Ask YC: Moving to SF, need advice
31 comments
I am 28, married, and live in the Park Merced complex in the south-west corner of SF. It is about as suburbs as you get in SF, but also is right next to SF State so there is a young vibe if you want. I pay ~1300 for a 1br, parking included, lots of street parking too...walking distance to Muni and the mall, lots of green space around.
The schools in SF Unified are terrible. Your best best for public school is to send your kid to Chinatown--they will be in with the academically oriented Chinese crowd, and as a bonus learn Mandarin. Sounds weird but lots of people do it. Then for high school you send your kid to Lowell, a top public school, or maybe Washington, or else you go private.
The schools in SF Unified are terrible. Your best best for public school is to send your kid to Chinatown--they will be in with the academically oriented Chinese crowd, and as a bonus learn Mandarin. Sounds weird but lots of people do it. Then for high school you send your kid to Lowell, a top public school, or maybe Washington, or else you go private.
If you're going to relocate to SF, want a flat, and are hoping to keep costs down, I'd recommend Glen Park, Sunnyside, Mission Terrace. They're not highly young neighborhoods like the marina (young and preppy) or mission (young and bohemian), but still pretty fun. The great advantage to them is 1) you're near the Glen Park Bart station, and 2) they're south of most of the city traffic, so you can hit 280 or 101 and get to silicon valley fairly quickly.
I listed them in order of desirability. Glen Park is pleasant, and has a small village with good restaurants and a good vibe. Now and then people get mugged coming out of the bart station, which really sucks, but I walked home from it for a year and a half, no problems whatsoever. Sunnyside is a bit more boring, and not quite as nice. Mission Terrace, where I live now, is just a bit edgy. I love it, but you'll be a stone's throw from some blight. You might also want to check out bernal heights (nicknamed "maternal heights" because of all the young families that thundered in when rents/prices got too high elsewhere).
I listed them in order of desirability. Glen Park is pleasant, and has a small village with good restaurants and a good vibe. Now and then people get mugged coming out of the bart station, which really sucks, but I walked home from it for a year and a half, no problems whatsoever. Sunnyside is a bit more boring, and not quite as nice. Mission Terrace, where I live now, is just a bit edgy. I love it, but you'll be a stone's throw from some blight. You might also want to check out bernal heights (nicknamed "maternal heights" because of all the young families that thundered in when rents/prices got too high elsewhere).
If you get a chance, you might want to check out the Rockridge neighborhood in the East Bay. It's on the border of Oakland and Berkeley, very nice places, cool walking, shops, and stores like Trader Joe's, Whole Wallet, etc. There is a BART station there that will take you to the city, and people are out and about a lot. I live there with my wife and 3 boys. I also lived 12 years in LA near Manhattan Beach, and the main difference is that you don't really need a car in Rockridge, whereas in LA it was a necessity.
Some other interesting areas in SF are Potrero Hill and Bernal Heights. Our startup is in Potrero Hill and there are lots of good restaurants around, plenty of parking, and nice steep hills. Bernal has a bit more of a parking challenge and isn't really close to public transport, though it does have a pretty cool strip and it's close to the Mission for good food.
Hope this helps - if you want more details, just let me know at secorp at gmail dot com.
Some other interesting areas in SF are Potrero Hill and Bernal Heights. Our startup is in Potrero Hill and there are lots of good restaurants around, plenty of parking, and nice steep hills. Bernal has a bit more of a parking challenge and isn't really close to public transport, though it does have a pretty cool strip and it's close to the Mission for good food.
Hope this helps - if you want more details, just let me know at secorp at gmail dot com.
Thanks, I was also considering Rockridge, but it seems to me to far from Silicon Valley. Speaking about Potrero Hill - it's nice, but too expensive. I'd like not to pay more then $1,800-2,000 for 2 beds - I can't do more unless my startup is going great. So that's why I'm circling away the SF from the list. ;)
Ah, didn't realize you needed to be that close to Silicon Valley. Some other people have mentioned downtown Mountain View around Castro Street (try Dana Street Cafe) which is pretty cool and close to a lot of software and hardware shops. There are some nice places in downtown Palo Alto but I don't know the prices there anymore. Back up near SF you may want to look at the Mission district, specifically between Valencia and Dolores south of 16th Street. It's a transitional neighborhood, great food, lots of walking distance small shops, but you may find your car broken into if you leave anything inside.
We are paying $3000/month for a nice old 3bdrm Craftsman in Rockridge that is about 5min walking from the BART station and about 2min from the College Ave strip.
We are paying $3000/month for a nice old 3bdrm Craftsman in Rockridge that is about 5min walking from the BART station and about 2min from the College Ave strip.
I recently moved to Silicon Valley from Los Angeles after living there for 5 years for college + grad school. The thing that frustrated me most was that even though I lived in the heart of downtown LA, the nightlife was pretty pathetic. So I know what you mean.
I also grew up right between the Emeryville/Berkeley/Oakland area and the Walnut Creek area... Orinda. We sometimes called it Borinda. I suppose it's a nice place to raise a family, and they have excellent public schools, but if you "hate when place is going sleep at 9pm" don't live there.
Emeryville and Walnut Creek are probably somewhat better. Both are about an hour from Silicon Valley (Walnut Creek is not any further) and an hour from SF.
And yeah, ff you're going to live in Silicon Valley I'd go for Palo Alto or Mountain View... that seems to be where all the young people are.
The one place in the Bay Area I haven't lived in is SF, which I think would be awesome, but pretty expensive.
I also grew up right between the Emeryville/Berkeley/Oakland area and the Walnut Creek area... Orinda. We sometimes called it Borinda. I suppose it's a nice place to raise a family, and they have excellent public schools, but if you "hate when place is going sleep at 9pm" don't live there.
Emeryville and Walnut Creek are probably somewhat better. Both are about an hour from Silicon Valley (Walnut Creek is not any further) and an hour from SF.
And yeah, ff you're going to live in Silicon Valley I'd go for Palo Alto or Mountain View... that seems to be where all the young people are.
The one place in the Bay Area I haven't lived in is SF, which I think would be awesome, but pretty expensive.
I lived in Emeryville for a year before heading out to Boston for YC. Now I'm back in SF living downtown.
I think Emeryville would be a grand spot to raise a family, but it's definitely the most "LA-like" part of the bay area. Meaning it's a car town, not like SF or Berkeley.
That said, you should still consider the Watergate apartment complex in Emeryville. It's quiet, safe, right on the water next to the bike paths, has pools and spas, and a free shuttle to BART. Pretty affordable too (about $1800 for a 2br or $1000 for 1). It's also right next to the bay bridge for easy car access to the city and 10 walking minutes from trader joes.
Good luck!
I think Emeryville would be a grand spot to raise a family, but it's definitely the most "LA-like" part of the bay area. Meaning it's a car town, not like SF or Berkeley.
That said, you should still consider the Watergate apartment complex in Emeryville. It's quiet, safe, right on the water next to the bike paths, has pools and spas, and a free shuttle to BART. Pretty affordable too (about $1800 for a 2br or $1000 for 1). It's also right next to the bay bridge for easy car access to the city and 10 walking minutes from trader joes.
Good luck!
haha.... nice try. My friend just rented a studio for 1250 there, and one bedrooms are 1450, and two bedrooms are 2100+. THere is a new rental building next to it (bre avenue 64) very nice, but even more expensive. And this is frickin emeryville. Rents have definitely gone thru the roof.
If you're looking in the Valley, you're going to have to go to Palo Alto or Mountain View by Castro Street, where there are some nice apartments
http://www.prometheusreg.com/residential/ppl/pplDesc.html
though I can't remember what the rent was. I want to say it was $2kish for a 2br, but it's been a while so I could be wrong.
Walnut Creek is nice (was just looking at houses there this past weekend) but very suburban.
Walnut Creek is nice (was just looking at houses there this past weekend) but very suburban.
Regarding housing... Daly City is foggy and very multicultural, South San Francisco has easy access to Bart Stations, family neighborhoods, sunshine, here's a link to the area... keep around Chestnut / follow Grand Ave..small little main street town. http://tinyurl.com/2l6oww
In San Francisco, the Sunset and Richmond districts might suit you. They're (relatively) affordable, popular with middle-class families, and a nice blend of residential and commercial.
Sunset is good, you just have to get a place next to Muni so you can get around without having to drive all the time.
Of all those, Palo Alto is my favorite. But like you said, it's pretty expensive in the downtown area.
Oakland always feels dirty to me, and most of Berkeley isn't that great, either.
Oakland always feels dirty to me, and most of Berkeley isn't that great, either.
Where are you going to be working? If you are working in or near san francisco, berkeley is fine. If you are working in the valley, the commute is going to suck.
I second Berkeley - Quick access to Bart from the Telegraph / Ashby areas - The neighborhoods can change rather quickly from block to block though - I recommend somewhere near the gourmet ghetto
I think I will have a home office for some time. I want to spend the most of my time for my startup and doing some remote job over the Internet.
I live in Cole Valley, which is quiet and quaint and right next to Golden Gate Park. I highly recommend it, but good luck finding an affordable 2 bedroom apartment.
I moved away from LA 3-4 years ago to Silicon Valley, with a horrid little stint in Fresno that I really rather not talk about.
We chose San Jose to live in, just because it was cheaper than most places further up the peninsula. We live in a villag-y part of San Jose, but that' on purpose. I've done the "big city" thing after living in Chicago for 7 years, but I'm all done with that. We go up to the City from time to time, just to remember what it was like--the smell of urine and vomit on public transportation, the fear... Yeah. I'm all done with that. But then, I'm married now and in my 30's. YMMV.
In the South Bay cities: Santa Clara, Sunnyvale, Mountain View, San Jose. Crime is usually higher north of the 101, and goes down the further south and west (towards the mountains) you get. But then again, it's Silicon Valley. Crime really isn't that big of an issue unless you're in East San Jose, Oakland or East Palo Alto. There really isn't an area like South Central up here, so I wouldn't worry about it that much. It generally feels a lot safer than So. Cal up here.
Regarding your question: Most cities on the Peninsula are village like, and most of them close down around 9pm. It's a commuter town, and pretty much everybody works 9-5. But, each one usually has a downtown area that gets some foot traffic, but not much. Rents are usually highest in Palo Alto and San Fran, and go down the further away you get from those areas. The cities that have colleges tend to stay open later than the other one's so your options for late night eateries are a bit better there. Those cities are: Palo Alto, San Fran, Berkeley and (downtown) San Jose.
Palo Alto has been getting quite a bit more expensive from what I hear because Facebook is there and is subsidizing rent for people who live close and walk to work. So, the "hip" part of Palo Alto is pretty pricey.
I actually like downtown San Jose, and even though it's less sexy than San Fransisco, it's got a lot going for it. It has a bar scene that stays open late. A couple of tall buildings, so you feel like you're in a downtown. It's rather multi-cult-y so that's nice. And, there's a large condo building or two downtown, so you're seeing a bit more foot traffic after hours. And, there's a couple of neighborhoods around down-town that have some beautiful old craftsman homes that can be rented for pretty reasonable considering the area. San Jose has the light rail, which is surprisingly convenient. You can carry a bike on the light rail, so that helps make up for the lack of coverage. It's not like the public transportation that I was used to in Chicago, but it's actually passable.
Over all, I love the Bay Area. I really think that you'll be happier here; it's really all about the people. They just seem genuinely happier here than they were in LA. So... welcome to the Bay Area.
We chose San Jose to live in, just because it was cheaper than most places further up the peninsula. We live in a villag-y part of San Jose, but that' on purpose. I've done the "big city" thing after living in Chicago for 7 years, but I'm all done with that. We go up to the City from time to time, just to remember what it was like--the smell of urine and vomit on public transportation, the fear... Yeah. I'm all done with that. But then, I'm married now and in my 30's. YMMV.
In the South Bay cities: Santa Clara, Sunnyvale, Mountain View, San Jose. Crime is usually higher north of the 101, and goes down the further south and west (towards the mountains) you get. But then again, it's Silicon Valley. Crime really isn't that big of an issue unless you're in East San Jose, Oakland or East Palo Alto. There really isn't an area like South Central up here, so I wouldn't worry about it that much. It generally feels a lot safer than So. Cal up here.
Regarding your question: Most cities on the Peninsula are village like, and most of them close down around 9pm. It's a commuter town, and pretty much everybody works 9-5. But, each one usually has a downtown area that gets some foot traffic, but not much. Rents are usually highest in Palo Alto and San Fran, and go down the further away you get from those areas. The cities that have colleges tend to stay open later than the other one's so your options for late night eateries are a bit better there. Those cities are: Palo Alto, San Fran, Berkeley and (downtown) San Jose.
Palo Alto has been getting quite a bit more expensive from what I hear because Facebook is there and is subsidizing rent for people who live close and walk to work. So, the "hip" part of Palo Alto is pretty pricey.
I actually like downtown San Jose, and even though it's less sexy than San Fransisco, it's got a lot going for it. It has a bar scene that stays open late. A couple of tall buildings, so you feel like you're in a downtown. It's rather multi-cult-y so that's nice. And, there's a large condo building or two downtown, so you're seeing a bit more foot traffic after hours. And, there's a couple of neighborhoods around down-town that have some beautiful old craftsman homes that can be rented for pretty reasonable considering the area. San Jose has the light rail, which is surprisingly convenient. You can carry a bike on the light rail, so that helps make up for the lack of coverage. It's not like the public transportation that I was used to in Chicago, but it's actually passable.
Over all, I love the Bay Area. I really think that you'll be happier here; it's really all about the people. They just seem genuinely happier here than they were in LA. So... welcome to the Bay Area.
As someone has suggested before -- this should be a 'sticky' thread, since it keeps reappearing in slightly varied forms.
I dont live there, but I was just there and Burlingame/Millbrae seems good.
It really depends on how much money you have. The Burlingame, San Carlos, San Mateo corridor is nice; consider renting (in this market, at least). Access to the stores you're talking about but about 15-20 mins from The City and with enough culture to tide you over. Within reach of 280, which is a better way to go south than 101.
A few other FYI tips, just for fun:
- people up here don't use 'the' in front of freeway names the way you do in LA. It's not "the 101", it's just "101". No harm in using "the" but you'll tag yourself as an ex-LA guy immediately.
- it's pronounced "sanno-ZAY", despite the proper spanish pronunciation.
- you say "Santa Cruz" the way you say "Santa Claus". Emphasis on the Santa.
- "Concord" rhymes with "conquered", rather than "con-CHORD".
- If you don't want to sound like a newb, don't call San Francisco "Frisco" or "San Fran". Locals routinely call it "The City", or sometimes "SF". No one will think you're talking about San Jose or Oakland.
It's more outdoorsy up here (despite LA's surfing/skating reputation). Marin and the East Bay (hey, that's Pig Latin for "beast"!) have huge regional parks. Mountain biking was invented here (in Marin, north of the GG bridge). So was cafe culture (in SF).
Go to Pier 39 once. Locals don't go there. (Hell, I've never been to Alcatraz, and I've lived in NorCal my whole life.) Cool, insider neighborhoods in The City are Potrero Hill, Noe Valley, Cole Valley, among others. SOMA is still dicey, however hip its reputation.
A few other FYI tips, just for fun:
- people up here don't use 'the' in front of freeway names the way you do in LA. It's not "the 101", it's just "101". No harm in using "the" but you'll tag yourself as an ex-LA guy immediately.
- it's pronounced "sanno-ZAY", despite the proper spanish pronunciation.
- you say "Santa Cruz" the way you say "Santa Claus". Emphasis on the Santa.
- "Concord" rhymes with "conquered", rather than "con-CHORD".
- If you don't want to sound like a newb, don't call San Francisco "Frisco" or "San Fran". Locals routinely call it "The City", or sometimes "SF". No one will think you're talking about San Jose or Oakland.
It's more outdoorsy up here (despite LA's surfing/skating reputation). Marin and the East Bay (hey, that's Pig Latin for "beast"!) have huge regional parks. Mountain biking was invented here (in Marin, north of the GG bridge). So was cafe culture (in SF).
Go to Pier 39 once. Locals don't go there. (Hell, I've never been to Alcatraz, and I've lived in NorCal my whole life.) Cool, insider neighborhoods in The City are Potrero Hill, Noe Valley, Cole Valley, among others. SOMA is still dicey, however hip its reputation.
I'm just moving here, too. I actually spent the last week walking around looking for a place to live. Potrero, Noe, and Cole are all way gentrified, good places to pick up some $5 mineral water from a corner grocer.
What about Soma or the Mission?
The thing about those areas is that the feel changes from block to block. Soma felt a little sparse/rough to me, but there were definitely good pockets. I've got my fingers crossed that I'll be able to get into a place in the Mission, just southwest of 19th and Valencia.
Also: avoid citiapartments if at all possible. They're trying to run up prices for rathole apartments, and they are complete assholes about the whole process. I made the mistake of looking at several of their places on the first day I was out, and they were trying to tell me things like "out-of-state renters usually get passed over on the better deals and have to pay a premium" and "you have to jump on one of the first places you see, because everything gets snapped up in the first few hours of being open for showing".
Also: avoid citiapartments if at all possible. They're trying to run up prices for rathole apartments, and they are complete assholes about the whole process. I made the mistake of looking at several of their places on the first day I was out, and they were trying to tell me things like "out-of-state renters usually get passed over on the better deals and have to pay a premium" and "you have to jump on one of the first places you see, because everything gets snapped up in the first few hours of being open for showing".
Sure they are. If you're relatively young (mid-20s) then you might not mind living someplace cooler. Problem is that crime tends to go along with coolness; after a while, you actually appreciated mild gentrification. Believe me, Potrero Hill ain't the 'burbs. A little mineral water isn't the worst thing in the world. At least it's not the ghetto anymore.
Nothing worse than people who drive for a few feets.
I'm considering to move to SF Bay area from LA for my startup. I'm looking for 2br nice apartments, I have a wife and little son. I hope to get as inexpensive as possible, but I don't want to live in ghetto. I want to have people around, be close to the city. I hate when place is going sleep at 9pm, I want to see people on the streets as much as possible - I'm so tired of LA area, it's so rarely you can see live people around, everyone is driving, even for a few feets. I would like to have major stores, like Safeway, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, whatever is else of this kind close by. It'd be great to have a nice parks and rest areas close. I'm 28, my wife is 25, I would be happy to have young people around. ;) Would you recommend me something? Do you have an idea of rental property prices?
I'm considering Emeryville, the Oakland's part which is close to it, and Berkeley, preferably downtown. I know that some part of Oakland is really bad, I don't want to go there. I want to keep my family safe.
I was also thinking about Walnut Creek area, but it seems to me too far from Silicon Valley, and I think I am going to spend a lot of time there. Besides, it seems to me too village-styled.
I don't know anything about Silicon Valley's places. I've been in San Jose downtown only (well, it's nice, but looks like to be too far from the city), Mountain View (old good village, sorry), and Palo Alto and Stanford. I didn't see the downtown. I heard it's very fun because of a lot of students around, but it's also very expensive, because of Facebook. ;)
Are there any LA movers here, who can give their review of the life style comparing to LA?
Thanks!