferred "doneness".
Just tried it - it works!! best steak I've ever cooked for myself. picture (that adds nothing, but I took it anyway): http://i48.tinypic.com/2nkulfn.jpg
boneless beef ribeye 3/4in thick - I used a grill pan since it's too cold to grill outside. maybe 2 minutes a side, and another 2 to finish. I added some garlic powder an that was it (no additional salt). I let it rest for a good 10 min. One end was a little too salty, which was probably my fault for not washing it better. But overall, it fantastic. I've always tried to salt generously when cooking meat, but it never really worked like this. Great tip.
boneless beef ribeye 3/4in thick - I used a grill pan since it's too cold to grill outside. maybe 2 minutes a side, and another 2 to finish. I added some garlic powder an that was it (no additional salt). I let it rest for a good 10 min. One end was a little too salty, which was probably my fault for not washing it better. But overall, it fantastic. I've always tried to salt generously when cooking meat, but it never really worked like this. Great tip.