Car and Driver's Review of the 1981 De Lorean (1981)(caranddriver.com)
caranddriver.com
Car and Driver's Review of the 1981 De Lorean (1981)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/1981-de-lorean-archived-first-drive-review
8 comments
> The main problem with them is that Delorean Motor Company didn't really follow the concept of "model years," instead changing things as they went along, so restoring one to original condition is practically impossible.
I've heard there is a new car company that does something similar (not having precise model years) and also offers a car with gullwing doors.... I think it starts with a "T".... I wonder if they'll be hard to restore when collectors look back in 20 years.
I've heard there is a new car company that does something similar (not having precise model years) and also offers a car with gullwing doors.... I think it starts with a "T".... I wonder if they'll be hard to restore when collectors look back in 20 years.
It's really not that big a deal these days with computerized inventory systems at parts shops. Even within a model year, there can be multiple versions of the same part as things get redesigned to improve reliability or for value engineering. Parts guy will just ask for the VIN and get the right part that way.
I think the battery will be impossible to reengineer. No factory will exist anywhere to make those tiny old pathetic, flammable things.
Teslas will be effectively impossible to maintain. On the upside there are way fewer moving parts to go awry.
That's one thing I really liked about the first Honda Insight (lightweight two-seater hatchback hybrid - looks like a space egg). Picked one up last year for dirt cheap because I have a long commute. Got 70 mpg (mostly freeway). Great thing was I could also work on it pretty easily. Even worked fine without the hybrid system (they're all old enough where the batteries are crapping out) So sad when another car totaled it.
There will be some forum on the internet where a bunch of guys are reverse engineering them, much as they do for 6502 based systems now.
That's when I will probally buy one. I was just thing about this the other day. I was thinking when they get to the used market, and guys start modifying them; that's the day I'll put on my dielectric gloves and put that charging station in my garage.
Right now, a vechicle I can't modify, and work on is just not my style. If I had disposable income, it would probally be a different story.
Right now, a vechicle I can't modify, and work on is just not my style. If I had disposable income, it would probally be a different story.
Exactly why I'm hesitant to buy one. I mean, I was paranoid enough when buying my Macbook Pro (omg, it's all soldered!), so a Tesla is probably not for me in the long run.
I would gladly lease one though, but it seems impossible here in Denmark.
I would gladly lease one though, but it seems impossible here in Denmark.
> hard to restore
Especially if you want the original programming. ;)
Especially if you want the original programming. ;)
My father got one back in the early 2000's from the estate of a collector and I've gotten to drive it a few times. You definitely get a _lot_ of looks and comments. I found it to be a supremely uncomfortable car. It's particularly nasty in the summer-- the AC is underwhelming and the windows offer very little ventilation. His is a manual transmission and it feels under-powered, viewed in the context of a daily driver. Viewed in a "sports car" context it's definitely under-powered.
His car is fairly low mileage (under 30K), but it needed a substantial amount of electrical retrofit (the stock relays had a propensity to short-out, apparently) and the torsion bars on the doors needed to be replaced.
They are definitely iconic cars.
His car is fairly low mileage (under 30K), but it needed a substantial amount of electrical retrofit (the stock relays had a propensity to short-out, apparently) and the torsion bars on the doors needed to be replaced.
They are definitely iconic cars.
> They are definitely iconic cars.
It's pretty amazing that such a bad car, built in such small numbers, became so beloved. By almost any objective measure, it just sucks.
I got to see one and talk with the owner a couple of months ago. He says one of them most common questions he gets is whether anything happens when you get it up to 88MPH. His answer is that it cannot achieve 88MPH!
I'm hardly immune, of course. I love them too!
I think it must be because of Back to the Future. It's like being able to buy the Millennium Falcon, in terms of owning the star of a beloved movie. Even if the real-world item sucked, we'd all love to own one.
It's pretty amazing that such a bad car, built in such small numbers, became so beloved. By almost any objective measure, it just sucks.
I got to see one and talk with the owner a couple of months ago. He says one of them most common questions he gets is whether anything happens when you get it up to 88MPH. His answer is that it cannot achieve 88MPH!
I'm hardly immune, of course. I love them too!
I think it must be because of Back to the Future. It's like being able to buy the Millennium Falcon, in terms of owning the star of a beloved movie. Even if the real-world item sucked, we'd all love to own one.
It was John too. I was a young guy at the time, but I heard him in an interview and he said something, I was thinking at the time.
I forget the exact quote, by he said aomething like, 'I'm tired of only seeing only guys my age, with my income driving a nice sports car. I would like to give young guys the thrill of driving a sports car.'
I just liked him as a person, and he came across as someone I could trust. (I didn't trust most adults back then. Even now, I don't trust many of my peers. Crazy huh?). I did like the design of the car, and I really liked the stainless steel body.
Even though I liked the car; I remember thinking even if I did have the money I wouldn't buy it. I wanted an old 356 Porsche. I finally found one I could afford. My friend talked me out of the $2000 sale. He said, these old Porsche's rust from the bottom up, and eventually you can't close the doors. He was a car dealer, so I didn't buy the vechicle. He was probally right, but my dream car is still the 356 rust free Porsche.
I was so glad when he beat the cocaine rap.
I forget the exact quote, by he said aomething like, 'I'm tired of only seeing only guys my age, with my income driving a nice sports car. I would like to give young guys the thrill of driving a sports car.'
I just liked him as a person, and he came across as someone I could trust. (I didn't trust most adults back then. Even now, I don't trust many of my peers. Crazy huh?). I did like the design of the car, and I really liked the stainless steel body.
Even though I liked the car; I remember thinking even if I did have the money I wouldn't buy it. I wanted an old 356 Porsche. I finally found one I could afford. My friend talked me out of the $2000 sale. He said, these old Porsche's rust from the bottom up, and eventually you can't close the doors. He was a car dealer, so I didn't buy the vechicle. He was probally right, but my dream car is still the 356 rust free Porsche.
I was so glad when he beat the cocaine rap.
If you haven't read it, the autobiography of his career at GM "On A Clear Day, You Can See General Motors" is worth a look. Some very nice stuff in there, and corresponds well with what others have said about the company.
There's a company that basically makes a "Stage 2" DeLoreans, fixing pretty much every single problem with that car, but it would cost you pretty penny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L1LPQlao3I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3L1LPQlao3I
Venturi pushed the old PRV V6 engine to more than 400HP on some of its sport cars, this engine had its problem but in the De Lorean version is probably nigh indestructible.
Now here's the modernized De Lorean.[1] Stanford's auto shop (yes, they have one) upgraded a DeLorean. They pulled the engine and power train, and put in an electric drive from Renovo, which makes supercars. Then they put in the controls for autonomous operation. Then they programmed it to drift.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNIDcT0Zdj4
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNIDcT0Zdj4
Text and a couple pics (one gif animation):
http://www.wired.com/2015/10/heres-a-self-driving-delorean-t...
'"The DeLorean’s a really great car," Gerdes says, "unless you want it to accelerate, brake, or turn. It’s a horrendously understeering vehicle, so it’s hard to hold a drift because the front end just keep losing grip."'
(Tires aren't the only thing getting burnt there ...)
http://www.wired.com/2015/10/heres-a-self-driving-delorean-t...
'"The DeLorean’s a really great car," Gerdes says, "unless you want it to accelerate, brake, or turn. It’s a horrendously understeering vehicle, so it’s hard to hold a drift because the front end just keep losing grip."'
(Tires aren't the only thing getting burnt there ...)
Drivers ? Where we're going, we don't need drivers.
Pitch mode: I've been working on the telemetry system for that Renovo/Stanford car. It's a fun project, and if anybody out there is interested in working on the back-end data collection and visualization definitely get in touch.
I wonder what one of those Renovo drives would set you back for...
There's something about De Loreans that make them seem like blank slates, ready to hack. I guess because there's a lot of flat(-ish) surfaces all over the car that makes things easier to mount.
I still think those cars look great, even compared to the modern cars you see in the pictures directly above it there. There's a place for De Lorean style, and I bet it makes a comeback. Not everything needs to be flowy and curved.
I still think those cars look great, even compared to the modern cars you see in the pictures directly above it there. There's a place for De Lorean style, and I bet it makes a comeback. Not everything needs to be flowy and curved.
the rattles had squeaks
That's a great bit of writing right there.
That's a great bit of writing right there.
The writing definitely struck me as well. I wonder whether this was just par for the times or if this a particular writer's take on fine writing for car reviews. It's almost inaccessible, but it is definitely interesting.
Much enjoyment from the rest of it too here.
> "every one of us is rushing back to the typewriter with more questions than answers"
Those were the times...
Those were the times...
> We hereby hand the onus back to the kind folks at DMC who laid their progress and problems out for all the world to see. Clearly, their future pivots on a single unresolved issue: will the Dunmurry plant rise to the cause and start building the silver bullets John Z. intended? Or will the De Lorean become another Concorde—a technological marvel that turns out to be an economic disaster? Find out for sure in our next installment.
Well, we saw how that went, albeit for reasons other than the difficulty of producing a reliable gull-wing door.
Well, we saw how that went, albeit for reasons other than the difficulty of producing a reliable gull-wing door.
130 HP? Has the definition changed?
No. Cars are amazing now. 35 years of tech, like compound interest, it adds up. Also, i think the time machine was widely regarded as being a bit underpowered. 9 second 0-60 wasn't all that great, even for then.
On the other hand:
1953 Corvette: 150 horsepower
1963 Corvette: 250 horsepower
1970 Corvette: 300 horsepower
1971 Corvette: 270 horsepower
1973 Corvette: 190 horsepower
1975 Corvette: 150 horsepower
The 1970s were dark, crummy times, due to emissions regulations and the oil crisis. By 1981 when the Delorean came out, the Corvette was still stuck at 190 horsepower.
So, building a powerful engine isn't hard, but building a powerful engine that fits within post-1970s emissions standards is.
1953 Corvette: 150 horsepower
1963 Corvette: 250 horsepower
1970 Corvette: 300 horsepower
1971 Corvette: 270 horsepower
1973 Corvette: 190 horsepower
1975 Corvette: 150 horsepower
The 1970s were dark, crummy times, due to emissions regulations and the oil crisis. By 1981 when the Delorean came out, the Corvette was still stuck at 190 horsepower.
So, building a powerful engine isn't hard, but building a powerful engine that fits within post-1970s emissions standards is.
Its also important to note that pre -72 horsepower standard legal SAE testing was bare engine no accessories no exhaust and post -72 standard legal SAE testing was "more or less wheel dyno".
So it was not unusual at all for something like a caddy to go from 400 gross HP with no exhaust no water pump no cooling system nothing to 250 HP pushed out the wheels.
Now a caddy has a ridiculous exhaust and addons, but even a vette has some. Its highly likely that the 270 HP bare engine and the 190 HP car are the same.
Another complication is HP = torque * RPM I had a commuter car in the 80s with a 2.2L engine that on paper only output 100 HP because its redline was something ridiculous to modern standards like 4000 rpm however the torque (acceleration) was huge compared to my current 100 HP commuter car that winds up like a motorcycle to 8000 RPM or whatever it is. My current car has the acceleration of a 50 HP car but the redline has doubled, so...
So it was not unusual at all for something like a caddy to go from 400 gross HP with no exhaust no water pump no cooling system nothing to 250 HP pushed out the wheels.
Now a caddy has a ridiculous exhaust and addons, but even a vette has some. Its highly likely that the 270 HP bare engine and the 190 HP car are the same.
Another complication is HP = torque * RPM I had a commuter car in the 80s with a 2.2L engine that on paper only output 100 HP because its redline was something ridiculous to modern standards like 4000 rpm however the torque (acceleration) was huge compared to my current 100 HP commuter car that winds up like a motorcycle to 8000 RPM or whatever it is. My current car has the acceleration of a 50 HP car but the redline has doubled, so...
It's not wheel HP. But it's crank HP with a more realistic engine setup than pre-72's dyno testing.
Yeah, that's fair. And not much computation available for design work.
Still, cars now are amazing. I mean, you could pick up a $60k 700hp mass produced monster this year. I can't think of the last time i've heard of a tire failing. Stuff is made by machines, they're unbelievably reliable. You should easily get 100k out of any new car.
Still, cars now are amazing. I mean, you could pick up a $60k 700hp mass produced monster this year. I can't think of the last time i've heard of a tire failing. Stuff is made by machines, they're unbelievably reliable. You should easily get 100k out of any new car.
Modern sports cars are truly amazing. I have a C6 corvette and it's both a monster on the track and comfortable enough to run coast-to-coast with ease (something I've done twice now). The technology just keeps getting better and better. Throw in 28 mpg on the highway, and it's just silly.
What I find interesting is that some of the most amazing engines are actually produced by tiny companies e.g. the 500hp 3L V8 designed by Atom:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Atom#Ariel_Atom_500
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Atom#Ariel_Atom_500
I just saw an Atom drive by the other day - the driver looked happy, ha ha.
Ford/Firestone did a massive tire recall just a few years ago, Ford reduced their recommended inflation pressure instead of softening the suspension and the tire tread would separate, often resulting in the vehicle flipping.
Your definition of a few does not jibe with mine: that was almost 20 years ago.
It was 2001:
http://www.nhtsa.gov/PR/FirestoneRecall
edit: I guess my meaning with 'a few' was that it was recent enough to be in the "modern" era of vehicle technology.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/PR/FirestoneRecall
edit: I guess my meaning with 'a few' was that it was recent enough to be in the "modern" era of vehicle technology.
1972 marked the change from Gross HP to Net HP ratings.
Before the change, they would test the engines with no accessory drive, not even a water pump, use headers instead of a full exhaust, and adjust the carburetor/ignition to provide the best numbers per RPM on the dyno instead of reflecting what the engine actually did in the car.
Before the change, they would test the engines with no accessory drive, not even a water pump, use headers instead of a full exhaust, and adjust the carburetor/ignition to provide the best numbers per RPM on the dyno instead of reflecting what the engine actually did in the car.
Also bear in mind that the De Lorean coupé started life as the De Lorean Safety Vehicle ( DSV ) , which was meant to combine perceived sportiness and safety in one package; it wasn't primarily about performance.
Mr D L successfully persuaded the Allstate Insurance Company to part-fund the two DSV prototypes on account of the safety emphasis.
Mr D L successfully persuaded the Allstate Insurance Company to part-fund the two DSV prototypes on account of the safety emphasis.
Now see how that VW worked that out with their diesel trick.
Also keep in mind the Peugeot sourced 2.8 V-6 was not the first choice or the choice of aspiration DeLorean had intended to either turbo charge the Peugeot engine or use another engine type that would also have forced induction. From what I understand, either the other supplier found out his plans and pulled out, or Peugeot threatened to pull out if their engine was turbocharged. I am looking for the reference, and will update when I find it.
I did a double take at that too - a 130 horsepower V6 seems like a typo when read with our modern eyes!! The last thirty years have been very good for engines...
HP = Hyper Power
I wouldn't mind seeing more cars with brushed metal exteriors. The doors I can skip.
A few years before that, I went to the FedEx office at the St. Louis airport to pick up a package. While waiting in line, I overheard a guy talking about how he was a driver for a new car company and was taking it around the country to show potential dealers to get them to sign up to sell it. I struck up a conversation with him and he invited me to come out and see this new, different type of car and, there it was, one of the first minted DeLoreans.
Besides the obvious visual "wow" factor associated with the car and the Back to the Future franchise, they're surprisingly inexpensive for such an iconic car. The main problem with them is that Delorean Motor Company didn't really follow the concept of "model years," instead changing things as they went along, so restoring one to original condition is practically impossible. I was also not a fan of the aluminum engine block, since, if it ever got just slightly too hot, there's a good chance it would be ruined forever.
My second choice vehicle, BTW, would have been some kind of van painted up like the Scooby Doo Mystery Machine. :)